Davih

Gardening Nerf?

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Yes four on a tile which can only be harvested once a wurm year, as opposed to a farm tile which you can harvest once every week.

 

I don't see how you can justify making trellises more of a pain but a farm tile is fine the way it is.

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@Keenan

 

I see you won your own poll, and just by coincidence started posting here more when the race was tight...

well played Sir, well played.

:lol:

Next poll, wookin' pa nub?

 

Sorry for the minor hijack folks, now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

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3 hours ago, Keenan said:

 

This image alone is more than enough for me to consider this entire thing done.

 

This is how you don't enact the changes you desire. You don't throw out the reasoning and make threats. You consider the reasoning and offer a solution that may be work better and bridge whatever gap there is.

 

I've seen all sorts of comparisons, but none are valid. None.

 

Farm tiles die off when not harvested on time and must be planted again. You can also only plant one crop per tile. They should also be tended, but I do understand that this is technically optional.

Coal piles are a tad harder to make and go away when they're done.

 

A trellis doesn't go away. It can be stacked four per tile. And now precisely how many more actions must be taken after they age up?

 

Discussions on having Wild Growth affect them is something we've already started.

 

So given the facts:

These will keep their age.

Wild Growth may be altered to work with them.

It is intended to make large trellis farms harder to manage.

 

What suggestions do you have? That's all I'll be paying attention to from here on out.

 

The fact that I am willing to pay deed upkeep for a vineyard should be reason enough to not nerf the hell out of something. I thought as a business model you would want to encourage customers to spend more on the game.

 

The funny thing is, there is absolutely no point in having that many hops as the recipe for making beer requires a single hops where wine making requires many grapes, which I did not know at the time. So you all pretty much failed on that part why add a feature with little to no use, its the same as the bee's which was a amazing feature when it was added, but as it turns out there is no bulk use for honey or bee's wax that would require constant harvesting of the beehives.

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You know what the problem with wurm is right?

 

The game does not have a business manager, its all part timer's trying to run a full time business.

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So, remaking the points:

 

  • Trellises need to be crafted and often improved, which means time and resources.
  • Crop tiles don't need to be crafted, all it is needed is a seed.
  • Trellises can be harvested one time per wurmian year, which means one time every 42 days.
  • Crops can be harvested every 5 days (if I well remember once they are sow they need 5 real days to become ripe).
  • You can plant 4 trellises per tile, but you can harvest them just one time in 42 real days (1 wurmian year), and if you miss it (a trip, a disease, an important school test and so on) you have to wait others 42 days*.
  • You can sow 1 crop per tile, but you can harvest and sow again it about 8 times in 42 real days (1 wurmian year).


I can deed a 50x50 spot and fill it with trellises or I can create a very big field. If we talk with numbers, how many grapes can I get from a 50x50 deed full of grapes trellises with a 50 gardening skill and 50 quality trellises and how many pumpkins can I get from a 50x50 deed with only crop tiles with a 50 farming skill?
@Keenan could you count them for one wurmian year, so 1 harvesting for trellises and 8 harvesting for crops, please? I would like to quantify the difference.
 

 

*I know that they can be harvestable for a couple of days, but a commitment can require more than a day.

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Idk I was looking forward to making a trellis farm after those healthy changes, but not anymore. So much for usefulness.

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I was going to grind my Gardening and decor my farm with also useful trellises. But when i read about changes, I think I'm gonna change my mind. It's not likie I don't like hard and long way of getting everything in Wurm. These changes are not making gardening and trellises more difficult or something. Just made em useless and not worth the efforts.

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Does pruning a trellis give gardening skill gains? If so, this is a great change. :)

 

I don't see how having to spend a couple days out of 42 to maintaining a trellis before harvest season as a big deal. So you can't ignore something then profit from it repeatedly. This is brand new, nobody knows how it'll work long term, talk about over reaction. 5 pages in 3 days.

 

17 hours ago, Corsan said:

Have you built a trellis recently? It takes over an hour and a half to imp about 5 up to just under 60 QL. It's not even comparable to pottery...which can take upwards of 3 hours to imp something from 1 to 65+QL (Which is bugged as heck). Someone building that massive of a trellis plot would spend hours imping all of those up. (That's a lot of work!)

 

It takes me a while to imp a trellis to 55, but seeing as that's above my skill I expect it. I have no idea how you spend 3 hours imping pottery. It doesn't take me that long to make a 90ql smelting pot.

Edited by Kelody

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Well. A lot was said here. I do not use forum very often, yet from perspective of few years in the game I have very few things to say:

I was grinding my gardening skills for months, making a lots of trelisses and succesfully harvesting hundreds of vine/hoops and some other stuff. Today I harvested 9 hoops while expecting well above 200.

After so many dissapoitments in this game I seriously cosidering selling all my wurm assets/accounts and deeds.

