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I feel that many people play this game for the novelty of how WURM works and the fact that you have pretty much full freedom to do what you want when you want with specific limitations. However, it has been my experience, regarding WURM, that there is an issue with player community. The players themselves do what they can to promote community and the devs have done a wonderful job improving this area yet to me it seems that it still lacks the "Let's be togetherness". I believe this idea that I have about the ability to "sell" property to players if they wish to be a citizen of a settlement can help with this shortcoming. Selling property with preset permissions that come with being an "auto citizen" lets individuals get to know others by proxy of purchased property. Essentially the community stems from being neighbors.

 

One of the walls I have found as a deed owner is the fact that I have to "get to know" anyone and almost everyone that I add as a citizen. I would have to spend a considerable amount of time with an individual, as a deed owner or an individual that is capable of inviting strangers to a deed, in order to fully know if they are trustworthy enough to not seriously grief/damage everything on my deed before giving them the permissions that they want as part of a deed. All the while the individual wanting the benefits of my deed, and the community that comes with it, will have to wait that considerable amount of time to do pretty much anything on deed while they craft and build things off deed (wasting their time in my opinion). This may not seem like a problem with settlements that have a population less than 5 however when it gets to the point that the settlement has 10 - 20 or more then it gets annoying.

 

As mentioned before as a settlement mayor it is hard to justify the time spent getting to know all the individuals that want to enter my deed. It is time better spent enjoying all the facets of this game that I have yet to do. This is only my opinion but the micromanagement style to deed owning is arduous. This issue is reduced a little with the ability to sell property that I allocate on my deed. As the mayor (or anyone authorized to do mayor things) I can then set certain permissions that automatically take effect as soon as they buy the property (and become a citizen of the settlement) just like it is set up now. The benefit of this situation is the individual that purchased the property can do what they wish, how they wish within the confines of the purchased property and its set permissions. The ability to sell property on a deed alleviates the issue of "trustworthiness" of the individual and enables them to gain the settlement benefits they so desire all the while putting a bit of currency in the coffers of the deed (the purchaser will still have to adhere to and be aware of any taxes that come with being a citizen).

 

It is no secret that WURM also lacks anything that can be considered an economy. It has been mentioned by the players and the devs uniformly that the trading system between players is... clunky at best. The idea of selling property will benefit to the inevitable solution by creating a bit of "cash-flow" through the settlement. The Mayor (or authorized citizens) plant a property marker, sets the price and they are done. As soon as another player "purchases" that property marker funds are debited from the players account and the deed coffer is credited. Now this is in no way to be a huge effect on the problem but does introduce motivation to both purchase and use in-game currency.

 

So this is all good but how would a system like this be set up? Good question and I have thought about this quite a bit:

 

1) Mayor (or authorized citizen) sets up permissions for a "New citizen" just like they do now. This will be what they are allowed to do anywhere on the deed (Pick-up items, not pick-up items, Lead, not lead, dig, not dig, etc.)

 

2) Set up a "property profile" for different types of property (what the purchaser is allowed to do within the confines of this type of property) Similar to the "New citizen" permissions however will include subjects such as maximum slope allowed or maximum building height for example.

 

3) Purchase a property stake from a trader (or make one. this would be entirely up to codeclub)

 

4) Place the property stake. Now this seems simple however I have thought about just letting the "marker" be in the center like the deed marker but considering you are dealing with a much smaller area (I'm thinking minimum 5x5 tiles with a one tile [or more] perimeter) Having a marker in the center where you cannot build anything would be annoying. So the solution would be to place the marker and have a UI that would allow a 0 to be placed in the fields asking how far north/east/west/south you would like the property to be with a minimum of two fields filled in and a mandatory perimeter (minimum one tile).

 

5) Apply a "property profile" to the marker and “citizen type” they would become if purchased.

 

6) Set Price

 

7) Player purchases property

 

That's it. As soon as the purchaser buys the property they are now a citizen of the settlement (which is set with the "property profile") and can freely build within the property limits (also set in the "property profile"). From here on it is up to the new citizen to get to know others do good things for the settlement and gain more permissions or higher citizen ranking along the way. I admit there are a few more questions that need to be answered that are more difficult to deal with and ultimately, if this idea takes off, would have to be debated. However this is the gist of the subject.

