Has anyone noticed we lost 800 players since the start of the year?

[lawurm 337]

10 hours ago, Reylaark said:

 

I'm not sure if that meshes with their metrics on player retention though...?  Based on what Budda said, I have to wonder if an advertising blitz would do more harm than good right now. 

If a lot of people aren't making past the tutorial, then bringing people in just to watch them walk away seems like it would do more harm than good.  You'd then have to later try and get them to give it another chance which I think would be harder.

I think their plan to modernize the UI, make the tutorial more interactive and game-like, etc. is good.  When they see some positive growth retaining the players that do give it a shot, then advertise like mad...

thoughts?

 

Probably right and i would not expect an advertising campaign to fit in with player retention mechanisms, you know the lead a horse to water thing , not much good if the water is salty.

I keep forgetting that a new player can't compare today's wurm with the one some of us were playing 5 or more years ago, they will see wurm at face value as it is now and compare it to other games they know.

 

Definitely a huge amount to consider over all, the tutorial being the first thing you see is definitely worthy of attention as is the UI.

 

 

 

[Chikiza 53]

these "lost 800 player"..... i wouldnt wonder me when these 800 players already sitting in wurm unlimited and having their own server or jumping around on sklotopolis. 

[JakeRivers 2,921]

On 6/5/2017 at 5:05 PM, Odynn said:

Lately, the amount of griefing and toxicity is reaching new heights... where went those golden rules to settle away from others players, talk with your neighbors, work with the community when a few can change the face of the game (read landscape) permanently, against everyone opinions and have nothing done against them... or the changes they did. Where went the rule of "if the intent is to harm, then it's griefing" when you have people deeding right next to you to strip the land bare and mine a huge hole in it. Why some behavior must be accepted, like the fact someone destroyed the community spirit behind server wide spells (RoS / Yellowfingers) because they can and there is no rules against it.

 

This is a sandbox.

 

Why should someone not be able to terraform there deed as they see fit? You don't like it, tough, really bothers you? Move.

 

For the server wide spells there is already a mechanic in place to make it hard to solo ninja it. If someone has the resources whether its there own accounts or a large group of friends and they want to do the cast, why should they be asking anyone about it or even take the time to inform people. You want to do the cast, be better organized.

 

Maybe stop telling people how they should play and practice what you preach, I have a friend on deli who recently had his mine which extended into his perimeter collapsed for a highway re-route. No one bothered to contact him to inform him of the change or asked if he would mind having his mine collapsed and reworked, I am sure if it was your deed you would of been all over it.

 

 

 

 

[Corsan 199]

44 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

This is a sandbox.

Being a sandbox doesn't mean people have a right to throw sand in other's eyes. Many children (See: Players) can get along in a sandbox, but the parents (See: Moderators/devs) promptly show up and shut down behavior that is dangerous for one party or another.

Back when I was younger in real life, my brother was playing with kids in a school playground and a kid threw sand in his face (Back when sand was actually still allowed on playgrounds and we didn't have all the safety foam stuff they have at playgrounds nowadays so people don't get hurt.) and it got in his eye and scratched his eye a bit, he spent a few days recovering from that and is lucky he didn't lose his eye-sight.

Is this really what you're asking to support on a game? Damaging behaviors that can create long lasting harm?

I personally remember the days back a few years ago where people would set up a day/specific hour for those 'Right of' spells and people would purposely log in just to participate, or people would sail from other servers just to get in on them. Nowadays, they go off at such random times and nobody even mentions they are planning one, and only a few people get in on them. I personally never participated because I'm a mag follower and therefore get nothing anyway, but this used to be a community thing until a couple years back when certain people started to abuse it and nobody stepped up and stopped it.

We're starting to see a lot more 'This is good for me, but @#*$) everyone else' type attitudes in reference to a lot of things on here...

 

On 6/5/2017 at 3:46 AM, Milkdrop said:

I'm living right next to you... my cave is crowded with bugs, lava spiders, rats, etc. as soon as the deeded area drops off - when I exit my tunnel to the east of the mountain towards my second deed which is just the next tile on the map I have tons of mobs as well, trolls, spiders, bears, wolfes and a mix of non-hostiles.

 

Either you have really bad luck or I don't know, but i'm your neighbor and I have nothing to complain about mobs anymore.

Even while my main deed occupies every possibly useful tile I still have the odd wolf stray onto it and their only spawn location is a 1-2 tile wide border to the west of my deed thats pretty steep down before the sea starts.

