The state of Epic

[rixk 830]

Neither is running the servers as ghost towns.. especially on PvP servers, you can't go there like: "I want to have awesome PvP, but I don't want to have people around me".

[Klaa 4,872]

Pvp in Wurm is a completely different mindset from people who prefer to be hermits. Let alone playstyle.

 

Not only is it like comparing apples and oranges... IT IS!

 

Personally I blame the pvp server issues on toxic players more than game mechanics. The differences between the pve and pvp code are mute, both have the same issues, and yet which is going the way of the dodo in terms of player numbers?

 

Unfortunately even if all cheaters are routed out and booted, there's still the players who fostered the environment and condoned the actions by doing nothing.

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Klaa

[rixk 830]

33 minutes ago, Klaa said:

Pvp in Wurm is a completely different mindset from people who prefer to be hermits. Let alone playstyle.

 

Not only is it like comparing apples and oranges... IT IS!

 

Personally I blame the pvp server issues on toxic players more than game mechanics. The differences between the pve and pvp code are mute, both have the same issues, and yet which is going the way of the dodo in terms of player numbers?

 

Unfortunately even if all cheaters are routed out and booted, there's still the players who fostered the environment and condoned the actions by doing nothing.

 

Both styles go "dodo".. only 2700 prem players now in Wurm, another 10% premiums gone in last couple of months. PvE simply has longer bench, but it is bleeding the same way.

 

[Brew 116]

As a non epic player, I still question how much these comments help the state of it either way?  ^

[Zenity 728]

1 hour ago, Brew said:

As a non epic player, I still question how much these comments help the state of it either way?  ^

 

If no one talks about it, how's anyone going to know there might be a problem?

 

 

[Oreo 5,793]

:poop emoji:

[Joelle 728]

2 hours ago, Brew said:

As a non epic player, I still question how much these comments help the state of it either way?  ^

 

I would tend to agree. I can't imagine being a new or prospective player perusing the forums and seeing all this negativity about the future (and current state) of the game. Would be awesome to see some more positive and constructive threads about Wurm, in my opinion.

[Mclavin 3,704]

13 hours ago, Klaa said:

 

And what of those players that would prefer not to live in such proximity? Seems to me that people who want to live near each other... would live near each other. Such people do tend to gravitate and seek out others.

 

Closing servers to FORCE people to be near each other seems hardly conducive to the intent of keeping people ingame.

SO a whole cluster should suffer for the 7 remainders? What?

It's an online game, if you don't want to live near people then switch to single player, or expect some player interaction from time to time.

[Mclavin 3,704]

33 minutes ago, Joelle said:

 

I would tend to agree. I can't imagine being a new or prospective player perusing the forums and seeing all this negativity about the future (and current state) of the game. Would be awesome to see some more positive and constructive threads about Wurm, in my opinion.

And you mislead a new player into joining epic and he finds out after x amount of work it's dead and you lose him anyway?

Where as if you speak about the issues and there is a chance to fix, you solve both problems.

[Angelklaine 4,266]

I dont think there should ever be a lid on constructive criticism. If we discuss things, we give staff a chance to investigate and make changes as needed if the problem is real. If people were spreading misinformation, I can see the need to stop it, but you can't hide the truth with the intention of luring players into a lie, and you can't successfully argue that 15-20 people online across 4 servers during peak times is a successful population count for an MMO.

 

Regardless, Epic is a fun place to play, and can get better with some work. The Devs are working hard to help fix things on both sides of the clusters. I dont see Epic getting shot down anytime soon, but I have seen way more fixes in the last two months than all of the most part of my time in here. Its a good sign. 

[Klaa 4,872]

12 hours ago, Mclavin said:

SO a whole cluster should suffer for the 7 remainders? What?

It's an online game, if you don't want to live near people then switch to single player, or expect some player interaction from time to time.

 

Are not those seven (unsure where that number is coming from anyways... it smells a bit) technically the whole of the cluster now?

 

Kidding aside, from where did you even remotely get I'm saying a "whole cluster should suffer for the 7 remainders"?

 

And there's social interaction in online games? Especially in pvp games with teamwork involved?

 

22 hours ago, rixk said:

Both styles go "dodo".. only 2700 prem players now in Wurm, another 10% premiums gone in last couple of months. PvE simply has longer bench, but it is bleeding the same way.