Some questions that I had a hard time confronting:

 

1) If an individual purchases property then quits playing/doesn't follow the rules/irritates the other citizens; do I as the mayor have the right to revoke their citizenship and take their property?

A: If the property was rented you could as deed owner refuse to continue contract after expiration.

 

2) If, as a mayor, I have the right to take their property how does codeclub prevent mayors from stealing your game currency by booting the citizen out as soon as the transaction is complete?

A: The mayor would be bound to a "rental contract", as it were, and be unable to cancel the contract until the agreed upon time is met. The deed owner would also be unable to disband the deed until such time that all rental contracts are expired. This would alleviate this issue.

 

3) Would a purchaser have the ability to purchase more property and if so how would I prevent them from “land-grabbing”?

A: All properties are by contract and a default of one contract per toon. It would be between the deed owner and the renter to allow for a bigger plot.

 

4) Would a purchaser have the right to develop the property then sell to another? If so does the second purchaser become a citizen? and to this if so then what level of citizen?

A: No, however one could allow the rental contract to expire therefore allowing another individual to rent the space.

 

5) Can purchasers "sub-lease"/share the property?

A: No

 

6) After purchasing; would the purchaser be able to add others to the property and set permissions for them?

A: No

 

EDIT: It has bee pointed out by Vanyel that renting spaces would be more viable and I agree.

EDIT 2: If you like this idea you may like this idea as well

Edited by Enigma_Prime
Apparently this look potato on mobile (Format)

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Even disregarding the 'selling' aspect, the ability to mark certain tiles on a deed and alter permissions for them separately from the rest of the deed would be great.

Like allowing villagers to dig on a clay tile but not on the rest of the deed etc.

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I feel this is well thought out and well presented, However, I feel the questions left open would prove too great to really implement effectively. In an ideal situation where everyone got along well, this would be a great option. With some of the more nefarious people in the game, though, the problems may prove worse than the benefits.

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2 minutes ago, koroth said:

I feel this is well thought out and well presented, However, I feel the questions left open would prove too great to really implement effectively. In an ideal situation where everyone got along well, this would be a great option. With some of the more nefarious people in the game, though, the problems may prove worse than the benefits.

Thank-you

 

This is why I left those questions open. I was unsure how those questions would be resolved and my SO suggested I post it here to maybe find answers and to simply post the idea of course.

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3 minutes ago, koroth said:

I feel this is well thought out and well presented, However, I feel the questions left open would prove too great to really implement effectively. In an ideal situation where everyone got along well, this would be a great option. With some of the more nefarious people in the game, though, the problems may prove worse than the benefits.

The ability to just change certain permissions on select tiles would be very useful. However I was trying to also tackle the "Player Community" aspect as well. Thank-you for your feedback!

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20 minutes ago, Artisan said:

Like allowing villagers to dig on a clay tile but not on the rest of the deed etc.

There is a permission for digging resources.

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27 minutes ago, zigozag said:

There is a permission for digging resources.

 

Oh, well I guess there have been some updates I missed along the way :D

 

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What incentive would one have to spend silvers to buy land on your deed when they can use those silvers to buy their own deed?

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2 hours ago, McGarnicle said:

What incentive would one have to spend silvers to buy land on your deed when they can use those silvers to buy their own deed?

Most likely it would be considerably cheaper to buy property. For example: My deed is 32x32 (not huge but humble) This is 1024 tiles and it costs me approx 3 silvers 52 coppers which comes to about 35200 iron total. this is roughly .34 copper per tile. for a 5x5 space I'd charge about 8.5 copper. Now I know this could be considered anecdotal and the price that other deed owners would charge would vary a bit but if I was a newbie or an individual that does not want to bother with a deed then this would be enticing. Considering I would reap all the benefets of the deed without all the management. Besides the focal of this idea is to create more community and if joining a settlement was as easy as "hey buy this property and be a member of this deed so we can help you in a more effective way" would go a long way in my opinion to promote community. Not to mention this is a one time purchase rather than a monthly cost. I did some more maths and for an 11x11 deed (the smallest allowed) the monthly cost without a spirit would be 24c. with a guard add 100c/month.

 

This maths is assuming, iirc, that 100 iron is 1 copper and 100 copper is 1 silvers etc (please correct me if I am wrong).

 

Edited by Enigma_Prime
Adding three sentences, getting rid of the edit:"" for obvious reasons.

