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Stanlee

Make low QL foods more filling

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Meet Snot Von Snotsberg. The first of his clan, he's come to Xanadu to stake out a life of his own.

960ce066d4bcaaa162716b653e54b7eb.jpg

 

Like many newbies before him, videogames have taught him that running out of food on your food bar results in death. However misguided he may be, he certainly does enjoy having stamina. Here he is butchering something the guards brought him.

 

The lucky dog managed to get a piece of meat above QL30 from that wolf! With a carving knife! Go him!

 

After inquiring in CA HELP how to avoid food poisoning (how sweet!) he's informed to use his newbie bowl (which I swear was above QL2) to make a breakfast. And after whittling out that he can't use berries, a campfire is started.

 

e6a047e782398717c9b7fb3eb594da7d.png

 

[18:50:16] You think this may well work when cooked.
[18:50:16] Current difficulty:30.

 

What a wonderfully easy breakfast. Once it's cooked, it's QL1.8, weighing in at .9. So, he eats up. And his food bar climbs from 33, all the way to 35 by the time he's finished eating.

 

Oh.

 

Thankfully, he's saved by the canine meat, which does get him all the way to 77 food. Had he not been so fortunate to butcher such meat, when he was averaging around QL10, he'd have been stuck not getting food as fast as he was draining it. Which is a little terrible.

 

The issue appears to be caused by the food code, which is not easily posted here as it's a good few lines, being handled almost entirely by multipliers; so when it gets fed some small numbers like QL2, without an addition to save it, the foods restore very little.

 

The suggestion is thus: put in a small addition to cushion low QL foods in their restoring of food. CCFP doesn't need it.

If QL-scaling is decreased to compensate, be careful that this may unintentionally nerf Opulence, if I'm reading the code right.

 

Alternately, make certain foods (breakfast, cooked meat, raw meat?) better at restoring food, but worse at restoring CCFP.

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+1  I just fired up my old GV alt and realized I was "skin and bones"  I find most of my time spent is just foraging and eating.  Can barely keep my nutrition to half way.  I use up what I eat while foraging for more...

 

As a brand new player, you have something like 7 stages of fasting to help you pull through, plus random sacrifices of rares, or the nice player to provide a refresh.  Without those advantages, it is a constant struggle to stay fed.  As a result, I've determined the best possible use of my time is going to be making a rug and meditation on PoL, to earn the refresh.  Then once a day, I can recover my fatness and ignore food completely.

 

I strongly feel eating 20kg of food a day is a bit overkill.  I know we are dealing with Wogic on this, but the quantity should fill the bar equally at 1ql or 100ql.  QL should only determine the nutrition and effects of ccfp and affinity timers.  Seriously, who eats 20kg of food and still feels hungry?

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-1

 

I'm sorry Stanlee but part of the reason you got such low ql is the difficulty of what you're cooking is high for you[30].  I think a reason for that is the ingredients.

 

Speaking of which, 1 corn and 1 potato isn't much to work with and doesn't seem terribly indicative of a whole lot of foraging and botanizing.  Any new toon I've ever started is foraging and botanizing a LOT in the beginning.  I wind up stuffing my face with raw materials if need be at times.  Other times I have to play with ingredients a bit to lower the difficulty as best I can, or cook small amounts many many times to feed myself and in turn raise my cooking skill to where the difficulty can slowly rise.

 

In fairness, I have not started a new toon since the cooking update, so if something in that made it much more difficult... ok, then sure let's look at it.  However, difficulty is part of the game imho.

 

First question I would ask myself is, what's the lowest difficulty breakfast I can put together?

 

As for people wanting to refresh and ignore food completely... by all means, knock yourself out.  That isn't a reason to nerf how food works though, any more than my low fight skill is any reason to nerf trolls.

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25 minutes ago, Reylaark said:

I'm sorry Stanlee but part of the reason you got such low ql is the difficulty of what you're cooking is high for you[30].  I think a reason for that is the ingredients.

 

a7e044009de291d8f5c8e903cc38752f.png

Minimum difficulty breakfast, supported by WU code. (15 base, 5 per ingredient (no ingredients add a different amount), 0 from campfire, becomes 20 difficulty). This toon cheated a little, he has 7HFC, and it came out at QL7.75, which restored almost 3% food at that weight.

