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Wurmhole

A New Player Experience

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6 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Not bears, but you will do in wolves, wild cats, and other simple beasts. I recently did it with my wife's account.

I believe you can also use mushrooms instead of meat/fish now...?

 

But yes, as Finnn said, it used to be harder as the gear we got starting out was not as good as it is today. 

 

I've always found that initial struggle to be one of the most fun aspects of Wurm.  I think watering it down too much isn't going to help.  Some players will always find something to gripe about.

The upcoming tutorial upgrade is bound to help, not to mention all the youtube guides, and wurmpedia.  It's really not all that much of a mystery, it just requires a little elbow grease... everything in wurm does.  Used to be that getting any literature in the game box was a huge plus.  Something to read before bed!  It seems like now people expect they shouldn't have to read anything at all... when did that stop being fun?

 

If a player comes in expecting something similar to the last dozen clones he played... sure, they'll be disappointed.  Thank goodness for that imho.

 

I'm also still not convinced NewGuy is legit new and not someone looking to dumb down cooking.

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I read comments of mentoring, and paying players to help people more, and how the CA is too much. 

 

But going to the starter town and finding the newb who no offense couldn't be more than an hour from there is too much work? I'm not talking everyone. Just one person who was nearby at the time and willing to keep a new player around.

 

Say hey, I'm on the way to help (mentor step done) I can show you how to make fill in food item here, and you can keep working on your house while I travel there.  

 

Yea I guess we should hound the devs to do more right?

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It's very hard for a new player starting out alone, so you have two options, either go for it, mine the iron you need for tools, cut trees to make your first 1x1 shack for protection, forage so you can eat, train with practice dolls, or option two, join a village where you can get help with most of these stuff without having to bother to do everything by yourself so you can focus on a few aspects of the game you like.

 

The first few weeks were the most thrilling and exciting from my time in Wurm, since everything was new, unknown, dangerous, and it was what made me addicted to the game.

A lot of people ask for a system that makes it easier for new players to do stuff, but I don't agree, because everything starts with baby steps, and it's the only way for anyone to discover the game and enjoy it. I've seen many new players that left after the first shack, or joined a village and got bored after a few weeks of doing stuff, I've also seen people who bought accounts, so they don't have to grind, but also got bored.

 

This game isn't for everyone, it's grindy, takes a lot of time to accomplish anything and the gratification is calculated in months (yes meditation path switch, I'm looking at you). None of my friends, that i've played games with, liked it, and call me crazy for still playing it after so much time. It's also hard to explain to someone with a different mindset on gaming that this week you are mining an iron vein down, because it's in the path of your tunnel you are making, or that you are making coal piles to get ash, to make lye, to make concrete because you screwed up some parts of said tunnel..

 

In my opinion the focus should not be to make it easier for new players to get into the game, you will only lose them later on because you will hit the grind at some point or another, so why "trick" them into thinking it's not hard ? The focus should be on fixing bugs, improving UI, and advertising to the right people. The game is a grind at 1 skill, at 70 skill or at 95 skill, it only depends how much based on the tasks you set for yourself and the goals you want to accomplish.. 

 

PS: I'm open to become a mentor, I really like @Jaz's idea as a game mechanic, because I'm just not the type of person that camps starter towns.. Even better if it works without any reward, I wouldn't want it turned into a ponzi scheme..

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minecraft can be a tedious and long game especialy if you start building bigass things in there on survival. saying it's a kid's game is a bit farfetched. I know plenty of adults who play it and I've done projects there that took over 1 year what still is way longer then most wurm projects. So I have to disagree, crafting system is also more complicated since you actualy have to make forms to craft something. I feel hurt :(

 

I also agree with Niki on the fact that they need to do an overhaul on the fighting mechanics. Its way to static and the biggest turnoff for me. I like pvp in other games but not in thisone same goes for rifts. You just riding back and fort and spamming the autoattack button or if you get the more detailed view everything you do is still clicking on the arrows. This while everything sort of moves around in a non nanural way. Everything in this game got updated but the fighting still looks like a 90s rpg game.

