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Rohgahr

Gelding of animals.

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This all sounds like a reasonable suggestion.  I'm not sure about the price of 5 speed horses (thanks alliance buddies!), but I assume that the price of ungelded 5 speeds ain' going to budge. This just opens up opportunities for cheap people who aren't interested in AH (like me!) to buy gelded horses for cheaper.

 

It's a win/win. 

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-1 it has been suggested before, and it has always been met with overwhelming resistance.

 

Instead of asking for such a mechanical restrictions, why dont you just sell either male or female horses, if you dont want the "competition" breeding your horses ?

 

There, problem solved, Ill send you the bill.

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Too much Dev coding invested for too little benefit. Horse prices are set by player competition so no doubt "un-gelded" horses would be the more desirable and the market for the "gelded" ones would be minimal. The only thing that would make them attractive would be an even lower price, self defeating the concept.

 

At least the suggestion got you to create a forum account though, so maybe worthwhile in that respect. Time will tell...

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes
mistook

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5 hours ago, Rathgar said:

Instead of asking for such a mechanical restrictions, why dont you just sell either male or female horses, if you dont want the "competition" breeding your horses 

"All traits are put into the gene pool when breeding and those of the parents will increase the chance of the offspring having the same. Should both parents have the same trait the likelihood of the offspring gaining that trait is even higher." -Wiki

 

You don't need a breeding pair to get a hefty boost in making your own five speeds, only 1 (as the wiki states). Having a breeding pair just makes it faster

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On 26/5/2017 at 1:50 PM, Yiraia said:

"All traits are put into the gene pool when breeding and those of the parents will increase the chance of the offspring having the same. Should both parents have the same trait the likelihood of the offspring gaining that trait is even higher." -Wiki

 

You don't need a breeding pair to get a hefty boost in making your own five speeds, only 1 (as the wiki states). Having a breeding pair just makes it faster

 

You are really looking down on your non-existant competitor, if you think he is so far from developing 5-speed technology.

 

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14 hours ago, Rathgar said:

 

You are really looking down on your non-existant competitor, if you think he is so far from developing 5-speed technology.

 

Have you yourself made 5 speed horses from scratch? Its not easy. And i bought 5 speed horses and i only have 1-2speed horses. After buying them we made more 5 speeds easily. I have no clue how you guys played this game, but if you think 5 speeds are easy to get then you obviously havent made any yourself out of wild horses, or got extremely lucky.

On 2017-5-26 at 0:42 PM, Ayes said:

Too much Dev coding invested for too little benefit. Horse prices are set by player competition so no doubt "un-gelded" horses would be the more desirable and the market for the "gelded" ones would be minimal. The only thing that would make them attractive would be an even lower price, self defeating the concept.

No doubt the un-gelded horses would be more desirable but the gelded ones wouldnt be "minimal" at least to me. Animals live for a long time, and if they are taken care of are supposed to live indefinitely with some bugs on the side (correct?) I bought 4spd hell horses and they were AMAZING, but didn't have the taming to take care of them so i used them till aged. Regular Horses can be hitched longer than aged (all the way till death/care for bugs) and i would GLADLY pay for 2 5 speed gelded horses at adolescent. Think about it like a car, No doubt everybody wants the best car. One that can last forever. But then budgets cut in and say they can only afford something else. 

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-1. If this was an option in game people would simply not buy horses from whoever willingly sells gimped animals. I can def see this work if there was some sort of advantage to the buyer for owning said gimped animals though, like a speed bonus etc etc, then people would actually have an incentive to go out and buy gimped animals.

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9 hours ago, Yiraia said:

Have you yourself made 5 speed horses from scratch? Its not easy. And i bought 5 speed horses and i only have 1-2speed horses. After buying them we made more 5 speeds easily. I have no clue how you guys played this game, but if you think 5 speeds are easy to get then you obviously havent made any yourself out of wild horses, or got extremely lucky.

No doubt the un-gelded horses would be more desirable but the gelded ones wouldnt be "minimal" at least to me. Animals live for a long time, and if they are taken care of are supposed to live indefinitely with some bugs on the side (correct?) I bought 4spd hell horses and they were AMAZING, but didn't have the taming to take care of them so i used them till aged. Regular Horses can be hitched longer than aged (all the way till death/care for bugs) and i would GLADLY pay for 2 5 speed gelded horses at adolescent. Think about it like a car, No doubt everybody wants the best car. One that can last forever. But then budgets cut in and say they can only afford something else. 

 

Actually I did start from wild horses, but then some lovely neighbors gifted me with 4speed horses. If I had to start all over, Id probably just pick any of the 4speed horses that people throw in the trashbin. Or leave to roam freely because they are not perfect.

Im amazed that you would GLADLY pay for defective wares, maybe that is why the horse breeding business is not being as profitable.

 

Instead of comparing it to a real life car, wich is absurd, how about you compare it to a Wurm tool, wich is more similar.

Just imagine, crafters selling tools, weapons and armors that CANT be imped or fixed, just disposable.  Would you like that to become the norm?  Im sure a lot of crafters would enjoy people hooked to their wares as if it was heroin, but I dont see crafters asking for that insanely douche move.

