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9 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Yes, depending on the skill. 

 

With imping skills/farming/mining/other things with an action at higher difficulty it's easy to push the difficulty up high enough to continue to receive the same frequency of ticks as on freedom.

 

For things with a lower difficulty like meditation it hurts more than it helps. 

So in essence, its harder to skill on Epic? I mean, on freedom we have mentoring, which makes skill grinding to 50 a breeze (I got from platesmithing from 15 - 34 yesterday in about 5 hours, casually.)

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14 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

why are you guys arguing about skill difficulty on a server no one plays.

Because we want it to be a server where people play :D

 

There's nothing wrong with looking for ways to revive epic, or allow those who play there to have something to show for their efforts.

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1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

So in essence, its harder to skill on Epic? I mean, on freedom we have mentoring, which makes skill grinding to 50 a breeze (I got from platesmithing from 15 - 34 yesterday in about 5 hours, casually.)

What is mentoring? It doesn't show up on the wiki, but you make it sound like more than a skilled person giving you advice.

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43 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

why are you guys arguing about skill difficulty on a server no one plays.

 

In case you hadn't noticed, I play there, regularly, while I may have a server almost entirely to myself at times, I ain't nobody, and that, by definition, means somebody plays there.

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It doesn't really matter, if few persons still log on there. There aren't enough players on epic any more to sustain life so to say. So it can be safely said, that epic cluster is dead.. no matter that it is on life support and servers are kept running.

 

EDIT:

When does a cluster reach that point? When those, who want to play will stop playing, because they have not enough people to play with. Freedom is moving the same direction. Too many servers, not enough people to populate them.

Edited by rixk
Just added a bit

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6 hours ago, Darmalus said:

What is mentoring? It doesn't show up on the wiki, but you make it sound like more than a skilled person giving you advice.

Mentoring is when someone imps an item for you to a specific quality (there is a formula for it) whre its too high for you to imp, but the skill tics you get when imping it are pretty damn high. Its the best way to skill up and only works on Freedom. Its why Epic players say its much easier to skill on Freedom. 

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6 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Mentoring is when someone imps an item for you to a specific quality (there is a formula for it) whre its too high for you to imp, but the skill tics you get when imping it are pretty damn high. Its the best way to skill up and only works on Freedom. Its why Epic players say its much easier to skill on Freedom. 

it works on epic

i've abused it plenty :- )

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1 hour ago, Worksock said:

it works on epic

i've abused it plenty :- )

yea, but you can't effectively abuse it to 90+ skill like you can on freedom which is the point

 

imaging trying to find 99.23ql items for hitting 90skill on epic

 

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Quite a few freedom players go to epic for tome title personal goals; thats about the only good reason I have heard to visit epic.

 

Really though the big question is "I spent years/months/weeks on my freedom character, why would I want to start over?"; if there were some solid incentive to do so then the current disparity between the epic/freedom skillsets might work out.  As it is though, there is 0 benefit from playing on epic vs playing on chaos for freedomers.

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What I'd like to see is a change of attitude towards Epic. It shouldn't be the place where PvPers go, a niche. It should be the place where you get the full sandbox experience, with less grinding than Freedom. Something more for the player that likes Wurm, but can't spend that much time to play on Freedom, but at the same time the complete adventure (with the existing possibility of raiders or raiding).

Don't just send people to Freedom just because they like to plant flower beds and build a fancy house. I know many non-pvpers who like epic more. If it were after me, when the player is given the server choice I would do my best to avoid the word PvP. The second the person sees that he will think of twinks, pvp-lollerboys and the usual... Epic was never about this during my couple years play-time, no matter what the devs had in mind for it initially.

I would rather tell new players when given the choice: skill learning and action durations are modified to fit a more casual playstyle. And: experience the complete Wurm adventure with the posibility of your homeland being raided by enemy kingdoms or expanding your kingdoms influence in the contested area blah blah blah.

To sum it up: casual and adventure. And there new players... kaboom.

It might sound like cheating Freedom of some new players, but the players that would go to epic would be the ones that find freedom to slow and too boring and too incomplete of a sandbox experience. Most of them would leave anyway after a short while so all you're left is with some unfinished stools, woodscraps, a decaying 2x1 house and a player you could have had for 2+ years but, being on the wrong server, lost interest. I tried 3 times to play wurm before I started playing on epic. I went past the lack of animations (at that time) but the slowness of it all was what killed it for me every time.

