Basic trade revival project - general discussion

[Finnn 3,321]

Alts wont be 'banned'.. one of the reasons is.. prem alts are still paying, being 1 or 10 people.. doesn't matter if it brings the bucks.

There wont be any taking from the richer either.. it's not how economy works.. want to make coins? Be useful somehow, at low skill.. bulk goods is all you could generate to sell...

 

One of the reasons to grind skills up high.. is to make it easier later

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

A notion that might be worth exploring is "localised resources".

 

At the moment we have a very crude implementation of this in terms of rice/reeds and grapes.

 

Rice and reeds (and previously clay) are commodities that mountain dwellers do trade for, since they cannot obtain them themselves (easily).

 

Red and green grapes form two distinct species, with very few people able to grow both.  Their functional identity removes them as a tradable commodity though

 

The key point is that wurm already has regional resources of a kind and extending these resources (ores that only occur in thick rock layers, more north/south east/west divided growables) to include usable differences stimulates trade.

 

You're always going to have some diehards with 4+ deeds trying to monopolise EVERYTHING, but more than likely you'll see players trading.  Add in a few special crafts/spells using these items that are useful to everyone and you have the basis of a solid economy.

[Yiraia 427]

2 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

A notion that might be worth exploring is "localised resources".

I thought this was a thing and then it was removed? like ores being dense in one area and barely anywhere else. AND clay being in one area but then transmutation tiles were a thing. Im pretty sure nobody wants this, and promotes everything opposite of it. I would like it though. I even brought up the idea of water having different ql so sea water wasn't so OP, and locating 100ql with pendulums.

[Erevorn 130]

Localised resources are the way to go, but you can't just BAM take away all the maps and replace them or make new ones without pissing people off.

[Yiraia 427]

2 minutes ago, Erevorn said:

Localised resources are the way to go, but you can't just BAM take away all the maps and replace them or make new ones without pissing people off.

Its the way to make only a few players happy. Plenty of people do not like the idea of taking a 1 hour long journey to collect clay. Collect for 2-3 hours, and then ride back for 1 hour. At that point people would ask for fast travel. Also theres a limited amount of materials you can haul back home. I can't think of anything a developer can do to make wurm better, but im pretty sure theres a lot the players can do. Roads and bridges alone make wurm a lot more playable for people.

[Erevorn 130]

Just now, Yiraia said:

Plenty of people do not like the idea of taking a 1 hour long journey to collect clay. Collect for 2-3 hours, and then ride back for 1 hour.

 

You're missing the main point here. The main point is to make people specialise in certain trade areas and therefore make them more interesting in bulk trade, barter and low-tier trade in general. If you settle near clay you can sell clay or barter it for crates of iron etc etc.

[Finnn 3,321]

There are so many skills, crafts, spells.. there's no specialization, you skill up several things 'at once' to he useful for yourself/friends or to help your trading later.

It's a sandbox.. not wow/or w/e other mmo.., you aren't limited to picking 2 crafts and unable to do anything else.. being forced to buy or trade for the things you cant make. You're able to do anything... with the only limitations between spells / crafts~, sorcery is so rare.. and costs so much time, effort or coins.. that it's too rare to even mention it's existence.

 

Transmutation liquids solved the problem with traveling around for clay/tar/peat/...(pointless to hope for that to come back; either way.. you can still sell the same resources to some in demand of bulk quantities, even if they have a tile ondeed)

 

If you want to sell anything, grind up some of the useful skills, or w/e sells and you like doing.

[Yiraia 427]

1 hour ago, Erevorn said:

 

You're missing the main point here. The main point is to make people specialise in certain trade areas and therefore make them more interesting in bulk trade, barter and low-tier trade in general. If you settle near clay you can sell clay or barter it for crates of iron etc etc.

You are missing my point

1 hour ago, Yiraia said:

Its the way to make only a few players happy.

