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Niki

Embarking Bug, and Memory Leaks

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how hard would it be to recode the embark code. its been 2 years with the bug. so an alternate code would take how long?

if you cant find it, redo it somewhat differently.

 

also for the expert mechanic, i would say, yes he would be able to find what is wrong with the car. a noise every 15k miles is

probably something they put in the trunk every few months or so, if it was mechanical it would happen more often, and theres

all kinds of tools to pinpoint faulty components. not the best example.  (im a mechanic, or was, retired)

 

inb4 my redo the freaking code gets scoffed at.

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@Retrogrademy post wasn't directed at the staff, was to the commentors in this post(i just re read my comment) and wanted it to not sound snarky towards you all.

Was more curious as to see if the people in this post got the same embark issue I always see in wu

Edited by Brew
Hit enter too fast heh

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I recently had to go through a very nasty version of the embark bug. And although usually logging off and back in fixes it, it did not do it this time, and it seems to become a common occurrence.

 

I was hopping servers to Chaos and back from Chaos. (Xanadu -> Exodus -> Cele - Deli - Chaos, then back to Deli) and ended up with the embark bug after I dropped into the water to use my compass, and hopped back on. Upon relogging I would be able to jump off the ship and back on but only once. The next time I hopped off and back on it would bug me out again. This persisted until I logged off for /lotime.

 

I have a feeling that some versions of this bug might be related to hopping servers (similar to when you cross a server and get stuck because your boat went to boat limbo). It might also be related to positioning (lag from server when it tells you to move slower). With carts it happens to me more often in Xanadu.

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17 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

you bring your car to the mechanic, tell him it makes a weird noise once every 10-15k miles and ask him to fix it.  he cannot fix what he cannot find is wrong

you take it to an expert mechanic, tell him the same thing.  he is magically better and finds what is wron-  oh.. no he cannot find it either

 

it's not a flat tire with a nail in it that anyone can find within 10 seconds and pull it out and fix.  you can call it acceptable or unacceptable, it doesn't change facts

As an actual mechanic, the frequency at which this happens is astonishing. Simply saying "this makes a noise, fix it" isn't helpful. This is rather similar to the embark bug. If you cannot pinpoint the exact cause of it, it's going to take a while to diagnose the cause of the issue.

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9 minutes ago, Firestarter said:

As an actual mechanic, the frequency at which this happens is astonishing. Simply saying "this makes a noise, fix it" isn't helpful. This is rather similar to the embark bug. If you cannot pinpoint the exact cause of it, it's going to take a while to diagnose the cause of the issue.

The thing is a lot of reports have already been recorded elsewhere on these very forums and ingame, irc so on and so forth. For example waiting until you leave the world and trying again. That was fairly common knowledge but apparently not for the DEVs? You know how terrible it is for the PVP crowd? You're basically incapacitated and easy pickings for your enemy. 

 

I question them because as a player I see no improvements with these issues over the past 2-3 years now. Why is the staff comfortable with this though? It's serious, I rather a year of bug fixes then any content being added. 

 

It comes down to can you fix it, or can't you. If you can't, the solution should be asking for help elsewhere. Hire more people or offer a reward to the community for a fix, a lot of intelligent players here so try using it. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Niki said:

It comes down to can you fix it, or can't you. If you can't, the solution should be asking for help elsewhere. Hire more people or offer a reward to the community for a fix, a lot of intelligent players here so try using it. 

 

 

I agree with this.  That's why I'm wondering if Wurm Unlimited has this same issue and if so hope someone in the community finds the bad code and comes up with a fix.

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18 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

you bring your car to the mechanic, tell him it makes a weird noise once every 10-15k miles and ask him to fix it.  he cannot fix what he cannot find is wrong

you take it to an expert mechanic, tell him the same thing.  he is magically better and finds what is wron-  oh.. no he cannot find it either

 

it's not a flat tire with a nail in it that anyone can find within 10 seconds and pull it out and fix.  you can call it acceptable or unacceptable, it doesn't change facts

 

edit: angel, you don't have to relog for /lotime as long as you don't try to disembark, just relog right away once you get the bug and it should be fine

You bring it to a mechanic who actually cares about fixing cars and money Will come in because of it.. He tells you you need to leave the car with him for a few days and that he will take it out for a few drives in between other cars... That mechanic actually finds the issue because he cared to spend some time to actually look. 

 

Or do you like using the mechanic that asks you well what do you think is wrong with the car? Do you know how to fix it as well? Tell me how and I'll charge you full price like I would if I actually did my job. 