 

I selected breakfast because it's one of the few meals available without crafting the cookers and containers.

 

Myth busted.

 

32 minutes ago, Reylaark said:

1 corn and 1 potato isn't much to work with and doesn't seem terribly indicative of a whole lot of foraging and botanizing.

 

Here's the thing; the code doesn't seem to actually differentiate between prepared meals or not in the feed code. So all it cares about is raw QL, and things like rarity. This toon's been averaging QL4 foraging, and that's with 4 skill, so foraging isn't good for food either, since a nice QL10 pumpkin (1kg) is still a payday of about 7% food, if that.

 

Myth busted.

 

Though, really, your own words are the best destruction of your own points presented.

35 minutes ago, Reylaark said:

I have not started a new toon since the cooking update

 

Also this is far from a nerf from cooking. As someone with 100HFC, who regularly makes QL99.05 meals, the feeding part could stand to be a tad faster. Also, there's no way someone with low skills is doing CCFP or affinity.

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1 hour ago, Stanlee said:

 

 

a7e044009de291d8f5c8e903cc38752f.png

Minimum difficulty breakfast, supported by WU code. (15 base, 5 per ingredient (no ingredients add a different amount), 0 from campfire, becomes 20 difficulty). This toon cheated a little, he has 7HFC, and it came out at QL7.75, which restored almost 3% food at that weight.

 

I selected breakfast because it's one of the few meals available without crafting the cookers and containers.

 

Myth busted.

Confirmed on the 20 spending 2 minutes in game, though pouring through the code must be fun as well.  Tried a few different ingredients, not terribly scientific, but good enough.

 

There is no myth busted here, though the drama effect is nice I guess.

Your OP lists a "current difficulty" of 30.  Last I checked, 20 < 30, therefore lowest ql difficulty breakfast you could make was indeed lower than what you listed, which is what I was suggesting you question.  Well done.

A toon with HFC 7 is not cheating in any way, it's called playing the game.  Well done.

 

Apologies there's leveling involved, I'm sure you can see that in the code.

Myth busted?  Nah, course not.  Play a while, raise your HFC, you'll live.

 

Quote

 

 

Here's the thing; the code doesn't seem to actually differentiate between prepared meals or not in the feed code. So all it cares about is raw QL, and things like rarity. This toon's been averaging QL4 foraging, and that's with 4 skill, so foraging isn't good for food either, since a nice QL10 pumpkin (1kg) is still a payday of about 7% food, if that.

 

Myth busted.

Again, A+ for drama, but there's no myth here.  You might need to forage and botanize a lot to get what you need to feed yourself.

 

Again, apologies it's not quite as simple as forage->cook->done.

As for prepared meals vs. not... are you saying there's no advantage to eating raw vs. cooked meal?

You're reading the code so you tell me, or just play the game, up to you, but if that's true then forage, botanize and eat.  You may have to do that a few times.  Sorry.

 

Quote

 

Though, really, your own words are the best destruction of your own points presented.

Whewie!  Destruction of my points!  Destruction!  .... yarr?

 

Yeah, -1.  Raise your cooking.

Edited by Reylaark
ql/difficulty, whatevs, raise your cooking.

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+1 to something that makes starting noob life easier without any possible harm at all

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1 hour ago, MrGARY said:

+1 to something that makes starting noob life easier without any possible harm at all

 

Absolutely seconded. +1 from me!

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Im neutral on this. Some people forget many of the true starter foods out there... Things like stews and putting a pig on a spit (branch + pig over a campfire). A whole unbutchered pig gives about 6kg of food and takes basicly no preparation. Stews and caseroles are ridiculously low difficulty as well. Sure you wont have 100% nutrition, but thats the point. If you are forced to constantly feed yourself, your skill will improve. At 15 hfc you can reliably feed yourself, and thats super easy to get.

 

On the other hand, I am all for new players getting a bit of an easier time. No argument there.

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14 hours ago, MrGARY said:

+1 to something that makes starting noob life easier without any possible harm at all

 

12 hours ago, Joelle said:

 

Absolutely seconded. +1 from me!

 

Yes, which is why we get a really good longsword now instead of the 10ql shortsword, correct?  Leather armor rather than no armor at all.  Certainly more tools than when any of us started.  A tent!  A rope I think?

