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agentusp

Wurm Online thoughts about where it's headed

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@agentuspI enjoyed reading about your Wurm experience. It gives me the warm fuzzies when I learn of how a game/book/long running show really touches peoples' lives. As crazy as it sounds to nongamers, Games and *your fellow players* can become those people and experiences that easily fills our happy meters in our daily life. We go to it to recharge, connect, and experience. One of the closest thing to real magic in my opinion. It is out there still! It may not look exactly the same at first, or feel exactly the same at first, but you'll find it again. It's natural to feel sad and discouraged. Approach your search with an open mind, while remaining true to what you honor, and you'll find that magic again. Good luck to you. It sounds like your heart is in the right place. Not that I'm some expert on heart placement, just. . . I relate to you as a gamer and hope you find happiness. Guess I could have just posted only that last sentence. 

:D

 

Edited by Babinka
Smiley placement/spelling
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^The smiley was supposed to be at the end of my post. I don't "Forum" much.

 

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Pff there will not be intentional resets of existing maps, so ignore the idiots screaming about such.

 

The one time there was an intentional reset or wipe of a map it was Epic's Elevation server, and that new map was voted for in game. Hard to say if that even helped due to Epic's low population.

 

Erosion would be nice over the longterm; however, that would take up server overhead and dev development time better spent on other projects.

 

I'm all for new maps; though, such is up to the devs when they feel its affordable and worth it. That said I'd love to see specialty maps: oceans with atolls, deserts, frozen north and south regions, and etc.

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On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 0:58 AM, Klaa said:

That said I'd love to see specialty maps:

Yes, as in a Server with no aggressive mobs on it. So much time I waste and am harassed by these mobs that I really want nothing to do with. Let others enjoy their aggro mob experiences but we should at least have one Server alternative with no aggro mobs as a choice for those so inclined.

 

=Ayes=

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How you get from "Ah the nostalgia. Everyone looked the same. Champion deers looked more like giraffes. "  to  "Lets zap all the servers and start over" - I have no idea.

 

  • Times Change
  • Technology Changes
  • People Change

 

Wurm is 10x the game it was back then.

WU gives you the flexibility to fashion Wurm to your own style

WO gives you "the Wurm establishment" - the power of a managed and developed environment that will still be here tomorrow as long as someone plays it (the same cannot be said for all the WU server you might play)

 

WO isn't perfect, we all know that, but harking back to a byegone era isn't the way forward in my opinion.

 

In my opinion,  the way forward for WO should be in creating new content for PVP and PVE servers. The rifts were a good starting point, the cooking update another, the enhanced use of caves yet another - this is the way to engage and keep players.

 

Specially for PVP.  Well I'll get shot down for it but I believe the PVP maps are too big. Chaos and Epic can prosper, but when it takes 2 hours to travel to PVP, an hour of gate-hopping, then 2hours back, well, only the hardcore will put up with that (assuming you don't die to the lag in the meantime).

 

Oh, and someone suggested the answer might be Xanadu. Unless something has changed since the last time I frequented there, the LAG server, isn't going to solve any problems.

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whats this about puting everyone closer together on lagfest xanadu server..

I play on Celebration and i would never trade it for any other server.Like Lancelot said we will all quit(i will for sure),being on a low populated server has its benefits for people like me who enjoy the quiet and free drama zone,i don't like busy chat and crazy people being crazy.Also i'm close to people on every other server than i am to someone living at the edge of xanadu.

New content is the way to go(not that i complain..so many things have been added that i lost track off half). Fix PVP for those who enjoy it and wurm is just fine! Freedomers who complain just lack imagination and will or maybe time to play.

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I couldn't agree more with Solmark and Jonydowy.  Further, I've always held firm endgame in Wurm is purely what we make it.  I, too, do not think Xanadu is the answer.  It lags as it always has, it will not get much better I fear.  At the current time I feel the dev team is doing a fine job ensuring the survival of Wurm.