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So many mechanics on the forums.. sadly.. it's not a vehicle problem, figure a way to replicate the glitch, report in detail, and it's going to be fixed as you read somewhere around all the imaginary car problems.<_<

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The embark bug, when active, prevents movement.

 

A character can look around, but wasd might as well have been made of stone.

 

If there is anything that prevents movement after teleportation, it might be worth looking into.

 

Really what is needed is a clear indicator of what code was changed when the bug showed up.

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3 hours ago, Firestarter said:

As an actual mechanic, the frequency at which this happens is astonishing. Simply saying "this makes a noise, fix it" isn't helpful. This is rather similar to the embark bug. If you cannot pinpoint the exact cause of it, it's going to take a while to diagnose the cause of the issue.

 

I was actually going to say something regarding noise, so I'm going to use your comment as a segway/excuse ;)

 

This is surely completely unrelated, so sorry to the folks who are going to get frustrated but...

 

The only bug I've experienced very regularly regarding carts and boats is the sound.

  • Boats -- if I hop in from the water, the swimming sound never stops.  No matter what.  Hop in from land and no swimming sound problem.
  • Carts -- particularly inside a house, and I think mostly stopping after going backwards... but the "rolling wheels" sound never stops.  Often even if I hop off the cart itself.

Now the reason I mention these things is because I've had a number of other games outright crash, freeze, etc. because of sound related issues.  Sometimes the fix in those was as easy  as lowering the number of concurrent sounds or channels (not saying that's the case here, just that it proved to me those issues were sound related).  The more complex the soundscape, the worse the issue type of thing.  In those instances.

 

Again, more than very likely completely irrelevant and to be discarded, but since this is such an elusive bug, I figured I'd throw that out there.  I have seen sound issues related to vehicles in Wurm, and have had sound issues cripple other games... so just in case.

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I bet the problem would be easy to fix. Everyone go buy  the same computers with same memory same browsers and same video cards. Also, make sure you all live in same country with exact same internet.    Not easy to fix when you have to account for all the different situations that contribute to it.  I am sure they are doing the best they can. And it seems not everyone is having the problem so if they fix for some they may break it for others.  I know it is frustrating.  But I can't imagine how frustrationg it must be for them.

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5 hours ago, Niki said:

It's serious, I rather a year of bug fixes then any content being added. 

 

+1   A hold on new content and a year of serious sit down to find and fix bugs would be great.   Fix long standing problems before adding new stuff(and new problems)  please.  Pretty pretty please.  

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Like I said before, I have a feeling the bug is position related. We all know the amount of positioning issues that the game has: I have loaded 3 clients and seen all my characters standing in different places from where their client indicates they are standing. May it be that the game breaks when you try to board when not supposed to? Could be a server/client communication issue.

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I'm not sure if it's at all related, but I had a time just a couple days back where I happened to lag a smidge while I was walking...and went to hop on my cart and got a thing where it would let me disembark, but anytime I tried to move from the spot I disembarked to...it would teleport me back to the spot I disembarked at. But I was able to hop back on my cart and move around and wasn't getting teleported back or anything...but anytime I disembarked...it kept repeatedly teleporting me back to the same spot...over and over and over again, no matter what direction I moved. But I could keep getting on the cart and move around just fine on it. I ended up mentioning it in chat and people just suggested I log out...so I logged for about 5 minutes and read news and came back and it wasn't doing it anymore.

I think I've only ever seen what you people are referring to like once or twice, and it seemed like it locked up/lagged up for a bit after embarking, but eventually it managed to pull through/let me move again. But for a short bit there, WASD didn't work at all. Like it was having trouble recognizing that I'd teleported from where I was, to where I should be in the game.

 

I have what amounts to a top end gaming rig (Built it myself) and run almost all settings on high/extreme though, so maybe the problem is something in systems that aren't 'up to snuff'?

 

I managed to fall into a repeating teleport loop due to falling off one of my 220 slope plateau edges onto a fence down below and toggling climbing on at that exact moment also...so the game certainly has troubles with teleportation. Was only able to get out of that loop by logging off for /lotime also.

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On 26/05/2017 at 9:57 AM, Budda said:

 

See now this is useful information. More of this type of thing - if you have it happen to you often enough, try and figure out what steps you can do to reproduce it and let us know. The thing that's stopping us from fixing it atm is FINDING it, and I can't find it if I can't reproduce it at least semi-reliably locally. The above is new information to me, so i can use that to see if I can repro it after a reconnect. Anyone else that gets it regularly, can you also try and take note of when it happens - whether its after a fresh login or only after a reconnect like platinumteef. If we can narrow it down to specific circumstances, we can get this fixed a lot faster.