I have the sea on 2 sides and a huge steep mountain on the other 2 so I can not expect much to spawn there and thats ok for me, thus I cross my tunnel to the hunting grounds.

 

If you want a monster every second tile you set foot on, well.... good luck helping the newbies again who die left and right just trying to leave a starter town.

 

On the other hand, one worthwhile complain about mobs is how they all pile up on mountain sides - I guess (hope) thats fixed with their new AI or so then.

If you're referring to that tunnel that used to go all the way north through the server height mountain and came out to the northeast to a road that goes towards Esteron, then yes, that area is doing a little bit better because...guess what...It's north. And the higher north you go on the server, the more mobs you find.

We both live pretty much attached to the side of a giant server height mountain and therefore there's not a lot we can do about server spawning (See : Creating more spawning areas) down here, but the difference is...mountain lions used to SPAWN off mountains...back on Pristine I used to live on the side of a mountain on a island (Already a small biome...since there was no bridges during that time and a lot of animals I wanted couldn't swim..and I couldn't land-bridge because the spot between my place/mainland was a main trading route which couldn't be sealed or a lot of community griping would've happened. We'd asked for animal crates to be added at that point...after loading feature was created.) but I had a constant flow of lions charging down that mountain until they started to fiddle with the spawning mechanics to try and fix the other issues.

(There was a massive herds problem...there was locales where you could find giant puddles of all kinds of mobs..like bison, unicorns, deer, cows, bulls, etc along with a few hostiles mixed in because this was before they added predator/prey mechanic...all herded up on a coast somewhere...people were complaining about that back then...so they tried to 'fix' things. Whatever they did for a 'fix' back then dried up mobs altogether. After that 'fix' I never saw any mobs coming down my mountainside...and on a small server it was OK because I could just sail over to the mainland and go look around/hunt...)

I posted about it in a thread after that, and took 3 way screenshots (Showing west,northwest,north,northeast,east) off my deed to show the difference all the way back then, which were blatantly ignored. I've since, repeatedly linked 3 way screenshots in the current Xanadu mob spawn thing, each time showing that nothing has changed...there's just no mobs to be seen at all, anywhere.

The difference? On Pristine, I lived north of the halfway line of the server, on the southwest hook of the horseshoe shaped island. Therefore, I was still 'north' and should have still had mobs...according to the hypothesis that floats around saying mobs are in the north. I barely ever saw a single mob there again. (I believe there was one seal and a minor patrol of something that randomly happened by..but otherwise...nothing).

Here on Xanadu? I barely if ever see anything at all. Same concept as over there. Yes, we live in the total south, and from what I've heard, server 'polling' (Think of it like a scan, where it checks the state of stuff on the server.) starts in the top left of the server map and scans in a line to the east, then drops down and does another line and another line down the server, until it gets to the bottom. You and I reside in one of the last places the server checks...the very south-east of the server...so by then, it's probably already spawned almost everything it has remaining.

As I've already stated, I don't want 'a mob on every tile I set foot on', I just want to be able to occasionally step out my gates and be able to skill a bit without having to travel over half an hour/an hour just to even find something to skill on. Yes, I'm surrounded on 3 sides by water (With a mini land bridge connection to my gate), and attached to a mountain on the remaining spot. I won't get a whole lot. But that shouldn't mean I see NOTHING. Saying this is just my own bad luck or my own fault, when it's the game's problem? Really? Seriously? That's what you're going to go with? I created the game's problem? OK. /deadpansarcasm

There's a reason the game loses people...

[Angelklaine 4,266]

3 hours ago, Corsan said:

Being a sandbox doesn't mean people have a right to throw sand in other's eyes. Many children (See: Players) can get along in a sandbox, but the parents (See: Moderators/devs) promptly show up and shut down behavior that is dangerous for one party or another.

 

...
 

No.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_video_game_terms#Sandbox_game

 

https://www.techopedia.com/definition/3952/sandbox-gaming

 

By definition, a Sandbox game is a game where developers do not intervene directly with the actions of the players. Sure, some moderation is required to prevent hostilities between people, but if I plop down a deed and want to make a pit to put my cows in, I damn well be allowed to because its a sandbox. Dont want me doing it next to you? Deed the spot then.

 

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot have a Sandbox game that has a multitude of "common courtesy" rules that prevent people from doing what the game mechanics allow for. Sure, no one is going to like you if you go around making atrocious looking deeds next to theirs, and the community itself is likely to shun you, but the moment the rules reach a point where I am not allowed to do what I pay for (i.e. sandbox), then it simply stops being a sandbox.

