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salahahdin

Has anyone noticed we lost 800 players since the start of the year?

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28 minutes ago, Wonka said:

These are forums run by a private commercial entity, not a state sponsored public service.  Even if you and the entity and the hosting were somewhere like the USA (which they aren't), there is no such thing as 'free speech' here.  When using the forums, you agree to abide by the owner's rules, which includes restrictions on what you can and can't say.

 

There is a line between can't say (obvious staff/team bashing) and bermuda triangle of mysterious forum post disappearance. While the first is legitimate, but could also be used as PR to show the general opinion that, no, what is being said is wrong, the latter and specially the whole : "if you are not happy, go talk somewhere else about it" only do a way worse reputation for the game. And the examples of that are everywhere... from others games forums to reddit, facebook, twitter and others weird blogs and dark corners of the interweb.

 

1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

We've had several reach out about art work for Wurm, and we've taken on portfolios and discussion, but it winds up being a lot of work for very little to show in the end, we work better with Saroman handling the bulk of it and outsourcing with another company.

 

Saroman is doing great, isn't the bottleneck of the whole process codewise anyway? No matter how much art or how fast its being done, someone have to associate the models to the game (and create the whole materials, actions, gui, whatever) tied to your <insert whole new item/mesh/texture>

Edited by Odynn

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Before I go into this post, I ask that anyone who decides to reply please (PLEASE) read the entire post and take it at face value.  Please do NOT read into it anything more than what is written.  I have no hidden agenda and there are no hidden or subliminal messages in here anywhere.

 

That being said, I enjoy Wurm immensely. (Otherwise I would not still be playing after 5+ years).  However, I have noticed a trend over the years that isn’t such a good trend.  When I fist started playing, I couldn’t believe how helpful and friendly every one was….other players as well as staff members.  My first day playing while trying to make it to the village deed I was to be part of, I died 12 times in a row.  There were many people along the way who tried helping out by tanking mobs to let me past or tending my wounds in a valiant but vain attempt to keep me alive.  All the while people in chat trying to help me find the best and safest way to make it out alive.  

 

There weren’t very many bugs or issues back then that would make the game harder or less fun to play, but when there was an issue you could almost always count on other players to help out and get things solved without the need to bother the GM’s.  When a GM was needed, I never had to wait for more than 5-10 minutes for a GM to answer, and most of the time they were standing beside me in that 5-10 minute period.   Even if it was something that I was or wasn’t doing properly, there was someone willing to help out.

 

Over the years I have noticed that that friendly helpful attitude is disappearing slowly but surely, among players as well as staff.  Players that post about a problem they are having get told “it’s your fault” or “you’re doing something wrong” by other players and/or staff members. It takes hours/days or even weeks to get a response from staff members, if you get one at all.  I know staff members are busy, and trust me…we try to fix things on our own before going to staff members, but to have someone tell you it’s your fault for getting stuck in the void while crossing server borders (for example) isn’t conducive to a happy player.  It’s hard to believe that some one who has been riding carts for ages (using the exact same PC and settings) is at fault when suddenly they die trying to disembark. I know this first hand, from dying in a wall after disembarking 3 tiles away from the wall.  I submitted a ticket and was basically told, “Oh well.”

 

I am not bashing staff or players with this post (I know players have their own things going on and as I said before the staff is busy), just pointing out that as a community as a whole…..we’re a long way from where we started.  It seems that now-a-days it’s more of an “each man for him self, dog-eat-dog” type of game.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Inspira said:

I am not bashing staff or players with this post (I know players have their own things going on and as I said before the staff is busy), just pointing out that as a community as a whole…..we’re a long way from where we started.  It seems that now-a-days it’s more of an “each man for him self, dog-eat-dog” type of game.

 

Aye, you are right on that part, the helpful community is falling apart. Bugs, exploits and player greed do not help old-timers (read anyone that is not a newbie and know a bit of wurm history) to greet with open arms new players, specially when new players keep leaving after their first connection / building their houses... or leaving with your valuables.

 

Rules / Staff rulling didn't helped either to recover lost items after theft, bug exploits or RL money ones (do i need to say Niru). I know a few players who left after all the built / worked for ingame was destroyed / taken away by ill intended players.