Ask anybody if they would like to rely on other people. I love the idea of trade and interaction, but everything can really backfire. You can start off saying "Woohoo i got clay, time to trade iron" but the guy doesnt need clay and thus wouldnt give you iron. Now you are stuck in an area filled with clay to do pottery but you want to make better iron tools. Now you have to go in trade chat and look for other people who have iron, and theres a chance that they didn't take the time to mine extra and they are busy doing other things. Want to mine that iron thats all localized? well shame, all the ones nearby are claimed, and you have to move from the coast all the way to the middle of xanadu where nobody lives to get iron, and then come back. Relying on others seems fun, until you realize the other people you need to rely on may be complete butts.

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

I was thinking more...

 

Useful trade resources such as cinnabar veins near the coast (quicksilver for making better compasses), coal veins under mountains (for easier access to coal in certain areas), river yarrow and mountain edelweiss (when mixed together produce a farmer's salve like healing item that works on all wounds as a bandage) etc

 

In essence, particular local items that are either advantageous to trade (the herbs in this example) or give someone living in that local an advantage in a particular trade (the ores in this example).

 

The following factors can be used to determine spawn/growth:

 

Low/Medium/High Elevation

North/South/Any

East/West/Any

 

So you could have something that only spawns in the south east of servers in the medium/high elevations.

 

You have 6*3*3 possible combinations, thus (at least) 54 new resources to play with.  In essence, you don't punish high-level players, you simply expand the content in a way that means no player is an island and that trade becomes essential if one wants all forms of convenience.  Why travel for 2 hours to harvest resources when you can order it in from a low-level player who harvests the resources there daily?

Edited June 1, 2017 by Etherdrifter

[Yiraia 427]

2 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Useful trade resources such as cinnabar veins near the coast (quicksilver for making better compasses), coal veins under mountains (for easier access to coal in certain areas), river yarrow and mountain edelweiss (when mixed together produce a farmer's salve like healing item that works on all wounds as a bandage) etc

Live near coal, Ignore everything else. Unless it spawns far away from the ocean or any lakes, that will be what happens. everything else you listed is meh... If you were to suggest anything that seems nearly mandatory, people will ask for a method to make an endless amount near the deed. Also, the solution that erevorn was asking for was a method to improve low tier trade.

[Wurmhole 3,650]

So we all agree that this game isn't for the masses.  But it is for some.  If those rare, genetically coded people are out there, we need to somehow reach them and pull them in.  How do we do it?  Add new features?  Change premium model? Remove alts? Local resources to attempt to force barter?  Wait, what about this amazing technology never seen before here, but used in every other game....

 

Marketing.

 

If they never see it, they will not come.

[Ayes 3,715]

Same old deal here perpetuated under the *guise* of "improving Trade" within Wurm. Label it as you will but what it all boils down to is that some people want to make money (silver) from playing the game and therefore come up with new ideas how they can benefit more from doing so. Pure self interest on their part as these protections to "Trade" are put into place to serve their particular ability to make money (silver).

 

As is now Trade functions on more of a free market principle which in general players can not control to increase their profits due to open competition from others. Only the exclusivity of the harder to obtain objects from Uniques eludes this general free market and you can see the results as players seek to gain control of them (Uniques) with their brigand bands of brotherhood. I see no positive value for the general Wurm population to attempt to warp the function of Trade in this direction with protective measures that enrich those who come up with these proposals. All innocently of course I am sure, as in, yea sure.

 

=Ayes=

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

You're quite right, no-one should ever suggest something in their self-interest, nor argue a point in their self-interest

 

The argument for the existence of a market is a rather simple one; it adds a large set of "self-imposable" objectives for players.  A lot of players join wurm wanting to take up a "profession" ingame (I honestly can't imagine them joining for the combat), they quickly leave in disappointment when they realise they'll never be able to compete.

 

A healthy market (for example, to use a long running market, the runescape market) has both supply and demand in reasonable measures.  A low level miner can mine iron and coal knowing that a smith will buy it to make steel because higher level smiths use that steel to skill smithing via creating steel nails (which they then either sell to builders or drop).  The first two tiers are after almost pure profit (low skillgain), only the higher tier is obtaining utility (skillgain in this case) from the items produced.