 

The developers are not required, expected, or supposed to control the interactions between players, other than blatant harrasment or griefing. They are not Wurm nannies to use at your beck and call when someone says a mean word. You, as player, are supposed to handle that yourself. Make friends, form alliances, buy land, build fences and houses, tend plots, or simply move elsewhere. This is a sandbox. The classification itself should tell you that you are supposed to be left to your own devices, to play as you want. It is not a box full of sand for children to play with the supervision of their parents. We are not kids, and Wurm is not full of sand.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Angelklaine

[JakeRivers 2,921]

Well said

[nicedreams 1,035]

25 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

Well said

 

Agreed.

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

and Wurm is not full of sand.

 

 

Give me 3 weeks, an army of griefers and a bunch of bug exploits.

[Corsan 199]

3 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

No.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_video_game_terms#Sandbox_game

 

https://www.techopedia.com/definition/3952/sandbox-gaming

 

By definition, a Sandbox game is a game where developers do not intervene directly with the actions of the players. Sure, some moderation is required to prevent hostilities between people, but if I plop down a deed and want to make a pit to put my cows in, I damn well be allowed to because its a sandbox. Dont want me doing it next to you? Deed the spot then.

 

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot have a Sandbox game that has a multitude of "common courtesy" rules that prevent people from doing what the game mechanics allow for. Sure, no one is going to like you if you go around making atrocious looking deeds next to theirs, and the community itself is likely to shun you, but the moment the rules reach a point where I am not allowed to do what I pay for (i.e. sandbox), then it simply stops being a sandbox.

 

The developers are not required, expected, or supposed to control the interactions between players, other than blatant harrasment or griefing. They are not Wurm nannies to use at your beck and call when someone says a mean word. You, as player, are supposed to handle that yourself. Make friends, form alliances, buy land, build fences and houses, tend plots, or simply move elsewhere. This is a sandbox. The classification itself should tell you that you are supposed to be left to your own devices, to play as you want. It is not a box full of sand for children to play with the supervision of their parents. We are not kids, and Wurm is not full of sand.

 

I know what a sandbox game is.

The problem is, with Freedom servers (PvE), you do agree to a certain subset of rules that detract from the supposed 'free form'/'do-as-you-want' play. We're 'not allowed' to 'deal with' the players who grief/harass us, or we become the 'griefer'. I personally had someone hounding me for months on end, when I would report their behavior, nothing was done, yet when they would report me, I would have someone (A GM/CM/Someone on call) all up in my grill doing stuff to me/saying I wasn't allowed to do stuff (For example...I was told by a GM I'm not allowed to work anything within 15 tiles of a specific deed after a specific situation.)...while preventing actions (They stopped my character's movement and then forced me to sit there explaining what was going on, all the while the person who'd been griefing me was sitting there RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME AND THEM destroying the work I'd done/covering up what I'd just removed with an understanding/agreement between myself and local neighbors who had told me they owned said land and we'd both agreed to do the work. Perhaps said other neighbor was lying, but this was all with supposed community approval.).

Heck, the first ever drama I had in this game was over whether it was allowed to dig some dirt within 15 tiles of a deed perimeter (I counted.)...which if you look at the current game rules, would have been allowed. Nobody owned the land. Yet this turned into a cascade of abusive behavior from a group of individuals on the game, and people want to run around bragging about the much vaunted 'community' on here?

I could argue there is no true sandbox out there at all, but for purposes of this discussion, Wurm technically qualifies.

If not for a couple of long time players stepping up in the past and helping me (As they had had previous run-ins with the same folks and had a grudge against them)...I would probably have just quit and left for good. Instead of paying for all these years of play time here. One of them did goad me into getting enough fight skill to be able to take on the Spirit Templar (I'd been put on Kill-on-Sight list), and I finally achieved it and was able to kill their guard and just chuckle at them. That was an achievement in my eyes. He suggested I do stuff like put BSB's with messages on their token also to goad them...so I did. (At this point, I didn't care anymore, they'd been atrocious to me, and they deserved everything that would happen to them. In this situation, you could say I was the aggressor, but they had started it all with me to begin with, so it was technically their own behavior that lead to it.)

By your own definition, I should have had the rights to do what I did, not been treated like I was someone who was 'causing a problem'.

