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Etherdrifter

4 Years - 1 Spell

138 posts in this topic

12 minutes ago, Finnn said:

free alts are locked at 20.00,

some priests grind specific skills to 90/+ for specific purposes..

you want to lower their extra special skills to 20?

 

Not really. I proposed another, easily balanced system (plant 10 trees can become plant 1000 trees with a few keystrokes) already in this thread. I just want to understand the reasoning of most people here and give my 2 irons.

 

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@Erlindurchopping trees with deity 'permission' is ok(for these who's deity usually disallows that), mining.. kind of, but continue and improving are dipping into the salty parts of this discussion :/

I'd rather use a timed buff with a constant or varying timer, ..instead of praying for blessed item, and than using the item on a tree/rock tile/etc.. to be able to chop/mine/...

 

I can't think of a way to allow priests to continue and improve things.(it just blurs the borders)

And if that is done... why should crafters not receive the equal ability to cast spells whenever they feel like it, with equivalent random new mechanic to also annoy them before they're allowed to use the spells?

Than we're just half a step from mixing the 2 and into 1 'class' and doing everything from 1 character.

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On previous occasions I have suggested giving priests access to the same abilities as FREE characters.

 

A common line of argument expressed is that this would be going too far.  I disagree with that sentiment quite strongly (if I can already do it with my free alt then I'm not cutting into anyone's market).  However, implementing it would be very difficult, thus my reason for not pushing further.

 

Something that might be worthwhile is enchanted items craftable only by priests (wands of blessing, genesis apples, courier charms etc).

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Continuing an improving is what makes crafters, crafters. I agree. You forsake that for the ability to cast spells as a priest.

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5 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Something that might be worthwhile is enchanted items craftable only by priests (wands of blessing, genesis apples, courier charms etc).

In other words priest-exclusive "runes" or "spell-scrolls" to mail around and sell? (it's just ironic how much you hate runes for being spells and craftable, but want to mimic same thing with spells and have them priest-exclusive, with no rift materials:ph34r:)

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In a RP sense, I dont see why a Deity should allow their spells to be used by a non priest this way, or a priest of another religion.

 

In the practical sense, I see no reason why should devs take away the requirement of a priest to travel places. Anything that eliminates player interaction is bad for the game.

 

I could see scrolls and wands used by priests with the ability to cast the spell that are otherwise unable to (favor, faith, etc), as to supplement one's priest, but I am opposed to a player mailing another, say, a ring of Courier, 3 charges, so they can enchant their own mailbox.

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Followers could be given powers from libila.. she's outcasted.. who says she plays nice and by the rules..

Could be trying to corrupt the poor followers of other deities on freedom cluster into sacrificing things for her own powers to grow and eventually return to freedom D:, meanwhile rewarding the clueless fools with small favors for that serving. Lore...

 

Topic's about new spells.. in general?..

 

Not serious about the text above... but .. you know.. food for thought.. so many possibilities

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Who are you? Where is Finnn and what have you done with them?

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7 hours ago, Finnn said:

@Erlindurchopping trees with deity 'permission' is ok(for these who's deity usually disallows that), mining.. kind of, but continue and improving are dipping into the salty parts of this discussion :/

I'd rather use a timed buff with a constant or varying timer, ..instead of praying for blessed item, and than using the item on a tree/rock tile/etc.. to be able to chop/mine/...

 

 

A timer could work but I dislike it from a programmer's perspective. A "blessed"* flag on objects might be easier to implement and it gives me more opportunities to do other things as well.

 

Quote

I can't think of a way to allow priests to continue and improve things.(it just blurs the borders)

And if that is done... why should crafters not receive the equal ability to cast spells whenever they feel like it, with equivalent random new mechanic to also annoy them before they're allowed to use the spells?

Than we're just half a step from mixing the 2 and into 1 'class' and doing everything from 1 character.

 

Like giving objects a cap. A blessed for crafting object could be capped at 20 ql (or even 10, or whatever balance dictates). We want to emulate what a free alt can do without breaking the existing mechanics. OK, my priest takes the "blessed acorn of crafting" and applies it to an unfinished item. That item (or wall, object, you get the idea) is now flagged as "blessed". A priest can continue building it but it's ql is capped at 20. If the initial item had better ql, it falls to 20. If the item is something a free alt could not craft, it shatters (or gets the "this item is too complicated to bless" message). 

 

That way a priest can build a house (a low ql one but who cares if it is deeded) and craft some basic stuff for everyday use. I don't think the market is going to get upset about this. Sure a priest could start mass producing enchanted versions of low ql items but this is something he can already do with a free alt.