 

Greed also seems to have replaced the spirit of some get together like the Impalongs, the free blood potion crafting and attaching at uniques hunt, treasures hunts became a money grab for some, trying to achieve the first place to sell the unique reward for large amounts, rifts the same with a good amount of RNG and the exploitation of the new runes market. We had options to shine but we didn't and when a few abuses events our staff worked to make, we are not sending them a good message either.

 

Lately, the amount of griefing and toxicity is reaching new heights... where went those golden rules to settle away from others players, talk with your neighbors, work with the community when a few can change the face of the game (read landscape) permanently, against everyone opinions and have nothing done against them... or the changes they did. Where went the rule of "if the intent is to harm, then it's griefing" when you have people deeding right next to you to strip the land bare and mine a huge hole in it. Why some behavior must be accepted, like the fact someone destroyed the community spirit behind server wide spells (RoS / Yellowfingers) because they can and there is no rules against it.

 

Yes, we can think it's fine, we can close our eyes, pretend we will be alright, but the issues are still here... and overtime more and more people are leaving due to them. Specially those who shined the most among us, the kind ones, the involved ones, those who trusted others and tried to build a good community and had the hard door of the reality slammed back in their face with the notice "it's your fault, you should have done it like that...".

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On 6/3/2017 at 10:35 AM, Thorakkanath said:
  1. stop bogging the system even more by releasing new content - no one will die if they don't see new content for a year (remember the old days?)

 

Personally its trying new content and seeing the game shape up into a game where u can be more creative is what brings me back.

 

Some people appreciate grinding one skill all day long thats not me and im sure others like designing with the new content.

 

I live on xanadu im ok with the lag actually its less than 6 months ago and no cart bug now which was the worst.

 

Keep releasing new content please game is on the right track.

 

Its up to the players to get others interested in the game if u feel that population is low.

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I really don't know where you all find the time to post about this stuff.  I've got such a long in-game to do list.  Stuff on that list that has to be 4 years old now that I swear I'll get to in a few months...not likely.

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Communities have become more insular, in that they are less open to outsiders, but there are still excellent groups around, and some servers are a lot better than others.  Every unique hunt I've been to of late has had someone offering to mix blood for free, and the folks organising the hunts on my server make good efforts to include all server residents in them (regardless of whether said residents helped with trapping, are friends with organisers, etc).  I regularly see newbies given helping hands.  My interactions with staff have been generally good, but then I haven't needed to call on a GM for some time, so I can't say how normal that is.

 

Perhaps there does need to be more hand-holding by GMs, at least on Freedom.  Restoring skill lost to bug deaths, helping trapped newbies to escape, smacking people behaving badly.  I'm not sure how many GMs there actually are (there do seem to be a number of 'hidden' ones, so the official list isn't necessarily accurate), but perhaps there needs to be a bit more recruitment there?  Although, I can see how the selection process would need to be pretty serious, to prevent abuse, and I can't think of anything that would destroy my enjoyment faster than having to deal with player issues all the time in-game.  Maybe a small group of paid GMs, who cover the major timezones?

 

Oh, and comparing a commercial game to a political system is like comparing apples to elephants.  This isn't communism, it has nothing to do with how the UN is run, or with politics, except in the most general way.  This is a commercial offering, operated by a private company, not a public service, and not an elected government.  Whether how the game is run has an impact on commercial success or not is one thing, but complaining that Wurm (or the forums, or the chat, or...) is run like a communist regime (or whatever political system you dislike) is not only wrong, it's horribly misguided.

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18 hours ago, Killroth said:

 

Its up to the players to get others interested in the game if u feel that population is low.

 

I couldn't disagree more, its up to a company that wants to increase profits and not go out of business to increase population.  If you like the game sure, ask your friends to play spread word of mouth but its absolutely not our responsibility to increase the player base.

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On 6/3/2017 at 0:04 PM, Retrograde said:

 

Well I'm no newbie and I make, sell and deliver bulks for a living and really enjoy it.
I had nothing, then met Kuja who invited me to her deed, lived there for like a week and got to know the Lemosa Alliance, moved to a camp, started helping the allies with random stuff like chopping down forests and building roads...they gave me tools, I worked and learned, everyone wins.

