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Malena

Is it possible to create a "look but can't touch" server?

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I've had wurm unlimited from when it was first released, but the only thing I've ever really done with it is try out some wild house designs with the god tools.

 

Other than that, I don't really comprehend the full scale of what is technically possible and what is not.

 

I know you can 1) create your own private server (as I have done) 2) create a private server with a password for you and your friends 3) create a public server. 

 

I have no interest in playing on other people's servers (other than visiting them as a tourist). 

I have no interest in becoming a gm and running a server that other people play on. I only want the server to be up and alive when I choose to turn my computer on and play on it.

 

Instead, what I'd like to do is create a server that others can visit, but can't interact (like building a house or setting up a deed). All they should be able to do is walk around and explore. Think of it like this: the whole server would be like one huge deed: as with normal deeds, you can look but can't touch.

 

Besides, I wouldn't want them to waste time setting up deeds since I don't want the server to be running unless it's because I'm playing at that moment. So it has to be immediately evident that they can't do much there. Am I correct in assuming that for a server to be running, it's completely dependant on our computers being on to keep it running and playable? That there are no wurm servers that we can have our servers on? Even if that were the case, I still wouldn't be interested in the responsibilities of being a gm and having people's game play experience be on my shoulders. I just wanna have relaxed fun building crazy stuff with the god tools and if a visitor or two happen to come see the server once in a while, cool 

 

Is it technically possible? And if it is, how is it done? 

 

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Another question: The stuff I create using the god tools, does it decay? Because when I "examine" walls of houses for instance, I don't see any info about damage, just a bunch of GM jargon. 

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3 hours ago, Malena said:

Am I correct in assuming that for a server to be running, it's completely dependant on our computers being on to keep it running and playable? That there are no wurm servers that we can have our servers on? 

 

 

Code Club hosts only the WO servers, however what i think you are asking about is a hosted server, where for a small fee you pay to have them run the server 24/7 for you (as "owner" you can shut it down any time you want.) You want to read carefully in the HOSTING PROVIDERS SUBFORUM for information and prices from different companies.  I can;t remember but it seems many charge by how many "slots" your server can handle, so you can pay rather little for a hosted server than can handle say, 4-16 people or something.

 

It's probably possible to set up a "Look but Don't Touch" server but frankly i have no idea why anyone would want to visit it then. It's basically a 3D version of you showing off the things that you have done which is also accomplished faster and more convenient by posting screenshots or even making a youtube video of your private projects.

 

Someone here will probably know more about the technical aspects of how to do somethng like that. it sounds like something that could be modded. 

 

 

 

 

PS: I cannot even now begin to express how much joy your horse textures (Or maybe meshes too, I was never quite clear if you did both)  have given me over the years, I think I never said THANK YOU.

 

>> OLD MODELS  (look without laughing, i dare you!)

 

>> MALENA"S MODELS

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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One could simply wall in the required area and deed it beyond the maximum size (if required).   Then set permissions accordingly so Spectators can pass through doors and not much else.

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Yes that would be easiest, a little like the original GV tutorial area where you could see over the walls but never go there (at least not as a new login). Just log in, wander about, then log out, with indestructible walls fencing it all in.

 

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1 minute ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

 

Code Club hosts only the WO servers, however what i think you are asking about is a hosted server, where for a small fee you pay to have them run the server 24/7 for you (as "owner" you can shut it down any time you want.) You want to read carefully in the HOSTING PROVIDERS SUBFORUM for information and prices from different companies.  I can;t remember but it seems many charge by how many "slots" your server can handle, so you can pay rather little for a hosted server than can handle say, 8-16 people ossomething.

 

It's probably possible to set up a "Look but Don't Touch" server but frankly i have no idea why anyone would want to visit it then. It's basically a 3D version of you showing off the things that you have done which is also accomplished faster and more convenient by posting screenshots or even making a youtube video of your private projects.

 

Someone here will probably know more about the technical aspects of how to do somethng like that.

 

 

 

 

PS: I cannot even now begin to express how much joy your horse models have given me over the years, I think I never said THANK YOU.

 

OLD MODELS

 

MALENA"S MODELS

 

 

 

Thanks for the info! 

 

Before I say anything else, I have to clear something up. I did not make the horse 3d models/meshes, the Wurm devs did :). The only thing I did, was take the existing horse texture they had made, tweak it in Photoshop, do some color changes, add some details like the pinto coloring, stripes, socks etc to create the 3 rare horse color skins (pinto, blood bay, ebony black). But both the horse 3D mesh and the original horse textures (white, gold, brown, normal black, grey) I used as a base, have been made by the Wurm artists.

 

And about Unlimited - yeah I couldn't imagine paying for any hosted server. It's enough for my computer to run unlimited while I play. But it's nice that that option is out there, for folks wanting to run a serious server.

 

About the motivation for someone to go to "tour" a server. The motivation to do so, would be the same motivation we have to go sailing to other servers in Wurm online, or to travel to see someone's deed. We'd never plan to build anything on the server we go check out, nor could we do anything to someone's deed, but it's still fun to explore. I know that at some point I'm probably going to go touring some of the more notable unlimited servers even though I don't aim to settle down in them. Admittedly however, I've not yet once done that heheh. 

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8 minutes ago, Nomadikhan said:

One could simply wall in the required area and deed it beyond the maximum size (if required).   Then set permissions accordingly so Spectators can pass through doors and not much else.

 

I could, but what worries me is a newbie player logging on to my server (not understanding that unlimited servers are run by players and can vanish at any time) and investing time and effort into starting to make stuff, even build a house. Only for them to find that the next time they're ready to play the game - they don't even see the server existing in the list. I want something so clear, that as soon as they try to cut down a tree, dig ground etc, that they get a message in the event window saying something along the lines of "This is not permitted on this server" etc.

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14 minutes ago, Malena said:

 But both the horse 3D mesh and the original horse textures (white, gold, brown, normal black, grey) I used as a base, have been made by the Wurm artists. 

 

 

i now think  i remember them saying back in 2011, that they had purchased a horse model to use in the game, it's possible that I am mis-remembering but if it was the same one they later used, it may have been an outside purchased asset with limited textures. But i always think of you as the one who made them special. 

 

PS: some of the prices for a hosted server are as little as $6 a month I think, so its not like a huge investment and possibly less than the cost of leaving your own computer running. Obviously the big public servers run on much much more expensive plans, hosting large maps with thousands ogf creatures and lots of ram and cpu power. A limited showcase server would be closer to the $6/mo range.

 

 

Also, the 'visitors" would not be able to make anything (assuming permissions were set) -- they could not chop trees or mine or dig and you would like also give them no tools or starting gear and not allow them to pick up anything. So even if they were 'veteran" WO players, they are limited to nothing more than tourists. They could mnnot make items, build houses, use skills, or even have anything to equip.

 

the only way to make it clear in advance what this server "os", is to make it part of the server's name : "Malena's Personal Showcase : Limited Viewing Only"     or something

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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Just now, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

 

i now think  i remember them saying back in 2011, that they had purchased a horse mdoel to use in the game, it's possible that I am misremembering but it may have been an asset with limited textures. But i always th9nk of you as the one who made them special

 

PS: some of the prices for a hosted server are as little as $6 a month I think, so its not like a huge investment and possibly less than the cost of leaving your own computer running. 

 

Obviously the big public servers run on much more expensive plans.

 

 

Also, the 'visitors" would not be able to make anything (assuming permissions were set) -- they could not chop trees or mine or dig and you would like also give them no tools and not allow them to pick up anything. 

 

 

 

 

 

Aww well thank you very much *blush*.

 

Oh I didn't know that they purchased it! Interesting, the things you find out.