 

My question is, why is it ok to just automatically water down cooking?  It would be helpful if they could chop up higher ql logs too.  Higher ql ore?  Yup, that would make it easier on noobs.  Should we add a base ql booster to those?  There's no harm.  How bout fight skill?  A noob's life is really hampered by it, and for a long time as well, we should really just give everyone a higher fight skill from the start.

 

Probably not, right?  Those skills matter to you and I'm guessing you'd simply say, "raising those skills to a usable state is part of the game."  Wouldn't you?

 

But the red-headed stepchild that is the cooking update seems to always have people wanting to throw it under the bus.  Foraging and botanizing were changed to reflect skill level when harvesting right along with the cooking update.  Presumably, there was an associated reason?

 

If the lowest difficulty thing that can be made with a pottery bowl is difficulty 20, which seems to be right, then perhaps we should be looking there.

Wurmpedia notes that at HFC 1, people should be looking to cook things with a difficulty at or below 11:

If that's not possible with the given pottery bowl, why not start there rather than automatically say, "f it, just f cooking."

 

How bout starting people with cooking utensils?  Chopping up veggies is a difficulty of +5, right?  Doesn't require making changes to cooking itself, and puts the solution in the player's hands for them to work on.  Certainly more in line with past help given to new players.

 

Another change, one of the OP's so called myths, was that different ingredients had different difficulties associated with them.  Think there was even one that had a -5 difficulty, though never recall which one it was.

That gave more options when playing around with difficulty numbers.

Now everything adds a difficulty of +5, apparently.  Surely that was done because it's just too hard! so now it's simple, right?

Grats.  Over-simplification actually made new player life more difficult, so now of course we just add a base ql boost?

 

 

I'm all for revisiting a mechanic if something proves problematic.  Simplistic short-sighted solutions such as "pfft, just make every ingredient +5 in case a player doesn't like having to think a minute," really aren't going to lead anywhere good.  Plenty of solutions to be considered before saying, "what else can we try to chip away at this cooking thing?"

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5 hours ago, Reylaark said:

"f it, just f cooking."

 

Are you able to (CCFP) think of any advantages (nutrition) to cooking that this (alcohol difficulty) suggestion doesn't even touch? (affinities)

 

5 hours ago, Reylaark said:

Another change, one of the OP's so called myths, was that different ingredients had different difficulties associated with them.  Think there was even one that had a -5 difficulty, though never recall which one it was.

That gave more options when playing around with difficulty numbers.

Now everything adds a difficulty of +5, apparently.  Surely that was done because it's just too hard! so now it's simple, right?

 

"was that different ingredients had different difficulties associated with them" - This was not true in the past, and is true now, but not true for breakfast

Take for example Salads, in which every ingredient adds 3 difficulty (requires a plate, knife and lettuce for a newbie to make, and has a base difficulty of 15, so it's still not a good option for newbies before you go there)

And for non-uniform, let's take the Dagwood, which gets 2 difficulty from fries, and 5 from meat. (again, base difficulty 30)

 

"Think there was even one that had a -5 difficulty"

3d35905e7405485385f9de1fa9e2370a.png regarding current recipes.

No evidence of such existing in old recipes.

 

So your final line doesn't even follow.

 

5 hours ago, Reylaark said:

why is it ok to just automatically water down cooking?  It would be helpful if they could chop up higher ql logs too.  Higher ql ore?  Yup, that would make it easier on noobs.  Should we add a base ql booster to those?  There's no harm.  How bout fight skill?  A noob's life is really hampered by it, and for a long time as well, we should really just give everyone a higher fight skill from the start.

 

Your logical fallacy is Slippery Slope.

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reylaark dude its literally just making crap food fill more it's not a game changer it's not gonna devalue the double bacon cheese burger deluxe with a twin xlarge fries

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It wouldn't even touch nutrition, just fill up food at crap nutrition so the bar doesn't go up 2% each time.

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From my experience with an alt a few weeks back, the best way for a new toon to feed itself is to ignore the CA help, avoid hitting the lore button and only stick to the recipes they get by default in the recipe book. They are the only ones with low enough difficulty to start raising cooking skills and get some better ql food.

 

And this is a problem. It adds lots of unnecessary frustration on new players. If you think about it, after the cooking update, cooking is one of the most complex systems in game. It is wrong to throw new players on it, completely unguided. It simply drives them away. The new tutorial must address the issue in detail.

