Posted September 17, 2018 What sort of game would make everyone to pay top dollar for each account, then impose these restrictions, where they have to walk away for days just to play, its just encouraging people to play other games..... and when they find a better game, then they will stop investing in this game. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Ostentatio said: But isn't that exactly why it needs fatigue? If the game encourages you to essentially play it 24/7, it makes sense to impose some kind of incentive or limitation to play it less often. Sleep bonus would do this, but since you can just pay for powders, it sort of doesn't. You keep yammering and no one hears your attempt to dictate play style, no different than some liberal trying to tell us to eat healthy. The fatigue system was not created to make sure people don't play too much, its there to prevent cheating, nothing more. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 What kind of game wants players to play less often? Fatigue's only point is to reduce macro's/bots. It's doing a bad job at that and is just making legitimate hardcore players wait around, looking for something else to play. The hardcore players need to be able to grind when they want however much they want. When a cheater maxes fatigue, they just use another account. Accounts are free or cheap and it's easy to use more than one account at a time. If you could only have one account per email/person, then a fatigue system would make more sense. Fatigue should be removed. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, JakeRivers said: The fatigue system was not created to make sure people don't play too much, its there to prevent cheating, nothing more. Reading the original patch notes, it is intended to serve purposes beyond being an anti-cheat measure. Quote The main reason behind fatigue is to prevent action queueing, but it also serves well in other departments. Honestly, I like fatigue because... well, I have a full-time job and not a huge amount of time to play Wurm. I like that I'm not at too much of a disadvantage compared to people who have absolutely all the time in the world to play. I also feel that grindy/slow MMOs, like Wurm, have an inherent danger of encouraging people to play far more than is healthy, and frankly, I think doing more timed actions in a week than you'd spend at like a 60-hour/week job is probably enough. I understand if people disagree with that line of thinking, but that's fine. It's not as if anything like this will ever have 100% unanimous consensus one way or the other. Edited September 17, 2018 by Ostentatio 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ostentatio said: but it also serves well in other departments. other departments is just anti-cheating don't need to think there is more to this than that there is no game out there who cares how much a person plays, if wurm was worried about that they would make you log out after 8 hours and make sure you dont switch to any other accounts stop with your stupid idea's of your dream utopia of game playing, no one cares how much you play or not play wurm 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 Who cares about the danger to other people? It's not the responsibility of the game developers to watch after the health of the players. I have a full time job as well, and I don't hit the fatigue cap. It shouldn't matter that you and I can't dedicate the same amount of time, the people spending all of their time playing WO should be rewarded by having those high skills. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 When you say these comments, or "quote'' these comments, you are being vague to why fatigue is there, or pointing to ''preventing queueing actions'' which is another way of saying macroing. Which is the point, to preventing macroing, where there are better ways to detect macroing rather than limiting everyone with this ''fatigue'' system. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 Im also concerned, there are people who agree with the comments being made but are worried to "like" it cos there is a ''cap''...….. OMG 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 +1, people have different play styles and a fatigue system shouldn't stop them from playing even when they paid for a month or more of premium to increase their skills. I knew someone who played Wurm most of the day, practically everyday, because he did not work and had other issues as well. He hit the fatigue cap, got frustrated that he couldn't do what he wanted to do and after awhile decided to quit the game. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, JakeRivers said: there is no game out there who cares how much a person plays This is not true. Other MMOs, such as World of Warcraft, have implemented (or at least experimented with) systems to incentivize playing for shorter periods: WoW in particular has things like loading screen tips reminding you not to play too much, as well as certain features that are time-restricted. City of Heroes gives temporary "Day Job" bonuses based on how long you've been logged out. Sort of a similar concept to Sleep Bonus, except in Wurm you can just buy that in powdered form. Similar feature in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Similar in Final Fantasy XIV, with the bonus increasing with time logged out. Many, many games give you pop-ups or warnings about playing too much, albeit without game mechanics forcing it. These are just a few examples involving more popular games. Plenty of games, including many lesser known, have mechanical incentives specifically implemented to encourage people not to play around the clock, whether