 

$6 Ain't bad, true. But all the GM responsibilities. Having such a weight on your shoulders - that someone's hundreds of hours and effort is all in your hands. I couldn't bear the responsibility! And I also would never want to deal with players asking me to modify some settings or resolve their griefing issues etc etc. I just want to relax and have fun.

 

Yep, they could only walk around. Just like on someone's deed that has all security permissions set.

 

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Well its also possible they they bought a horse model that they never used, and that the current art team made the one they DID use, I only know there was some interest back then when we were told rolf had purchased some new horse models. If I messed up my recollections, then i owe the art team here a giant apology.  I now recall there was also a POLL on what type of horse body players wanted, suggesting it was an inhouse/staff project. So possibly I was confusing "sheep" and "horses" or something-something-something.

 

 

i think I had probably go take my daily nap as it sounds like I am waaaay past due for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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11 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

Well its also possible they they bought a horse model that they never used, and that the current art team made the one they DID use, I only know there was some interest back then when we were told rolf had purchased some new horse models. If I messed up my recollections, then i owe the art team here a giant apology.  I now recall there was also a POLL on what type of horse body players wanted, suggesting it was an inhouse/staff project. So possibly I was confusing "sheep" and "horses" or something-something-something.

 

Ooooh I had never seen that poll. It was probably just before I started playing wurm. Interesting! I'm a big fan of arabian horses myself, but yeah, perhaps they're not the best fit for the wurm environment. Would be super cool though if arabians spawned on sandy tiles, whilst cold blooded breeds spawned in high "cold" altitudes.

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At one time they said "maybe" they would have stallions and mares  look different (as do cows & bulls, doe and stag, ram & ewe) with mares having a slim "Arabian" build and stallions having a muscular "Friesian" build. However, I am not certain they ever ended up making a "fresian" style horse (winner of the poll) as they usually are I think a bit more bulky and "workhorse" shaped -- kind of an elegant Clydesale --  than what we have now, which seem more of a middle ground between riding horse and workhorse:

 

 

Friesian breed:

oldstyle.gif

 

 

Wurm Horse:

A7HvGT5CYAEC5cF.jpg

 

 

Ooooh, i found a picture of the horses they originally teased we were getting, and what i was thinking of when I first started babbling about "new" horse models (source

 

horse_new.jpg

 

as you can see those look a little different than what we have now. We never did get the horses in that last photo. Perhaps it was a first run before they decided on a final shape, or perhaps they are by a different modeler and one was "in-house" and one was "purchased" -- only the dev team members fromn 2010 ish era will know for sure! Originally our Funky Wurm Horse (we had to stand on them upright like a circus acrobat as there were no saddles or sitting  riding animations -- in fact even wurm characters all looked identical back then) had five colors -- grey white brown gold black --  and I think the intent was to introduce five new versions of those same colors.

 

edit: Rolf's original phrasing was that the art staff "picked" the models and they would have no animations (original horses didn't either, all animals glided around on ice skates) ) , which is perhaps where I got the idea they had purchased the models with art team having decisions on what to get...?? Also that last picture, the colors did not match the 'five classic wurm colors" so it seemed maybe they were no inhouse models. But maybe i was mistaken back then as well. Possibly also the origin of my confusion that maybe you had made the meshes/models of the ones that ended up ingame, in part because of the full color chart you did of possible new colors. and how different these models ended up being than the original teased photo...

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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4 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

At one time they said "maybe" they would have stallions and mares  look different (as do cows & bulls, doe and stag, ram & ewe) with mares having a slim "Arabian" build and stallions having a muscular "Friesian" build. However, I am not certain they ever ended up making a "fresian" style horse (winner of the poll) as they usually are I think a bit more bulky and "workhorse" shaped -- kind of an elegant Clydesale --  than what we have now, which seem more of a middle ground between riding horse and workhorse

 

Thank you so much for sharing all of this interesting history! I had no idea. I think I'd seen that picture of the arabs at some point, but can't remember where and I certainly wasn't aware of it's context!