 

Wurm is a great game but it needs to reinvent itself. The way I see it now is:

  1. Wurm Freedom - alternative to building a house IRL.
  2. Wurm Epic - PvP supremacy ownage, l33tz0re kind of fun.

Most people won't like either. But I think I am right when I say many will like: complete sandbox adventure casual playstyle friendly.

 

And FYI I still log on Epic. And I have two people in my list who i frequently come across. There's also some neighbours that seldom log. But yeah it's not what it used to be.

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6 minutes ago, Idlamn said:

What I'd like to see is a change of attitude towards Epic. It shouldn't be the place where PvPers go, a niche. It should be the place where you get the full sandbox experience.

you mean the full loot/raiding experience or whatever.

7 minutes ago, Idlamn said:

I know many non-pvpers who like epic more. If it were after me, when the player is given the server choice I would do my best to avoid the word PvP.

You would try your best to not tell the player what they are going into? The biggest difference from freedom and epic.

9 minutes ago, Idlamn said:

I would rather tell new players when given the choice: skill learning and action durations are modified to fit a more casual playstyle. And: experience the complete Wurm adventure with the posibility of your homeland being raided by enemy kingdoms or expanding your kingdoms influence in the contested area blah blah blah.

To sum it up: casual and adventure. And there new players... kaboom.

Is the kaboom part them leaving because they lost everything they spent hours working on after not knowing there was pvp?

 

The goal shouldnt be to steal somebody from pve. If a person likes pve then let them pve, if a person likes pvp let them pvp. If a person wants to try both, then let switching clusters give sleep bonus to the unactive character. Besides, the type of player vs player combat is crap in comparison to many other games. Text based games can offer something more interactive ._.

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7 hours ago, Yiraia said:

The goal shouldnt be to steal somebody from pve. If a person likes pve then let them pve, if a person likes pvp let them pvp. If a person wants to try both, then let switching clusters give sleep bonus to the unactive character.

I don't mean steal. I mean saying Epic is a PvP people will start thinking that's all there is. It's not lieing to them. It's telling it so that people who aren't into pvp that much won't say: not my type of playstyle from the start. Like I said a lot of people on epic are ok with the full loot experience but really focus on other things. Those people will leave Freedom anyway because it's too slow.

In other words they should know other kingdoms can raid their homeservers, but also know that there are more benefits than just pvp, and that the purpose of the cluster is not actually taking turns in bashing each other in toggle combat. Because it's not. No matter what the devs initially planned for it, life on the homeservers was seldom PvP-oriented.

 

Think of it this way: Wurm is a player-driven world. If it's a player-driven world would it make it hardcore PvP just because the devs wanted it so or say it is so? Of course not. How much PvP there is is dictated by the players who do or don't PvP. And a lot of people don't PvP that much on Epic.

Edited by Idlamn

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On 7/13/2017 at 0:08 PM, Retrograde said:

 

Valrei rework has progressed and I'll chase up some public stuff with that from budda some time over the next week, might not be time to show it all yet but I'll see if we can provide some insight.

 

First of the combat reworks came with the uttacha, with others being looked at, these will be expanded upon as time goes on too.

 

As you can see from this the main priorities are:

  • Fix broken systems
  • Balance systems
  • Add content unique to epic

We also have a few more epic centric plans not listed there, but they'll be waiting for the major reworks to come out before beginning those and I'll share them all when we move with them. 

 

2016   "Valrei changes coming soon to fix epic."

 

2018   "Valrei changes coming soon to fix epic."

Edited by Morrowen

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Oh interesting. What Valrei changes are they planning and when? Are they adding more interesting missions?

Edited by Idlamn

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@Zenity, I see you agree with Idlamn so maybe you can shed some light for me. If i step on pvp and it becomes populated enough to have maybe 30 people on every island, then should I worry more about making defences for my base and have proper weapons and armor to defend myself or should i worry about improving my paving skill and thatching skill to make pretty places. The difference between the two is how i view PvP vs PvE. And please no answers like "Im sure everybody would be nice and see you arent there to fight, only for faster xp," because with successful PvP games comes toxic players.

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28 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

@Zenity, I see you agree with Idlamn so maybe you can shed some light for me. If i step on pvp and it becomes populated enough to have maybe 30 people on every island, then should I worry more about making defences for my base and have proper weapons and armor to defend myself or should i worry about improving my paving skill and thatching skill to make pretty places. The difference between the two is how i view PvP vs PvE. And please no answers like "Im sure everybody would be nice and see you arent there to fight, only for faster xp," because with successful PvP games comes toxic players.