 

In wurm (a very sickly market); low QL iron is never (to my knowledge) desired over high QL iron and low QL coal is produced in amounts usually too low to sell.  So mid level players generally mine their own iron and make their own coal.  But no-one wants to buy their steel (no real utility save for selling things on the non-existant market for high-level players) so why bother making it at all?

 

While the markets are not directly comparable (wurm's real world value for silver, the longer times in wurm harvesting, QL being a wurm factor etc...), the important lesson to learn here is that wurm's market generally only goes in one direction (low skill players pay high skill ones, low skill players usually buy silver (very few are willing to suffer the life of a bulker)).  Not really a market, more of a badly thought out pyramid scheme at present.

[Rathgar 959]

45 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

You're quite right, no-one should ever suggest something in their self-interest, nor argue a point in their self-interest

 

The argument for the existence of a market is a rather simple one; it adds a large set of "self-imposable" objectives for players.  A lot of players join wurm wanting to take up a "profession" ingame (I honestly can't imagine them joining for the combat), they quickly leave in disappointment when they realise they'll never be able to compete.

 

A healthy market (for example, to use a long running market, the runescape market) has both supply and demand in reasonable measures.  A low level miner can mine iron and coal knowing that a smith will buy it to make steel because higher level smiths use that steel to skill smithing via creating steel nails (which they then either sell to builders or drop).  The first two tiers are after almost pure profit (low skillgain), only the higher tier is obtaining utility (skillgain in this case) from the items produced.

 

In wurm (a very sickly market); low QL iron is never (to my knowledge) desired over high QL iron and low QL coal is produced in amounts usually too low to sell.  So mid level players generally mine their own iron and make their own coal.  But no-one wants to buy their steel (no real utility save for selling things on the non-existant market for high-level players) so why bother making it at all?

 

While the markets are not directly comparable (wurm's real world value for silver, the longer times in wurm harvesting, QL being a wurm factor etc...), the important lesson to learn here is that wurm's market generally only goes in one direction (low skill players pay high skill ones, low skill players usually buy silver (very few are willing to suffer the life of a bulker)).  Not really a market, more of a badly thought out pyramid scheme at present.

 

The problem with the market, is that its one directional, just like you say.  Old players sell to new players.  Even if its bulk goods, an old player will use alts with higher skills to produce resources exponentially faster than a new player.

 

This is because each player (except for priests) can do everything simultaneously without any kind of penalty.

Because of that, players who have already spent some time in the game will never need something from a newer player.

The only real, permanent fix would be to block how many accaunts one can log simultaneously, and a skill system like Ultima Online, where you could be anything you wanted, but not everything at the same time.

 

For those not familiar with the system, you woud have a list of skills similar to Wurm, wich you would increase by doing the apropiate actions. With the big difference that all your skill points combined, could not be higher than X, in the server I used to play it was 750. So you could level up 7 skill to 100% and 1 to 50%, or any combination you saw fit.

 

Of course such a change will never happen in Wurm, so my guess is we will always be stuck with this one way, class divided market.

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

Actually, the example I used was deliberately aimed at a game where players do have the potential to do EVERYTHING.  On runescape the only differentiator is premium (easier time skilling) and non-premium (the game for pros).

 

On runescape there are no classes so to speak, the difference between the runescape market and wurm's is really all down to utility of the items and amounts needed.  It's not wurm's "everyone can do everything" approach that causes the issue as such a market has been shown to work.

[Finnn 3,321]

@Etherdrifter

rs is 3rd person clicker.. you have bank to hoard stuff and teleportation system to move quickly around, npcs with basic tools to help you craft, upgrade, buy gear from them, you could sell things to get some currency, which is useless for other than buying gear.

You're comparing 60k~ vs 3k(?) playerbase. MMORPG vs sandbox..

