Odynn

Increase valrei charges drop rate.

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Another unique, another humanoid and still no tome. Can we please have some love for the rare humanoids uniques we have and get back the old 100% tome drop on them.

 

Freedom (including Chaos) represents the vast majority of the current Wurm population, the answer that they were meant for Epic and the drop rate should remain low is not really logic or appealing to the community.

 

Having some proper drops would reduce the need to go looking on others servers (which only leads to drama) and would help people reach their goals (either personal ones or the 'personal goals' from the game) within a decent time frame (and not the dozen of years it currently takes).

 

4 humanoids - 5 dragons - 5 hatchlings. one spawn every 2 weeks (+X random days). 50% chances on humanoids, almost inexistant on drakes. Feel free to do the maths and see how badly it fits the current freedom population.

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What I don't understand, is why they can't distribute them like rift items? So like shoulders, blood, drake/scale, it would be a random chance to get it for participation. That said I think yes it should be more common drop rate. I don't really see the need to create a real world cash monopoly out of valrei as well. Currently its required for PvP so make it easier for those people and everyone else who just wants it for vanity's sake. 

 

If balanced they will still sell for a fair price I'm thinking 20s silver like a rare bone.

 

This would also encourage more unique group players to get people to attend there unique hunts instead of private only. 

 

Thanks.

Edited by Niki

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I think they should remain as rare as they are. But that's just me.

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I disagree with a 100% drop rate but I agree that the current rate is extremely low. A little higher would not hurt anyone in my opinion and tomes would still be very rare but at least it would be a little more possible to get them.

Edited by Yldrania

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This should only be a gift from the gods and has to drop from a Valrei scenario, its not even meant to drop from uniques

 

Edit: i guess valrei overhaul gives us new insights in this matter

Edited by LorenaMontana
Im a shitnoob

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Meh, I think its so so on some of the uniques, but for the dragons and drakes the rate seems insanely low to pretty much never will drop.

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8 hours ago, Odynn said:

Having some proper drops would reduce the need to go looking on others servers

 

nah 100% drops pretty sure would just lead to guaranteed camping worse than now because they know they will make the ~$$$MEGABUCKS$$$~

 

still feel they should have been left only on epic, but a bit late for that.  I just don't feel flooding freedom with them further will help

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I don't mind the 50% on the humanoids too much. My issue is, has been and will remain until fixed, with the dragons (particularly hatchlings) being silly unbalanced comparatively. The green and white hatchling are laughable in value compared to all others because they drop so little and their potions are worthless.#


I brought it up a while back here - 

 

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I also feel drakes and dragons would need a better tome chance - still set lower than humanoids as the scale/hide  compensates.

Acid / frost potion should also be fixed as for now they go to the same garbage storage as rift bracelets...

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1 hour ago, Jaz said:

I also feel drakes and dragons would need a better tome chance - still set lower than humanoids as the scale/hide  compensates.

 

At this point and if the loot rate is kept at 50% on humanoids, a 25% on the drakes/dragons would be nice... seeing that the failrate / usual wurm RNG is pretty horrible.

 

Another option is to change the way they works and get arcane knowledge papers/powder/dust/whatever to drop from them and be shared within the slaying group, allowing you to craft the item. Though, this would lead to more private hunts.

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I'd settle at least for just....balance. Some give 1% some give 50%, some give useless potions, some give great ones and some even give the same potions as others despite there being a variety of other options possible for potions that could drop. Drakes require about 3 kills pooled together to make one set (which is half the weight of a scale set) but one dragon kill generally yields enough for a set. It's all just...not quite right.

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They have been a source of great conflict since the start. Unfair to hunters who do all the work to find it, unfair to people who's deed it just trashed. Unfair to the solo person that doesn't have the skill to trap it. Unfair in drops/drop rates. Unfair to people of the home server when other server groups come raiding.  We can't eliminate them, because some would have tomes/hides/blods and others no chance ever.