I honestly loosing interest in constantly deteriorating "Wurm experience".

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I do admit, probably would have been better if existing trellis didn't start as young mid season.

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20 minutes ago, Fenimore said:

I harvested 9 hoops while expecting well above 200.

 

I think you doing better than I will with my 700 hops trellis, as mine all show 'young'.

 

I waited 42 days for this!

Edited by JakeRivers

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57 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

I think you doing better than I will with my 700 hops trellis, as mine all show 'young'.

 

I waited 42 days for this!

Somebody get the man some hops ffs.  What's he supposed to drink for the next 42 days if he can't harvest a full yield on 700 Trellises!

 

Alternatively, you could bring him your beer, whiskey, heck, corn ethanol might do.

Delirium Tremmens is rough, have a heart people.

 

ok, ok, I was only kidding, take it easy.

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Good idea, Reylaark.  Let's all make fun of wasted time and effort.  But let's not forget to ridicule the frustration that goes along with it.  I mean, what are a couple thousand hops from tiles that could be yielding 12-15 thousand cucumbers?

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If you're not going to change minds Devs how about a compromise, increase the amount you get based on QL and not skill 10ql=1 20ql=2 up to 90ql=9.

 

 

I still think this whole thing isn't reasonable though if you ask me. If this was unintentional why wasn't it fixed day one of the cooking update patch? I lost count honestly, but this is becoming a trend ever since the fountain pan thread. Have a nice feature? Nerf it! Even if it's been out for months or years. Soon threads like this are made, people are annoyed by it. You acknowledge it publicly as unintentional or exploit out of the clear blue like it just came out last week. No compromise is considered. Wasn't even add it to the patch notes.

 

Do you not play your game? You seriously seem to take us for fools when you say it was unintentional or a exploit every time something like this happens, everything is a exploit these days, if I reported water you would probably remove it because it's unlimited.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Morhedron said:

Good idea, Reylaark.  Let's all make fun of wasted time and effort.  But let's not forget to ridicule the frustration that goes along with it.  I mean, what are a couple thousand hops from tiles that could be yielding 12-15 thousand cucumbers?

 

I sense a tinge of sarcasm in your lack of levity.

 

Perhaps consider taking a step back for a moment.  Look at the greater picture, and consider if any of this has any real bearing on your real life.  If not, is it really worth the real aggravation and rage not only to yourself, but to those you're communicating with.

 

12 minutes ago, Niki said:

You seriously seem to take us for fools when you say it was unintentional or a exploit every time something like this happens, everything is a exploit these days, if I reported water you would probably remove it because it's unlimited.

 

Howdy Niki,

I was watching a Microsoft video yesterday about DevOps.  It reminded me that no matter how much testing, how much forecasting, how much polling... production brings out facets of any software that may not have been intended.  Sometimes you put a "Wish List" next to the "Cart" button and find that your company suddenly makes more money because all of a sudden, people are looking harder and deeper into the site looking to fill their wish list and find little impulse buys they want along the way.  A good unintended, and unimagined consequence from how users use your software when you roll it out.

 

The development process doesn't halt at release, clearly in the case of bugs, but also as metrics are followed to see the intended and unintended effects of a change.

 

Jake, as unfortunate as his circumstances may be, might have answered his own questions very early on here.  He stated, probably facetiously, that with this change he may as well toss his 1000 trellises into a lava pit and save the lag.  I can't possibly imagine making 1000 trellises, but Jake is evidently a beast.  For the sake of science, someone should study him playing Wurm.  We could be walking on Europa, or some other moon, by now.

 

There will always be metrics followed, even in production, after testing.  Production will sometimes yield behaviors or effects that indeed were not intended, or turned out to have a greater deleterious effect than anticipated.

 

The video in question, if anyone is curious : https://mva.microsoft.com/en-US/training-courses/top-10-devops-questions-answered-17637?l=bsDibGIuD_7006218965

Try not to make eye contact with the speaker, juuust a wee bit too enthusiastic at times, imho.

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9 minutes ago, Reylaark said:

Perhaps consider taking a step back for a moment.  Look at the greater picture, and consider if any of this has any real bearing on your real life.  If not, is it really worth the real aggravation and rage not only to yourself, but to those you're communicating with.

I know why I started playing Wurm: for relaxation.  In the 5, going on 6 years I've been playing the aggravation has had it's ebbs and flows.  At one time I had 9 deeds on Deli.... aggravation flowed and then I had one, now none.   Aggravation ebbed.... I now have 3 (was 7) deeds on Xan and one on Indy....  but again aggravation is flowing.....   perhaps you are right and I should just cut my losses.