#### of course there are going to be differences.

 

Wurm have a system where you start with nothing.. and could get to build your own castle from scratch.

You don't like how your worthless goods are worth nothing? Get better son, where do you think other people have started?

 

Tell me 1 game where you can get to top10 in week 2? (if you find one... you'll be bored from it in 2 months)

Some people here been around for 5-10 years~ and another 6-12month old could be better than them on some skill, do you see them complain about that?

If you could make 1-2 silvers or 10 in 2 days.. what do you think 5-10x 90 skilled player gets every month? Some get 0 coins, game's not just about trading things and profits.

 

No need to remind you how you complained about being unable to make kindling and refused any kind of trading to get some.

Now you're suggesting trading solutions, and asking people to work together? 

[Yiraia 427]

38 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Tell me 1 game where you can get to top10 in week 2? (if you find one... you'll be bored from it in 2 months) 

A game that requires skill, not time. Brawlhalla, Dark souls (I - III, demon souls, and bloodborne). As for a game thats more similar to wurm, i recall hearing (could have heard wrong) that Albion is making a system where your character means very little and its all about equipment. Join a nice group and learn how to play, if you are skilled enough i guess you can become the "top 10"

42 minutes ago, Finnn said:

No need to remind you how you complained about being unable to make kindling and refused any kind of trading to get some.

Now you're suggesting trading solutions, and asking people to work together? 

Burn :3

 

11 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

So we all agree that this game isn't for the masses.  But it is for some.  If those rare, genetically coded people are out there, we need to somehow reach them and pull them in.  How do we do it?  Add new features?  Change premium model? Remove alts? Local resources to attempt to force barter?  Wait, what about this amazing technology never seen before here, but used in every other game....

 

Marketing.

I wouldn't wanna see this game marketed to masses at its current state... people will just run away. "How do i get money, theres no quest, I can't get work, these bodies are only worth 11 iron" .."How do i fight this wolf, do i just stand right next to it? Now i just wait, no moves? thats lame" .. The game poses no challenge, just time. A good question first is to ask why the current playerbase plays wurm. My main reason is because it was the first sandbox i played, and I could easily perform another task while i play (homework mostly)

[Finnn 3,321]

28 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

Spoiler

A game that requires skill, not time. Brawlhalla, Dark souls (I - III, demon souls, and bloodborne). As for a game thats more similar to wurm, i recall hearing (could have heard wrong) that Albion is making a system where your character means very little and its all about equipment. Join a nice group and learn how to play, if you are skilled enough i guess you can become the "top 10"

 

Awesome.. games that are nothing like wurm, 'perfect' to compare..  desktop fighter keymasher vs mmo/sandbox.

Once you beat ds/bb/ds, chances to ever run the same game are low..

 

Sure.. summer is ~here, we're all about to burn.

 

35 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

I wouldn't wanna see this game marketed to masses at its current state... people will just run away. "How do i get money, theres no quest, I can't get work, these bodies are only worth 11 iron" .."How do i fight this wolf, do i just stand right next to it? Now i just wait, no moves? thats lame" .. The game poses no challenge, just time. A good question first is to ask why the current playerbase plays wurm. My main reason is because it was the first sandbox i played, and I could easily perform another task while i play (homework mostly)

So you're against any influx of new players into the game, as they're going to spam the chats with FAQs?

 

Marketing wont help much, there wont be that many people to like the existing creation and improving system, skill requirements, difficulty of actions, penalties for failing or death, etc.. 

Look at RoK, ARK, Rust, etc etc etc... games where buildings eventually kill he servers and require new world every 1-2 weeks to fight the lag. What's the common there? Crafting's simplified, plenty of animations, crafting takes 1-2 clicks - never more.. bugs.. unless they're crashing your client.. usually lead to viral funny videos trough the net.. showing something ridiculous..(great free advertising).