Then I built another road to help an ally, got myself tons of wood in the process, moved to another camp by the ocean where ppl could easily reach me to buy my stuff and began making planks and storing them on BSB's. I made 4k planks, sold them, bought a ship, started delivering. Then made over 10k planks, sold them delivered, got myself some silver. Then I said goodbye to my camp, sailed away, found a place to settle and made a village with a friend. And I'm still making, selling and delivering building materials.

I don't see why ppl think it's so brutal for newbies to make bulks. You'll fail a lot and grind a lot, but that's how EVERYTHING works on wurm. Also, you don't need high ql to sell them, there's always demand and the money is pretty decent, mainly because ppl just hate making bricks n' stuff.

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I know that my alliance (and me personally) have been much more leery about accepting new people mostly because of potential holes in permissions and the lack of repercussions to known exploiters and thieves.

 

It's just too much of a risk to take in someone without a reputation. It's too easy for liars and thieves to pretend to be new.

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I know where is problem....   soon we got release of life is feudal mmo.   And that we all waiting so much

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37 minutes ago, Hailene said:

I know that my alliance (and me personally) have been much more leery about accepting new people mostly because of potential holes in permissions and the lack of repercussions to known exploiters and thieves.

 

It's just too much of a risk to take in someone without a reputation. It's too easy for liars and thieves to pretend to be new.

 

Are we talking potential holes in mechanics or improperly set mechanics? Is there adequate explanation of how to set permissions properly? 

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No drop shafts good battle system..... and many more...  its seems like wurm online 2.  That will be rip for wurm sadly

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34 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

 

Are we talking potential holes in mechanics or improperly set mechanics? Is there adequate explanation of how to set permissions properly? 

 

I think you missed the point Retro.  She's talking about lack of punishment for people that take a ###### on our community.  Things like exploiting glitches to enter a locked house to steal everything of value off of a personal merchant, in my case.  Should I get my items back becasue I didn't know you could interact through a merchant through a window?  No.  Should this person be allowed to keep the items?  Absolutely not. 

 

TL:DR, stop rewarding thieves and griefers.

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18 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

I think you missed the point Retro.  She's talking about lack of punishment for people that take a ###### on our community.  Things like exploiting glitches to enter a locked house to steal everything of value off of a personal merchant, in my case.  Should I get my items back becasue I didn't know you could interact through a merchant through a window?  No.  Should this person be allowed to keep the items?  Absolutely not. 

 

TL:DR, stop rewarding thieves and griefers.

I'm referring to the other discussion about not taking on new players due to holes in permissions.

 

The other issue you mention is an ongoing internal discussion, but one I hope to have resolved soon.

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Permissions generally work, if you set them right, but you have to micro-manage permissions on an individual basis - setting anything other than very basic permissions on a group level (alliance, other deed, etc) is asking for trouble, especially in a larger alliance.  You also have to be really careful about who you trust, since you really have no idea who controls a particular character - just because the char isn't obviously new, doesn't mean it hasn't been bought or otherwise acquired by a scammer, or isn't a scammer you just haven't heard about.

 

To that end, we tend to be really careful about who we let into our alliance, and I still only give out permissions to specific people as necessary.  Unfortunately, no amount of system will be 100% once you involve humans in the mix (especially humans you don't already know and have some RL connection to).

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Seems to me a lot of people are pointing towards the cc volunteers for the "fall of wurm", be it inaction over offences or poor development policy.

 

But this just isn't plausible; if bad customer service were a deciding factor in player count then companies such as Nexon (3 months to answer a ticket) would have died years ago.

 

The real root lies at the heart of the community; greed.

 

A lot of wurm's development has been stunted by certain community blocs wanting to keep a monopoly or advantage of some kind.  Be it keeping priests unplayable to drive up magic prices, or for gelding animals to drive up the price of horses, or by priests not wanting others to have magic, or by the massive resistance to the PoI fix.

 

The root of these issues?  The real world value of in game currency.  Ban silver and account selling and remove silver's ability to purchase premium and you'll be well on your way to fixing the heart of wurm's issues.

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Anyone mentioned advertising yet?

Perhaps i shouldn't....

 

Popular mmo: Funding for development, testing and advertising all before release.
 

As you're passing people in the street ask them if they have heard of wow or eve online, then ask them if they have heard of wurm online.

Survival is about saturation, the more you have the less you worry about running out, same goes for a player base or in the case of advertising, the population you draw them from.

 

The eternal struggle:  who gets the money and how much of it.