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In my opinion, as a veteran of this game, Wurm Online has mostly gone the route (maybe rough at times) that was ultimately the best.  Wurm Online has not only evolved graphically over time, but it has also continued to update features on a regular basis that has kept the players evolving right alongside the game.  It hasn't cut off its nose to spite its face.  It hasn't sold out, either.  Wurm Online has kept a steady evolutionary pace to keep up with the players--and technology--as they have grown over the years. 

 

Bravo, developers of Wurm Online--you've been playing the long-con successfully, and I speak for myself when I say how proud I am of this game, where it came from, and where it is today.

Edited by Tytrus
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On 8/3/2017 at 3:52 PM, Tytrus said:

Wurm Online has kept a steady evolutionary pace to keep up with the players

 

I have to disagree with this statement. Seeing that you're a "veteran" player you would know the game hasn't kept up with the players. It took years for horses and boats to release, hell the fighting system was released unfinished close to 9-10 years ago and has remained the same with small tweaks to focus levels and special moves. Rolf had the ability to save the population when Epic started but he chose to keep Wild/Chaos because a few cry baby people who don't play anymore or are dead wanted Chaos to still be a thing. Then we follow the Epic road for about 3 years and it dead ends because of OP items that are only attainable if you play chase the monkey for 12 hours a day and lack of content being added or fixed. 

 

Bravo, developers of Wurm Online Rolf left you with a mess.. 

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50 minutes ago, Pedro said:

 

I have to disagree with this statement. Seeing that you're a "veteran" player you would know the game hasn't kept up with the players. It took years for horses and boats to release, hell the fighting system was released unfinished close to 9-10 years ago and has remained the same with small tweaks to focus levels and special moves. Rolf had the ability to save the population when Epic started but he chose to keep Wild/Chaos because a few cry baby people who don't play anymore or are dead wanted Chaos to still be a thing. Then we follow the Epic road for about 3 years and it dead ends because of OP items that are only attainable if you play chase the monkey for 12 hours a day and lack of content being added or fixed. 

 

Bravo, developers of Wurm Online Rolf left you with a mess.. 

Plays like a good game to me.  Always has.  Not perfect, but that's fine. :)  To each their own, however.

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I don't think chaos and epic co-existing was an issue.  Around the time that epic was releasing and wild was still separated, wild would see <10 players on it often.  After the initial release of epic hype died down, sometime 2012 my memory fails me, elevation would tend to see similar numbers.  Yet, as we reached 2013-2014 which I tend to categorize as epic's golden years, epic was booming with 300-400 players on the cluster alone, and elevation without any map reset yet would still see up to 100 players daily and there was tons of action, skirmish thread was lively.  During this time, chaos was also thriving but I don't recall any population numbers.  Looking at some logs and memory, total population on wurm would be 1000-1500 in 2013

 

I think the best question to ask is where did they all go, and why?  Wurm was still handing out new content, granted nowhere near as fast and as much as these days, but on the flip side it also meant wurm had a lot less content, and a lot less bug fixes, yet it had more players?

 

In the years of my life wasted in this game I've always noticed how there are generations of players.  You'll always have the ones that have been here for 5-10 years, whether they play here and there, a few hours a day, or nolife binge wurm 24/7... then you have the bulk of the population that at least on epic I've noticed is always changing.  2011-2012, I saw and spent my time mostly with people I knew from wild and a few people fresh to a fresh cluster.  2013-2014 I saw less of those older wild players, and far more newer ones.  2015 and on a lot more of those newer players were gone and it was a mix of older players through the years and newer players (not counting any temporary booms from map resets).  As we reach 2016 and then on to 2017, there are just even less older players and far less newer players.  Randomly through the years up until the population drop post-ele map reset older players would occasionally pop up, but they would also disappear