 

This game is not hard like some people say it's just all about grinding. clicking that create button over and over again. People have to accept only few people like it and there will be a lot of hate towards so called grinding games. But what makes it fun is how rewarding it is in the end, and they should never change that.

Edited by shamflam
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I don't know but I had some experiments with my alt and it feels like cooking is broken for new players. I did some foraging/botanizing and tried to feed myself cooking in my bowl. I ended up making several breakfasts and the food bar went up extremely slowly. For example eating a full pumpkin+meat+oregano breakfast moved the food bar from 71% to 80% and I think that was my best performance. Other breakfasts gave 1% or something. On top of that, even the simplest combinations have way over 20 difficulty so HFC didn't move either.

 

Maybe there is an optimal way of starting to level up your cooking but to tell you the truth I gave up and stopped trying. Do you expect a newbie trying more to figure it out?

 

Ah and if you wonder how come a newbie decided to make bread out of the sudden, it was simply lore asking for it. If you are a bit unlucky, lore directs you to bread casserole.

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38 minutes ago, Erlindur said:

I don't know but I had some experiments with my alt and it feels like cooking is broken for new players. I did some foraging/botanizing and tried to feed myself cooking in my bowl. I ended up making several breakfasts and the food bar went up extremely slowly. For example eating a full pumpkin+meat+oregano breakfast moved the food bar from 71% to 80% and I think that was my best performance. Other breakfasts gave 1% or something. On top of that, even the simplest combinations have way over 20 difficulty so HFC didn't move either.

 

Maybe there is an optimal way of starting to level up your cooking but to tell you the truth I gave up and stopped trying. Do you expect a newbie trying more to figure it out?

 

Ah and if you wonder how come a newbie decided to make bread out of the sudden, it was simply lore asking for it. If you are a bit unlucky, lore directs you to bread casserole.

Good point on the lore.  That only occurred to me long after I posted my skepticism.

 

Kinda feels like it's always been that way on the percentage.  I think I remember stuffing my face with raw stuff at times just to make the bar move.  The plus side, I thought, was that it makes me cook more often and therefore raise my skill faster.

 

Cooking is definitely one of those things that needs some TLC in the new tutorial they're working on.  I don't think there's been an update to the tutorial since the cooking content was released.

Still holding onto the idea that it's mostly an educational problem, and not necessarily a systems failure.  Maybe I'm just stubborn though :).

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A friend who played Wurm before started again yesterday. And even though he already played for several months about a year ago he had trouble to get used to the clumsy UI again. That is definately something that needs a big overhaul... Took him a few minutes to figure out where the friendlist is for example. It's just all totally un-intuitive (if that is an english word).

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So fired up a new toon and spent some time building a small cart.

Many failures and "insert item" is useless, was getting annoying to say the least.

 

I can't help but think it would be beneficial to start all new players with 5 or 10 in basic skills, you know, woodcutting, digging, mining and maybe fighting.

 

HFC could probably do with a jump start to.

 

Perhaps even 2 game modes to pick from when you make you toon:

#1. Hardcore: start with nothing, skills at 1

#2. Head start: wc,digging, mine, hfc start at 5/10, current new player gear.

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Why would anybody pick hardcore if it's only crippling their char w/o any benefits at all?

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I wouldn't mind a mentor system. I know that from a couple other games and worked alright. Though it can be difficult to find someone in your timezone or whatever. 

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People are different. You can't lump them all into a few large categories and think up a solution based upon that. Some seem to need the guidance and reassurance of others and I think that is what you are addressing here, so for them maybe treating as if they are fragile and will abandon the game if any wrong words are said to them is the way to go. Still, they are then abdicating any responsibility for their own decisions and blaming others for whatever their particular dislikes are.