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Kill a pig, stick a branch through it, light a campfire, and put it on a spit. Has anyone here tried that?

Works with sheep.

Works with Ram.

Works with Giant Rat.

 

It gives you a lot of food, about 6kg as I mentioned before, which will at least fill about 20-30% of nutrition at 1ql. Thats considering the player has never cooked anyting before. If the newbie forages and makes at least 10~ breakfasts, he'd end up with about 4-5 cooking skill. That puts you at the 15% minimum to cook anything achievable, and allows you to make some decent pig on a spit for even better results.

 

There are solutions out there. The issue is not the new player not being able to feed themselves, but of us not giving them proper advice. 15m of foraging should be enough to bump your skill to about level 5 alone. If a new player cant take 15 minutes to forage and prepare for what awaits them in the new game, they are not going to last anyways. 30 min just to sail can be quite gruesome for someone with that mentality.

 

Like I said before, there is nothing wrong with wanting to help new people get ready for the world of wurm, but the system is not broken, and thus requires no fix. Eating raw meat is completely fine too. I have done it many times. It scews your nutrition, sure, but no one should expect to be able to make Chef Special Dishes with Cooking 1 skill. 

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20 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Kill a pig, stick a branch through it, light a campfire, and put it on a spit. Has anyone here tried that?

Works with sheep.

Works with Ram.

Works with Giant Rat.

 

It gives you a lot of food, about 6kg as I mentioned before, which will at least fill about 20-30% of nutrition at 1ql. Thats considering the player has never cooked anyting before. If the newbie forages and makes at least 10~ breakfasts, he'd end up with about 4-5 cooking skill. That puts you at the 15% minimum to cook anything achievable, and allows you to make some decent pig on a spit for even better results.

 

From CA Help literally just now:

 

[18:05:10] <New Player> (Xan) as a new player what should i make to eat, we tried making a lot of stuff but it doesnt seem to add much to our food, eating cooked meat so far is the best
[18:06:50] <Joelle> Personally, I'd try roasting a pig over a campfire.
[18:07:39] <New Player> (Xan) we roasted a pig and the whole 7 weight only added like 5% food to our bar

 

So much for that theory, eh?

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8 hours ago, Stanlee said:

 

Are you able to (CCFP) think of any advantages (nutrition) to cooking that this (alcohol difficulty) suggestion doesn't even touch? (affinities)

8 hours ago, MrGARY said:

reylaark dude its literally just making crap food fill more it's not a game changer it's not gonna devalue the double bacon cheese burger deluxe with a twin xlarge fries

 

Ok Ok, I get protective of cooking.  Sometimes feels like there's been barbarians at the gate since they released the update.  Pretty determined folks at that.

 

Still contend the proposed solution is the wrong way to go about it.  I would rather give new players more opportunity to help themselves.

 

Utensils is one idea.

Pottery bowl is kind of from the old system as the basic handout.  Maybe that doesn't quite fit anymore.  Or, maybe remove the base difficulty of breakfast, so lowest would be 5, then 10, 15, etc.

 

I'd rather put it in the player's hands to skill up, just as with everything else in Wurm.

 

8 hours ago, Stanlee said:

 

"was that different ingredients had different difficulties associated with them" - This was not true in the past, and is true now, but not true for breakfast

K.  Glad to hear it isn't just 5 across the board everywhere.  I hate to see a reductionist approach to mechanics in Wurm.  That only brings it closer to other games I'm not playing for a reason.

 

As for how it was before, ask around.  It doesn't matter now, but my memory isn't that bad and I liked cooking even when there was little involved.  Didn't have much to work with, but manipulation of ingredients did make a difference... perhaps you can see why I like the update so much.

 

If you knew it was only applicable to breakfast, funny your first thought was to hard code a flat solution across the board rather than look at what could be done within the existing mechanics first.  Again, that's not remotely how any other help to new players was provided.  Instead, providing better or more appropriate existing in-game tools has generally been the answer.  No reason whatsoever cooking needs to be any different without at the very least exploring that option fully.

8 hours ago, Stanlee said:

 

"Think there was even one that had a -5 difficulty"

3d35905e7405485385f9de1fa9e2370a.png regarding current recipes.

No evidence of such existing in old recipes.