Edited by Morhedron
Logic

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24 minutes ago, Morhedron said:

I know why I started playing Wurm: for relaxation.  In the 5, going on 6 years I've been playing the aggravation has had it's ebbs and flows.  At one time I had 9 deeds on Deli.... aggravation flowed and then I had one, now none.   Aggravation ebbed.... I now have 3 (was 7) deeds on Xan and one on Indy....  but again aggravation is flowing.....   perhaps you are right and I should just cut my losses.

Well, I'm certainly not suggesting you need to stop playing, that'd be a bummer.

 

I think I've been there too though.  Some games are just too aggravating for me, blood pressure goes through the roof, it's just a mess :lol:  Those are the games I have to watch out I don't get too drawn in when I eventually give them another shot.

I think one reason Wurm works for me is 1). I've become accustomed to taking breaks, losing everything, and starting over with what I have on me when I get back a few months later.  2). Any moment now, I'll remember I could just put a chunk of upkeep in my deed, not lose everything, and not have to start over when I get back.  Granted starting over is actually really fun.

 

I always do come back though, it's pretty much a running joke in my family now.  "That's how they get ya!" when we inevitably come back and find ourselves hooked all over again.

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Never question the dedication, resolve, and fanaticism of the old MR guys. You only have to look at Nadroj and his deed to understand what they are capable of!

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Guys just wanted tons of 'free' beer with no maintenance.. no wonder sh** hits the fan when some work have to be done:unsure::unsure:

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1 hour ago, Finnn said:

Guys just wanted tons of 'free' beer with no maintenance.. no wonder sh** hits the fan when some work have to be done:unsure::unsure:

People complaining about free beer...

 

What is wrong with you! :blink:

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I admit I suffer from long term planning ocd, and this change fooked up my plans completely, I worked my arse off to get my gardening skill up to a point where I could harvest a decent quality of hops to make the beers I want to make. 

 

This was the harvest I had planed for to get the hops and crank out my beers, but now its all down the tubes cause the change came just before the hops harvest and now to get my hops I wanted I have to wait another 6 weeks. 

 

This is something I have been building up to since the cooking update came out, getting the gardening and beverages skills up to pull this off.

 

It is a serious let down, and is why I am so cranky about it, if the change happened next week I would of been like meh, okay whatever. Now I am looking at a harvest that involves 700 hops trellis sitting mostly at the young stage with zero harvest and a handful at mature which will yield a grand total of 1 hops.

 

I am sorry for ragging on the dev's for bringing this change about, surely you could of timed it a bit better than slamming us just before the seasons started but it is what it is, in the long run it will be fine. There is no need to maintain a trellis plantation as it will be no different than a massive tree farm, once things smooth out come harvest time you will have the usual amount of trees at all the various stages and no big deal as you have so many to harvest you are going to get what you want out of it. 

 

For the role players it will make no difference as you will care for your handful of trellis's just like your tree's, pruning them when needed so they are always at there prime. =p

 

 

 

 

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I look forward to sampling your beer. That Nadroj Flavored Water I get from Marganon's Rest isn't cutting it.

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12 hours ago, Kelody said:

I do admit, probably would have been better if existing trellis didn't start as young mid season.

 

I think this issue keeps getting glossed over and I don't see it being addressed by Retrograde or Keenan.

 

If they want to make the argument that this was a needful change....well I don't really have a dog in that hunt, but the issue of timing and communication is always crucial.

 

42 may not be that long amount of time in the scheme of things, but a lot of things can happen in that time. Losing an entire season because of a completely avoidable decision handed down from on high is a pretty big deal.

 

I have somewhere between 40-50 trellis I made over time as people in my alliance gave them to me, mostly because I generally enjoy the Nature based skills. If you want to say that amount is abusing something...then you should have communicated earlier that it was an issue.

 

Ultimately, my main reason of concern is the other recent addition, the Almanac. I wanted to make a gift of a complete almanac to the members of my alliance and had been collecting enough reports to do so, even to the point of hiring priests to wild grown enough raspberry and blueberry bushes. Now I'm going to be short of Hops reports and have to either give the whole thing up or give out incomplete gifts.

 

Thanks?

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Ok, I can see that the change would have been better if bought in just after the season rather than right before it, but aside from that, this doesn't seem that big of an issue.  I have a few trellises around my deed, that I harvest when I remember, and although I'll probably get a few less grapes/hopes/roses than before, I won't see any real change.  Personally, the change sounds reasonable to me, but I haven't put a huge amount of effort in here - YMMV.

 

What's more important out of this debate is this: if you're not having fun, then stop playing.  If you feel like the dev team don't care about you or your opinions, vote with your feet (and/or wallet), and go do something else.  Endless posts about how the game is aggravating, a let down, "don't know why I still play", etc don't help you, they are unlikely to get you what you want, and they aren't fun for anyone else to read either.  If you don't enjoy being here or playing Wurm, then just don't!

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It is possible that i may be able to add an extra  hops harvest a while after the next one.

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