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punishlife

I need you..... to tell me some info!

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22 hours ago, Skyfalls said:

I stay firm with the old prices-stick with them and encourage others to do the same.

 

So, basically you want a co-operative monopoly economic structure? Where all the sellers collude with one another in order to maintain an artificially high price?

Sounds like a great proposition for the buyers!

 

Prices fall over time, in the real world and in Wurm.

The only time this isn't the case is in a monopoly situation where you can completely control the supply of a good...something that used to be done in Wurm with Scale/Drake. I'm sure we are still feeling the effects of it.

Luckily there really aren't any barriers to entry, other than time spent skilling.

 

Actually, I think moon metals, tomes and other rift/unique rewards may still be monopolized/artificially increased quite highly.

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On 2017-06-02 at 1:09 PM, Skyfalls said:

You still have to include the fail rate for such items as mortar-while it is easy to make for a high skilled person its not for a new person starting out.

 

It doesnt take that high masonry to get to a point where you rarely fail at making mortar. Of course if you compare two players, one with level 1 masonry making mortar and the other with level 1 stonecutting cutting bricks, the brick maker will fail less. However this evens out by around 30 skill which doent take very long at all. So the argument that only super high skilled veterans can make mortar effectively isnt true.

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So one person has willingly joined the team (and i'm going to coerce a couple of others) would anyone else like to join and with some helpful info? :)

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17 hours ago, Outlaw said:

Prices fall over time, in the real world and in Wurm.

 

 

where i need to move to have that?

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16 hours ago, tamat said:

where i need to move to have that?

 

Think about it in terms of non-essentials rather than stuff you need every day (like food).  Computer games are a good example - the price for a given game will tend to drop over time, and games companies make money by bringing out new games, which people don't have, and thus will pay for.  Wurm doesn't have the constant influx of new things (or, at least, they don't come in fast enough to make a significant difference, although the quick-off-the-mark merchants do make money on new things coming in - affinity-to-order meals and new sprouts for example), so the market's downward trend is very noticable.  The number of producers grows faster than the number of consumers, leading to deflation.  Real-world governments work hard to avoid this situation in entire economies, since having a bunch of industries shutting down en masse is generally bad.

 

Regarding price changes, I used to sell imps, but with the prices as they are now, it's not worth my while, so I don't bother.  Everyone has a price point at which the expenditure of time vs the reward is not worth it.  As the price drops, more providers will drop out of the market, until (in theory) the price point stabilises where supply = demand; it doesn't really seem that's happened as yet, for most of the wurm markets.

 

I still question whether this project is feasible or useful, but I wish you well, and I look forward to being proved wrong :)

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Hmm-well-fact is -prices existed for various things in Wurm at a set price for a long time with very little problems-no so called conspiracies for monopolies or anything-mainly to protect sellers AND buyers. especially the newer players whose main income if they are making bricks and mortar.That way they are not ripped off when they try to sell when they are new to the game and later on they can pay it forward when buying from a new person later.

  That is main reason why prices should be stable at a certain rate and should be protected by ALL!

 

So please-when someone new is just starting and wants to sell their bricks and mortar, dont mock them for their prices being too high and try to low ball them for a deal-just pay them them their price and let them pay it forward later. Be nice:)

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the only valid pc you will get is 10i per action, and people even do bulk discounts or make it 6-9i to make their price more appealing. You aren't gonna get far finding pc's for rarities and enchants. Some people are doing 1c per power until 70 for coc and woa, others say its around 40c for 70. Im currently working on a priest and plan on selling 70 power for about 20c, or any bulk equivalent (but 50% more expensive so like 30c of bricks).

 

If you start listing prices and making it known, i think you will most likely cause a hard deflation.

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The 6i dirt.. isn't dug from the ground.. but rather created from thin air with...wont mention the convertion rate.. it's both fast and cheap to do.. and that reflects on the price... 

Plus.. it's probably a problem to keep large amounts around.. and that leads to selling it dirt cheap on the market to free up the space.

10i still seems to hold for per/action payments.

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Having done my fair share of bulk trading, I see two specific problems with holding to a fixed rate of 10i/action:

 

1. Not all actions are equal in length.

Levelling to collect dirt (regardless of shovel ql or enchantment) always takes 6sec/1dirt, and stamina drain has no effect on timer length. With a high-ql high-woa shovel and decent digging skill and body characteristics, you can get the timer down to 3-ish sec per digging action (the same holds true for mining). It's not hard then to see why there's oversupply of dirt, shards, and metal lumps on the market.