 

My preference is for the more independent player who can make their own decisions and do their own research through the available channels. Then if they last for a month or two I will have more of an interest in getting to know them. I find that investing too much time in someone initially is usually wasted effort, so I just observe what they are doing for a time period. Players who are gone within a week or two never to return are of little concern. Those who stick around are the more rare and valuable ones to start maintain a friendly relationship with.

 

=Ayes=

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what made me stick in Wurm for longer than any other game in my life was its difficulty. If this game wouldn't have been hard, I would have not stuck around. And honestly, unfortunately now it is not as hard as I would like

 

I started in a time when we had a shovel, a pickaxe, a short sword, a backpack, a compass and a steel and flint. If you died, you would have lost the compass and the backpack. That is it. No newbie buffs, no less aggression from mobs, no armor. Sure it was hard, but it was arguably the hook that made me stick around. That sense of accomplishment from doing even the simplest tasks. I remember building my first small cart, took a few hours to do...I went to sleep that night with a smile on my face. The countless unfinished items, the moving of dirt with rafts, standing on horses and the green outfits everyone was wearing.....

 

We have moved (sadly) away from those times. I would however push newcomers to join villages, create communities and long standing friendships that will then be there during their wurm life, rather than the 'i can do it on my own'  persona.

 

Back then it was basically impossible to survive alone, now - entirely possible. The (MAJOR) difference is that back then, the local communities and villages were acting as the CAs today..but if you are in the middle of nowhere by yourself and have no clue....sure you will need CAs to explain even the basic things. I feel, although appealing to 'live alone in the middle of the mountains' is not sustainable, and most of those people will sooner or later leave wurm. But someone that has dozens of friends around, friends forged through PVP (on pvp servers) or by living in the same community (mind you alliance chat, is not the same as being in the house next door) or trading with others will more than likely remain for much longer in Wurm.

 

Plus, the easier the game gets, the more characters that want instant gratification will join. I will argue that this is very damaging for the 'core' of wurm players, those that cherish the fundamental values of wurm.

 

TL;DR: I would fully support an increase in the game's difficulty while at the same time the game/tutorial/staff actively recommending forming of larger communities/villages in order to mitigate the difficulty of doing things

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*cough cough*

 

Send all new toons to Golden Valley at least until they get 20 in each body stat and major skills. The alt abuse problem would be stopped (not fixed however), and the newbies would have a place to learn the game since you guys made the tutorial non-obligatory. If they manage to stay on GV for a week, two or three they get kicked out into the real (but virtual) world. That ofcourse after stating in the very beginning of account creation that nothing you will make on Golden Valley will ever be able to go with you (maybe except potential rares etc).

 

Let's stop fooling one another, the current "thing" that happens on toon creation is basically an alt factory so you can more easily and quickly get your new grinder to your deed. New players wouldn't mind Golden Valley because they're new and don't know what used to be there, what used to be the tutorial, what's out there in the freedom isles or the epic cluster or whatever. Think fresh.

 

And make GV full prem but with no in-game coins whatsoever. Fully disabled. Only when the newbies decide to move on and leave GV they become non-prem again and all their skills and stats get reset to 20 (about which they've been warned on account creation) and start over. This encourages them to buy premium and ensures their stay since they already know by now what Wurm is about. It's not like giving us large storage units will make new people stay. 

 

Recreating the early game experience and repurposing GV is a big step, but a necessary one if you want more than 400 players in Wurm each day.

 

Problem(s) no more, end of discussion.

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The initial learning curve is steep, and it takes a certain type of player to stick it out.  The starter towns could be more helpful for sure, tho - there should be (well sign-posted) public clay and iron nearby (make the iron low ql, so it's only really useful to newbies), plus a reasonable source of water and lumber.  This is readily achievable without any code changes - it'd just require some terraforming and permission setting from a GM, plus a periodic check that the resources haven't been depleted going forward.