 

Epic is a PvP cluster, you should expect to be raided no matter whether you are on Elevation or one of the Home server, there is no safety from other players.

 

If you do want to play on Epic you must be prepared for that eventuality.

 

You can of course choose to make a deed as pretty as you wish, since to be completely truthful, it's players who defend deeds, not walls, not guard towers, archery towers or lava filled moats or cunning mazes and tunnels. In the end there have been, and still are players on Epic who are not there for the PvP itself, but feel that the added dimension of danger that being raided and having to fight for your land has an extra something that perhaps Freedom lacks.

 

Yes, I've seen my share of toxic players, raiders, and same kingdom, I can't comment on whether that's endemic to PvP, never mind confined to Epic or not, but I'd be flat out lying if I said otherwise, but they're not the majority, I can't really comment on other kingdoms either, since the vast majority of my time on Epic has been as JK, with very little exposure to MR or BL, never mind the various PMK's.

 

Bottom line, I play Wurm like I play Wurm, on Epic or on Freedom, I tend to be myself in both clusters, generally a nice guy, helpful, and mostly respectful toward other players, even the toxic ones. Others may have a different style or experience, but in the end it's the players who make the game, in PvP or PvE.

 

My time on Epic has seen me raided, killed, chased and left without so much as a carving knife to my name, but whether it's PvE or PvP, I'm big enough, and tough enough not to take it personally, it's part of the game, and accepting that you'll be a killer or a victim is part of playing on Epic, it's best to be prepared to defend what you've built, because on Epic you can deed it AND lose it...

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Yes, it is endemic to PvP.

You will get a-holes in any type of game, but PvP communities in general, pick up the worst garbage from an already rather unclean roster of players.

 

Its not a Wurm problem, try other games that have both PvE and PvP communities, and the same thing happens. I first experienced that on UO in the old days, and I still havent seen the trend change.

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3 hours ago, Rathgar said:

Yes, it is endemic to PvP.

You will get a-holes in any type of game, but PvP communities in general, pick up the worst garbage from an already rather unclean roster of players.

 

Its not a Wurm problem, try other games that have both PvE and PvP communities, and the same thing happens. I first experienced that on UO in the old days, and I still havent seen the trend change.

You mistaken pvp community from fast paced games (wich are in most mmo's) with wurm pvp, wich requires devotion and a lot of time to achieve anything. Different pvp communities.

Of course there are exceptions everywhere.

Edited by Wilczan

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3 hours ago, Rathgar said:

Yes, it is endemic to PvP.

Nah its not. PvE and its private unique slayings is an example. Another personal example is the forest that was near me. I had plenty of oaks right next to my deed unclaimed and somebody came to chop them all down without replant, including a massive forest behind me. Leaving me with a grassland like view thats TERRIBLY ugly, but bearable. I dont care much about the ugly view, but my oak trees... If he wanted to grind woodcutting that would have been nice but i wanted my oak :( . To be fair though, I was once like that when i wanted to try a tree mission for 1000 karma. Luckily i got it on my 5th attempt and the active guy nearby didn't have much to suffer over. 

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I only once got killed since I started playing. And most of my playtime I had this house in the open with just a gatehouse and some walls in front of it. Easy to catapult, easy to get inside. To make it even more raider friendly I also added lights all over the place so you couldn't miss it if you were in the area. I only got raided once while I was afk, and had a rare stachel taken from me (but was recovered later by the kingdom), and some occasional horse thieves, now and then, when I wasn't playing that much and the walls to my pens decayed.

 

Tools and such can be easily replaced and even more easily protected: you can put them on an account that just carries your stuff or on a merchant with ridiculous prices. If you are in a deed you can breed new horses. Obviously raiders won't usually bother taking your materials or furniture, so you should not worry about those. The only hard to repair damage would be the boats, I guess.

 

Of course, there are people that simply want to cause mischef. They could go around and just catapult your house for their amusement or for trying the new trebuchet or whatever. Epic allows that. It never happened to me but it is possible. Still, compared to other sandbox MMOs such as Mortal Online, WO Epic is much quieter. 

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On 8/31/2017 at 7:56 PM, Yiraia said:

@Zenity, I see you agree with Idlamn so maybe you can shed some light for me. If i step on pvp and it becomes populated enough to have maybe 30 people on every island, then should I worry more about making defences for my base and have proper weapons and armor to defend myself or should i worry about improving my paving skill and thatching skill to make pretty places. The difference between the two is how i view PvP vs PvE. And please no answers like "Im sure everybody would be nice and see you arent there to fight, only for faster xp," because with successful PvP games comes toxic players.