[Erlindur 63]

Trying to think about trade in Wurm but from a newbie perspective, I believe the current way the game works is totally confusing for the new player. Trade chat and forum posts full of gibberish he doesn't understand. It will take ages to even begin to realize how trade works in this game. And the first trade related question everyone asks is where is the auction house. For good or bad, most gamers have learned to trade through auction houses in almost every other game out there.

 

NO, NOT ANOTHER POST ABOUT AUCTION HOUSES, I can hear everyone shout. And you are right. An auction house in this game will disrupt a lot. So this is not a post about an auction house but something else. Something that keeps the way we do things here but in a more convenient way that most new players are familiar with. The trade advertisement board (or whatever you like it to be called, I'm really bad at finding new names). Something that will have the feel of an auction house and the functionality (sort of) of the forum thread. We will have one of those boards in every starter town but there will be a craftable version to place in our deeds (I think something like the message board).

 

So what will it do? Well, you use it and a familiar auction house window opens. It will have all the common functions you expect from an auction house, like search for strings or item categories, sort by price, you know what I'm talking about. It could be server wide (as in a post somewhere appears in all boards) or maybe even cross server (can't think any disadvantage in cross server but maybe there are some). What makes it completely different from an auction house though, is that you will not search actual items but advertisements for them. Trading will stay exactly as it is now.

 

Now, how will those advertisements will work? I think that the best way is to emulate auction houses again. You drag an object to a post window and the item with all its characteristics (ql, enchantments, runes, whatever) appears in a familiar auction entry with a price you set. What is different is that noone can buy it from the board. When you post an item, you must give contact info like pm or mail name (or both). If someone wants to buy it, he will simply have to contact you the usual way. We could also use a trader for contact info like “you can buy it from that trader, in that town). You can even use it for bulk orders. You post a dirt with the price of one and add a comment for bulk order prices.

 

We can have something similar for another tab for wtb advertisements. Post a simple pickaxe for example and modify the item for requested quality, enchantments or what you are looking for. (I would suggest something with drop down menus to make search more manageable but this is adevelopment issue, what ever works better). If someone has or can craft what you want, he will have to contact you the usual way.

 

Finally, since such a board would be easy to spam, have an advertisement fee on using it. Nothing much, like one to ten irons per day. You prepay for as long as you want it to stay. If you sell your item, you take the ad down and get the rest of your money back. If the duration ends, it simply goes down (unless you pay more of course to prolong it). So, if you simply want to sell one item, you keep the ad up till someone gets it (or you get bored). If you sell your craft, for example high ql pickaxes, place a good example of your work on display and keep the advertisement for as long as you like. If someone contacts you, simply make a new one like it and trade it.

 

So, a new player has something familiar to introduce him to trade, price checking could be easy if there are advertisements for similar items up and it is simply a point of contact. Nothing in trade will change.

[Finnn 3,321]

I don't think so... once the nub figures that 'help' channel is ca-help.. they are going to start asking questions there... CAs usually mention a few ways to make coins.. game does not have guides.. and once it does.. every method listed will be scrapped by noob hordes underbidding etc.. just to make a few coins fast(problem? yup)
 

'how trade works in the game' no auction or trader place.. it's all done by negotiating with people local/trade/pm/gl-/freedom chats or forum threads/pms, is that any different in other games - no, just here you need some way to deliver the goods.. or sometimes put a discount.. to make that buyer come by.. and pick their new items.
 

Auction house.. I wouldn't mind.. but that's going to change the way everybody trades, almost none of the established shops are going to like that idea. 
On the other hand... we could have some auction to work with every/any merchant npc from any deed on the same server.. and to list the items sorted by search/sorting ctiteria like ql/price/cast(s)/material/rarity/rune/etc... interaction could be done at spawn towns or nearest markets to keep the traveling and moving around the map required...

This ofc puts deeds which are far from spawn/markets in disadvantage.. and once again require a craftable deed feature to work with it...