 

What if everyone ticks a check box in their client profile, to choose a home server. When a unique is killed, every prem* from the home server get's blood/hide/valrei powder.  All trade-able between members of the same home server. Powder is universal. If Odynn's numbers in OP are right, that is 25 uniques per server/year. If we make a stack of 25 powders craftable into a valrei tome (or whatever), then anyone can get 1-2 most desired valrei learned in a reasonable time span for being dedicated to an MMO.  Wealthy players will buy up powder from new players, creating good economy, within the server population. People will prem up more alts, to make a powder grab - good for Code Club.

 

Here is my favorite part: your learned valrei ONLY works on the server it came from.

 

Changing home server possible? Yes, but only every 6 months.

 

*Can anyone "claim" a home server? Only after you have been prem for at least 32 days.  That should prevent the mass alt spamming powder grab.

 

How do you craft a valrei item? You must participate in a unique battle and do some damage, or provide crowd control/healing support for the fighters. When battle is done. you get a special ingredient - combine with 25 powders and choose your valrei reward - non trade-able.

 

What about other trophies?  Make skulls and bones discoverable from digging, mining and wood chopping. Uniques are no longer butcher-able.

 

So, is there incentive for cross server raiding of uniques? Nope.

Is there incentive to horde a unique? Nope.

Is there a totally lame unique? Nope, cause they all contribute something useful now.

Is there incentive to actually participate? Yep

Is it always that "one player" having to manage the roll call and rolling the dice for loot winners? Nope.

 

This will being communities together on their individual servers.  When that horde of elite hunters from Chaos shows up for a hunt, we will be high-5ing them and grateful for the help.  We won't be playing "hide the dragon" anymore.  It won't be abused like RoS and who knows, maybe someday RoS will get tweaked the same way???

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Edited by Wurmhole

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40 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

Here is my favorite part: your learned valrei ONLY works on the server it came from.

 

Changing home server possible? Yes, but only every 6 months.

 

 

This part is absolute no-no for me. Don't "lock" players to a specific server, that is BAD for the game. I'm sure I'm far not the only one enjoying the differences and the smell and flavours of all the servers (oh and I'm a full time carebear, with no PVP history). Better introduce some liveable ship/vehicle for complete mobility like cruising the world in an RV....

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I can't agree with 100% drop on humanoids. Tomes and charges should be extremely rare as they're now. And I really doubt that changing loot distribution to rift like system would help with private hunts, so I wouldn't change it and just leave it as it is. But also i think that drop rate on Drakes/ Dragon could be a bit higher. That really shouldn't hurt rarity of tomes that much, but hunting Dragons would become more tempting than it is actually. 

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4 hours ago, Jaz said:

 

This part is absolute no-no for me. Don't "lock" players to a specific server, that is BAD for the game. I'm sure I'm far not the only one enjoying the differences and the smell and flavours of all the servers (oh and I'm a full time carebear, with no PVP history). Better introduce some liveable ship/vehicle for complete mobility like cruising the world in an RV....

It isn't much of a lock.  Think of it like trying to drag a horse across server borders, or building writs.  The valrei item/spell/benefit just stays on the server when you go to another server.  For PvE, it isn't a game changer.  For PvP, it means more fighting on Chaos to keep the other factions from getting in on a kill.  It would make unique hunts on Chaos a lot more meaningful, or so I imagine.

 

Also, in PvE, how much does Valrei really matter?  Slight bump in a resistance, along with a slight dip in resistance?  Maybe a cool spell to eat up our karma?  I have Summon Warg.  Pretty much cringe casting it, knowing that is a chunk of karma that will take months to replace, with the new source reductions.

Edited by Wurmhole

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2 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

It isn't much of a lock.  Think of it like trying to drag a horse across server borders, or building writs.  The valrei item/spell/benefit just stays on the server when you go to another server.  For PvE, it isn't a game changer.  For PvP, it means more fighting on Chaos to keep the other factions from getting in on a kill.  It would make unique hunts on Chaos a lot more meaningful, or so I imagine.