 

so basically (and i probably already said this in this thread?) wurm always bled out like any other game would but it had newer names popping up to keep things steady. now it doesnt and focusing on that is of most importance with things like a ui that at least fits this decade and I'm hopeful that helps at least somewhat.  other than that I think people just get bored of playing regardless of content just like any other game and they just stop playing, and then their friends stop playing, and it trickles down.  It doesn't mean the game itself is bad really.  I've put tons of hours into games like oblivion, skyrim, fo3+4, and the modding community excels at adding more content than one can imagine, but for every single one of those games I just suddenly stopped playing them and stopped caring they existed.  Thousands of hours into these games and I just stop because despite all this new content, it's the same exact base game and you just get tired of it.  Then you play another game, and repeat.  The advantage that those games have over wurm and mmos in general is that you can save or reach a checkpoint and stop and play again tomorrow, or a week later, it doesn't matter there is no consequence.  Which is the biggest flaw wurm has which is also one of its greatest characteristics at the same time.  The biggest expense that wurm has is your time.  You -have- to "play" to grow your farm, take care of your animals, manage your upkeep/deed, the list goes on.  If you don't play, there are consequences, and being forced to play just to maintain the game so you can then play normally is tiring and over time becomes really not enjoyable and to a large amount of people in this world they are not interested in a game like this.  I enjoy the whole aspect of grind to get better, I enjoy that there are some consequences, but truth is I would have quit a long time ago if it wasn't for friends that I've made and play with. 

 

tl;dr I don't think I intended to write this much, we need focus on new player retention which is Budda's aim, and the harder thing to fix is that wurm asks for too much of your time and gives too many consequences if you don't give it.  Granted there has been some updates to help that, but fixing an issue that is also the core part of the game is very hard

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headed down friendo

 

a dev just told you to move on lol

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9 hours ago, MrGARY said:

You -have- to "play" to grow your farm, take care of your animals, manage your upkeep/deed, the list goes on.  If you don't play, there are consequences, and being forced to play just to maintain the game so you can then play normally is tiring and over time becomes really not enjoyable and to a large amount of people in this world they are not interested in a game like this.  I enjoy the whole aspect of grind to get better, I enjoy that there are some consequences, but truth is I would have quit a long time ago if it wasn't for friends that I've made and play with. 

 

tl;dr I don't think I intended to write this much, we need focus on new player retention which is Budda's aim, and the harder thing to fix is that wurm asks for too much of your time and gives too many consequences if you don't give it.  Granted there has been some updates to help that, but fixing an issue that is also the core part of the game is very hard

 

Agreed overall; though, I personally disagree with the mindset one -has- to grow their own farm, animals, manage upkeep, and etc. Such things is shouldering a burden that one really doesn't have to do solo, unless that's one's thing.

 

Sure its somewhat of a necessity when resources and labor are scarce; however, even Epic probably has plenty of salvageable stuff sitting around. The time such rarity really exists is when a new map is rolled out and isolated (fun times).

 

Anyways, I digress, as Mrgary mentions its the connections developed that help to retain, and - as Ive mentioned before - features that help to foster and strengthen these connections will prove beneficial. Still theres plenty of space for new content, and whatever to serve as the initial draw or hook.

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I really do think when still has the chance and ability to turn things around. But in order to do so the when team will have to learn how to take a different approach and remove the bias because at the end of the day most of not all are all players. 

 

Some drastic changes would need to be made and 1 of them would be scrap epic and merge the content. Also merge the accounts but with altered skills based on an algorithmic equation.  

 

The added content imo for things like Valeri missions could be instanced with a portal so all (including freedomers) could attend.  

 

Also adding a portal to chaos would be great as well... But with the exception that upon using the portal to chaos you take nothing with you. Your inventory must remain clear in order to portal. This way the only way to move items would still be by travel by sailing. 

 

Updates like meditation are also extremely important and the team would need to get on the ball with that.

 

Overall if they simply would just stop feeding us a line of bullshat I'm willing to bet our population would be in much better shape right now. 

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15 hours ago, MrGARY said:

the harder thing to fix is that wurm asks for too much of your time and gives too many consequences if you don't give it.

@MrGARY thank you for putting into words the nagging feeling that Wurm gives me. I love this stupid game but its too hard to take a decent break or even go away for vacation for a week without thinking of all the chores that will be waiting. When we come home from vacation, there are plenty of chores to do irl like cut the grass, laundry, etc. I shouldn't have to log on to Wurm and do the same in a virtual environment. Its hard to walk away from something that you have devoted so much time and funds into making that brings you joy. I feel as though I cannot leave this game without disappointment. 