it's providing bonuses from being logged out, content that has real-time cooldown on it so you can't just do the same thing over and over, diminishing returns on stuff like gold and EXP after a certain amount of play time, straight-up telling the player "maybe it's time to take a break", etc. etc. Even when I was 10 years old playing Earthbound on the SNES, the game had an internal timer that had your in-game dad call you after a while and say it might be time for a break. And that's just what I was able to find from memory and a few minutes of Googling. Feel free to agree or disagree that it's a good idea, but it's demonstrably false to say that Wurm is the only game to care how much time people are spending on it. Game developers have been thinking about this for longer than many people here have been alive, and with MMOs in particular it's become a much more prominent concern. Edited September 17, 2018 by Ostentatio 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) I bet other games are experiencing the same complaints from their players also. I think it is up to the individual player to decide when he/she should stop playing. Edited September 17, 2018 by Evarya 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 One can buy many times as much sleep powder by working for an hour as a job compared to working for an hour in Wurm. Sleep bonus is easier to use and to get as someone who works a full time job with some discretionary income. If I work for an hour, I can buy 10+ sleep powder. There are some games which limit players, but not to the extent that fatigue does in Wurm. You cannot do anything in Wurm without fatigue. The time-restricted features are equivalent to meditation skill ticks. You can do something else in the game while you wait for these timers to end. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Dadadah said: One can buy many times as much sleep powder by working for an hour as a job compared to working for an hour in Wurm. Sleep bonus is easier to use and to get as someone who works a full time job with some discretionary income. If I work for an hour, I can buy 10+ sleep powder. Right, which is why sleep powder doesn't really serve as that kind of incentive. I'm not disagreeing with that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 No I'm arguing that it does serve as that kind of incentive. Someone who has a job can buy more sleep powder than someone who doesn't (in general). Hence, people who play less and work more (irl) can gain skills faster when they are playing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) That's fair, although honestly, the kind of people who would buy a lot of sleep powder in Wurm (because they play/grind that much) are often the type to be able to buy it anyway using in-game currency. Probably. 17 minutes ago, Evarya said: I bet other games are experiencing the same complaints from their players also. I think it is up to the individual player to decide when he/she should stop playing. Maybe they are; I have no idea. I was just making the point that other games have indeed done this sort of thing, and for more explicit reasons; game developers have been "caring about" this for a very long time, MMOs moreso. As far as your second point: That's a very contentious issue. Online games, especially MMOs with a lot of grinding or repetitious content, have a way of drawing people in for countless hours, in a way that the player might not even anticipate before they start doing it. Human behavior is very fallible like that (see also: gambling). How much is required of a service provider to be "responsible" when the service lends itself to shaping behavior this way is an open question, and while I understand your perspective on it, it's not the only reasonable perspective on the subject in existence. Edited September 17, 2018 by Ostentatio 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 You can go off topic and argue till your blue in the face, but the reality is, there is an overwhelming amount of people who disagree with the current ''fatigue'' system. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 dw when i hit fatigue i just log out and go play WoW, which has absolutely no limits on the amount of game time I can have per day thx 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 Considering the fatigue system doesn't take into account alts, the only thing it penalizes is people who grind effectively or bicycle accounts that grind 24/7 (who does that anymore) Bots aren't effected as being up 24/7 is ez ban (probably the only response i get to the fatigue system is stops bots, which it doesn't.) Normal players aren't effected as they don't play 8h/d People running heaps of accs aren't effected People that hit fatigue either just go play something else or do fatigueless actions in wurm like hunt or panfilling I don't see what it's intended to do, maybe 10 years ago when 5 people all grinding on 1 acc 24/7 meant something when you couldn't just buy an account with 90 everything and enough coc/sleep powder available that you can hit 90 in a week but it's just an outdated system nowadays 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) As a paying customer, I would like to see this system fixed. Some of my friends have lost interest in this game because of fatigue issues they have. Over the past 5-6 years I have played, we have lost a lot of players, can this game afford to keep losing it players because they are not listening to them on issues like this, where it affects the hard core players who invest the most. Edited September 17, 2018 by Evarya 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Ostentatio said: mindless yammering about how everyone should only play a few hours a day of any type of gaming whatever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Evarya said: As a paying customer, I Sorry I stopped reading right there. You do not own your account, they do. You do not own your skills, they do. You do not own your shiny rare knarr, or anything else that you hold dear... they do. And they can take it from you if the mood catches them right. I guarantee you they did not lose thousands of players due to fatigue. Fatigue affects cheaters, nothing more... and those people got banned, they didn't choose to quit. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 18, 2018 The system was fixed. https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/154415-fixed-login-resets-current-fatigue-counter/&tab=comments#comment-1581193 I can certainly see the argument that, "I paid for this!" That doesn't always mean what you think it means though, particularly in other cultures. This is a Swedish game and I can't help but wonder if there's something about the Swedish ethos that is just different from an American mindset. Not everything is a race to the max. Korean games are reflective of Korean culture, why would a Swedish game not reflect something about Swedish culture? Maybe it's about balance. Either way, the conversation seems so similar to many in past years, I can't imagine the result would be any different. People who want fatigue removed should probably come up with a new strategy. Outrage hasn't worked. "I'm a victim of draconian play-style policies!!!"... hasn't worked. "Everybody who's anybody I care about agrees with me!!"... you get the pattern here. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 18, 2018 The system needs to go it doesnt need fixing the only purpose it serves is to prevent a bot from running 24/7 which to be honest any smart person who bots in any game knows to cycle your bots and never ever pull multiple 24 hour periods on any 1 account(look at diablo 3 for a good example with most who moan and whine about being banned letting bots run 24/7 and those who get away entire seasons only letting bots run during usual play times) the fatigue system does not work for those who are grinding their skills to 95+ with 8 hours a day of mining with sleep bonus netting 0.50-0.60 if lucky it reaches a point where you have to put in long days if you want to reach those last few points now even a grind from 85 to 95 will make you run out of fatigue around 92 if you do it 8 hours a day of focused mining(not that hard to do with wurm assistant and a few movies or a good tv show) all that ends up happening is that we are left with an account that cant do anything because our play style isnt wanted and people trying to ###### and moan trying to protect a system that promotes casual playing as casual players dont like those who have more time then them to get ahead >.> which to be honest is a stupid ###### arguement you want more time? quit your job or maybe be unlucky and get let go of your job and while you are looking for a new one spend all your free time in wurm(like i do) id gladly have your life of having a job and a busy rl to the point where i cant hit the fatigue cap as i cant spend that much time on wurm but alas i have all the free time in the world after my morning routine of getting up checking my mail for any new job listings on all the sites i signed up for and applying for anything that showed up and having breakfast and doing my chores after that from 10am till 1pm its wurm followed by lunch then more wurm till 6-7pm for dinner and then more wurm till midnight-2am and then sleep why should those who have the free time to play wurm a lot(and often have multiple toons as well) get punished because casual players feel like its unfair? i hit the cap or get close to it quite often due to the simple fact that my life lets me what else should i do when i hit the cap? sit on my priest alt and stare at cows or play a other game? last time i hit it it meant playing a other game and i didnt bother coming back for a week almost as i know once hit its a pain to get it back to where you can pull a full day of wurm so in short all the fatigue cap does is push the grindy people with free time away from wurm as they cant fill their time with wurm which means there is a higher chance they will leave if they find a game that catches their interest more and thus lower income for codeclub and with how many people quit wurm every year id say getting rid of the fatigue cap might help stem the flow of people who leave as yes it might not be a lot of us but the few who do it hit often have multiple toons some of us 5-6 toons(different priests/brought toons) there goes a potential 40 to 46 euro's per person who does go down that road and quits because of frustration with this add in all the other things that are going on thats making people quit and wurm is loosing money left and right so why keep a system that promotes quitting? and thus +1 get rid of it as it serves no purpose to any legit person who has a lot of free time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, wipeout said: the only purpose it serves is to prevent a bot from running 24/7 I'm guessing that the Wurm bot detection system is pretty weak. This just tries to minimize the damage of botters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Wargasm said: You do not own your account, they do. You do not own your skills, they do. You do not own your shiny rare knarr, or anything else that you hold dear... they do. And they can take it from you if the mood catches them right. I dare you to show this to your landlord. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites