Stop Enchanted Grass Loss

[JakeRivers 2,921]

So according to retrograde enchanted grass has a tiny chance of being destroyed when a animal eats it.

 

This tiny chance means I loose 2-3 enchanted tiles on my deed every week.

 

This is not a 'tiny chance' it is constant maintenance.

 

I have redone most of my pens into ugly 1x1's due to animals not being smart enough to spread out.

 

Unless a horse has just given birth, my ugly 1x1 pens have just one animal in them.

 

We no longer have to constantly repair decorations, my paved roads on my deed last forever, why do we need to constantly replace enchanted grass tiles on our deeds.

 

If we are going to the trouble to limit the animals mostly to 1, other than hitched animals were you often see 2 on the same tile. Why must we constantly cultivate, replant and recast our grass tiles. I understand the want to prevent people from storing 20 animals in a 1x1 pen, but having to put up with this loss on a managed deed is ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

[Kadmint 528]

Yes, I have noticed this matter as well happening on my deed. And I have almost same numbers with my deed's enchanted grass, 1-2t tiles per week gets stomped and I have to replace them constantly because of it... and not much of a fan of it. So I hope that this very much asked tiny bit of feature could be made as many Wurmians have asked.

[Yldrania 1,424]

+1 

 

Perhaps remove the stomping chance ON DEED and leave it available off deed. That way we have the benefit on our managed deeds but can't randomly turn off deed areas into endless meadows.

[Niki 2,278]

They need to make it how it used to be, before some random dev thought it was OP.

 

It's not OP, game is a chore without it if your a breeder.

[Sila 339]

easy fix... give every horse sadle and put it on tile... if they dont move they dont destroy

[Joelle 728]

2 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

This tiny chance means I loose 2-3 enchanted tiles on my deed every week.

 

This is not a 'tiny chance' it is constant maintenance.

 

Jake, you have hundreds of enchanted grass tiles. Your chances of the tiles turning to dirt are just as tiny as anyone elses, there are just more opportunities for it to happen on your deed.

[Seriphina 1,223]

I don't have a massive area of enchanted grass, my animal ratio is 31, and I've lost 3 tiles this week.  I was thinking that it was just really really bad luck lately, but it seems this is happening to others.  Were the odds changed? Because this is extremely frustrating.

 

Before you ask, no, I don't have 50 animals crammed into a small pen.  For example: I have a 4x4 pen with 9 animals, the enchanted grass is getting stomped and they keep getting diseased, so something tells me some coding has been altered.  Please put it back.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

1 hour ago, Joelle said:

 

Jake, you have hundreds of enchanted grass tiles. Your chances of the tiles turning to dirt are just as tiny as anyone elses, there are just more opportunities for it to happen on your deed.

 

My smaller deeds where there are only a dozen or so enchanted tiles seem to suffer the exact same fate, it is just not seen as often.

 

Don't talk when you don't know the facts.

[Yiraia 427]

+1 for on deed.

[Attenia 232]

+1 +1 +1!!!

I have the same problem, I have a very long list of tiles I need to enchant, which goes slowly enough with only one enchant per day for each path of love character, and it's made exponentially more annoying by the fact that I have to keep going back and re-enchanting tiles I've already taken care of.  You don't need grass packing to keep people from storing loads of animals on one tile. Anyone who has actually tried this knows that said animals become diseased very quickly and have to be removed to individual pens to recover.

There was a suggestion a while ago to link packing enchanted grass to deed ratio - so it has no chance of being packed if you're within the deed ratio for animals, but the more you go over it, the higher the chance is. This may be a good solution, though at this point any solution that stops my enchanted grass from disappearing would be good with me.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

Lost another tile today, oh joy.

[MrGARY 12,421]

always said on deed with proper ratio should not have packed grass, if bad ratio or off deed, current pack chance

[Budda 2,669]

For what its worth, the current chances to turn enchanted grass to dirt when eaten by a grazer is:

• 1/1600 off deed.
• 1/2400 on deed with a bad creature ratio.
• 1/4800 on deed with a good creature ratio.

Compare that to the 1/20 chance to reduce the grass height on normal grass tiles, and you can see how it can be called a 'tiny chance'.

 

(Also just as a nice comparison to something in a similar range, getting fantastic roll is generally a 1/10000 chance when doing an action. So when a creature eats from enchanted grass on a good ratio deed, it has about 2x the chance that players have to create a fantastic item to turn that tile to dirt.)