 

That is a silly idea

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5 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

They have been a source of great conflict since the start. Unfair to hunters who do all the work to find it, unfair to people who's deed it just trashed. Unfair to the solo person that doesn't have the skill to trap it. Unfair in drops/drop rates. Unfair to people of the home server when other server groups come raiding.  We can't eliminate them, because some would have tomes/hides/blods and others no chance ever.

 

What if everyone ticks a check box in their client profile, to choose a home server. When a unique is killed, every prem* from the home server get's blood/hide/valrei powder.  All trade-able between members of the same home server. Powder is universal. If Odynn's numbers in OP are right, that is 25 uniques per server/year. If we make a stack of 25 powders craftable into a valrei tome (or whatever), then anyone can get 1-2 most desired valrei learned in a reasonable time span for being dedicated to an MMO.  Wealthy players will buy up powder from new players, creating good economy, within the server population. People will prem up more alts, to make a powder grab - good for Code Club.

 

Here is my favorite part: your learned valrei ONLY works on the server it came from.

 

Changing home server possible? Yes, but only every 6 months.

 

*Can anyone "claim" a home server? Only after you have been prem for at least 32 days.  That should prevent the mass alt spamming powder grab.

 

How do you craft a valrei item? You must participate in a unique battle and do some damage, or provide crowd control/healing support for the fighters. When battle is done. you get a special ingredient - combine with 25 powders and choose your valrei reward - non trade-able.

 

What about other trophies?  Make skulls and bones discoverable from digging, mining and wood chopping. Uniques are no longer butcher-able.

 

So, is there incentive for cross server raiding of uniques? Nope.

Is there incentive to horde a unique? Nope.

Is there a totally lame unique? Nope, cause they all contribute something useful now.

Is there incentive to actually participate? Yep

Is it always that "one player" having to manage the roll call and rolling the dice for loot winners? Nope.

 

This will being communities together on their individual servers.  When that horde of elite hunters from Chaos shows up for a hunt, we will be high-5ing them and grateful for the help.  We won't be playing "hide the dragon" anymore.  It won't be abused like RoS and who knows, maybe someday RoS will get tweaked the same way???

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

i like this.

go to another server, find the unique, pen it. if they want it, let them pay a solid amount of cash.

if they switch to your server? find the unique, pen it, make them pay too.

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17 minutes ago, Arium said:

i like this.

go to another server, find the unique, pen it. if they want it, let them pay a solid amount of cash.

if they switch to your server? find the unique, pen it, make them pay too.

Griefing.  Would be no different than building a wall around someone's deed or house.

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6 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

bones discoverable from digging

Already the case, still have to get one myself, randomness in wurm means sometimes (or all the times) you get screwed.

 

6 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

Here is my favorite part: your learned valrei ONLY works on the server it came from.

Sorry but no, not only locking people on a server is bad, but people will be able to buy them from any servers according to that suggestion, not sure it will help anyone else than the wealthy... which is already the case.

 

3 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

Griefing.  Would be no different than building a wall around someone's deed or house.

Sorry, but no, just like the RoS casts being ninja-ed, there will be no repercusion for that... so yes, that's another loophole in your suggestion.

 

Even if your suggestion have some interest (server uniques being hunted on the server by the server members to only quote one), there are too many limitations taking away our current freedom or relying on the economy part... and new economy systems usually end up the same way, some people abusing a large amount.

 

36 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

Also, in PvE, how much does Valrei really matter?

About as much as everything else in the game matters to someone, it's either a boost in resistance for someone, pursuing a goal to someone else, trying to be more powerful and so on. Because you do not see a use for it doesn't mean someone else do as well.

 

6 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

If Odynn's numbers in OP are right, that is 25 uniques per server/year.

 

5 hours ago, Alkhadias said:

Tomes and charges should be extremely rare as they're now.

 

Closer to 26 uniques if everything goes properly (52 weeks - divided by 2 weeks each... never going to happen of course.)

4/14 (or 29%) might drop something at 50% chance, not counting the dragon-kin seeing we never ever had a drop from them on deliverance.

So, on those 26 uniques, 8 will be humanoids (yah, rounded up again), which means that you might get 4 tomes per years.