Plenty of options to throw money at i am sure apart from advertising, however advertising in any form is the cornerstone to population growth.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, lawurm said:

Anyone mentioned advertising yet?

Perhaps i shouldn't....

 

Popular mmo: Funding for development, testing and advertising all before release.
 

As you're passing people in the street ask them if they have heard of wow or eve online, then ask them if they have heard of wurm online.

Survival is about saturation, the more you have the less you worry about running out, same goes for a player base or in the case of advertising, the population you draw them from.

 

The eternal struggle:  who gets the money and how much of it.

Plenty of options to throw money at i am sure apart from advertising, however advertising in any form is the cornerstone to population growth.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if that meshes with their metrics on player retention though...?  Based on what Budda said, I have to wonder if an advertising blitz would do more harm than good right now. 

If a lot of people aren't making past the tutorial, then bringing people in just to watch them walk away seems like it would do more harm than good.  You'd then have to later try and get them to give it another chance which I think would be harder.

I think their plan to modernize the UI, make the tutorial more interactive and game-like, etc. is good.  When they see some positive growth retaining the players that do give it a shot, then advertise like mad...

thoughts?

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I suppose we won't see big masses of long term players. As my little understanding shows the currently most populated "gamer type" pile seeks for quantity not quality. They measure themselves by how many games are in their steam account, how many games played through how fast. It is quite same as music gets outdated and expired in ... a week? We need to face the truth we are weirdos enjoying this game :D

This does not mean at all that there is no room for a way bigger playerbase but would not expect tens of thousands of sticking players. I think this is absolutely fine, as long as CCAB is okay with not breaking the records of candycrush saga or such games.

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You forget that wurm's a struggle to play, and half or a bit more of it's current player base likes or straight up.. loves that about the game.

 

On the other hand.. new players tend to like much easier carefree games.. or having the challenge in fighting, boss mechanics, etc.. action based, instead of complexity in crafting. Since the game type.. is a niche.. expect a really low % of the viewers of these ads to ever come and check the game.. even lower % are going to stay for a bit.. or longer..

5 minutes ago, Jaz said:

...

We need to face the truth we are weirdos enjoying this game :D

This does not mean at all that there is no room for a way bigger playerbase but would not expect tens of thousands of sticking players. I think this is absolutely fine, as long as CCAB is okay with not breaking the records of candycrush saga or such games.

:lol:

 

Other complain about economy in the game.. 2 words.. holy * cow... if anything economy is FINE, 4years ago~ 1 silver = 1euro, today - same. Tell me one other game with that solid currency.

Game just needs to somehow make people trade things... on the other hand... that breaks the other principle.. of the sandbox.. being able to do anything on your own.. with the itty bitty little restrictions for players..(mainly.. 'hermits' who build a few steps/hills away from other civilization)

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20 minutes ago, Finnn said:

 

Other complain about economy in the game.. 2 words.. holy * cow... if anything economy is FINE, 4years ago~ 1 silver = 1euro, today - same. Tell me one other game with that solid currency.

 

I hope you are joking, or are you seriously bringing fixed rate, which is hardcoded, as an example of solid economy? :)

If you want to compare state of economy between different times, then compare how many hours do/did you have to put into game, to earn 1 Silver/euro.

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1 hour ago, Finnn said:

Other complain about economy in the game.. 2 words.. holy * cow... if anything economy is FINE, 4years ago~ 1 silver = 1euro, today - same. Tell me one other game with that solid currency.

 

Haha, the joke, see how much you can buy with the same amount of money now than 4 years ago, yah, the real world currency stayed the same, doesn't means anything else in Wurm didn't took a huge dive. A knarr used to cost 16s you can have them for 8s. Enchants, heck, all over the board once again. Imps, yah, right, welcome to less than 3rd world country hourly rate.

 

10 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I'm referring to the other discussion about not taking on new players due to holes in permissions.

 

The other issue you mention is an ongoing internal discussion, but one I hope to have resolved soon.

 

Permissions are a mess, the whole management is silly (specially the lack of groups), the lack of proper informations do not help (which overwrite which in the case of wagons/containers/house/deeds) and the holes in the perms are usually bugs or exploits, that are only known to the exploiters and/or devs and are being exploited by a few till it's fixed with little to no repercusions. And the damages are done for good on a community level, just have to see the paranoia everywhere.