Again, I distinctly remember this existing.  Ask around.  No matter at this point, my reaction was more akin to exasperation at the thought of things having been dumbed down.  If it wasn't, good, let's keep it that way.

8 hours ago, Stanlee said:

Would make a nice bumper sticker, but be open to solutions other than slapping a band-aid on something.  In the long run, people who like Wurm like having the tools needed to accomplish things for themselves.  Programmatic handouts add nothing, on the contrary.  More satisfying would be the new player having more appropriate means of raising their skill, if the current way proves too arduous.

 

3 hours ago, Joelle said:

 

From CA Help literally just now:

 

[18:05:10] <New Player> (Xan) as a new player what should i make to eat, we tried making a lot of stuff but it doesnt seem to add much to our food, eating cooked meat so far is the best
[18:06:50] <Joelle> Personally, I'd try roasting a pig over a campfire.
[18:07:39] <New Player> (Xan) we roasted a pig and the whole 7 weight only added like 5% food to our bar

 

So much for that theory, eh?

Don't know about you but I'm not sure I'd want to suggest changes to the code based on <New Player>, particularly when known players with quantified experience are telling you something completely different.

 

Have a look at this too.  May prove relevant.

 

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2 hours ago, Reylaark said:

known players with quantified experience

 

On 7/15/2017 at 8:46 PM, Reylaark said:

In fairness, I have not started a new toon since the cooking update

 

2 hours ago, Reylaark said:

quantified experience

 

On 7/15/2017 at 8:46 PM, Reylaark said:

not started a new toon since the cooking update

 

L7cQtTi.jpg

 

Gotta ask, what "quantified experience" is it you have on a new issue (since the cooking update) that primarily effects new toons (that you have not started)?

 

@Angelkaine I gave the Pig Roast a try in WU. Your numbers were a little ass-pully; at QL1, it fed 10% food. QL5 was a good bit better.
So I guess I'll cede that if mass-murder of a server's stickable animals is intentionally required to keep a small group of newbies fed, this change doesn't need to enter consideration.

Edited by Stanlee
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I think you are misunderstanding the suggestion reylaark,

 

It strikes me that this suggestion is aimed at improving the filling effect of low quality food to help new players start out in the game, currently new players making food will spend a long time just to fill the food bar, far longer than they used to prior to 1.3.

 

Starting out, quality impacts how filling food is immensely, with 1 skill I killed a pig and made a spit roast, the whole 7 kgs filled 4% on my food bar. Obviously ql boosts this a little bit but the suggestion is aimed at boosting the lower end without affecting the higher end all too much.

 

New players are the ones affected by this, not experienced players

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7 hours ago, Stanlee said:

Gotta ask, what "quantified experience" is it you have on a new issue (since the cooking update) that primarily effects new toons (that you have not started)?

Wasn't talking about myself.  Really couldn't figure that out based on what you quoted?  Then again, I couldn't figure out why you put up a picture of an omelette before seeing it was a little face.

My base assumption was (and generally always is) that the devs would have considered the new player experience at some point prior to releasing the update.

 

7 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I think you are misunderstanding the suggestion reylaark,

Spoiler


It strikes me that this suggestion is aimed at improving the filling effect of low quality food to help new players start out in the game, currently new players making food will spend a long time just to fill the food bar, far longer than they used to prior to 1.3.

 

Starting out, quality impacts how filling food is immensely, with 1 skill I killed a pig and made a spit roast, the whole 7 kgs filled 4% on my food bar. Obviously ql boosts this a little bit but the suggestion is aimed at boosting the lower end without affecting the higher end all too much.

 

New players are the ones affected by this, not experienced players

 

 

I would still find it really surprising that this wouldn't have been taken into consideration prior to release.  The new player experience is usually at the forefront, a LOT of work and thought went into the cooking update, surely there's an answer in there somewhere... or so my thinking goes.

 

If it's an oversight, meh, it happens.  No biggie, you guys will address it and onward we go.  I rather doubt my blindly swinging an axe all over the thread is going to stop you guys ;)

 

At 1 skill, you get 4% from a pig on a stick.  Thank you for reporting that back, more comfortable taking your word than a random <New Player> who could just as easily be alt #23 of someone who's been here since 2008 for all I know.

At 1 ql, Stanlee reports back getting 10%, with "a good bit better" a 5ql.  Whatever a good bit better is, ostensibly above 10%, but still not enough.