 

Interesting that they were considering making stallions a bulkier breed with mares being more like arabs. I'm trying to envision how that would have felt. I think for people who don't know anything about horse breeds, it'd have worked just fine, but for those of us who know the breeds - I think it'd have eternally felt like I'm crossbreeding two entirely different breeds. Yeah I don't think I'd have liked it, so I'm glad they didn't go for that. But you know what I've always dreamt of? That the mares could start to show a bit when they are heavy with foal. Pregnant mares IRL are so cute with their big bellies, it would look cute in the game as well and it would serve a game usability purpose as well to see which mares are about to give birth soon. One time I even took the 3d model and tried to modify the existing mesh to see if it could be done. Here were the results:

 

pregnantmare_00.gif 

 

pregnantmare_01.gif

 

pregnantmare_02.gif

 

pregnantmare_03.gif

 

pregnantmare_04.gif

 

The main reason I decided to not "suggest" it in the forums was because I felt the mesh did not have quite enough polygons in the mesh to support it and still look good enough. But still, it would be have been fun!

 

As for the model they chose in the end, I think it was a wise choice to go with a very "middle ground" model. It's easy to envision the current model for "all purposes".

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

horse_new.jpg

 

as you can see those look a little different than what we have now. We never did get the horses in that last photo. Perhaps it was a first run before they decided on a final shape, or perhaps they are by a different modeler and one was "in-house" and one was "purchased" -- only the dev team members fromn 2010 ish era will know for sure! Originally our Funky Wurm Horse (we had to stand on them upright like a circus acrobat as there were no saddles or sitting  riding animations -- in fact even wurm characters all looked identical back then) had five colors -- grey white brown gold black --  and I think the intent was to introduce five new versions of those same colors.

 

edit: Rolf's original phrasing was that the art staff "picked" the models and they would have no animations (original horses didn't either, all animals glided around on ice skates) ) , which is perhaps where I got the idea they had purchased the models with art team having decisions on what to get...?? Also that last picture, the colors did not match the 'five classic wurm colors" so it seemed maybe they were no inhouse models. But maybe i was mistaken back then as well. Possibly also the origin of my confusion that maybe you had made the meshes/models of the ones that ended up ingame, in part because of the full color chart you did of possible new colors. and how different these models ended up being than the original teased photo...

 

That row of arabs has a weird blurry texture and the mesh is a bit weird as well. I don't like how the ears are not curved more forward and in like arabs do. Also the texture seems like it was taken at least partially from an actual photo of an arab. However the current horse texture we have in the game is great and really fits well into the wurm world and has that "game graphics feel" as it should, to match the rest of the graphical style. 

 

The funky original horse is a funny part of wurm history. I never got the chance to see it in action, but I've seen videos of it. The game sure has come far since those days!!! 

 

As for the chart of horse colors I did, it was just me taking screenshots of the in game horses and using them as a base for the different experiments. If the body shape of those appear different, it's most likely a visual illusion from color changes etc.  

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I love what you are wanting to do as far as a "look but don't touch" this is what i'm doing right now, however i'm waiting for the new update before doing any serious building, as it would be a waste of time because I would have to go back and redo all of the building. so i'm holding off the time being at least.

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8 minutes ago, ozmods said:

I love what you are wanting to do as far as a "look but don't touch" this is what i'm doing right now, however i'm waiting for the new update before doing any serious building, as it would be a waste of time because I would have to go back and redo all of the building. so i'm holding off the time being at least.

 

Hey ozmods, yeah I bet there are a lot of players out there who would like to have the "my own private server" experience, and yet also be able to share with others. 

 

I'd be interested to hear your plan on how you are going to technically set your server up so it could work this way. 

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So out of curiosity, what actions would you be seeking to allow? simply disable terraforming and building? or treat it like being on an unaffiliated deed with absolutely no permissions?

