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Wurmhole

Livable Starter Towns with Mentors

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On 6/9/2017 at 0:28 PM, Wurmhole said:

3.  Complimentary prem for new players within x range of their starter town, up until they reach x number of total skill points.  Abuse potential, but this can be fine tuned or disabled if it backfires.

Retrograde, the idea was to limit their overall skill gain if they stayed.  I chose this method, over a raw cap per skill, like we currently have.  This gives them some room to excel at a select few skills.  That way that can become useful members of the town and take on roles, like the Blacksmith or Cook.

 

Also, why would some leave?  Just look at all the Academy towns on the various servers.  Almost every players that joined one of those academy towns would go on to either live with a players from the alliance, or start their own deed.  Some few would stay on at the academy, but they felt community!  They learned the game.

 

Old GV failed, but it also succeeded!  It provided community.  When you say "people just didn't want to leave", isn't that actually hitting the jackpot?  You made a part of the game that was so loved that you could not shoo them away?  Don't think of it as a failure.  People just naturally become attached to the friends they make and the first server they land on.  I landed on Pristine and fell in love.  I did leave for Xanadu, but ONLY because all of my alliance went there and it got too lonely, being the last one standing on Pristine.  So I moved.  Eventually, we all got homesick for good old Pristine and nearly every one of us returned.

 

So make a mini GV on each server, or build the new server with this concept.  Send all new players to the new server and don't connect the old clusters.  You can allow new players to go to the old servers, but with warning popups that explain how hard it can be for a new player to fit in or get started with a dead starter town and will be 10 years behind in skills.

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i been part of deeds that tried to "force" every person into a diferent role and that created many problems. thats sounds like a bad idea. for example if 1 person its doing all the cooking,nobody else will learn how that works or get any skill in that.

 

GV "closed" for a reason.

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2 hours ago, Finnn said:

And than.. there be alts.. alts everywhere... mentoring own alts all day long for gifts:wacko:

Obviously you've never played Entropia Universe, otherwise you'd at least have a slight idea of what the reward is, let alone the amount of time... usually weeks to months of actual work that it takes someone to graduate from the mentor system in Entropia.
 

Edited by Legios

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11 minutes ago, Legios said:

Obviously you've never played Entropia Universe, otherwise you'd at least have a slight idea of what the reward is, let alone the amount of time... usually weeks to months of actual work that it takes someone to graduate from the mentor system in Entropia.
 

I've tried it..

 

Obviously you're quickly jumping to random conclusions.<_<

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3 hours ago, Finnn said:

I've tried it..

 

Obviously you're quickly jumping to random conclusions.<_<

I just quoted your random assumption, with an conclusion.

Edited by Legios

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5 hours ago, Finnn said:

I've tried it..

 

Obviously you're quickly jumping to random conclusions.<_<

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have never finished the objectives for your mentor and you have never had someone finish for you.  

 

Rewards should not be full scale sets where everyone would then just make an alt and mentor themselves... Rewards should be something new possibly something useful but not to the point where you as a player would pay premium on a new account and skill it for a few months till you can make bank. 

 

Mentorship should not be a 1 week ordeal it needs to be where just like entropia you literally have to take a player under your wing of you want to see them succeed. It could be a great system of some thought would go into it, and something else vets can do to break up the same old same old wurm has become. Many of us want to and like to help players... Many of us want to see 5k subscriptions once again. It doesn't hurt to try something that cant hurt anymore then things are right now. 

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19 hours ago, Retrograde said:

So I have to ask, if they can do everything on the starter town for free, why leave? 

We arrive at the same point of The initial golden valley.

 

Golden valley was a free roam server that was non prem only, we had active PA's (prototype of CA) and players could do anything within those limitations of non premium.

 

The issue that arose from that is people got too comfortable, and it wound up being a struggle to convince them to give up everything they had worked on to go to a new server. The same thing would happen here, players would be given too much at a starter deeds and either not leave for the fact everything they need is there, or be driven out into the cold and have to struggle to get back there.

 

 the catch of wurm isnt being handed everything on a silver platter with a GM/dev maintained town that provides all the support needed, it's about those goals that are slowly realised through work.

 

I don't see livable starter towns being beneficial, if that were the case any new player starting deed would work and can be achieved by players.

 

The small minds of those responsible for this game, unbelievable.