 

 

Meh I argue the accuracy of your numbers to begin with. Each premium account is hardly a unique player, for I know some players who run godawful numbers of chars. Even I have a few, and I don't always keep them all on premium 24/7.

 

Aside from the hysterical kneejerk reactions people have to what is actually normal behavior in subscriptions. During initial launch and subsequent large patches there's always a huge rush, then a trickling off followed by gradual plateau'ing.

 

Granted that aside there is some of a bleed off of players in PvE; however, that alone does not indicate the reasons for the bleedoff are the same as PvP bleedoff.

 

Heck the largest recent drop in PvP players were players who went PvE in protest.

Most pvp now is just scavengers fighting over dead bones, and they can choke on those bones personally. <CENSORED INCOHERENT AND VIOLENT RAMBLINGS>

 

In fact I don't see anything between the two bleedoffs to even begin imagining common factors. Rates aren't even remotely the same.

 

Granted the PvE Freedom cluster was just something Rolf slapped on last minute. Was never part of the original vision, He and Notch had in mind something similar in concept to Eve Online's security zones and interconnected solar systems.

 

However... all that aside. The game is actually growing when one takes a look beyond the past few years. Even "2700" players is huge compared to the beginning. There is a flood of coin in the economy. Prices have actually gone down across the board, and there are goods so easily available its almost sickening to recall how we fought over scraps of rope and cotton (good times).  Wurm is actually fairly healthy; though, I grant there's a lot needed in player retention and attracting.

 

Best remedy for retention personally is creating systems to support socializing (As a pvp player I know the values of such intimately). Masters in various disciplines and apprentice skills (ie a teaching and learning system). Player-run schools. Cheaper mail costs for letters. Ingame bulletin boards (something I harped on for years till its addition) where people can post their own requests or whatever. Overhauling merchants to allow primitive bartering instead of just coin.

 

A game could be the worst imaginable; however, a lot of players will stick around just to chat and mess around with each other.

 

Complaining about something or "raising awareness" is all fine and good; though, personally I put more stock on coming up with and successfully implementing solutions.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Klaa

[whykillme 1,621]

Merge with freedom and fully remove the epic servers. This conversion should properly recalculate the skillpoints because its way easier to grind on epic.

[rixk 830]

I know perfectly well, what the drill is. Player numbers go in waves. Well timed expansions keep the trend positive. Rolf managed to pull it off actually too, with the releasing of new servers. He released server, it became full.. when the numbers started to drop, he released another one.. until he took too big bite.. Xanadu, it was too big to be filled with people, so it was hard to "sell" another server, when numbers started to drop.

 

All the talk about how big percentage of playerbase is alts is pointless.. thing is.. the premium numbers are following downwards trend for two years now. There have been few bumps - mainly because of free stuff, which was given out during last years anniversary and xmas times. The texture packs, which have been released recently with big fanfare, haven't had basically any effect on numbers.

 

Just an example about prem numbers.. They are reaching 2011 levels(it was bit under 2.5k back then). 

But back then was only Freedom and Wild. So think, how many players were per server back then and how many now.

 

My point about player numbers never was financial.. I know Wurm can survive at low numbers. But in current state of things Wurm is becoming more and more single player game. The problem is, that each server needs to have a certain number of players, that critical mass, which makes it alive. Right now we have so many servers, but when a new player logs in game, its emptyness.. deeds here and there.. but noone in sight. Another problem is, that there can be even 10 new players log in at the same time. But because there are so many servers and spawn points, chances are very slim, that they meet. Which rules out a possibility for them to team up and go out on survival trip(or whatever adventure) together. That is why I say there are too many servers and sensible thing is to close down some. Yes, it is not as easy as said.. but that is what causes problems.. Epic is beyond saving imo, because their numbers have fallen too low, makes more sense to focus on other PvP option, which Chaos provides.

[SmeJack 5,800]

Merge with freedom and dont touch skills because its way easier to grind on freedom

[Mclavin 3,704]

Just highlight what klaa said and delete. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by Mclavin

[Wilczan 2,048]

In last few months, there were many good additions to the game.

Devs are planning few more big updates (new UI, kingdom influence changes, account system, etc) and said that those changes are needed to have solid foundation for game.