IDK how far this is from the core ideas of wurm tho.. as it's obviously simple to code but.. game have been out there for so long and rewarding traveling and socializing.. trader/merchant npcs are only automated npc features in the game..(am I missing some?)

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

2 hours ago, Yiraia said:

Burn :3

 

I'm so badly burned, I can barely manage to mention how badly that thread went for finnn XD

 

@ErlindurYou're essentially suggesting some kind of formalised ingame trade forum that costs ingame currency for merchants to use?

[Erlindur 63]

1 hour ago, Finnn said:

I don't think so... once the nub figures that 'help' channel is ca-help.. they are going to start asking questions there... CAs usually mention a few ways to make coins.. game does not have guides.. and once it does.. every method listed will be scrapped by noob hordes underbidding etc.. just to make a few coins fast(problem? yup)
 

 

I'm not really sure if you are answering to my post. I had to reread it several times and I still don't know. Who said anything about making coins and bidding? If I'm wrong and this is an answer to some other post, then sorry, I misunderstood.

 

Quote

'how trade works in the game' no auction or trader place.. it's all done by negotiating with people local/trade/pm/gl-/freedom chats or forum threads/pms, is that any different in other games - no, just here you need some way to deliver the goods.. or sometimes put a discount.. to make that buyer come by.. and pick their new items.

 

I don't see how what I propose changes that in any way. What I suggest has exactly the same functionality as a forum trade post but is in game and presented in a way that is very familiar with the way things work in other games. It is more an UI addition (with a small dbase attached to it) than anything else. The only difference is the small fee but we need a mechanism to empty it or it will get bloated as time goes by.

 

10 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

@ErlindurYou're essentially suggesting some kind of formalised ingame trade forum that costs ingame currency for merchants to use?

 

More or less this is what I suggest. And searchable with parameters.  I just want it to feel familiar to newcomers, like an auction house. If it is designed right, it would be great for all of us. And yes, now that I think of it, casting advertisements as well.

[Yiraia 427]

4 hours ago, Finnn said:

Awesome.. games that are nothing like wurm, 'perfect' to compare..  desktop fighter keymasher vs mmo/sandbox.

Once you beat ds/bb/ds, chances to ever run the same game are low..

you stated

6 hours ago, Finnn said:

Tell me 1 game where you can get to top10 in week 2? (if you find one... you'll be bored from it in 2 months)

What i listed were games, and you can get top10 in week 2. If you wanted to know a sandbox where you can become the top 10 in week 2, Then I would have simply said Mortal online. If you join the right guild (I think the guild was PK?) you can get everything you need, just have to learn combat. + Macros are allowed so people don't have to sit down and do every little boring thing. The only reason why i quit Mortal online was because pvp combat was basically jousting on feet. Other than that, it was actually a lot more fun AND cheaper to play than wurm.

4 hours ago, Finnn said:

So you're against any influx of new players into the game, as they're going to spam the chats with FAQs?

No, i said that the game shouldnt be advertised in its current state. if there are 10000 gamers out there jumping around from sandbox to sandbox trying to find a good game and havent heard of wurm online, would you want to advertise it to them now? or wait until there are more interesting features. Odds are, if a person thinks a game was so terribly boring, and assumed it was the theme of the game, they would not come back even if some amazing updates came out. + those weren't FAQ, more like "Wow this is stupid, why is this like this"

[Finnn 3,321]

@ErevornIt's your topic and you started it with the idea to help new players to make some coins or get on the markets with more than bulk goods.
As I explained.. CA-Help's here to mention a few usually, rest is left to them to explore the possibilities, and again... once they figure a way.. as long it's widely spread.. they're going to underbid to sell their items sooner and use the coins one way or another...
Take dirt for example.. so many people dug dirt all day long... that prices started dropping, ofc.. there's chaos new kingdoms etc.. to create bigger demands or some new random deed in need of thousands of dirt to terraform.

 

You could buy a merchant for ~6-10silver.. and use that to place a few items to sell.. you could also put pieces of paper.. with deals and services that you offer(some do that already, not sure if you can read the notes.. but some do rename the objects to name services..)