 

I like the idea of starting some skills at something higher than 1, though.  Even starting at 5 won't make much difference long-term, but it would make newbie life so much less frustrating.  From memory, I think there are already a few skills that start above 1 - unarmed fighting, maybe?

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4 hours ago, Finnn said:

Why would anybody pick hardcore if it's only crippling their char w/o any benefits at all?

Why would anybody choose hard in any game if theres an easy or normal... I once went onto a new island with little to nothing and really enjoyed hunting around for the basic materials. All of the joy was then ruined when i found 1 iron vein, had all the crude tools, and started siting in a 1x1 house with my cow and with nothing to do but grind. The survival part of wurm is pretty enjoyable. but it doesnt last long. Would last longer if we could collide into trees though ;) 

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I see Wurm as a player-run game. We shape the landscape, we create communities, we find our own missions to complete. We encourage ourselves with the iron will and we reward ourselves with the sweetness of satisfaction. 

We, the existing playerbase, mostly know and understand all of this. But the new player who has no prior connection to this game, does not. 

 

Sure, the devs can do several improvements, which we've all been jabbering about for ages, to help and encourage newcomers. But why should we, the real wurmians, count on anyone else to fix our problems? Yup, OUR problems, because it's our world.

 

I know of many active player communities, villages, alliances, where any new player is welcome. They're given tools and weapons, they're introduced to local mines and forests, they're given all the (im)possible answers, they're offered "grunt" jobs which pay real silvers. Some villages even have custom quests, assignments which help them "find the questions" because sometimes the new player doesn't even know what to ask. 
I admire those players who take their time to run those communities. Because the hard truth is - most of the new players don't stick around and it's depressing. All the time and resources invested are lost.

But even if one out of ten stays then it's a wonderful reward and worth trying again!

We need more of those communities! :)

 

Now I get to my suggestion. 

Why do we actually have the "starter" towns?

Why don't we have all new players spawn in those active villages? 1

We're talking about mentoring and more CA's and better tutorials. Wouldn't this all be covered if our NewGuy had Fraeya or Aniceset or Qwizat in the local chat? (I put them as examples off the top of my head and Xanadu is the best server :p)

And there's no other reward required. A new face in the community is the best reward to those great people. 

 

 

1- Yes, it may need some kind of unholy GM supervision from time to time and the proper mechanics need more discussions, but food for thought.

 

 

Edited by Shmeric
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On 6/12/2017 at 9:51 AM, Erevorn said:
On 6/12/2017 at 7:15 AM, Erevorn said:

*cough cough*

 

Send all new toons to Golden Valley at least until they get 20 in each body stat and major skills. The alt abuse problem would be stopped (not fixed however), and the newbies would have a place to learn the game since you guys made the tutorial non-obligatory. If they manage to stay on GV for a week, two or three they get kicked out into the real (but virtual) world. That ofcourse after stating in the very beginning of account creation that nothing you will make on Golden Valley will ever be able to go with you (maybe except potential rares etc).

 

Let's stop fooling one another, the current "thing" that happens on toon creation is basically an alt factory so you can more easily and quickly get your new grinder to your deed. New players wouldn't mind Golden Valley because they're new and don't know what used to be there, what used to be the tutorial, what's out there in the freedom isles or the epic cluster or whatever. Think fresh.

 

And make GV full prem but with no in-game coins whatsoever. Fully disabled. Only when the newbies decide to move on and leave GV they become non-prem again and all their skills and stats get reset to 20 (about which they've been warned on account creation) and start over. This encourages them to buy premium and ensures their stay since they already know by now what Wurm is about. It's not like giving us large storage units will make new people stay. 

 

Recreating the early game experience and repurposing GV is a big step, but a necessary one if you want more than 400 players in Wurm each day.

 

Problem(s) no more, end of discussion.

This is an idea I can fully support. I don't like any ideas of giving away premium or giving more to newbs than we already have, but this would be great AND we could do to volunteer mentoring thing there.

