Davih

Gardening Nerf?

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1 hour ago, Tich said:

It is possible that i may be able to add an extra  hops harvest a while after the next one.

 

I have a question Tich that pertains to the almanac, thanks for the extra hops harvest offer too.

 

Why is the almanac so heavy, there is no way I want to lug this around so I jammed it into the bottom of the trunk of my ride, also there is no room in this thing for spare pages of info I have been collecting for my friends, can only make a few folders inside this and each folder can only hold 5 of the 0.01kg pages.

 

I think making this a container kinda was a mistake, but its a container so what the heck, lets make it hold more than 25 pages! (in the meanwhile I have been dumping all my extra pages into a satchel which easily holds 4-5x as many pages as the almanac can)

 

 

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13 hours ago, Finnn said:

Guys just wanted tons of 'free' beer with no maintenance.. no wonder sh** hits the fan when some work have to be done:unsure::unsure:

Do you even know how beer is made? x_x

I would had enough hops to turn the whole sea around me into beer even if trellies were to be working in this way from the first day of cooking.

I don't think you are even close to getting the point.

Gardening was a bad skill.

It has been worsened even more by this update.

Both with and wtihout these modifications, we would had an insane amount of hops beyond any possible future usage.

I can also make more trellis, this changes almost nothing by the point of view of balance, even less when talking about hops. Grapes are potentially overnumbered anyway just because there are endless zones full of grape bushes that people could have harvested for years, if they didn't to that so far, i doubt this will change anything.

They just worsened a skill making it more annoying to handle and harvest trellis (we basically need more, ofc we won't prune them periodically. Unless they happen to be overaged just before harvesting)

So... no, just no..

this is 100% not what happened.

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11 minutes ago, Davih said:

Do you even know how beer is made? x_x

I would had enough hops to turn the whole sea around me into beer even if trellies were to be working in this way from the first day of cooking.

I don't think you are even close to getting the point.

Gardening was a bad skill.

It has been worsened even more by this update.

Both with and wtihout these modifications, we would had an insane amount of hops beyond any possible future usage.

I can also make more trellis, this changes almost nothing by the point of view of balance, even less when talking about hops. Grapes are potentially overnumbered anyway just because there are endless zones full of grape bushes that people could have harvested for years, if they didn't to that so far, i doubt this will change anything.

They just worsened a skill making it more annoying to handle and harvest trellis (we basically need more, ofc we won't prune them periodically. Unless they happen to be overaged just before harvesting)

So... no, just no..

this is 100% not what happened.

Gardening might have been bad indeed.. but still i think that making gardening become more superior at doing forestry stuff.. that is also not the answer.

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3 minutes ago, rixk said:

Gardening might have been bad indeed.. but still i think that making gardening become more superior at doing forestry stuff.. that is also not the answer.

Well, then it's either a pointless skill or they should come up with something new, and different, which i would enjoy for sure.

Cause making it equal to forestry it's also not the answer, lol

Edited by Davih

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26 minutes ago, Davih said:

Well, then it's either a pointless skill or they should come up with something new, and different, which i would enjoy for sure.

Cause making it equal to forestry it's also not the answer, lol

 

Of course.. why even duplicate one skill.. obviously to make gardening more lucrative, is to give some unique features.

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Suggestions for new gardening features are always welcome!

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47 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Suggestions for new gardening features are always welcome!

 

Trellis that you can grow the flowers u pick in

 

 More trellace types that arch over the whole tile

 

jIiQB8L.jpg

 

let flower boxes be harvested for flowers.

 

allow us to breed flowers to make new cross breed flowers.

 

An extra Hops stage wouldnt hurt

 

the real issue is that they got this cool almanac and now all the trellis are young. You cant wild growth trellis. just grow all trellis a few stages at least the ones already planted. new ones start at young.

 

 

 

The gardening skill doesnt seem that important since it has so little content. what really needs to be added is craftable face slot items, diff armor styles. I know several people that dont wanna play cause they saw all this new armor for Rolfs "challenge". All those new models that had to be made only to be on a few items instead of making new craftable armor. craftable shoulder pads (even if it is a basic variant Goblin skull etc, basic plate pad with no added abilities).

 

The fact that uniques are all hunted privately instead of in a server wide event format like the rifts.

 

Anyways those are some ideas. sorry for slight derail

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Killroth
added idea

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Just a suggestion-maybe make it so that even at young and withered stages there is a yield of 1-makes it so that even large farms get at least something from the trellis

 

Also make pruning maybe a bit easier-online with tend perhaps-and no failures

 

Just suggestions:)

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22 hours ago, Kelody said:

It takes me a while to imp a trellis to 55, but seeing as that's above my skill I expect it. I have no idea how you spend 3 hours imping pottery. It doesn't take me that long to make a 90ql smelting pot.