 

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Im not sure, im none too clever on that, i guess seeking a lot of advice would be where i would start, you can set permissions for buildings and such but beyond that i havent got a clue, right now im still in esrly building phase

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Gm, create deed with gm created silver, 500x500 or whatever distance you want it.

 

Set all permissions so they cannot do anything until invited into town.  Problem solved they won't be able to do anything unless you change it.

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4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

So out of curiosity, what actions would you be seeking to allow? simply disable terraforming and building? or treat it like being on an unaffiliated deed with absolutely no permissions?

 

 

Hey Retro.

 

Short answer:

Treat the whole server like it was my personal giant deed in which I could control settings exactly like I can for deeds. This way - if I chose to at some point - I could allow people to build a house or do other things. Then the settings could be changed easily at any time from deed permissions.

 

But putting aside whether it behaves like a deed or not: 

 

What I want visitors to be able to do:

  • walk/swim/climb around
  • pass through gates and doors (if I had set the door and gate permissions so they can be passed through)
  • sit on chairs

What I don't want players to be able to do:

  • Chop down trees
  • Pick up, drop, move etc
  • Plant, farm, harvest, pick sprout, cut grass etc)
  • Terraform
  • Dig/Pack/Cultivate etc
  • Mine/Tunnel
  • Build anything / Create a deed etc
  • In general, anything that changes the landscape in any way, shape or form
  • In general, anything that gives them the idea that this is a normal server where they can eventually build stuff. 

Giant deed?

So would Brew's suggestion of just making a gigantic deed work? I guess the deed token would have to be smack dab in the middle of the 2048x2048 map, then made to fit the entire map. Is that even technically possible? :-D

 

And I'm guessing that the whole server could not simply be deeded since: 

a) I'm assuming the spawning stones where players arrive into the world for the first time need to be on special tiles and

b ) If the entire map were deeded, that would mean animals and critters would not spawn at all 

 

Long answer:

But the dream solution would be this: 

 

Server settings:

1. The current 2048x2048 map size is pretty sweet and totally explorable by foot. But it would be nice if the GM could also choose a more manageable "touring size" like 1024x1024. Still way bigger than a normal deed would usually be.

2. Being able to set a welcome message to visitors in the Event window such as: "Welcome to Sunny Side Server. This is public server with restricted access. We warmly welcome you to explore!"

3. And then something like "Press <keystroke> for more information on the settings of this server"

4. Allowing visitors to leave messages on the deed message boards. You could do this in Ultima Online and it was super exciting to log on and check who had left you nice messages from their visits to your house

5. Ability to share map settings so the GM could add annotations to explain the locations of interesting sights to see. This would be the default map seen by the player when they open their in game map. They would see any annotations set by the GM. They would not be able to remove GM annotations, but they could add additional ones for themselves if they liked.

 

Visitor settings:

  1. All skills set to 100.0. by default
  2. Ability to catch wild mounts and ride them (so they can have a faster form of transport for exploration)
  3. Ability to sail any size of ship (and then the gm could spawn ships all over the lands, setting their permissions to be publicly usable) - again, so they have a more convenient way to explore
  4. Full nourishment, stamina and water that never goes down, so they can run around and explore without having to worry about food and drink - besides - if they're not able to build or properly interact with the environment, there is no way for them to create food for themselves anyhow
  5. Making visitors invincible (or invisible) to critters and monsters so they don't have to worry about dying first thing
  6. As mentioned in the short answer, they simply could not interact with the landscape other than walk/swim/climb, pass through gates and doors that had the correct permissions for public use and sit on chairs
  7. They could not tame (since this would require interaction with the environment to get taming food), but could lead and ride wild horses (since a rope is part of the newbie backpack these days)

 

 

 

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there is a mod you can setup all tools that new created chars will get at login. just remove all of them and the new chars should not be able to do anything on your server 

just give them a sword/shield a rope and a pottery bowl to fill it with water

 

For the welcome messages i used the announce mod and rebuild it a little bit, its not so hard but i would help you. you can write there all you need, for more information just a simple link to a html site

 

Also for the ingame map is a mod included in agos server mod loader, its good explained how you can insert your own mapgraphic, just draw all the special places with a graphic program on the map and add the file into the mod. Players can see than your created mapfile ingame.