 

Also as noted in the creature movement feedback thread - enchanted grass cannot be packed at all via creature movement. The only way that tile can be packed is from the enchanted grass being eaten to packed dirt. then packed via creature movement.

[Darklords 2,238]

8 minutes ago, Budda said:

For what its worth, the current chances to turn enchanted grass to dirt when eaten by a grazer is:

• 1/1600 off deed.
• 1/2400 on deed with a bad creature ratio.
• 1/4800 on deed with a good creature ratio.

Compare that to the 1/20 chance to reduce the grass height on normal grass tiles, and you can see how it can be called a 'tiny chance'.

 

(Also just as a nice comparison to something in a similar range, getting fantastic roll is generally a 1/10000 chance when doing an action. So when a creature eats from enchanted grass on a good ratio deed, it has about 2x the chance that players have to create a fantastic item to turn that tile to dirt.)

 

Also as noted in the creature movement feedback thread - enchanted grass cannot be packed at all via creature movement. The only way that tile can be packed is from the enchanted grass being eaten to dirt, then packed via creature movement.

Might be the rate they are polling that chance that causes issue, from what I remember on epic one week the motd was please enchant grass on cooldown those horse *some bad word* are packing enchanted tiles like crazy.  We had good ratio to, guess it really depends on the time between that 1/4800 poll if you happen to know.

[Budda 2,669]

It only runs that check when they actually graze, so when you get the message in event saying "Soandso grazes.".

[Darklords 2,238]

Just now, Budda said:

It only runs that check when they actually graze, so when you get the message in event saying "Soandso grazes.".

What is the trigger for that to happen I mean sorry, I never payed attention to how often they graze or what triggers it.

[Budda 2,669]

Just their hunger. They have the same sort of hunger bar, nutrition and usage that players have, when they get below a certain threshold they'll look for food. They gain about 15% food when grazing - we could probably change that to give a bonus for eating from enchanted grass, currently there is only a bonus to their nutrition when grazing from anything but steppe.

[Darklords 2,238]

5 minutes ago, Budda said:

Just their hunger. They have the same sort of hunger bar, nutrition and usage that players have, when they get below a certain threshold they'll look for food. They gain about 15% food when grazing - we could probably change that to give a bonus for eating from enchanted grass, currently there is only a bonus to their nutrition when grazing from anything but steppe.

Might not hurt, enchanted grass def seem to vanish faster than it should and can tend to be a chore to keep up on when you got more than say 80+ tiles of it which maybe is intended to be fair since the more tiles you make the higher chance 1 will pack.

[Attenia 232]

46 minutes ago, Budda said:

For what its worth, the current chances to turn enchanted grass to dirt when eaten by a grazer is:

• 1/1600 off deed.
• 1/2400 on deed with a bad creature ratio.
• 1/4800 on deed with a good creature ratio.

Compare that to the 1/20 chance to reduce the grass height on normal grass tiles, and you can see how it can be called a 'tiny chance'.

 

(Also just as a nice comparison to something in a similar range, getting fantastic roll is generally a 1/10000 chance when doing an action. So when a creature eats from enchanted grass on a good ratio deed, it has about 2x the chance that players have to create a fantastic item to turn that tile to dirt.)

 

Also as noted in the creature movement feedback thread - enchanted grass cannot be packed at all via creature movement. The only way that tile can be packed is from the enchanted grass being eaten to packed dirt. then packed via creature movement.

I've been playing Wurm for over two years and I've never created a single fantastic item, but I've had dozens of enchanted grass tiles packed in that time. If it really did only happen once in a blue moon that wouldn't be so bad, but I still think it would be best to make enchanted grass eternal no matter what.

[Alyeska 2,621]

4 hours ago, Budda said:

For what its worth, the current chances to turn enchanted grass to dirt when eaten by a grazer is:

• 1/1600 off deed.
• 1/2400 on deed with a bad creature ratio.
• 1/4800 on deed with a good creature ratio.

Compare that to the 1/20 chance to reduce the grass height on normal grass tiles, and you can see how it can be called a 'tiny chance'.

 

(Also just as a nice comparison to something in a similar range, getting fantastic roll is generally a 1/10000 chance when doing an action. So when a creature eats from enchanted grass on a good ratio deed, it has about 2x the chance that players have to create a fantastic item to turn that tile to dirt.)

 

Also as noted in the creature movement feedback thread - enchanted grass cannot be packed at all via creature movement. The only way that tile can be packed is from the enchanted grass being eaten to packed dirt. then packed via creature movement.