And sure, you can keep a horse forever if you care for it, but only if that couple of horses are the only animals you have, I personally rather care for more interesting animals, and keep the workhorses on rotation if they must.

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13 minutes ago, Rathgar said:

Just imagine, crafters selling tools, weapons and armors that CANT be imped or fixed, just disposable.  Would you like that to become the norm?  Im sure a lot of crafters would enjoy people hooked to their wares as if it was heroin, but I dont see crafters asking for that insanely douche move.

did you even think twice before saying this... If a player with 90 blacksmithing sells someone a 90ql tool and the buyer has 30 skill in blacksmithing then it CANT be imped back to 90 by the buyer, and when repaired its just gonna plummet. Whoever that buyer is can consider it disposable after reaching 30ql. That IS already the norm. a player with 90AH selling 5 speed horses to a buyer with 30 AH can easily make mores 4s+ horses (known from experience, just breed and wait, no work). Its not an insanely douche move, its getting a skilled player to sell you valuable material. This post is asking animal husbandry to behave like the current system, and everybody's answer is...

3 hours ago, Legios said:

-1. If this was an option in game people would simply not buy horses from whoever willingly sells gimped animals.

... even though it is not implemented, and the playerbase has not decided on a price. If the gimped animals were cheaper than the breeding pair (which is the point) I would gladly purchase them.

 

25 minutes ago, Rathgar said:

I personally rather care for more interesting animals

eww, more function from current animals. Less new animals that just bite and bruise.

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Well in all honesty, a normal horse 5 speed goes for about 15-20c at the moment, any cheaper and there won't really be an incentive for people to bother making stables/breeding. I could be wrong though, but that is just my opinion.

I've played Wurm for a while and I've encountered some amazing people, and I know anybody who played or is currently playing knows a few amazing people too. The first thing you encounter nowadays is someone willing to throw horses at you especially if you're a new player. So this idea would be very redundant and would only highlight those out there looking to monopolize the horse market (if you try to execute such monopolization you will be put on everyone's bad list), although I'll say that for this to even remotely work.. they would really need to think in ways to make these animals unique in order to make them desirable. 

 

Edited by Legios
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2 hours ago, Yiraia said:

did you even think twice before saying this... If a player with 90 blacksmithing sells someone a 90ql tool and the buyer has 30 skill in blacksmithing then it CANT be imped back to 90 by the buyer, and when repaired its just gonna plummet. Whoever that buyer is can consider it disposable after reaching 30ql. That IS already the norm. a player with 90AH selling 5 speed horses to a buyer with 30 AH can easily make mores 4s+ horses (known from experience, just breed and wait, no work). Its not an insanely douche move, its getting a skilled player to sell you valuable material. This post is asking animal husbandry to behave like the current system, and everybody's answer is...

... even though it is not implemented, and the playerbase has not decided on a price. If the gimped animals were cheaper than the breeding pair (which is the point) I would gladly purchase them.

 

eww, more function from current animals. Less new animals that just bite and bruise.

 

You are not asking for AH to behave like the rest of the skills, you are asking to put a permanent lock on the wares you trade in particularly.  From experience, re-imping tools has always cost me a fraction of the tool value, if anything at all.  Saying that you can "consider it disposable" is a judgement on your side, wich I think is erroneous, while your proposal is to turn the wares that you deal with, factually disposable.

 

Also, saying that breeding is as easy as breathing is not making a point for the horse breeders, you want a monopoly over goods that cost you no work at all.  It gets douchier by the minute.

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5 hours ago, Rathgar said:

From experience, re-imping tools has always cost me a fraction of the tool value, if anything at all.  Saying that you can "consider it disposable" is a judgement on your side, wich I think is erroneous, while your proposal is to turn the wares that you deal with, factually disposable.

"has always cost ME a fraction of the tool value". This is because that is YOU, i clearly stated in my comparison that a person bought a 90ql tool with 30blacksmithing skill. That player is not going to be able to improve it back to 90 and improving from 30-90 is usually about the same price. iirc 50+ is usually when people make discounts, so purchasing an imp to 90ql would be just like buying a new one. 

 

5 hours ago, Rathgar said:

Also, saying that breeding is as easy as breathing is not making a point for the horse breeders, you want a monopoly over goods that cost you no work at all.  It gets douchier by the minute.

The method of breeding is easy but time consuming. reaching a reasonable level in faith for a priest, or reaching the skill needed in meditation to advance is all easy but time consuming. I have no reason to monopolize the animal breeding industry, I don't even raise animal husbandry. Infact i clearly stated that i would BUY gelded horses just so i don't have to manage them. my animal deed ratio is no longer optimal because i have a bunch of 4s+ laying around my deed (after buying a breeding pair) and i would love to, instead, buy gelded horses so i only need to buy what i need and care for them to have them as long as i can, and buy more whenever i need it. benefits of that over non-gelded is the price, which means a lot to a poor dude like me. Stop being a pessimist and assuming that I am making an attempt to leech money from people.