This was a person who owned a big deed of their own almost 250 some tiles away, but they'd had an alliance mate who'd quit almost 2.5 years earlier with a full size deed on the coast that they/their alliance mates had been putting coin into the coffers of...for years hoping they'd come back, but they never did. When I saw the deed shrink (Because they'd stopped putting as much coin in/were deciding to take it over/turn it into an extra side deed/lowering the size so as to not have to pay as much)...I'd started removing some of the godawful looking grey slabbing they'd done around it. (I had the deed up on the mountain that looked down over it...it's what I'd been having to stare at for nearly a year...with no action at all going on in the deed at all, as nobody actually even went there/lived there/did any maintenance of any kind.) I'd been in long term discussions with another local neighbor who was in that alliance (Or said he was), who'd bought up another of the deeds over there when the people who originally brought me out that way had quit, who'd said he was also purchasing that max size deed on the coast and was going to basically run a big conglomeration there...but he eventually after all of this drama, sold it all, and packed up and moved to Xanadu (I sold him the knarr to do so.) and he proceeded to run a tiny deed there but ended up making one of those portals to go to PvP map (epic?)...and I never really spoke to him much again. He(Or his wife's account at least) was still playing when I came back, but I didn't feel like bothering him when I came back.

 

After another bit of drama with another of their alliance mates, I spent 3 weeks of my own time to repair a location/situation. No thanks was ever given. One of their own alliance mates did the same thing I'd done there, and I just laughed...partly in sadness, and partly as a 'Haha, take that you jerks!'.

So basically, I'm proof that this 'do as you want' sandbox mentality and moderation don't work hand in hand...I paid for this game, and someone on staff(A volunteer?) wasted my time on a game I was paying for....multiple times...why is that OK? Why am I also not allowed to mention it? (One of those rules.) This game stinks of corruption/heavy-handedness. I've discussed it multiple times in frustration with a few people...how it's a real fun game, and I enjoy the overall game itself but there's some major problems with it...and I've pointed out that I would never recommend it in it's current state to someone without some major caveats regarding these things...heck, even my adopted sisters have seen me play a bit of this and are intrigued/curious about it...and I've pointed out that the Minecraft they have played is actually a simplified version of Wurm made by one of the former creators of it.

Perhaps they (The people in power/control of this game) should begin to address some of these issues that are pushing their p(l)ayers away. You folks are making me even more frustrated lately because it's seeming like more of the same 'stick head in the sand'/ignore a problem stuff like it was before. Blame the victims. Maybe I should sell off and move on too. (Or should have already...maybe I'm too much of a glutton for punishment?) Then you can all go back to your status quo, with nobody questioning anything...

[FranktheTank 1,901]

as much as I would like some over protective governing force on the freedom servers, I will not be one of those governing people, so I must decline Corsan.

[rixk 830]

Garbage. The environment, where you have no means to react to someones actions, is no full sandbox. PvE lands are gimped version of sandbox. Let's take Yellowfingers case for example, noone likes, that he ninjas the casts. The global casts were in the past events, which everyone was waiting for. Now, because of people like Yellowfinger, they are gone. In true sandbox we could do something about it, but here .. even as community would come together, we can't do anything. Same is with theft. Someone can take stuff infront of your nose, all you can do, is just watch and wave to the guy.

 

So instead of making rules, which protect the *ssholes, guide them to pvp servers, where this all is enabled without limitations.. but where every action can also have a reaction.

[Finnn 3,303]

Where ganking and all sorts of griefing is everyday's life.. there's a reason most people stay on pve maps

 

PvE's fun tho.. somebody could steal from you and report you for harassment.. and than gms forbid you from talking to the person ingame in any way.. also do nothing about it. Than what do you do other than.. Wow

[Reylaark 1,100]

@Corsan  Honestly, I hope I never encounter such a horrid display of unnecessary drama.  Open up a newspaper, watch one of the overly dramatic talking heads on tv... isn't there enough drama in real life?  No desire to spend my leisure time dealing with it.  And all this on PvE no less... why not go to PvP?  The kind of (sorry for the offense, but) petty drama you describe is why I generally stay away from PvP in these types of games.  Especially since I put the bottle down.  Life's just too short.

 

I've always seen "Sandbox" more as character driven.  Back in SWG, I always found it unfortunate we had limitations on how to spend our skill points. 

 

To me, Wurm Online is a sandbox not because I seek some "Lord of the Flies" dystopia full of people reveling in anti-social behavior, but because my character has no personal limits.  I can, given a long enough real life, gain 100 skill in everything or any combination of skill.  It's a sandbox because I can shape and mold my own creation, my character, into anything I want to be.

 

The environmental sandbox will ultimately need to have some constraints, deeds/technical limitations/etc.

The cultural sandbox will ultimately need to have some constraints to allow many types of people to play in it.  Particularly when people do silly things to each other despite more landmass than we know what to do with.