 

On 26/05/2017 at 9:20 AM, platinumteef said:

zero have been from fresh logins, literally every time its after I disconnect and reconnect without fully leaving world

its so predictable that when we take a 5 man boat to another server which simulates reconnecting without fully leaving the world, all 5 of the players suffer embark bugs 80%+ of the time until we force everyone to sit and wait 5 minutes logged out on an enemy server until everyone leaves the world

 

And nope on that one

On 26/05/2017 at 1:58 AM, MrGARY said:

edit: angel, you don't have to relog for /lotime as long as you don't try to disembark, just relog right away once you get the bug and it should be fine

Usually a quick relog will lead to another embarking bug soon after.

 

Server crossings are particullary nasty for those bugs. Fill a boat with alts (or friends), cross back and forth a few times and it will happen. Interestingly, almost always with the passengers and never the captain. (Boats crossing might lead to others issues were the passengers are booted out of it before / after the crossing, might be unrelated... or tied to it.)

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Today' embark bug, hopefully helps to more easily reproduce the issue:

Commander on a cart, accidentally loading over to a new client (wanted to log in an alt and instead logged in with the already online toon).

Stayed as commander, could move around but when disembarked a bit later and tried to embark as passenger the camera freeze shown.

EDIT: reproduced with forcefully reloading on top of the toon with a new client while riding. First ride command worked right, second time I got freezed (after 5-10 min of riding).

EDIT2: reproduced again, same method but this time I embarked a knarr as passenger in the end. I could reembark the horse 3-4 times without issue beforehand. It seems to me it needs some time before the bug appears.

Messages (with the same timestamp):

You are teleporting and cannot perform actions right now.

Teleporting

Edited by Jaz
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I had the bug again last night after capping a tower on chaos while trying to get back on my horse. Persisted all through the night. Got fixed when I logged off for /lotime. Every single time I got off my horse and back on it. I'm just glad enemies were not in local, else I would had lost everything.

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On 5/26/2017 at 2:52 PM, MaurizioAM said:

You bring it to a mechanic who actually cares about fixing cars and money Will come in because of it.. He tells you you need to leave the car with him for a few days and that he will take it out for a few drives in between other cars... That mechanic actually finds the issue because he cared to spend some time to actually look. 

 

You and others are missing the point though.  Devs have spent time trying to reproduce it.  I do volunteer testing/qa for the same devs and I have tried to as well.  The problem is, on live I have gotten embark bug maybe a max of 20-25 times in the last 3 years, and experiences differ.  Normally for me a quick relog fixes it for good with rare chance I have to leave world to fix it, but for others it only fixes for good when leaving world.  I've had it embarking from distance, I've had it on fresh login and on reconnect, I've had it standing on top of a horse, it happens to me on horse most and not a single time on boats crossing servers as captain or passenger

 

What is the difference between someone that gets it 5 times a year or 5 times a day?  Is it settings? PC specs?  Network connection?  The position of the moon in orbit?  Who knows and without devs being able to reproduce it on demand, it cannot be diagnosed.  This doesn't mean anyone is content with the bug existing or finding it acceptable.  I'd also feel like if it was so simple to just ask someone else to fix it all the code geniuses would have found something by now

Edited by MrGARY
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1 hour ago, MrGARY said:

 

You and others are missing the point though.  Devs have spent time trying to reproduce it.  I do volunteer testing/qa for the same devs and I have tried to as well.  The problem is, on live I have gotten embark bug maybe a max of 20-25 times in the last 3 years, and experiences differ.  Normally for me a quick relog fixes it for good with rare chance I have to leave world to fix it, but for others it only fixes for good when leaving world.  I've had it embarking from distance, I've had it on fresh login and on reconnect, I've had it standing on top of a horse, it happens to me on horse most and not a single time on boats crossing servers as captain or passenger

 

What is the difference between someone that gets it 5 times a year or 5 times a day?  Is it settings? PC specs?  Network connection?  The position of the moon in orbit?  Who knows and without devs being able to reproduce it on demand, it cannot be diagnosed.  This doesn't mean anyone is content with the bug existing or finding it acceptable.  I'd also feel like if it was so simple to just ask someone else to fix it all the code geniuses would have found something by now

I suggested a campaign a few posts back to get more people with code knowledge or even bug breaking to see if they solve it. Possibly even offer a reward for anyone to crack it. I do think this should be prioritized.