 

If you're smart, the worst anyone is likely to do is bash some walls, mess up some terraforming, cut some trees, drop dirt on your crops and maybe kill your animals. You can easily put people off form doing these things by not advertising your stuff in public, by keeping good items off world on alts and making sure people know your place isn't built by a newb that's easy pickings. Ain't no one going to spend the time bashing into a deed for no loot, only time someone will go to those lengths is if you've done something to piss them off. There really isn't anything to fear from being raided, only time it really stings is when you do something stupid which an enemy capitalizes on, like leave some valuable on display instead of having it locked away in a hidden reinforced mine with a steel door. Only people that would be really effected by a raid would be lower skilled new players and even those would bounce back in no time.

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They just need to allow us to cross as we please from both epic and freedom, reinvent epic as the go-to pvp cluster and have the freedomers able to have all the mechanics they want without effecting pvp.
The biggest thing is the barrier, when you make a new char, you get confronted with the choice, Epic or Freedom? Where do you invest your time? History says epic is and even if it picks up could be again a dead cluster, chaos isn't that much better.
So many people from Freedom would like to cross and pvp then return to their simple freedom lives, many people on epic want a break from the constant dangers and make a deed in peace on freedom, why keep us separated?

Let's be clear, valrei changes will do nothing for chaos, these are Epic based updates, so we're basically blocking out the freedom pvp side - for no reason.
Wurm staff are clear that they understand the grind is long and it takes to long to get into pvp - Why are we asking both Epic or Freedom, to play a different cluster you need to do that grind again?
This would pretty much stop any cluster / account being 'dead' as you'd always have a choice to play among a community, not a 3 person populated server.

So when we speak of advertisement, which cluster/server are we advertising? Freedom? Chaos? Epic? Surely you need to spend atleast 2x the amount because if you want people to come Epic, you need Epic specific advertisement and if you want people to go Chaos/Freedom, you need to be clear on that aswell. You can't have same advertisement, because if all your new players come in and nobody chooses epic, all your work and updates were for nothing. Again, remove the barrier, let people cross how they please.

You're essentially splitting the player base into 2 communities even tho there are calls to have us joined.

No items will cross, just silver as it is already - skills will transfer.

For people with skills on both sides, it will take the highest skill and make it so for both, simple.

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54 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

They just need to allow us to cross as we please from both epic and freedom, reinvent epic as the go-to pvp cluster and have the freedomers able to have all the mechanics they want without effecting pvp.
The biggest thing is the barrier, when you make a new char, you get confronted with the choice, Epic or Freedom? Where do you invest your time? History says epic is and even if it picks up could be again a dead cluster, chaos isn't that much better.
So many people from Freedom would like to cross and pvp then return to their simple freedom lives, many people on epic want a break from the constant dangers and make a deed in peace on freedom, why keep us separated?

Let's be clear, valrei changes will do nothing for chaos, these are Epic based updates, so we're basically blocking out the freedom pvp side - for no reason.
Wurm staff are clear that they understand the grind is long and it takes to long to get into pvp - Why are we asking both Epic or Freedom, to play a different cluster you need to do that grind again?
This would pretty much stop any cluster / account being 'dead' as you'd always have a choice to play among a community, not a 3 person populated server.

So when we speak of advertisement, which cluster/server are we advertising? Freedom? Chaos? Epic? Surely you need to spend atleast 2x the amount because if you want people to come Epic, you need Epic specific advertisement and if you want people to go Chaos/Freedom, you need to be clear on that aswell. You can't have same advertisement, because if all your new players come in and nobody chooses epic, all your work and updates were for nothing. Again, remove the barrier, let people cross how they please.

You're essentially splitting the player base into 2 communities even tho there are calls to have us joined.

No items will cross, just silver as it is already - skills will transfer.

For people with skills on both sides, it will take the highest skill and make it so for both, simple.

I kinda like this. Playing a WU server where this is the case (althought instead of portal you can sail over). I like for easier "kinda" grind on the Pvp server but still having a PvE server which does not have a curve for backup. I personally think that having 2 different pvp maps is too much also so should delete both and transfer the skills to freedom, make 1 map (exodus size map, maybe Deli size) and put a portal where you can go back and forth. 

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