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I like this idea... 

 

However, I think Rent as opposed to purchase would be a better option - this would eliminate most, if not all, the above open issues/questions:

 

Q1 - if a player quits/takes a break/forgets to log in for a set time (see Q2 below) etc, anything on him/her is safe, but items/buildings left in the world decay/become fair game (exactly as it stands now with deeds - buidlings on previous plots could revert to Deed Owner as building owner in case the tenant comes back within a few days of the plot running out, and wants to continue). Naturally, pickup permissions of surrounding deed would apply.

In the case of untrustworthy/irritating etc players Q2 will help, and combine it with a blacklist - "Do not rent to: <list of names>" which could be kinda like the KoS system currently available.

 

Q2 - minimum (or even maximum) months of rental say 1-3min and 6-12max months eliminates this problem. If renter chooses to move on before this time, funds are not refundable. An absolute minimum of 1 RL calendar month should be hard-coded as minimum rental term and then be expandable by deed owner as required.

If someone wears out their welcome, adding their name to the blacklist (mentioned above) would not allow them to renew or obtain another plot within that deed. Bearing in mind that Deed permissions will apply for outside the plot, even a proven untrustworthy individual can be tolerated/ignored/put on block for a month.

 

Q3 - current rules would apply - one deed per toon, or one rented plot per toon. Another option (in the case of alts) could be for Deed owners (Landlords) to only place plots available when they are required and by placing multiple plots the landlord takes the risk that alts could "grab them all". Again, minimum/maximum contract terms would limit this.

 

Q4 -NO. simple.

 

Q5 - only with their own alts - which MUST be created with the SAME email used to create the original toon that first rented the plot -  otherwise no (a friend can always ask the Landlord for another plot if there is room available)

 

Q6 - see Q5

 

As for pricing, Deed Owner/Landlords should be able to set whatever price they think is fair... If you can get someone to pay 1g+ per month for a 3x3 plot on an 11x11 deed, so be it. If not, your plot will sit empty forever... But we need the option there to set our own pricing... (Y'know, sandbox and all that ;p )

 

Further, all income from plots should go directly to deed upkeep - not to the owner/landlord as coins.

 

Also, when a deed owner creates a plot, there should be an option to allow renewal of the initial contract or not. This way, Newbie Academies can be created where new players can rent a plot for say 2 or 3 months before moving out into the big wide world (or being offered a place as a permanent citizen in the deed), or regular deeds where the tenant can renew his contract and stay as long as s/he likes (and is not blacklisted).

 

 

If we can combine all this with Malena's idea of setting permissions by TILE:

 

then we would have the ULTIMATE deed system ever!

Edited by Vanyel
added bits

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I play on Wurm Unlimited, but I rent 'shoppes' to other players in my small deed market area. I send them a papyrus letter with their rent, bldg name, and month, and send it as C.O.D. for their rent costs.

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Real Estate fraud in Wurm! Deed owner sells off parcels to poor Wurmanite paupers and homeless. When all parcels are sold disbands deed, sells off silver to other players converting it to RL currencies, starts another character and on to next land fraud scheme.

 

Even if this does not happen every time it only costs 1 silver per month upkeep for a 21x23 tile deed. Cheap insurance in comparison with many more perks and total control of this area.

 

There are a multitude of deeds actively seeking *anyone* to join them at no cost in coins/silver with many living options available. Sure, if the person is undesirable they will be kicked out but this may be preferable to deed plot "owners" who can't be kicked out, as living within this deed might be a more unpleasant experience that living in someone else's deed with more amenable players.

 

Bad idea, complicated additional coding, GM oversight necessary to arbitrate "owner" disputes and unnecessary since better options already exist.

 

=Ayes=

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12 hours ago, Ayes said:

Real Estate fraud in Wurm! Deed owner sells off parcels to poor Wurmanite paupers and homeless. When all parcels are sold disbands deed, sells off silver to other players converting it to RL currencies, starts another character and on to next land fraud scheme.

 

Even if this does not happen every time it only costs 1 silver per month upkeep for a 21x23 tile deed. Cheap insurance in comparison with many more perks and total control of this area.

 

There are a multitude of deeds actively seeking *anyone* to join them at no cost in coins/silver with many living options available. Sure, if the person is undesirable they will be kicked out but this may be preferable to deed plot "owners" who can't be kicked out, as living within this deed might be a more unpleasant experience that living in someone else's deed with more amenable players.