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@Odynn that's because of supply/demand.. before game used to have 10 shipbuilders.. mechanic was dumb af.. there was no reason for anyone to ever skill or use it.. unless they needed crate storage, recently somebody bought 10x corbitas to store crates, guy didn't need the boats to transfer something around.. but instead to hold the crates and contain them in less space and organizable format. Knarrs now aren't hard to make, people skill up to get their boats to sail faster. About their price.. there's another story that I can not comment on, but there's a reason that the price dropped. Enchants.. ever since the nacho nerf and fix.. so everyone could sac 'chopped salad', favor became easy.. to monetize or grind for skill. Which soon leads to more 80s, 90s, 100 casts coc/woa/botd/aosp/etc.. *shrugs*

Game didn't have the means players have now.. to grind as much back than.

 

---edit

Actually that's the other thing we know..silver is the same.. no change there.. kind of 'yay', BUT.. items themselves need some update, and some serious challenge.

Game just needs a new meta, something awesome to craft/make/cast.. but also.. requiring much more effort, making a new -must-have.. but at the same time.. making some of the old items leave the game.. like something simple as... boosting a ql90-95 tool/weapon with another 5 or 10% attack or speed/skill/etc.. only after improving it that high.. and resetting it's ql back to 1.. with the chance to lose parts or whole items in the process.. in other way.. game needs some sinks for the items.. as they keep dropping in price.

Gems are useless~? Make it so jsmiths could combine them to improve ql.. merge gems into tools/weapons/gear.. to add new properties.. 3-5-10% of something.. anything.. make that mountains of gems dissapear and new ones to be always needed, etc..

 

NOBODY in wurm wants their items to break/dissapear/shatter.. but as long there's a good enough reason to risk it... and it's a player's choice, you can't blame the game as you did it on your own. And.. if you do not want that awesome new item.. well play with your silly old grey toys, it's ok.;)

Edited by Finnn
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5 hours ago, Finnn said:

NOBODY in wurm wants their items to break/dissapear/shatter.. but as long there's a good enough reason to risk it... and it's a player's choice, you can't blame the game as you did it on your own. And.. if you do not want that awesome new item.. well play with your silly old grey toys, it's ok.;)

 

I have seen a decent system used in other games, where you could 'break down' items to gain additional resources that were then used to create 'end game' items.

Breaking down a 30/50/70/90ql item could give different resources related to what you broke down that are then required to build/augment other, higher tier items.

 

That would:

a. create demand for items of various qualities

b. create demand for bulk tools

c. introduce items that are difficult and require a lot of time/resources to create

 

Imagine, an item that required the breaking down of  50x 30ql, 20x 50ql, 10x 70ql and 5x 90ql items in order to get the parts required to build a new item.

Or much like how runes augment items, you could break down 5x 90ql items to create a 90ql augment for a tool of the same type for example.

Edited by Forrest
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Spoiler

I was thinking about something else.. gems seem useless~-ish.. as priests could just spam chopped veggies 24/7 anyway.. with some other voodoo trickery vesseling is ~obsolete or 'expensive' enough to keep aside from it and still get the skill for cheap. Since game have ~MANY 90/+ skilled chars.. and high ql isnt a problem at all.. could expand the endgame with something that comes from high ql items, ql30 is nothing, sure you DO have a point.. that less skilled players are going to want to get their feet wet in such new system.

 

20x ql30/50/70 is nothing.. really nothing, even at 150x.. you'll barely get to tickle somebody's nerve.. 90skilled char with woa toolset(not to mention imbued tools) is going to be able to make from 1 to several *new items* a day.

Ofc.. such work is going to need a good reward or bonus.. but.. if this was easy.. it's just going to be farmed, over and over and over... until we're back where that new content was needed.. new system needs to offer a nice juicy bone but also be cruel and time consuming.. like oldscool skillgrinds.. taking ton of time, no 90-100coc toolsets - takes A LOT of time.. to get high.

I like that@Forrestit might just need some evil rng around it.. to maybe.. give only a chance to get the new ingredient or nothing..(as getting lower tier parts devaluates other people's work...)

But.. yea.. we're going offtopic and doubt many are going to like such new craftable *moonmetal* with new properties..:huh::rolleyes:

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