 

I know its not fair to compare Wurm to other games, however, other games handle the "breaks" much better. On some mobile games, there are options to enter "vacation modes" where your game is put into stasis. In Wurm, I also can not rely on storing certain items in inventory without risk of decay. Give me an option, perhaps once or twice a year, to put my deed into "vacation mode". No deed upkeep is lost, no deed decay, no tree growth and animals remain healthy. Vacation mode ends when I log back on. Perhaps limiting it to 30 days maximum with minimum 90 days between breaks otherwise I can see some ways to abuse this.

 

Give me a bloody chance to walk away from this game when I need to. If I stay away too long, like many players, I may not want to log on and "start over" again after everything I built, owned or otherwise is gone. The game gives me no choice but to maintain and pay if I want to have a long term experience with a healthy balance of life away from the game. I cant see someone like myself returning after a year absence. 

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4 hours ago, MaurizioAM said:

Also merge the accounts but with altered skills based on an algorithmic equation.  

 

Why though?  Don't you think it's enough to take away peoples servers/homes/items if a merge is really in the sake of saving the population? 

If someone on epic got to get 40 skill faster than freedom, who cares? its 40 skill, even if it's weaponsmithing, whats the issue, having 45ql weapons?

If someone on epic got 90 in a skill, depending on the skill it either was around the same speed to get or actually harder on epic

If someone grinded properly on freedom, it is far easier to get double skillgain to match epic's skillgain, except not hindered by difficulty that is too high.  (on epic, to get double skillgain as you reach 90 skill you will need items higher than 99.23ql.  as you reach only 70 skill you still need 93.07ql items)

If someone grinded properly on epic... uh... well you can't.  Outside of the super high ql requirement for improving, you... can't really change the difficulty for many other skills that are creation only.  Meditating is arguably one of the most important skills for pvp, very useful for pve too, but it's 100% harder to do on epic because the skill requirements are not curved but the skillgain difficulty is curved.  The only way to change difficulty is the rug ql and where you meditate, which doesn't get you very far.  Freedom med grind is fast compared to epic

 

If accounts get merged with a skill loss, I would like to see bought accounts get a skill nerf based on how long they have owned the account, afterall the issue is certain people don't feel like those on epic earned their skills, right?  Or is it perfectly ok to throw a credit card at a 90 body strength account on freedom, and anyone that even has an average 50+ body strength on epic didn't earn it and should be nerfed?

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I'd agree with Gary. Absolutely not to a skill decrease should a transfer ever go in.

 

Look at it this way, as if it wasn't enough to be losing everything you've built, crafted, bred, terraformed, mined etc etc, you'd also be losing out on a lot of grinding. This all adds up to a lot of time invested into a game that you won't get back, you shouldn't have to suffer a skill decrease alongside all of that.

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I'll just throw this out there since the topic has been broached, a merge implies bringing a benefit to at least 2 parties when they are joined. Importing typically benefits 1 party. What does freedom gain from a merge?
I'm unconvinced that closing epic or freedom servers is a good step for WO in the future because who wants to play when they can have their work wiped out? Once you start wiping out servers, no server is sacred, too old or too valuable and any work can be removed, with or without compensation.

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2 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

Why though?  Don't you think it's enough to take away peoples servers/homes/items if a merge is really in the sake of saving the population? 

If someone on epic got to get 40 skill faster than freedom, who cares? its 40 skill, even if it's weaponsmithing, whats the issue, having 45ql weapons?

If someone on epic got 90 in a skill, depending on the skill it either was around the same speed to get or actually harder on epic

If someone grinded properly on freedom, it is far easier to get double skillgain to match epic's skillgain, except not hindered by difficulty that is too high.  (on epic, to get double skillgain as you reach 90 skill you will need items higher than 99.23ql.  as you reach only 70 skill you still need 93.07ql items)

If someone grinded properly on epic... uh... well you can't.  Outside of the super high ql requirement for improving, you... can't really change the difficulty for many other skills that are creation only.  Meditating is arguably one of the most important skills for pvp, very useful for pve too, but it's 100% harder to do on epic because the skill requirements are not curved but the skillgain difficulty is curved.  The only way to change difficulty is the rug ql and where you meditate, which doesn't get you very far.  Freedom med grind is fast compared to epic

 

If accounts get merged with a skill loss, I would like to see bought accounts get a skill nerf based on how long they have owned the account, afterall the issue is certain people don't feel like those on epic earned their skills, right?  Or is it perfectly ok to throw a credit card at a 90 body strength account on freedom, and anyone that even has an average 50+ body strength on epic didn't earn it and should be nerfed?