Curious where the difference originates, but Stanlee's is WU and I would guess yours is from WO.  Perhaps that explains it.

 

If something like adding in utensils to noob gear so they can more easily and quickly raise their skill to a usable state could solve it, it would have also introduced them to a useful part of the mechanic in the process. 

Or switching out the pottery bowl that has a lower difficulty limit of 20, for a sauce pan where a stew of difficulty 7 can be made.  Add in the skill gain from dicing the meat, chopping the veggie, etc. for faster leveling.

 

If there is no such solution, then obviously you guys know your game best and you'll fix the problem as need be.

*******************************************************

Thanks for the discussion and indulgence everyone, I can be a stubborn old goat, but as Jberg would note, it's because I care.

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ummm +.5? I always thought that food should restore hunger based on kg rather than quality after the cooking update. CCFP, Huge Affinity times for xp boost, and Nutrition should stick with the ql to make cooking skills important. 1kg of 100ql Pumpkin should not be able to fill me more than 3kg of 10ql pumpkin... same goes for drinks. 

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In case anyone still thinks this is about handing seryll armour to newbies, here's a good example code for a fix:

 

com.wurmonline.server.behaviours.MethodsItems.class

line 4632, part of static boolean eat, current code reads

int fed = (int)(weight < 30 ? weight * qlevel * bonus : 30.0F * qlevel * bonus);

Suggested code reads

int fed = (int)(weight < 30 ? weight * Math.max(qlevel, 10) * bonus : 30.0F * Math.max(qlevel, 10) * bonus);

This code would cause any food below QL10 to restore food (it doesn't appear to feed into CCFP or affinity) as if it were QL10. It means food is still a good time-consumer, but not an uphill battle on a conveyor belt, so there's still plenty of incentive to take up cooking.

 

The modifyHunger code this feeds into is a little hard to understand, but this may have adverse effects on nutrition (handled as if the item is QL10 or higher) so this code may not be exactly favorable.

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9 hours ago, Stanlee said:

In case anyone still thinks this is about handing seryll armour to newbies, here's a good example code for a fix:

 

com.wurmonline.server.behaviours.MethodsItems.class

line 4632, part of static boolean eat, current code reads


int fed = (int)(weight < 30 ? weight * qlevel * bonus : 30.0F * qlevel * bonus);

Suggested code reads


int fed = (int)(weight < 30 ? weight * Math.max(qlevel, 10) * bonus : 30.0F * Math.max(qlevel, 10) * bonus);

This code would cause any food below QL10 to restore food (it doesn't appear to feed into CCFP or affinity) as if it were QL10. It means food is still a good time-consumer, but not an uphill battle on a conveyor belt, so there's still plenty of incentive to take up cooking.

 

The modifyHunger code this feeds into is a little hard to understand, but this may have adverse effects on nutrition (handled as if the item is QL10 or higher) so this code may not be exactly favorable.

Another approach might be to make the minimum output quality for any cooked item 10ql.  The end result is the same, there's no need for any cooked items below 10ql if the effect will be 10ql anyway.

This would mean the player still needs to cook whatever it is they're eating to gain the 10ql effect, rather than just munching the ingredients themselves.  This is assuming "fed" as it appears above applies to whatever is used to be fed, including raw ingredients off the ground.

 

Does kinda maybe open the door to, "well why is any other product not 10ql minimum in effect..." but maybe no one will ever bring that up.  Just a mention for the discussions devs will have regarding this issue behind closed doors.  Easy enough for them to dismiss it if I'm anticipating a bit too far ahead, but a 1ql iron that imps things to 10ql (as effect) would certainly be useful.  Or a 1ql log imping things to 10ql(as effect), etc.  Doesn't affect higher skill levels either, it's an argument that could potentially come up given precedent.

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+1 absolutely.

There's already CCFP and nutrition to make the usage of bad food punishing, there's no need to make noobs unable to feed themselves, also looks ridiculous to consume kgs of food, even if bad, and still be hungry.

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The fact that the wolf meat would feed a lot more and even good means there needs to be no change to filling of foods. There are enough alternatives for starters, which are even easier than the example.

 

-1

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+1

 

Makes sense that the hunger bar would be a set quantity of food regardless of QL, with CCFP and nutrition being the QL rewards.

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