 

I trust your numbers are good, but experience says they are not right. Perhaps the bigger issue is the animals AI crowding them into corners, which significantly increases these odds. If the % is supposed that small anyway, I do not see any issue with removing it altogether on deed, to be honest.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

4 hours ago, Budda said:

(Also just as a nice comparison to something in a similar range, getting fantastic roll is generally a 1/10000 chance when doing an action. So when a creature eats from enchanted grass on a good ratio deed, it has about 2x the chance that players have to create a fantastic item to turn that tile to dirt.)

 

I see your numbers Budda but I call bull on that stuff, cause I loose so many enchanted tiles, making a fantastic item is nothing more than a myth.

 

Loosing enchanted grass tiles on my deed with a good animal ratio, (that is anything above 15 right?) is a weekly fact.

 

[madnezz 555]

You might want to double check your math because I get about 20 packed tiles a month across my deeds and they all seem to come at once.  So I will wake up to 3 packed tiles on one deed for example.  All of my ratios are correct and I have no more than 2 animals per tile.  I'll start keeping track of when and how many from now on since it's such a rare event supposedly.

 

If only I could get fantastic items when the devs are wrong about something, instead I just get more packed tiles, typical.

[Etherdrifter 2,512]

When taken individually, each action has a very low chance to pack a tile.  However, lets say you have 50 horses, then for each graze tick (assuming all the horses graze at once and that you use the good ratio numbers) the odds of at least one tile losing its enchant is [1-(1-1/4800)^50] = 0.010 (to 3 d.p)

 

In essence, even with a good ratio, every 50 graze ticks has a 1% chance to remove at least one grass enchantment.  Which is not so very tiny when you consider it.

 

The number either needs tweaking significantly downwards, or the ondeed removal of enchanted grass needs eliminating.

[Reylaark 1,100]

My experience seems to be opposite of everyone else's.  No, I don't mean I'm getting a daily fantastic   I mean I just saw my first packed enchanted grass tile in months yesterday, and that was inside a small barn with a bunch of meandering cows.

 

I think @Joellemay well have a point.  It's true that I don't have as many enchanted grass tiles, or animals, as everyone else on this thread... so stands to reason I'd see it less often.  Still, proportionally, one in forever is not at all what those freaking out in here seem to be saying.

 

I've always been told 2 tiles / 1 animal.  Hence all the 2 tile pens around. 

If you have 1 tile pens with 1 animal, I'm not surprised you're seeing these life ruining packed tiles. 

If you have 2 animals per tile, again, sorry, but not surprised.

 

I realize some people have ludicrously large industry going on, and feel the minutiae is just too much... but I'm generally against all set it and forget it mechanics.

If it's too much for you to handle, then you're shooting yourself in the foot and need to reconsider.

The fact that you're shooting yourself in the foot means you shouldn't be playing with guns... it does NOT mean we suddenly need idiot-proof guns.

[Alyeska 2,621]

14 minutes ago, Reylaark said:

 

I've always been told 2 tiles / 1 animal.  Hence all the 2 tile pens around. 

If you have 1 tile pens with 1 animal, I'm not surprised you're seeing these life ruining packed tiles. 

If you have 2 animals per tile, again, sorry, but not surprised.

 

I realize some people have ludicrously large industry going on, and feel the minutiae is just too much... but I'm generally against all set it and forget it mechanics.

 

I have a 8x9 pen with about 20 horses/unicorns. That's significantly more than the 2 tiles per animal you are suggesting - they still pack it, because they crowd into corners. The amount of animals in this pen does not matter, as long as there are more than 3 this becomes an issue. I do not want a "mcdonalds slaughterhouse" where I have to separate my horses into individual battery style pens or place saddles on them, gluing them into place (and then dying because they cannot eat when they pack the tiles they're on). I want my horses to roam freely throughout their pen without getting constantly diseased and dying/miscarrying because they pack those tiles.

 

Hellhorses do not suffer from this problem. They spread out throughout their pen on their own nicely. I have never had a packed tile in their pen. Sheep, bison and cows suffer from it even moreso than horses/unicorns do. My sheep packed a tile in their 3x4 pen with just 3 animals in it. Thankfully I own more than one account that I pay for so I'm able to fix these tiles fairly quickly, but I imagine if you do not have this available and have to pay someone every time to come fix it every time, you'd get annoyed pretty quickly.

 

The problem is the animal AI that causes them to not move properly like normal animals would, which in turn causes them to act retarded on enchanted grass and pack it.  I know which of the two is an easier fix, considering we have been hearing that animals should stop crowding/going on cliffs/going into the ocean since... at least since 2008.