What is it about an algorithmic equation that you don't understand? The whole purpose to break it down and figure out the real numbers is simply to figure out the real numbers. If the equation at the end of the day shows at higher levels epic skill grind is in fact harder then you have nothing to worry about. That's the reason why I made it clear that the devs would have to actually give a shot and put in some work to really get to the bottom of the equation. After all it's not hard, the code is there and the formula is given all that needs to happen is some testing and they could figure it out pretty quick. I wouldn't say epic players need a need unless if testing showed they would. Along with that you would be gaining some body stats since epic had some weird restrictions on how to gain certain ones so IMO it would even itself out at the end of the day. 

 

The next thing is the more resistance just means simply never will there be a merge and then for real your hard work would have gone to nothing... Unless you like playing on a dead server that will never see a live healthy population again. I would rather see the devs make a hard but real decision and I would rather see that all clusters merge so everyone could benefit from the potential growth in community and be able to take part in all aspects the game offers. Segregation like they have now will only continue to receive the same comments they have gotten for the past many years. Clusters and servers here each other because chaos gets this, epic gets this, freedom gets this... There are many things that don't need to be only one sided like valeri missions, I would bet many freedomers would take part if that was instanced for example. 

 

I'm simply just seeing the facts of when life and would like to see the best made out of it.  I again think that wurm could actually be saved but that means that the dev team needs to act now. The same old never taking care of things till it's to late and treating their customers like crap is not going to cut it for much longer. Population is dropping like flies and there's no where near enough new players to replace them. 

 

Serious changes need to be made and it would take some balls to get it done.  Just for clarification the only reason why I'm suggesting a real testing be done to determine if any skills would need to be nerfed or added is because if it's not one side to complain it will be the other.. That's just simple psychology, so to make everyone happy with how the outcome would be testing would prove the best case real skill value to which no one can then complain. If it were only up to my opinion I wouldn't give a shat and I would just merge everyone with their skills, but it's not only up to me or you it's going to involve everyone that feels they could be affected so what's the harm in finding out the real scoop?

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16 minutes ago, Pingpong said:

I'll just throw this out there since the topic has been broached, a merge implies bringing a benefit to at least 2 parties when they are joined. Importing typically benefits 1 party. What does freedom gain from a merge?
I'm unconvinced that closing epic or freedom servers is a good step for WO in the future because who wants to play when they can have their work wiped out? Once you start wiping out servers, no server is sacred, too old or too valuable and any work can be removed, with or without compensation.

Which is why I would keep home servers intact with the merge.. And I would make chaos the new elevation. The difference is with merged skills then the entire population gets to benefit from the addition of each other. I'm also not apposed to some compensation for losses. 

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Merge's have one issue no one ever seems to address.

 

What about the players who have the same character on Epic cluster and Freedom cluster, (Chaos included), obviously they'll have to lose one of those, as well as the items, structures and years of playtime they amassed on one, or both of the clusters.

 

Yes, if, in the extreme unlikelihood, a shutdown of Epic ever occurred, any reopening would be fraught with problems of associated with transferred characters, and lets not kid ourselves, Wild was shut down, and then later reopened again, as a PvE server initially, the precedent is already set, servers can be shut down, they can be reopened again as well, other servers previous to my joining Wurm have also been shut down, those are now lost forever, and I'm not just referring to Wurmageddon either.

 

We have been assured, that as long as one player continues to log in regularly on any server there is no option to shut it down, but what if no one logs in regularly? Then all bets are off.

 

Nothing is set in stone, and we don't have any rights or expectations that have to be honoured by CCAB, the EULA we agree to before we log in is rather explicit in that respect.