 

I expect it, as it's above my pottery skill, but I also have the patience of a glacier and push, push, push way farther than I probably should. My last batch I got to 65+ QL on x7 pottery items, I was 56 pottery skill when I started, I hit 60+ pottery skill before I was done. You're talking about doing a single item, probably with stam regen in between. I'm talking about doing x7 at once, with 6 action queue (52+ Mind Logic), with just under 37 body stamina and starting off with full CCFP also (Which gives body stam boost at the beginning and slowly takes away the boost as your bars drop) and going until my stam runs out, then letting it regen when it drops to 0, and restarting the process numerous times. It takes hours (And yes, gives good skilling too.). So effectively, I'm pushing against game barriers/limits.

 

In regards to the thread :


Which brings me to a point I was going to make...after we discussed this in in-game chat the other day, I had a idea about something. Since the devs appear to believe people are 'abusing' the 'having too many' trellises thing...why not institute a hard cap on deeds, similar to the ratio for animals? Make it so we're only able to have a set limit of trellises on deed, and adjust it as needed. If the problem is having these massive trellis farms...only allow so many on a deed. Then if people do the off-deed thing, the trellises are taking decay/going to get wiped out...and therefore need imping/maintaining, or if they are on-deed they are forced to have a dev set limit so they aren't making some crazy orchard with lines and lines and lines of trellises that never decay. This would stop the 'abuse' they think is going on. Since apparently the x4 per tile cap isn't 'enough' of a limit, maybe they need another hard game cap somewhere. Instead of putting them on the aging system, which has it's own problems...

 

6 hours ago, Wonka said:

What's more important out of this debate is this: if you're not having fun, then stop playing.  If you feel like the dev team don't care about you or your opinions, vote with your feet (and/or wallet), and go do something else.  Endless posts about how the game is aggravating, a let down, "don't know why I still play", etc don't help you, they are unlikely to get you what you want, and they aren't fun for anyone else to read either.  If you don't enjoy being here or playing Wurm, then just don't!

Maybe we do enjoy the game enough to want to better it, make it more fun for others, and therefore have an opinion on ways to improve things and are expressing discontent due to mechanics that are being added that ruin what otherwise was a fun time? Or should everyone just be silenced and the devs never receive any feedback and just go on doing things people may not find fun....until enough people leave because of it that maybe the game you enjoy disappears because of lack of funding?

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...Implying big trellies farms were ever a problem for anything/anyone?

Lol, to be honest i'm struggling a lot at following this thread logic anymore.

- First we get called "abusers" just because we played the game the way it was supposed to be played making a lot of what was a perfectly "working as intended" item
- Then they say it was something that needed balancing because,,, it was an unintended scenario to see such huge trellis farms (now they just need to be double sized and only difference would be getting a little more annoyed by having to skip some trellis)
- Someone says gardening is unbalanced vs farming and starts comparing the yield of crops vs the yield of trellis (i was the first one to bring in farming into the discussion, and the only reason why i did it was in an example like "if making hundreds of trellis is abusing, then also seeding 1k tiles of crops is")
- Devs take that obsevation seriously (comparison of crops vs trellis) calling it a "fair point"

So, are we getting them nerfed to get them buffed just later more than how they were nerfed?
Wtf? :D
With the final results of having even more yield but in a more annoying way?
Hm... honestly, couldn't we just agree that this was kind of a bad decision in general?

Placing a cap for deed is just something that challenges the very basics of this game. Nothing was ever limited in that kind of way, are really trellis the main issue now? So much so that we should do something like that?

Let's just accept the unspeakable truth that trellis were nerfed just to have something more that could be added to the almanac, lol.

It's sad but i have to agree with Niki on something, it doesn't seem like people making decision are really that much "into the game" to understand it's hidden mechanics, that when it comes to something like this, are kinda driven by ingame-market too.

Edited by Davih

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On 5/24/2017 at 10:19 AM, Keenan said:

 "Any player who takes a flawed mechanic to extremes is being abusive. Unlike other games, we don't normally punish people for doing this. We simply fix the flaw."

 

Okay, Rolf Jr...

Your flawed mechanic of disbursing ash into the game needs to be worked on. Go fix it. I don't like being referred to/coined as/deemed an "abuser" because the team hasn't bothered to "simply fix the flaw" in the past decade+ , and i'm forced to create thousands of unwanted and unneeded campfires/coal piles. By the way, you may want to start looking into the "I mined straight ahead but got a very uneven mine floor" mechanic that's largely unwanted by the playerbase and has been bitched about for literal years now. :rolleyes:



(I don't even care about this trellis nonsense. Wouldn't even have posted had this warped and arrogant dev viewpoint not been included in this thread.)


 

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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Suggestions for new gardening features are always welcome!

Woad planters, functional flower pots, planter boxes like flower boxes but better, mushroom boxes (grow in caves).

 

I mean even topiary trees even high skill requirement 70+ make that aesthetic hedge grove.

66128460b6928e6bdf4b88c6f65378dd.jpg

Do you guys even use the suggestion forums? Tons of good information that is ignored quite often.