 

As for imping, my initial idea was for simple restoration of decaying tools but i can see there is lots of room for abuse, so we can leave this restriction untouched. No "blessed acorn of improving". If your tools decay, my dear priest, then either build new ones or better yet, go find a crafter.

 

* I use the word blessed because I cannot think a better one. Not to confuse with the bless spell. Feel free to help me find a better word.

 

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1 hour ago, Erlindur said:

 

A timer could work but I dislike it from a programmer's perspective. A "blessed"* flag on objects might be easier to implement and it gives me more opportunities to do other things as well.

 

 

Like giving objects a cap. A blessed for crafting object could be capped at 20 ql (or even 10, or whatever balance dictates). We want to emulate what a free alt can do without breaking the existing mechanics. OK, my priest takes the "blessed acorn of crafting" and applies it to an unfinished item. That item (or wall, object, you get the idea) is now flagged as "blessed". A priest can continue building it but it's ql is capped at 20. If the initial item had better ql, it falls to 20. If the item is something a free alt could not craft, it shatters (or gets the "this item is too complicated to bless" message). 

 

That way a priest can build a house (a low ql one but who cares if it is deeded) and craft some basic stuff for everyday use. I don't think the market is going to get upset about this. Sure a priest could start mass producing enchanted versions of low ql items but this is something he can already do with a free alt.

 

As for imping, my initial idea was for simple restoration of decaying tools but i can see there is lots of room for abuse, so we can leave this restriction untouched. No "blessed acorn of improving". If your tools decay, my dear priest, then either build new ones or better yet, go find a crafter.

 

* I use the word blessed because I cannot think a better one. Not to confuse with the bless spell. Feel free to help me find a better word.

 

I dont like allowing a priest to make stuff that is not a base need of the character: A priest making a bucket so he can milk cows or a cheese drill to make cheese are not necessary, nor is it a required item of the profession. Its dipping into the realm of crafters.

 

An altar, a statuette, maybe a single tile temporary shelter such as a tent. These are basic survival tools. A tent allows for a place to hitch your horse you have no saddle for and provides storage space. These are necessities. Creature comforts can be purchased from other players or obtained through bartering: "I'll courier your mailbox if you imp my sword to 80."

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

44 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

 

An altar, a statuette, maybe a single tile temporary shelter such as a tent. These are basic survival tools. A tent allows for a place to hitch your horse you have no saddle for and provides storage space. These are necessities. Creature comforts can be purchased from other players or obtained through bartering: "I'll courier your mailbox if you imp my sword to 80."

 

Well that is easy. Crude altar, made as a single action with a pickaxe on a iron rock you get from foraging and a crude statuette using a carving knife on a branch. Both items created at 1/10th of the ql of the base item, ie a 90ql rock will produce a 9ql altar. This to make those altars decay away fast if abandoned.

 

As for the tent, try a summon tent spell with a duration of 24 + [casting power] hours.

 

Edited by Erlindur

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14 hours ago, Finnn said:

In other words priest-exclusive "runes" or "spell-scrolls" to mail around and sell? (it's just ironic how much you hate runes for being spells and craftable, but want to mimic same thing with spells and have them priest-exclusive, with no rift materials:ph34r:)

 

Heh, I rather hate the notion of runes because they are magic that is (for all intents and purposes) inaccessible to priests, they essentially insult players who gave up the majority of game content for magic (though I notice you have no indignation over such a thing) ;)

 

 

There is a great difference between "basic survival" on wurm and "basic gameplay".  I manage basic survival fine; I've adapted to gather rotting logs when I see them, never travel far without my cart, always keep some kindling stocked, ensure my tent is always on my person, keep a spare statue around, etc.  It took a minimal amount of "crafter-priest" interaction to meet those needs (actually these are things older players routinely donate to newer ones).

 

However, things like getting tools and weapons imped up, or runes made for me, costs me considerably.  What I produce from magic casts is nowhere near enough to trade (remember, once courier is cast you never need it cast again, enchantments decay A LOT slower than item QL etc) so I'm pretty much reliant on the charity of others for such services (gods bless my alliance, housemate, rifts and impalongs).  Getting buildings made is even more costly; I'm still waiting to find a volunteer to replace my ground floor walls XD

 

The point here being that magic doesn't just need extending to the point where priests can survive, we already have such a situation.  It needs to be extended so that they can:

 

a.  Survive without insane workarounds

b.  Satisfy a need crafters have to facilitate trade (currently there is no market even for highly enchanted items)

c.  Replace "pet priests" in terms of how hard they are to train (get 70 faith from sermon group, never pay for genesis again)