The personal sandbox, imho, is where the money's at, and what defines Wurm as a sandbox.

 

[Eon 3]

I've always seen this kind of posts in every MMO that I played with the eventual "THE GAME IS DEAD/DYING!!!"  drama, my opinion is that people come and go and ofc you are not going to get as many players as when the game was still "young", people will eventually come back when there is a big update, grind what's new and leave again and so on, like... in any other MMO.

 

Lets add to the reason that MMO's are no longer the main lure for people as in for example the year 2000 to 2010ish, that Wurm just attracts a certain kind of gamers which is not the vast majority (lets face it, even although I love Wurm graphics, a lot of people will never get into Wurm because the """graphics are ugly / dated""", notice the extra commas...) and the release of Wurm Unlimited (and this is again my humble opinion) probably did not help to the WO community either. Although I know some people have returned from Unlimited to Online.

 

Most people that try Wurm don't get the point of the game and some reviewers don't help either with their harsh thoughts (recent example).

 

Also I've never ever seen any adverts in any shape of form of Wurm Online, I know this is not a Blizzard game but still... I came across this game years ago browsing Google when I was looking for a Linux MMO, and tbh the site didn't lure me much so I did not try it. Finally 6 months ago I came across Wurm Unlimited on Steam, we gave a look at it and decided to try the Online first (cause it's free) before getting Unlimited and we just got stuck on WO pretty much.

 

So, yeah... you still get new people. I'm a living proof of that lol.

 

As always sorry for the long post/rant and my grammar.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Eon

[Angelklaine 4,266]

Every story has 2 sides or more to it. We cant speak for what happened to you, Corsan, but that is exactly why the devs and moderators should not be involved in social interactions between two players. Imagine this:

 

You plop down a deed and spend 2 months terraforming it. Then you make the buildings, the fencing, gates, etc. You dig your mine and about 6momths down the road you are done.

 

The next day a CM contacts you: "Hey bud, do you mind scooting your deed over? Your neighbor is throwing a tantrum because he was gone for a while and on that time you deeded the area he used for his crops. I am going to need you to reduce your deed five tiles to the west or he will cancel his subscription."

 

It sounds absurd, I know, however this is what would happen if the staff got heavily involved into social interactions. Today is "I worked on my nearby area, no one should mess with it" but tomorrow will be "no one should be allowed to deed 25 tiles from my perimeter." People always have their own interests in mind, and will always lobby for whats best for them at the time. The last thing you want in a sandbox game is an army of cybernannies telling you how you should play it. 

[Tpikol 1,057]

7 minutes ago, Eon said:

I've always seen this kind of posts in every MMO that I played with the eventual "THE GAME IS DEAD/DYING!!!"  drama, my opinion is that people come and go and ofc you are not going to get as many players as when the game was still "young", people will eventually come back when there is a big update, grind what's new and leave again and so on,

i also seen this happen in many mmo´s that no longer exist,because it was true and they did die off.

[Eon 3]

3 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

i also seen this happen in many mmo´s that no longer exist,because it was true and they did die off.

The only ones I've seen being closed is because the company screwed it up big time to the point that most people left or they chosen to close it cause its was not a HUGE profit for their wallets any more (big companies mostly).

Edited June 11, 2017 by Eon

[Eon 3]

Mmmm... At least we will have a way to make a server if WO goes down (WU), that's not something you can say about every MMO out there... it would still be a shame...

Edited June 11, 2017 by Eon

[VentureCo 94]

Considering all the familiar names i saw on a Wurm Unlimited server and also myself being there instead of in Wurm Online i'd guess that, as predictable as it is, WU lured some people away from WO.

 

But that shouldn't be a worry to anyone. Wurm is Rolfs Baby, so as long as we have Rolf, we have Wurm. So we just have to keep him healthy and happy.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

9 minutes ago, VentureCo said:

Wurm is Rolfs Baby, so as long as we have Rolf,

 

that guy jumped ship

[Reylaark 1,100]

9 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

that guy jumped ship

he's just water-skiing off the back.

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

On 10-6-2017 at 11:35 PM, Angelklaine said:

It is not a box full of sand for children to play with the supervision of their parents. We are not kids, and Wurm is not full of sand.

 

Back in the days it was buddy.

[Angelklaine 4,266]

8 hours ago, LorenaMontana said:

 

Back in the days it was buddy.

What am I looking at? Looks infected.

[Finnn 3,303]

Olive trees.. they're all going down!

Timmmbbeeerrrr!!

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

8 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

What am I looking at? Looks infected.

Sand made by players