 

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I'm just going to leave this link here:

 

 

Also, can we please have the "remove shriveled trees/bushes" when casting wild growth removed?  It's quite annoying when you expect a 3x3 effect and then wipe out 25% of a shriveled grove because you get a 7x7.

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12 minutes ago, Niki said:

Woad planters

This is a good idea, Woad is too hard to obtain compared to green and red.

It could be good to have cocoa too, in some way.

Topiary trees (at high skill, with long timers) might not be gamechanging, but could be something nice

Mushrooms... well, that's not really gardening, but i guess it's the closest skill, so i'd like to see those too

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3 minutes ago, Davih said:

This is a good idea, Woad is too hard to obtain compared to green and red.

It could be good to have cocoa too, in some way.

Topiary trees (at high skill, with long timers) might not be gamechanging, but could be something nice

Mushrooms... well, that's not really gardening, but i guess it's the closest skill, so i'd like to see those too

I doubt they are going to start adding skills to the game, it would be Fungiculture though.

 

Anyways I hope they didn't encourage us to derail this thread with suggestions so it can be stealth locked. Very distasteful, but I've seen it happen before.

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Well, it's hops season, I have 24 trellis, 23 are young and not harvestable... thank you for not listening to us and do something easy at the last update like bumping all of them to mature at least...

 

welp, just seen Tich post in the middle of them all.

On 26/05/2017 at 11:51 AM, Tich said:

It is possible that i may be able to add an extra  hops harvest a while after the next one.

 

Well, after the first part of the rant, I want to say thank you for being the only dev/official staff here with an answer close to the community wishes. And I can't wait to have that second harvest in-game... I'm not at the same point as Jake, but it still sucks to be able to do nothing out of your hardwork.

Edited by Odynn

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If I had a time machine I think I'd make trellises be purely decorative and make hops a normal bush. Let gardening be for decorative and potted things like herbs, harvestable flower beds, harvestable woad planters, maybe underground mushroom beds.

 

If trellises were just decorative, then they could always be in season and you could have all sorts. Rose, yellow flowers, purple flowers, grapes, let your imagination go wild!

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25 minutes ago, Darmalus said:

If I had a time machine I think I'd make trellises be purely decorative and make hops a normal bush. Let gardening be for decorative and potted things like herbs, harvestable flower beds, harvestable woad planters, maybe underground mushroom beds.

 

If trellises were just decorative, then they could always be in season and you could have all sorts. Rose, yellow flowers, purple flowers, grapes, let your imagination go wild!

Yep.. trellises should've never been harvestable tbh. That is one of the things, which was made on a whim.. Someone proposed, that "oh, it would be cool to make trellises also harvestable".. it was done, without really thinking. Short term popularity gain, long term disaster(as we see from this topic).

 

Anyway. I think Darmalus got good point here. Gardening has been about decorating. That should be its main focus and that should've been improved. We got flowerbeds, but there is no progression in gardenings decorating aspect tbh, there is a lot to do.

 

Of course potted plants also are a thing.. but.. that actually steps on toes of foraging/botanizing(whichever gives herbs).. So I think that also could use a bit changing too. Currently these two are just "those skills which give cash, but fill your inventory with junk". Maybe seeds to plant herbs to pots should come from foraging/botanizing, to make it support skill of gardening.. or something like that.

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18 or so out of possible 696 hops trellis on the current harvest

 

 

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What about adding Aloe Vera plants to the game? Make them gardening. They could be used the same way a Farmer's Salve works, but for ice damage and burns. Gardening skill, produces materials used in alchemy to make the salve. A new venue for the use of an otherwise neglected skill.

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1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

but for ice damage and burns

 

1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

otherwise neglected skill

 

Nope, still neglected.

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On 5/24/2017 at 7:08 AM, Retrograde said:

Those who use them as decorations and occasional harvests will see little to no change.

 

The change that upsets me is about rose trelisses, they used to look great, with red flowers all the time, perfect for their decorative purposes; now they have flowers only when they're harvestable, for a short time, and there comes the dilema: "to harvest or not to harvest".

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40 minutes ago, Evening said:

 

The change that upsets me is about rose trelisses, they used to look great, with red flowers all the time, perfect for their decorative purposes; now they have flowers only when they're harvestable, for a short time, and there comes the dilema: "to harvest or not to harvest".

So what we need is a decorational trellis and functional(harvesting) trellis, just like fountains have.

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2 hours ago, Evening said:

 

The change that upsets me is about rose trelisses, they used to look great, with red flowers all the time, perfect for their decorative purposes; now they have flowers only when they're harvestable, for a short time, and there comes the dilema: "to harvest or not to harvest".

 

Same with the grapes, they look amazing for the short time they have grapes growing away.

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So, going off of this thread, are we trying to say the only point to raising gardening is/was trellises? Because harvestable trellises are a fairly 'recent' addition.

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