 

I think this is a good way, but in the end it won't be enough to gain new players or returning players.

To achieve that, players need some bigger event, like reset, merge, new server or some bonus gifts like free premium month for every new player etc.

 

So it looks that in next months or year-two we gonna recieve many good updates, but in the end it would go to the same point: some kind of big bait would be needed to bring players to the game.

 

And THEN, all those patches will make players stay LONGER in the game.

 

[Retrograde 12,013]

3 minutes ago, Wilczan said:

In last few months, there were many good additions to the game.

Devs are planning few more big updates (new UI, kingdom influence changes, account system, etc) and said that those changes are needed to have solid foundation for game.

 

I think this is a good way, but in the end it won't be enough to gain new players or returning players.

To achieve that, players need some bigger event, like reset, merge, new server or some bonus gifts like free premium month for every new player etc.

 

So it looks that in next months or year-two we gonna recieve many good updates, but in the end it would go to the same point: some kind of big bait would be needed to bring players to the game.

 

And THEN, all those patches will make players stay LONGER in the game.

 

Be much better if those patches and features were in the game when people came back for any big event or change, just saying

[Wilczan 2,048]

2 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Be much better if those patches and features were in the game when people came back for any big event or change, just saying

That's exactly what I meant, we need those patches before, so make sure that new/returning players will stay longer.

 

But it still need some mayor event, I'am refering to Budda's words that there will never be some kind of merge/reset for Epic.

[Firecat 864]

14 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Regardless, Epic is a fun place to play, and can get better with some work. The Devs are working hard to help fix things on both sides of the clusters. I dont see Epic getting shot down anytime soon, but I have seen way more fixes in the last two months than all of the most part of my time in here. Its a good sign. 

 

"Epic is a fun place to play"    sure if you like paying subscription fees for a singleplayer experience on an MMO

[Klaa 4,872]

Isnt 2011 around the time Rolf announced raising the price of premium in response to some changes in Sweden, think it was their tax law?

 

Recall that announcement really causing the number of premiums to go nuts. Certainly caused me to buy extra time than what I usually bought.  

 

New content and all is great for a temporary draw. However, again what keeps people around and creates a positive outlook for a game is the players. Courtesy and helpfulness goes a long way, even for the cynically minded. Try not to be an elitist prick.

 

One can still smile and be pleasant while murdering someone for their boots.

 

Such definitely goes for mmos in general, and triply so for a sandbox like Wurm.

 

1 hour ago, Mclavin said:

Just highlight what klaa said and delete. 

 

A version of the ad hominem fallacy? Even the ancient Greeks considered that one old.

 

Surely you can do better.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Klaa

[rixk 830]

9 minutes ago, Klaa said:

Isnt 2011 around the time Rolf announced raising the price of premium in response to some changes in Sweden, think it was their tax law?

It was in 2013..

[Klaa 4,872]

13 minutes ago, rixk said:

It was in 2013..

 

Exactly... the numbers spiked from people buying.

[Oreo 5,793]

Did I hear someone say that player numbers go in waves.. if that's true.. where is the "Summer of BL" as we called it.  There wasn't one this year at all.

 

Waves are going missing it appears.

 

Isn't hat what happens before a tsunami?

Doubt there's one comin'.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Oreo

[Morrowen 428]

19 hours ago, Joelle said:

 

I would tend to agree. I can't imagine being a new or prospective player perusing the forums and seeing all this negativity about the future (and current state) of the game. Would be awesome to see some more positive and constructive threads about Wurm, in my opinion.

Yea because noobs perusing the forums is what causes them to quit and not the fact there might only be 5 people on desertion during peak times.

[Reylaark 1,100]

4 hours ago, Klaa said:

One can still smile and be pleasant while murdering someone for their boots.

 

Yes, and in fact, I think it's far more frightening when the person doing the murdering has a calm and pleasant disposition.

There's just something very very wrong with a nice person repeatedly driving an axe into you while complimenting you with every swing.

*************************************

As for the rest of the thread... Epic's not closing.  Epic's not merging.  Devs have not given up on Epic, as confirmed by Retro.  They plan tidings of joy for the whole family.

Nothing to see here, move along, nothing to see.