 

The solution to c. would make life a lot harder on newer priests, though if a. and b. are well implemented this would be counteracted somewhat.  My personal thought would be to split channeling off into (or have it as the parent of) 4 other skills; Abjuration (buff spells), Enchantment (enchanting objects), Invocation (direct damage spells) and Transmutation (misc spells).  Tie casting power to these and channeling (75% main skill, 25% channeling).  Introduce other methods of gaining spells; make genesis require both AH and AT at 50 rather than just unlocking at 70 faith for example; have lurker in the deep unlock via sacrificing a rare shark; etc.  In essence, make training an effective priest as challenging as training an effective channeler.

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I'll start this off with the fact that I don't have a priest.

On 5/19/2017 at 8:52 AM, Wargasm said:

It's not "quality of life" it is character homogenization, and a complete game changer which I oppose.


Because you profit off it.

 

On 5/19/2017 at 7:43 PM, Wargasm said:

People that don't have priests buy or trade for CoC/WoA tools.  It's always been that way.


Actually, there are those of us who don't buy anything of the sort. I run around with blanks. Most of that stuff is horribly over-priced because of profit-mongering in this game. Heck, I had to buy a collapse for my mine at one point and it was a full SILVER just to get one tile collapsed (This was before the forage for coin days where we could easily make a coin or two...when all we had was the sell to token mechanic to make coins)...so I sit here with a mine that can't get sorted because I won't pay 22 silvers for each collapse I currently need because some price-gouging individual who wants to make bank off players is reaping benefits. I've also had a bag full of gems for sale (Which priests need for leveling some skill or so I hear)...which hasn't sold for over a month now...which is one of the few ways for the normal players to 're-coup' the money from the money-pits that are priests. This thread is suggesting ways to get rid of the few remaining ways normal players can actually make any money in return from a priest.

On 5/19/2017 at 7:43 PM, Wargasm said:

you need to learn to BARTER with other players

I fully agree that people should barter, the problem is that with how dead certain areas are, there may not be much 'choice' in priests...so then the priest is also having to travel to you. All of this puts the priest in a 'winning' position in bartering because the person who needs a priest's specific service doesn't have a lot of options...it's just 'do without' or 'pay an exorbitant amount for services + travel costs of said priest'...and guess which most people are going to go with?

18 hours ago, Erlindur said:

can simply have a free alt

This is where things are going awry in this. People are just making priest alts because they don't want to depend on another person. The priest restrictions were most likely instituted so they would end up being villagers at someone's deed and helping out around the area, but because priests are so limited most people won't main one, and so we get a lot of diehards with their personal pocket priest alts who are able to access the things 'magic'/spells do in this game, and then a lot of players who just simply can't benefit from anything involved with it, unless they have a 'friend' who is generous enough to help them out.

 


Personally, I would love to see the priest restrictions lifted entirely because that would give my character some more skills to work on/things to do...and I could access some of the stuff I've been denied access to in-game..(Like adjusting my mine so it is done how I want it. Or being able to create tiny batches of dirt instead of having to create drama by going and digging some up somewhere. I likely wouldn't want CoC because I like the challenge/grind, but WoA does sound nice to lower some of the timers...I'd even love to get access to LT for my weapons but since the shatter mechanic is there and I only have max ability to create 48ish weapons..it would probably just blow those up anyway.)...but I'm mostly in the minority in a priest thread...because people see it as a 'I did all this work to get there, so people should be dependent on me/pay me for the work I did' and don't understand that some of us enjoy the thrill of working towards being able to do it ourselves.

The things I pay for with in-game coin are things like a wardrobe enhancement (Style, things that make you look unique/give you the look you want. I'd kill for some steel shoulder pads/a nice blue on black cape with a dragon or something, and the ability to dye my armor.), housing (In this game, the game is about housing, so that one's moot.), or things that increase your ability to play by expanding access in-game (Think UI enhancements, additions that help some area I'm enjoying, or as evidenced by my recent purchase of a JK tower for Freedom, something that makes my area look good. (No affiliation whatsoever with JK, I just like the aesthetics)  )

I honestly don't get why there was this 'Everyone shouldn't be able to access magic' push, but it was a 'thing' for awhile back when Wurm was created and apparently it 'stuck'. Forced inter-dependencies rarely do well in games, they just make people figure out a way around it. (In this game, alts.) Which has turned into 'Well, I pay more to the game than you, so I deserve more' snooty behavior.

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