 

Also you can't assume you're the best mechanic in the world, and say the problem is unfixable.  Not allowing anyone else have at it is just a mistake; but progress wont be without cost. “By asking for the impossible we obtain the best possible.”

 

That's cool you test the game and offer QA support. I wasn't aware there was a special task force for that. Would be nice if that was open to the public however aside from test. Same opinions all the time create no progress!

 

The answer hasn't changed though, get more people on board and fix it. Simple.

Edited by Niki

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20 minutes ago, Niki said:

Also you can't assume you're the best mechanic in the world, and say the problem is unfixable. 

Nobody has said it's unfixable, just that it's difficult to pinpoint what the cause is.

 

Quote

That's cool you test the game and offer QA support. I wasn't aware there was a special task force for that. Would be nice if that was open to the public however aside from test. Same opinions all the time create no progress!

 

That seems like it could be an issue, in my eyes, especially when it comes to abusable and/or sensitive bugs. Opening these up to everyone to test also opens them up to further abuse if they're made public.

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16 minutes ago, Firestarter said:

That seems like it could be an issue, in my eyes, especially when it comes to abusable and/or sensitive bugs. Opening these up to everyone to test also opens them up to further abuse if they're made public.

My experience has been that usually a few groups of players "always" know when there's bugs worth abusing,  I've often wondered how come.

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1 hour ago, Pingpong said:

My experience has been that usually a few groups of players "always" know when there's bugs worth abusing,  I've often wondered how come.

my experience knowing a lot of these groups, they usually abuse them a year after reporting them because they don't get fixed, in most cases, until they are blatantly and heavily abused. not to mention up until recently, 99% of the people who abused anything didn't even get so much as a verbal warning.

 

 

Embark bug isn't related, its just a heavy inconvenience that has been around for over two years now. (also the leading cause of death on the pvp server is people getting the embark bug, which is just shitty when the only way your game gets pvp is because people crash)

Edited by Propheteer
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Just an update: now that we've actually had a couple of people send us info with the steps they found to reproduce it - we've been able to reproduce it at will on test and local servers. Fix for it will be soon. Thanks to those that managed to find those steps and send them to us.

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3 hours ago, Propheteer said:

my experience knowing a lot of these groups, they usually abuse them a year after reporting them because they don't get fixed, in most cases, until they are blatantly and heavily abused. not to mention up until recently, 99% of the people who abused anything didn't even get so much as a verbal warning.

 

 

Embark bug isn't related, its just a heavy inconvenience that has been around for over two years now. (also the leading cause of death on the pvp server is people getting the embark bug, which is just shitty when the only way your game gets pvp is because people crash)

I love this game and have the outmost respect for our staff and our  volunteers. But I can't understand how does a game breaking bug goes unfixed for so long. Imagine this. I spend 100 euros buying my drake set along with my shiney new glimmer huge axe. I jump into my boat and head to Chaos. I sneak up to an enemy deed and find one of them cutting wood. I make quick work on him, loot the corpse, make my way back to my boat to flee and... Embark bug. His buddies catch up while I am trying to relog. 100e down the drain: not because I took a risk and lost or because I got bested, but because of a game bug. A common game bug. Added to the constant crashes when you have 15x15 battles, or laggy areas, this had made many people give up on the pvp aspects of the game.

 

The fact that this has been going unfixed for years is not acceptable. Players who are avid pvpers that have decided to stay have had to plan their pvp around these game breaking bugs. We are not talking about visual artifacts, or annoying sounds or even inconvenient positioning issues, we are talking about the difference between winning a fight and loosing a fight is often a system bug. After 2-3 years of the dev team saying "we are working on it", people dont want to hear it anymore. 

 

If the issue cannot be found after such a long time, then perhaps the answer lies in recreating the code anew. Putting the coding efforts elsewhere is not okay, and I doubt the team has been working on this for over two years dilligently, it just makes no sense. Like many have suggested before, perhaps its time to stop making new content for a while (most of it which has been cosmetic in nature recently) and tackle those game breaking bugs that keep chasing your loyal playerbase away.

 

I love this game. I love the people, the devs, the staff... but we are playing a game with so many bugs that makes it feel like a game on Alpha stage. Its not fair guys. If my credit card has a bug and I am unable to pay for my premium time, telling you "I'm working on it" for two years is not going to cut it. You wont waste any time in cutting off my premium time. We are asking for the same treatment: nothing less, nothing more. Is that too much to ask?

 

***EDIT*** Well damn, I'll eat my shoe.. just as I pressed sent Budda posts that... WhT are the stinking odds?

Edited by Angelklaine
Foot in mouth disease.
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