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5 hours ago, Yiraia said:

"has always cost ME a fraction of the tool value". This is because that is YOU, i clearly stated in my comparison that a person bought a 90ql tool with 30blacksmithing skill. That player is not going to be able to improve it back to 90 and improving from 30-90 is usually about the same price. iirc 50+ is usually when people make discounts, so purchasing an imp to 90ql would be just like buying a new one. 

 

The method of breeding is easy but time consuming. reaching a reasonable level in faith for a priest, or reaching the skill needed in meditation to advance is all easy but time consuming. I have no reason to monopolize the animal breeding industry, I don't even raise animal husbandry. Infact i clearly stated that i would BUY gelded horses just so i don't have to manage them. my animal deed ratio is no longer optimal because i have a bunch of 4s+ laying around my deed (after buying a breeding pair) and i would love to, instead, buy gelded horses so i only need to buy what i need and care for them to have them as long as i can, and buy more whenever i need it. benefits of that over non-gelded is the price, which means a lot to a poor dude like me. Stop being a pessimist and assuming that I am making an attempt to leech money from people.

Those horses didn't magically start breeding. You made the choice to try to breed them.  You bought what you needed and can care for them as you choose.  The bunch of 4s+ you have "lying around" are your own failures as a breeder which you haven't simply put down.  None of that is because of the horses you were sold being "intact".  Just because they CAN breed doesn't mean they SHOULD breed... just like some people.

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15 hours ago, Seriphina said:

Those horses didn't magically start breeding. You made the choice to try to breed them.  You bought what you needed and can care for them as you choose.  The bunch of 4s+ you have "lying around" are your own failures as a breeder which you haven't simply put down.  None of that is because of the horses you were sold being "intact".  Just because they CAN breed doesn't mean they SHOULD breed... just like some people.

Im emphasizing the amount the ease of making these horses after buying a breeding pair. I can easily clear a small area in the forest and hitch all the horses i dont use on carts and leave them in the wild. Then bring pregnant ones back in the deed to keep them safe, have the child, and put the mom back in a cart out the deed, let the child grow up, repeat. I'm just too lazy, and I think it would be a lot more fair if the person who sold me horses had them gelded.

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You do not need much skill and 4speeds are either free or almost...

In a week or 2.. you'll have 5 speed(s).. is it really worth damaging the 5=speeds than?

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9 hours ago, Finnn said:

You do not need much skill and 4speeds are either free or almost...

In a week or 2.. you'll have 5 speed(s).. is it really worth damaging the 5=speeds than?

Also keep in mind there arent just horses. Im pretty sure hell horses and unicorns at 4 speeds wouldn't be either free or almost. Im pretty sure unicorns and hell horses would be sold more if gelded. If i owned unicorns i wouldn't sell 1, thinking that they may have the opposite gender to breed and infinite amount with.

 

And here was the suggestion earlier

 

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Eh what we have now is fine, I don't see any changes required to please the few elites.

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16 hours ago, Legios said:

Eh what we have now is fine, I don't see any changes required to please the few elites.

I'm not an elite and it would please me to have a gelded unicorn.

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14 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

I'm not an elite and it would please me to have a gelded unicorn.

You can just tell yourself it has no genitals.. and be happy.

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https://www.amazon.com/ThinkGeek-Canned-Unicorn-Meat-Ounce/dp/B0089KZPNU/ref=sr_1_1?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1496349066&sr=1-1&keywords=unicorn+meat

 

Since for some reason you like the idea of chopping up unicorns and other animals for funzies, here's unicorn meat you can have and play with at home without the devs subjecting our digital animals to these practices which offer no measurable in game benefit.

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16 hours ago, Yiraia said:

Also keep in mind there arent just horses. Im pretty sure hell horses and unicorns at 4 speeds wouldn't be either free or almost. Im pretty sure unicorns and hell horses would be sold more if gelded. If i owned unicorns i wouldn't sell 1, thinking that they may have the opposite gender to breed and infinite amount with.

 

And here was the suggestion earlier

 

For all I care.. I don't care.. if this is added or not.
If I need an animal and find somebody selling these.. I'll probably do business with somebody else, and always redirect others to the 2nd person selling regular horses.

 

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28 minutes ago, Legios said:

You can just tell yourself it has no genitals.. and be happy.

But if they have genitals, it would be different financially

 

17 minutes ago, Finnn said:

For all I care.. I don't care.. if this is added or not.
If I need an animal and find somebody selling these.. I'll probably do business with somebody else, and always redirect others to the 2nd person selling regular horses.

 

That right there is a lot different than the -1 you said first, like everybody else is saying. There are mechanics in the game that people just ignore all the time, but -1 should mean "I don't want this here." Most -1 im seeing is "I dont think anybody would want this, because i don't care about this" rather than a "This is bad because of this"

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Gelding can have other benefits akin to RL, horse less aggressive for example.

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1 hour ago, Klaa said:

Gelding can have other benefits akin to RL, horse less aggressive for example.

 

Now THAT is a good idea, completely different from the OP.

If there was a benefit to offset the penalty of gelding, something palpable and comparable, like, say... an extra trait, possibly a speed one, that only gelded horses get.

 

But crippling horses for the sole pourpose of catering to a greedy merchant, thats still -1 for me

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