 

Bad idea, complicated additional coding, GM oversight necessary to arbitrate "owner" disputes and unnecessary since better options already exist.

 

=Ayes=

 

As I do see your point on this, albeit a bit intense,  I do believe you are missing the point of the idea. As it is now all deed owners (or friends with permissions of deed control) have to actively seek out people to join their deed. This not only takes time and effort to do distracting from the game, but also it also has unfavorable side effects. The owner takes the time to find someone to join their deed, good, however a lot of them want to do their own thing on the deed. Now they have to find someone in the community that has permission to change permissions (not always hard to do but still distracts from the game, no to mention they are not always available). Another point I can make is the fact that I do not, as a deed owner, want to give a stranger that is unfamiliar with projects I'm working, free rain of my deed. Many of these strangers will not fully understand what they are doing in the game.

 

Yes, I agree. It only takes one silver to own your own deed. However that hardly helps the lack of community this game provides. Everyone can have their own deed by themselves forever isolated in a sea of wilderness. Now provide a small area on a deed for an even cheaper price of a few copper and now you get in the levels where even a silver will go a long way. All the while being near other players to learn, grow, help and succeed in the community and have more fun with interaction.

 

To your point of "Real Estate fraud in Wurm!"... Firstly it is disappointing that you would have that impression for other players in this game however I cannot disagree that there are certain players that do indeed play that way. I would think there would be identifiers in these cases for the player interested in purchasing these properties should notice. Such as the history of the deed. Has it been around long? Are there other citizens? Existing structures that time an effort has been put in that show intrinsic value to the deed owner? If there are no buildings on the deed; if the history is only a few weeks; if there are very few if any citizens with the deed then it is most likely not a good idea to put your value in the property. If the buyer doesn't look into the safety of their own value and is duped like this... well thats on them. Report the toon that owned the deed if you get enough reports against your toon... ban. Period. I have updated my post with the idea that renting spots is a more viable option and would possibly alleviate this "Real Estate fraud" idea.

 

The point of this idea is to alleviate the distraction of micromanaging the deed to a more free flow  approach, so both the mayor and the new citizen can have a bit of buffer from any misunderstandings. The mayor set an area that the citizen can do what they want without the risk of anything getting ruined for the deed owner and The deed owner no longer has to put so much effort into getting citizens. As far as "... better options already exist.", well that is up to an individuals preference an opinion. I cannot ague the point with the exception that it is my opinion that the "existing options" are lackluster in comparison.

 

Thank-you for your input and Happy Wurming!

Edited by Enigma_Prime
Noticed some errors in spelling. Likly more by meh...

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13 minutes ago, Enigma_Prime said:

As I do see your point on this, albeit a bit intense,

Yep, I was having a bit of fun with you on the Real Estate fraud thing (although would not be surprised to see it happen sometimes). As for the rest, players who invite others to their deeds can already set specific permissions for them in various ways. Always some management and discernment necessary when doing so.

 

Various individual deeds also form Alliances for their own "community" which gives them a chat tab as well, so they are not then "isolated in a sea of wilderness" if they do not wish to be. Community is what you make of it for yourself in this game and really is more influenced by one's personality than anything else. The best part of this game is that it offers everyone the option on how they choose to play it in that respect.

 

27 minutes ago, Enigma_Prime said:

Thank-you for your input and Happy Wurming!

 

And Happy Trails to You

=Ayes= 

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3 minutes ago, Ayes said:

Yep, I was having a bit of fun with you on the Real Estate fraud thing (although would not be surprised to see it happen sometimes). As for the rest, players who invite others to their deeds can already set specific permissions for them in various ways. Always some management and discernment necessary when doing so.

 

Various individual deeds also form Alliances for their own "community" which gives them a chat tab as well, so they are not then "isolated in a sea of wilderness" if they do not wish to be. Community is what you make of it for yourself in this game and really is more influenced by one's personality than anything else. The best part of this game is that it offers everyone the option on how they choose to play it in that respect.

 

 

And Happy Trails to You

=Ayes= 

 

I was wondering if you had a bit of sarcasm in there but i wasn't too sure. It is hard to tell with webposts. I am one of the individuals that have an alliance as well however this idea is to build upon that community. Thank you for the clarification!

 

Enjoy!

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