 

If new players decide to stay in the starter town longer than expected, guess what, the starter town will always appear to have life and will continue to attract and help retain newly spawned players...it will self perpetuate.  The mentors should also be illuminating the benefits of moving on to the next server to encourage growth of the new players.  Benefits like more space to design, different building materials, boats & sailing, different armor types, rare items and better quality, merchants, better variety of mobs, dragons and the rest of the uniques, pvp and the list goes on.  You could also save the ability to ride horses for the main servers too.  Those that want to play the full game will not stay any longer than they have to and those that stick around will still enhance new player retention as GV will be bustling with activity.  

 

Is this really that difficult to see?  If so, maybe Wurm needs a fresh set of new eyes if it wants to flourish.

 

Edited by madnezz

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8 hours ago, MaurizioAM said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have never finished the objectives for your mentor and you have never had someone finish for you.  

It's not my style to follow somebody, rather have somebody to play with, rather than below.. and rather have my own objectives than be given some by somebody else.

I do not see you two playing that game.. there's a reason for that, I also quickly lost interest, the only good from EU were the graphics.. annoying.. and similar enough to remind me of FE, which I tried and had some fun there instead.

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On 11.6.2017 at 9:28 AM, Retrograde said:

So I have to ask, if they can do everything on the starter town for free, why leave? 

 

Oh, they'll leave the starting town eventually anyway: sooner or later the draw to have an own place is enough. And even if that should not be enough it would be easy to limit skill gain on starter town ground to say, skill 20, or better make that 21 so people can ride into the wild. :)

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On 11.6.2017 at 11:28 AM, Retrograde said:

The issue that arose from that is people got too comfortable, and it wound up being a struggle to convince them to give up everything they had worked on to go to a new server.

 

You answered your own issue here, Retro. :)

 

On GV they would have needed to leave the server. With liveable starter towns on the actual game server that won't be a problem: they can pack up and settle and take their carts, horses, animals, etc. with them.

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4 minutes ago, Eobersig said:

 

Oh, they'll leave the starting town eventually anyway: sooner or later the draw to have an own place is enough. And even if that should not be enough it would be easy to limit skill gain on starter town ground to say, skill 20, or better make that 21 so people can ride into the wild. :)

21's cool idea.. but later allows them to ride in the open world also..

Could be incentive to go trough the tutorial.. to get commanding a cart perk.. but it also breaks the current limit of 20.00, and the requirement to go prem at least once.. and raise the skill to that point.. to be able to ride a cart..

 

It's a sub based game after all..

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GV used to be a server just like the others.  But everyone had skill cap. It was meant to be a tutorial starter town in the beginning, but you did not have to leave back then.  people had homes and communitites for years.  So I ask why would you leave a game area that allowed so much for no money? 

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37 minutes ago, Finnn said:

but it also breaks the current limit of 20.00, and the requirement to go prem at least once.. and raise the skill to that point.. to be able to ride a cart..

 

It's a sub based game after all..

 

Can't see how a starter town breaks the skill 20 F2P limit, now new players can skill to 20 alone in the wild, with a starter town new players can skill to 20 together in a starter town if they chose so. Nothing changes for F2P skill caps. :)

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My bad.. somehow read that the wrong way.. sry:mellow:

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*cough cough*

 

Send all new toons to Golden Valley at least until they get 20 in each body stat and major skills. The alt abuse problem would be stopped (not fixed however), and the newbies would have a place to learn the game since you guys made the tutorial non-obligatory. If they manage to stay on GV for a week, two or three they get kicked out into the real (but virtual) world. That ofcourse after stating in the very beginning of account creation that nothing you will make on Golden Valley will ever be able to go with you (maybe except potential rares etc).

 

Let's stop fooling one another, the current "thing" that happens on toon creation is basically an alt factory so you can more easily and quickly get your new grinder to your deed. New players wouldn't mind Golden Valley because they're new and don't know what used to be there, what used to be the tutorial, what's out there in the freedom isles or the epic cluster or whatever. Think fresh.

 

And make GV full prem but with no in-game coins whatsoever. Fully disabled. Only when the newbies decide to move on and leave GV they become non-prem again and all their skills and stats get reset to 20 (about which they've been warned on account creation) and start over. This encourages them to buy premium and ensures their stay since they already know by now what Wurm is about. It's not like giving us large storage units will make new people stay. 