A tome is 3 charges. Uniques can be taken down by a small group of players, but closer to a dozen more frequently... which in the end get the active hunters/slayers to one charge per years.

Looking up on the pedia, you will see that you have 14 charges.

 

Now with those maths in mind and knowing it's not the perfect world where you have decent odds, do you really think that 14 years to gather them all by playing normally is realistic? (Usual game odds push us way past the 20 years mark, seeing what we had once again on deliverance so far).

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15 minutes ago, Odynn said:

which means that you might get 4 tomes per years.

 

You know there is more servers than just deliverance right?

 

 

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27 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

You know there is more servers than just deliverance right?

 

And I also know that going to hunt on others servers and 'steal' their uniques only create drama and is not a solution. And since I'm not one of those 'uniques thief' I base my reports on what happens on 'my' server, which is Deliverance.

 

Going to hunt on another server only lower the locals' amounts of charge per years, which is already insanely low. Basic maths prove it should be tweaked upward, not downward and only suggesting more drama as a solution.

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The trouble is you have a VERY high value drop ($100 real cash equivalent), which creates a lot of competition:

  • Any attempt to localise the loot (with a diffusion factor based on group size) simply leads to the current situation.
  • Globalising the reward also has problems (alt farming, visiting hunters, ridiculous restrictions etc).
  • Introducing alternative methods of obtaining tomes would lower their value, something those who currently hunt them would be very strongly against.

The various player opinions are as follows:

  • The non-hunter population are too bitter to give the hunters a break (in their eyes, all they'd be doing is further enriching a small section of the player base which is already insanely wealthy/overpowered)
  • Tthe hunter population want to hold on to an advantage they work very hard to obtain (unique finding and penning is not easy work, there is also a significant investment in gear and metagaming)
  • Those who are indifferent take one look at the drama and walk away because they don't want to anger either group.

I can't +1 this because I can't see the benefit to the majority of wurm players (it would just push hunts further into the realm of private).  I'd be loathe to -1 it though; since I know too well the frustration of items that don't drop (Nependeath honey on maplestory, bolt cleric edition).

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23 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

I can't see the benefit to the majority of wurm players (it would just push hunts further into the realm of private)

 

Drop increase would make them more accessible, opening them to a large base, be it through slaying (which I honestly hope) or by lowering the market value, making them in the end less interesting to privately pen and slay.

 

You are right however that the whole situation is a mess that need proper balance. Knowing that ALL the uniques used to drop them at 100% chance untill someone abused the situation (stealing from the corpses, bragging about having all the charges) and led to that huge nerf... a bit like the recent gardening tweak.

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I always hate these arguments that improving/balancing uniques will "lead to more private kills". No we'll have the same amount we always do because we already have tonnes and peoples personalities and views on their rights to what they hunted and found won't change all that much just because the system was changed. However no matter how you look at it...more people would be getting something out of the hunts than before, which as has been discussed above would be good because a decade of constantly attending unique hunts in wurm isn't exactly balanced to collect them all.

 

In all these years, since the days of the first hunts the only time private slayings changed in a noticable way was with the addition of "you get an item for being in local" which caused most slayings to get more people invited but dragon slayings often less. In those cases....the chance of a tome dropping being better wouldn't change a thing. Better potions would just increase attendance in general and more hide from drakes would just make sense however you look at what it would do for attendance because they're damned unbalanced atm.

 

All that happens out of this is more people get something overall. So the discussion at hand is...should they? Well i'd personally argue that Odynn has explained pretty conclusively that tomes are insanely hard to come by and i've had a thread since a year ago outlining the reasons why the hide and potion drops need changing.


Basicaly what i'm saying is I literally can't see ANY decent argument why the potions and hide changes shouldn't just HAPPEN NOW. As they should have a long time ago and all we're really arguing here is "what would more tomes circulating do to the game and playerbase". Personally i'd say....nothing bad. The proportion of players who have none of them, let alone a few  is huge compared to those who've actually been lucky enough to see a tome. I've played for 10 years and never got one lol.

Edited by Nadroj

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