Also as I said...

4 hours ago, Finnn said:

IDK how far this is from the core ideas of wurm tho.. as it's obviously simple to code but.. game have been out there for so long and rewarding traveling and socializing.. trader/merchant npcs are only automated npc features in the game..(am I missing some?)

 

29 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

you stated

What i listed were games, and you can get top10 in week 2. If you wanted to know a sandbox where you can become the top 10 in week 2, Then I would have simply said Mortal online. If you join the right guild (I think the guild was PK?) you can get everything you need, just have to learn combat. + Macros are allowed so people don't have to sit down and do every little boring thing. The only reason why i quit Mortal online was because pvp combat was basically jousting on feet. Other than that, it was actually a lot more fun AND cheaper to play than wurm.

No, i said that the game shouldnt be advertised in its current state. if there are 10000 gamers out there jumping around from sandbox to sandbox trying to find a good game and havent heard of wurm online, would you want to advertise it to them now? or wait until there are more interesting features. Odds are, if a person thinks a game was so terribly boring, and assumed it was the theme of the game, they would not come back even if some amazing updates came out. + those weren't FAQ, more like "Wow this is stupid, why is this like this"

Learning the game, combat and using macros to be top10 in 1-2weeks.. gotcha.. I'll pass.

Rather achieve things on my own, than getting gear passed to me.. or macroing to imagine that I'm good.

 

Game's either interesting or boring for somebody... We're currently waiting for the new UI, whatever that new default key-map preset's going to be(ofc vets are going to remodel it), new AI for creatures, etc.. there are more changes in the roadmap for this year.

 

[Wurmhole 3,650]

7 hours ago, Yiraia said:

A game that requires skill, not time. Brawlhalla, Dark souls (I - III, demon souls, and bloodborne). As for a game thats more similar to wurm, i recall hearing (could have heard wrong) that Albion is making a system where your character means very little and its all about equipment. Join a nice group and learn how to play, if you are skilled enough i guess you can become the "top 10"

Burn :3

 

I wouldn't wanna see this game marketed to masses at its current state... people will just run away. "How do i get money, theres no quest, I can't get work, these bodies are only worth 11 iron" .."How do i fight this wolf, do i just stand right next to it? Now i just wait, no moves? thats lame" .. The game poses no challenge, just time. A good question first is to ask why the current playerbase plays wurm. My main reason is because it was the first sandbox i played, and I could easily perform another task while i play (homework mostly)

ok, so we don't market in its current form.  That means no marketing?

 

I just don't see how we are supposed to magically get new people at a rate fast enough to grow.  Only a few stay and most leave.  That is the game as it is now.  The few that stay are less than the number of veterans that are leaving.  We have to have a way to bring in more.

 

Just go look at what happens to trade in any city that has a declining population.  When it gets small enough, trade dies, then the city dies. 

 

Been in sales all my life.  When you have a large market potential, you can find buyers and close deals.  When your market is diminishing, you have to find a new market to work, or starve.  I've worked for several awesome companies over the years, which had fantastic products and very loyal customers.  Problem is, they did NOT market well, which did not bring in more new customers and in every case, the company had to either sell out to competition for pennies, or close their doors.

 

Code Club has a fantastic product for the unique player base that we are.  Others will come play, if we can reach them!  If Code Club won't market this game in a significant way, their only hope is for all of us to go sign up in other MMOs, join lots of guilds and tell them all how much we like Wurm (or whatever way we have to reach more people).

 

Any changes to how our market works now, done just for the existing players, is gonna fail, unless we wipe all accounts and start form scratch.  Even then, it would only help for a little while.

 

I've been riding around my small server today and am a little dismayed at how few deeds remain standing, after just being away for 6 months.  Some of the biggest names on my server are popping their deeds. People that love helping new players.  When all the players are veterans, then what?  Hey Bill, you need help with anything?  Nope.