 

Recreating the early game experience and repurposing GV is a big step, but a necessary one if you want more than 400 players in Wurm each day.

 

Problem(s) no more, end of discussion.

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5 hours ago, Erevorn said:

*cough cough*

 

Send all new toons to Golden Valley at least until they get 20 in each body stat and major skills. The alt abuse problem would be stopped (not fixed however), and the newbies would have a place to learn the game since you guys made the tutorial non-obligatory. If they manage to stay on GV for a week, two or three they get kicked out into the real (but virtual) world. That ofcourse after stating in the very beginning of account creation that nothing you will make on Golden Valley will ever be able to go with you (maybe except potential rares etc).

 

Let's stop fooling one another, the current "thing" that happens on toon creation is basically an alt factory so you can more easily and quickly get your new grinder to your deed. New players wouldn't mind Golden Valley because they're new and don't know what used to be there, what used to be the tutorial, what's out there in the freedom isles or the epic cluster or whatever. Think fresh.

 

And make GV full prem but with no in-game coins whatsoever. Fully disabled. Only when the newbies decide to move on and leave GV they become non-prem again and all their skills and stats get reset to 20 (about which they've been warned on account creation) and start over. This encourages them to buy premium and ensures their stay since they already know by now what Wurm is about. It's not like giving us large storage units will make new people stay. 

 

Recreating the early game experience and repurposing GV is a big step, but a necessary one if you want more than 400 players in Wurm each day.

 

Problem(s) no more, end of discussion.

The only downfall to this is that people join to come play with theri friends who may have prem account. if they can;t play right away with their friends they won;t want to stay.

 

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I have long thought that the starter towns should be "living" towns. 

 

There could be rooms to rent in Inns with a lock & key, a bed, and a chest. Newbies could get a couple weeks free rent at first and then the option to keep their room & start paying rent if they're so inclined. Established players could rent a room in town for whatever reasons they may have, maybe because of a nearby marketplace, maybe to meet new people and/or help out, maybe because they just like living in a "living" town, etc., etc.. 

 

There could be small plots in the towns that a newbie would have the option of using for a set period of time to learn how to build fences, a shack, plant a tile of pumpkin and learn how to tend it, how to make a forge or oven if they prefer not to use the public facilities, etc.. When their time expires, they can take any transportable items they're made with them if they choose to, and either rent a room at the Inn or start their own deed somewhere, and then the vacated plot is returned to it's unimproved state.

 

Public mines, clay, sand, etc nearby with in-your-face signs for the newbies on how to get there, and hopefully having had some instruction in the tutorial on what to do once they do get there.

 

And if some people choose to remain indefinitely, I see that as a good thing. That would be accomplishing the main point, which is to create a living breathing starter town that is welcoming to newbies and oldies alike. 

 

It's hard to really put my finger on, or how to recreate that feel since Wurm is different, but the towns in UO were so vibrant with people at the banks, master smiths at public forges offering their services, people hawking their wares, selling horses, etc. and I kinda miss that sometimes.

Edited by Amadee
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well ya know

 

sandbox game

 

you can just do this yourself instead of asking for a game addition

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On ‎11‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 7:28 PM, Retrograde said:

We arrive at the same point of The initial golden valley.

 

Golden valley was a free roam server that was non prem only, we had active PA's (prototype of CA) and players could do anything within those limitations of non premium.

 

The issue that arose from that is people got too comfortable, and it wound up being a struggle to convince them to give up everything they had worked on to go to a new server. The same thing would happen here, players would be given too much at a starter deeds and either not leave for the fact everything they need is there, or be driven out into the cold and have to struggle to get back there.

 

 the catch of wurm isnt being handed everything on a silver platter with a GM/dev maintained town that provides all the support needed, it's about those goals that are slowly realised through work.

 

I don't see livable starter towns being beneficial, if that were the case any new player starting deed would work and can be achieved by players.

 

...but having people live together on a new player starting deed funded by other players is different to this...how?  The fact that players pay for these deeds yet the outcome is exactly the same (newer players can live with them being handed some basic tools in a protected environment while they gain enough skills to strike out on their own, at the same time building relationships with those around them which in many cases will last their whole Wurm life) is exactly the same concept, except, obviously, that players fund these and not the game.  Does it help to retain new people? Yes.  Should it always be up to players to fund this? No. 