 

@PingpongWhy must there be any such two party transaction here? It's no different from accepting refugees from a natural disaster in the real world, and in most cases we're not talking about a crowd of unskilled and uneducated players here, many are as old and experienced as Me, in fact one of them is me... and has skills approximately equal to my Freedom character.

 

Even with no skill reduction calculations, Epic characters will find themselves less able than they were, due to losing the effective skills curve of Epic, it's an Epic only separate mechanic, and would mean that in some respects Epic characters would already have lost a certain amount of skill just on merging or transferring to Freedom anyway, it's not some magic skill inducing mechanic that gives extra skill to the player, it's a magic skill modification that only applies on Epic itself, over in Freedom a 50 skill is 50 skill, on Epic it's still 50 skill, but the modification allows crafting (mostly) as if the player were 75 skill, but on freedom it'd be 50, no matter what.

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11 minutes ago, Zenity said:

Wild was shut down, and then later reopened again, as a PvE server initially, the precedent is already set, servers can be shut down, they can be reopened again as well

 

fyi, wild wasn't shut down and then later reopened.  it was a planned merge to join wild to the freedom cluster as a pve server

 

20 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

What is it about an algorithmic equation that you don't understand?

 

nothing, what I do understand is that everyone that is vocal about adjusting epic skills in a merge is crying to nerf them, never raise

And no, we wouldn't be gaining body stats as body stamina was already adjusted when mining/digging was changed to give stamina

 

20 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

Just for clarification the only reason why I'm suggesting a real testing be done to determine if any skills would need to be nerfed or added is because if it's not one side to complain it will be the other.. That's just simple psychology, so to make everyone happy with how the outcome would be testing would prove the best case real skill value to which no one can then complain. If it were only up to my opinion I wouldn't give a shat and I would just merge everyone with their skills, but it's not only up to me or you it's going to involve everyone that feels they could be affected so what's the harm in finding out the real scoop?

 

If you don't care and are fine with a 1:1 merge, then why suggest changing it at all?  Why do you care about "real skill" when you have purchased accounts, did you earn those real skills?  It's not fair to anyone to raise epic skills in a merge, so I won't consider that.  But again, if epic skills would be reduced in a merge because it's not earned, why is it ok to buy accounts and keep those skills?

 

edit:  yes my main concern about any potential merging are dual cluster skills/tomes/med paths/faith, and yes it has been brought up in probably 90-100% of the merge threads

Edited by MrGARY
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46 minutes ago, Zenity said:

the players who have the same character on Epic cluster and Freedom cluster, (Chaos included), obviously they'll have to lose one of those, as well as the items, structures and years of playtime they amassed on one, or both of the clusters.

Well, if somebody invents a magical formula (which i think can't exist tho) to convert skillpoints, then you can just add up values from 2 chars. Structures and items can come with the servers themselves, can't they? Just forbid making new deeds there to avoid further population spread imo.

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1 hour ago, Zenity said:

 

@PingpongWhy must there be any such two party transaction here? It's no different from accepting refugees from a natural disaster in the real world, and in most cases we're not talking about a crowd of unskilled and uneducated players here, many are as old and experienced as Me, in fact one of them is me... and has skills approximately equal to my Freedom character.

 

 

If it was just skills there'd probably be a lot less resistance, the amount of dragons still to be killed on epic (read $$$$$) and tomes and moonmetals that we on freedom isles have 0-1% access to means that it's not refugees coming over but executives with swiss bank accounts (and high skills). Oh and they're happy to sell us of freedom the moonmetals, tomes and dragon hide at your local street corner. What can I sell them to balance out this influx of top end goods? A 5 speed horse? Right then... I don't begrudge folks the advantages of playing on epic. But I don't expect them to carry the advantages of epic I've just listed onto freedom either.

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On 6/17/2017 at 8:14 AM, Sila said:

we should close down all server and all move to chaos or xanadu... and all will be fun again...  some ppl will left but many new will come :D

Agreed. The game is too spread out now.  Was bad enough when they messed up JK Home and then at least we had Indy.  Then they just took and spread everyone out to all corners of the world.  You dont see anyone really wandering around you. On xanadu unless you are near a starter deed, I dont think you see anyone at all. 

 

Sad. Was nice was it was a bit cozier. 

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