Other actions have longer timers, are affected by stamina drain, and cannot be sped up by increasing tool quality or by woa enchantments because they use 'hand' or no tool at all (combining arrow shafts and arrow heads for example).

 

1. Not all actions are equal in difficulty.

Some actions require much higher skill to reach a decent success rate (making mortar, arrowheads, and arrows are some that I have experience with).

 

In real-life free-market economies these translate into the following observations:

 

1. Menial workers aren't paid for the number of actions they perform, but for their time.

Whether they're working in a factory that makes boxes or one that makes cars, where the time required to make each unit is vastly different, they'll be paid a comparable hourly wage.

 

2. Skilled workers (insofar as their skills are in demand) are paid more than unskilled ones.

Skilled workers can either do things unskilled workers can't, and/or they are more productive and are less likely to waste materials.

 

The relatively low price for dirt and high price for mortar, in terms of the 10i/action rate, are natural consequences of these principles in a free market. As others have alluded, the Wurm economy can never be like a real one for several reasons. One major reason is the fact that toons live forever and skills are never forgotten. This, coupled with the fact that new players are always the minority, means that the traditional pyramid distribution is turned upside down in Wurm: there's a huge number of high-skilled toons relative to low-skilled ones; and a huge number of producers relative to consumers.

 

It's hard to see a way around this. Most changes to correct the oversupply that is driving down prices would make the game less fun or drive away established players:

  • Make crop/hunting/fishing yields much lower. In real pre-industrial societies, over 90% of the population are farmers. In Wurm, 1s worth of food can feed a toon virtually forever and 1s can be found in your first day of foraging.
  • Make it impossible to store food and many other goods indefinitely in FSBs and BSBs. Almost everything in real life rots after time and needs replacement. Not so in Wurm, where vegetables grown 50 years ago are still perfectly fresh if stored in an FSB. Realistic rates of decay (faster for veg, slower for grains and some processed foods like flour) would stimulate demand. Same if planks were to moulder and nails were to rust.
  • Make skills subject to decay if they're not used (perhaps with a 3x regain rate, like after death). In real life, we forget much of what we don't use. People really can't know it all and do it all, at least not at any given moment. Market forces slowly draw people into high-demand trades and out of low-demand ones. But switching trades comes at a cost of forgetting some of what you've learned, so the decision isn't taken lightly.
  • Make toons grow older and die (permanently) of old age. Some characteristics slowly drop after a certain age, such as body strength, and at some point the toon is simply no more. This creates a reason for new low-skilled toons to be 'born' even with a stable player base and helps maintain the natural pyramid shape of a healthy economy.

I can't see any of these changes being popular and I'm not sure if I'd enjoy Wurm myself if they were implemented. But without them, it seems inevitable that prices for goods will continue to drop. Prices aren't even corrected when fed-up players quit – high-skilled toons, non-decaying bulk items, and high-ql tools etc. are simply passed on to other players and the general oversupply of everything – from skills, to bulks, rares, and enchantments – continues.

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Skills and wealth(stored goods) are what keeps people around.. one of the latest changes that everyone welcomed were "decorations" taking no decay ondeed, speaks on itself.. what the community likes or wants.

Making things harder to make or cost more.. to make/get could somewhat fix some of that oversupply, even tho... some currently sit on tons of ql90/+ items and crops/etc.. materials. Solution is somewhere inbetween, not too punishing bills.. but definitely not decaying of skill and production, it's work done already.. You do not return to wood league in mobas once you get to diamond rank because .. oh well there are too many diamonds.. let's reset your rank to keep it 'fair'.

Some new game was about to intoduce that player death and continuation of the cycle .. in the same family with another char.. but that's ****, ask 10-20-50-100+ wurm players why they like the game or play it.. you'll get different answers, ask yourself why is that. It offers more than 1 thing to do, and tinkering with core foundation isn't the smart way to 'fix' anything with established player base.

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Whilst i have seen some interesting ideas (thank you for your input) i must remind you, this is just a guide to help new players get an understanding of the in game trading, we won't be imposing a standard of prices onto others, but merely reflect what has trended and currently is (if possible) all whilst reassuring that, its down to you what you buy/sell at. These are just tips, hits and some info, nothing that will impact the economy as its a free market

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