 

Also, you should know that not everyone who invites noobies to come live on their deeds is necessarily noobie friendly.  Sometimes the noobies end up being nothing more than slave labor, creating stuff the deed owner sells to help fund the deed the noobie gets free lodging on.  If at any stage the deed owner decides to kick the noobie and take all his/her stuffz, a GM will most likely shrug and say too bad too sad, you live on someone else's deed so they can decide what to do.  These type of things can see a player pack their chisel and leave Wurm.  I know of three noobies who tried making a little house close to one of my friends' deeds but as they were still trying to come up with enough money to make their own deed, they had their animals in pens around the houses.  Some other numnut thought it wise to go kill their bison and lock their fences.  Last time I saw those three noobies was when they raged in local and logged out, never to be seen again.

 

I am not saying livable starter deeds are the right choice, or mentors, but I know that these type of options usually give a much better experience to new players than just being left to their own survival skills.  Nobody said hand everyone everything on a silver platter either.  They still need to mine their own ore and make their own tools, but at least they have a bed and a usable forge and an open mine.  The point is that a char living in a paid for starter town is no different to a char living in a player paid for deed somewhere else.  It is a body in the game.  Whether they don't pay for a starter town deed or they don't pay for a player funded deed, they don't pay for a deed.  However, putting all the responsibility for funding the deeds for noobs back on players, is perhaps not such a wise decision if you are serious about retaining new players.

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15 hours ago, Lolabelle said:

The only downfall to this is that people join to come play with theri friends who may have prem account. if they can;t play right away with their friends they won;t want to stay.

 

 

We could always introduce some sort of system working based on referrals. You start on golden valley, pm your friend or talk to him on the forums, he sends you a type of referral in-game which allows you to leave golden valley and done.

 

This would be abused however. And I'd take the system I proposed over the current alt factory anytime.

 

Also, thank you for saying that it's the only downfall because now it seems we only have one problem to discuss about before we move on and insert the best idea ever (of mine) to the game. 

 

The referral system I just presented would be abused and the alt factory would continue. Who knows, maybe people would start somehow selling the GV referrals for silvers which would miss the original point. I still think mandatory grind up to at least 20 of each body stat would limit the alt spam Wurm is infected with and improve "newbie lifespan" as I call it.

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Hold on, someone explain to me why having alts is bad.

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21 hours ago, Erevorn said:

Send all new toons to Golden Valley at least until they get 20 in each body stat and major skills.

"WTS accounts with tutorial completed 5s"

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1 hour ago, Darmalus said:

Hold on, someone explain to me why having alts is bad.

 

There was a fairly large topic about it and I'm not the only with a similar mindset. I don't mean that all alts should be banned but they are pretty much being abused.

 

1 hour ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

"WTS accounts with tutorial completed 5s"

 

I doubt this would be a valid and profitable business.

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4 minutes ago, Erevorn said:

I doubt this would be a valid and profitable business.

If they're kicked out after a certain time someone would pay for an account that's already been kicked out, and if it doesn't most skills are pretty scalable, having 1 client 3 queuing through rock or iron will have about the same skill gain and having 12 clients 3 queuing through rock and iron takes about the same effort. Digging woodcutting and HFC are the only skills i can think of that'd require more than afk clicking to get to 20 that are necessary for a new acc.

But i'm not sure what this is going to solve, Players already have their alts, and will just irritate people that want to make alts for no other reason other than you don't like alts. Want to make a battery for your priest that's going to do nothing but stand next to him and pray 5x a day? Sorry you've gotta get 20 in a bunch of stats that you don't want before you can start your daily prayers.

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7 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

If they're kicked out after a certain time someone would pay for an account that's already been kicked out, and if it doesn't most skills are pretty scalable, having 1 client 3 queuing through rock or iron will have about the same skill gain and having 12 clients 3 queuing through rock and iron takes about the same effort. Digging woodcutting and HFC are the only skills i can think of that'd require more than afk clicking to get to 20 that are necessary for a new acc.

But i'm not sure what this is going to solve, Players already have their alts, and will just irritate people that want to make alts for no other reason other than you don't like alts. Want to make a battery for your priest that's going to do nothing but stand next to him and pray 5x a day? Sorry you've gotta get 20 in a bunch of stats that you don't want before you can start your daily prayers.

 

Have you read what the main reason for my proposition was?

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