 

Let them stay until they have carp/fighting/mining/other stuff? to 20 and then set them loose. They can prem up and keep their over 20 skills when they leave, or not. (Though I would like to see them be able to take one empty large cart as that's the worst thing a newb has to make.)

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OR quit babying the noobs and make wurm harder, stop the account sales because its stupid and destroying the game (still steadily declining because old players are leaving and new ones wont last when they realize wurm is pay to win)

 

the thing i was most proud of as a noob was surviving with nothing, it was hard, but once i was stable enough to actually grind a little bit i was impressed with wurm and how it really was a challenge

 

my suggestion:

reset starter tools back to carver, hatchet, pick, shovel, med wood shield (10ql) and shortsword 5ql...

stop the account selling!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wurm is the ultimate of pay to win games, you dont even have to login to wurm once to buy a top account, just make a wurm forums account and buy a top account from someone else... its frustrating and a huge slap in the face for people who are proud that they created and built their own toon.

this pay to win mode makes pvp beyond a joke... no wonder freedomers dont want to go to a pvp server with their hard earned toons, that they created and skilled up, just to get smashed by some guy who's been playing 2 weeks and bought a top pvp account....

 

if you want quality players, you need to stop lowering your standards... if you just want more players... by all means keep lowering your standards and turning wurm into minecrap 

at the rate we are babying noobs we might as well start them at 20 on all skills now and add 30ql file, chisel, hammer, mallet, pelt, whetstone to their starter tool list... because we wouldnt want them to quit

Edited by Evilreaper

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On 6/12/2017 at 4:49 AM, Ayes said:

People are different. You can't lump them all into a few large categories and think up a solution based upon that. Some seem to need the guidance and reassurance of others and I think that is what you are addressing here, so for them maybe treating as if they are fragile and will abandon the game if any wrong words are said to them is the way to go. Still, they are then abdicating any responsibility for their own decisions and blaming others for whatever their particular dislikes are.

 

My preference is for the more independent player who can make their own decisions and do their own research through the available channels. Then if they last for a month or two I will have more of an interest in getting to know them. I find that investing too much time in someone initially is usually wasted effort, so I just observe what they are doing for a time period. Players who are gone within a week or two never to return are of little concern. Those who stick around are the more rare and valuable ones to start maintain a friendly relationship with.

 

=Ayes=

 

Agreed. Which is why I lean towards the living, breathing starter towns idea.  I think some people are conflating make-it-easier-to-learn with make-the-game-easier. They are not the same thing. One is desirable, imo.  The other is not.

 

Some people prefer to get the feel of a new game on their own before they jump in and start forming relationships with other players while they still don't even know yet if they're going to like the game.  Not everyone is a social butterfly, just as not everyone is fiercely independent. A great many fall in the middle.

 

A living, breathing, game-run starter town would provide those types with a place to 'do their own thing' so to speak, without feeling like they've made some kind of commitment to a player-made newbie village.  In their first days they will not know what those newbie villages really are, nor the reputations & good intentions of those running them. All they'll know at first is that it's run by other players rather than the game.  While some are ok with that, others won't want to get involved with anything before they even know if they want to play.  Currently, there are no newbie-friendly options for those types.

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On 6/11/2017 at 5:41 AM, Brew said:

But going to the starter town and finding the newb who no offense couldn't be more than an hour from there is too much work? I'm not talking everyone. Just one person who was nearby at the time and willing to keep a new player around.

Say hey, I'm on the way to help (mentor step done) I can show you how to make fill in food item here, and you can keep working on your house while I travel there.

 

This is the problem with Wurm having 19 spawn locations for new players on Freedom alone.

I would be more than willing to help new players if they had a single spawn point on 1 server in Freedom...I'm sure many others are the same.

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8 hours ago, Evilreaper said:

OR quit babying the noobs and make wurm harder, stop the account sales because its stupid and destroying the game (still steadily declining because old players are leaving and new ones wont last when they realize wurm is pay to win)

 

the thing i was most proud of as a noob was surviving with nothing, it was hard, but once i was stable enough to actually grind a little bit i was impressed with wurm and how it really was a challenge

 

my suggestion:

reset starter tools back to carver, hatchet, pick, shovel, med wood shield (10ql) and shortsword 5ql...

stop the account selling!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wurm is the ultimate of pay to win games, you dont even have to login to wurm once to buy a top account, just make a wurm forums account and buy a top account from someone else... its frustrating and a huge slap in the face for people who are proud that they created and built their own toon.

this pay to win mode makes pvp beyond a joke... no wonder freedomers dont want to go to a pvp server with their hard earned toons, that they created and skilled up, just to get smashed by some guy who's been playing 2 weeks and bought a top pvp account....

 

if you want quality players, you need to stop lowering your standards... if you just want more players... by all means keep lowering your standards and turning wurm into minecrap 

at the rate we are babying noobs we might as well start them at 20 on all skills now and add 30ql file, chisel, hammer, mallet, pelt, whetstone to their starter tool list... because we wouldnt want them to quit

... this is not a suggestion to keep players... Did you look at the OP? we are losing new players because the start of the game is crap. Some people only feel the game is worth playing when they have a higher level character, and you want to push those people away? How many gamers do you think like clicking and waiting out there? People play games to enjoy themselves, When i met wurm a few years ago i wanted a challenge in a video game. Now im just bored as hell and want to enjoy myself, and im able to kinda do that with the skills i have leveled since then. but new players could only run from the strong, wait for the materials, and sleep in a 1x1 house. (Or be given everything in a town, get bored and quit). Not saying the game isnt enjoyable, im just saying its not to the majority.

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Perhaps part of the solution would be to flag one of the starter towns somewhere as the 'standard newbie' town, so those who wish to help newer players can focus their efforts in the location most likely to have newbies wanting help.  New players who want to be self-sufficient or figure it out on their own, still have the option of going somewhere else.

 

If you know nothing about Wurm, it's really hard to pick a starting town, even with the standard advice of 'go Xanadu'.  Some actual sign-posting would help a lot here, and not just 'X is the biggest, Y is the newest, Z is 4 times bigger than A'.

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New players make great slaves free labor.

 

Though on Chaos the spies worked just as well.

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On 6/9/2017 at 2:52 PM, Yiraia said:

^Idk who said this, but if they had meant it, they don't know what a hard and challenging game is. when you have a 6% chance to craft something and you press 1 button over and over again... its not a challenge.

The 'challenge' is to know this is the same as real life, that nothing is going to given to you, and you have to work for it.

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On 6/10/2017 at 4:05 AM, Erlindur said:

I'm not sure but maybe we have something so changed that it becomes broken for new players. For my first year in game I was almost exclusively fed myself with the simple pumpkin+meat meal. It was lousy on nutrition but I never had a problem filling my food bar. I tried the same meal with an alt and ate the ql1 meal. The food bar barely moved after finishing the whole meal.

Maybe the cooking update chanced stuff in a way that makes it impossible for a new player to feed himself. Or maybe there is some other very low ql food a newbie can make and at least fill the food bar. If there is such a food then it would be nice to have him prepare it in the tutorial and all people in CA_Help know about it.

 

 

While working on a guide for nomadic players on my WU server, I discovered the amazing benefits of spit roasted pig, sheep/ram, or rat.  Each begins with an unbutchered corpse and a branch, and is cooked over a campfire.  

 

Large rat gives you roasted rat-on-a-stick

Pig gives you roasted hog roast

Sheep or ram gives you roasted lamb roast

 

They are very easy to make, and require not even a pottery bowl, just a branch and some kindling, but they give exceptional nutrition for a newbie meal. The creatures are even easy for a newbie to kill.  

 

Edited by Batta
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