 

Message boards....i think there is now a new one included, but that can just be used by the villagers of a settlement (back to point 1: you could give the new chars a 99ql large sign, they can write text on it and plant it)

 

The skills you can set in your server settings, all new chars will start with them, with skill 100 overall, there should not be a problem riding mounts or driving with all ship types.

 

New chars are safe 24 hours. there is no problem with monsters in this time, except they attack the monsters self (but ...uhm skill 100 is here) ^^

 

Eject

Edited by Eject
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9 hours ago, Eject said:

there is a mod you can setup all tools that new created chars will get at login. just remove all of them and the new chars should not be able to do anything on your server 

just give them a sword/shield a rope and a pottery bowl to fill it with water

 

For the welcome messages i used the announce mod and rebuild it a little bit, its not so hard but i would help you. you can write there all you need, for more information just a simple link to a html site

 

Also for the ingame map is a mod included in agos server mod loader, its good explained how you can insert your own mapgraphic, just draw all the special places with a graphic program on the map and add the file into the mod. Players can see than your created mapfile ingame.

 

Message boards....i think there is now a new one included, but that can just be used by the villagers of a settlement (back to point 1: you could give the new chars a 99ql large sign, they can write text on it and plant it)

 

The skills you can set in your server settings, all new chars will start with them, with skill 100 overall, there should not be a problem riding mounts or driving with all ship types.

 

New chars are safe 24 hours. there is no problem with monsters in this time, except they attack the monsters self (but ...uhm skill 100 is here) ^^

 

Eject

 

Wow wow wow!! Thank you so much for this information Eject!

 

So it actually looks like I could (with the current tools available) fulfill pretty much all of my wishes!

 

I haven't even looked into mods yet, so I wasn't aware that you can control what backpack contents they start off with. A backpack like what you describe, put together with an announcement, would be sufficient in making sure everyone is aware that the server is not meant for making a home on. Of course, some people will do that regardless, just for the challenge and to defy the guidelines, but it wouldn't be a very rewarding experience for them since the server would not be on long. Can GMs actually annihilate other players houses? I could do that then (in case someone started to do that just for trolling purposes) and then plant a sign in place of the house reminding them of the rules.

 

I didn't know there was a mod for custom map graphics either - that would be awesome! I like that idea even more than what I was suggesting!

 

Including a sign in their backpack is a great idea! It would solve that issue and would actually be pretty fun for the visitors to do as well!

 

Wow, it looks like this dream of mine might just work after all!

 

Thank you so much everyone!

 

 

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Hmmm, I realized there are still things I don't quite understand about Unlimited. 

 

1) If I build houses and other things as a GM on "wild lands", do they decay like they would in Wurm Online? (like I was saying earlier, I couldn't figure this out because when I "examine" the walls of houses (as a GM), there is no damage or QL info, just all sorts of other stats 

 

2) I realized that even though the suggestions above solve a lot of issues, they still don't solve security. So someone visiting could go to the trouble to create proper tools and start breaking down fences etc, right? 

Edited by Malena

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Yes GM-built stuff decayas as normal. You can flag some things as no-decay/indestructible, but i don't think it works on everything.

 

A mod could probably be made that will make the whole server to behave like one huge deed, tho it will need some careful testing to make sure all the corner cases are covered in terms of security.

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9 minutes ago, bdew said:

Yes GM-built stuff decayas as normal. You can flag some things as no-decay/indestructible, but i don't think it works on everything.

 

A mod could probably be made that will make the whole server to behave like one huge deed, tho it will need some careful testing to make sure all the corner cases are covered in terms of security.

 

Ok thank you, good to know! And I logged on. The QL and DMG is there after all, I don't know how I've missed it before. I must have been blind! 

 

 

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