Evarya

Name and Shame

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Have to be impartial about this. He didn't do anything against the rules so no ban is forthcoming. He legit had the passwords, given to him by her.

Okay well just give her account back then write it off, she was in his kingdom? I see absolutely no respect from him to her regardless which is pretty bad, figured same kingdom pvpers watch out for their own. Seriously just give her the account back, write it off, make amends or don't. Account theft is forbidden in TOS so it's very likely Enki will get involved here eventually.

 

 

Edited by Niki

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3 minutes ago, Niki said:

Okay well just give her account back then write it off, she was in his kingdom? I see absolutely no respect from him to her regardless which is pretty bad, figured same kingdom pvpers watch out for their own. Seriously just give her the account back, write it off, make amends or don't. Account theft is forbidden in TOS so it's very likely Enki will get involved here eventually.

 

 

 

The GM team has already been contacted by certain parties over a month ago. There is more to just today, the issues with the account is not just what is being said today, I would have bent over backwards had she reached out to me from the beginning but instead a very very different approach was taken and i do not take it lightly. And you better believe pvpers watch out for their own, I can log into 5 other players main accounts using their actual password and not a hash and again there is 0 issues with account theft. 

 

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Honestly.. what kind of person sells friends account? Even if my friends would tell me, that they quit and gave me password, I would hold on to the account in the hopes, that they will return eventually.. But to sell a friends account for few quick silvers at the expense of someone I care about(no matter what they say).. I don't know...

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Sorry to hear this happened to you Eva, but its a risk that is taken by giving out info. I think your best bet is to talk to Maurizio on facebook or on voice and see if you can come up with a deal of some sort.

 

No way Gms should be involved in this, i'll be facepalming if thats the case lol!

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I love the I would have given it back if you didn't call me out for not returning it when I tried lol

 

I also love the, I paid premium for months on this account I stole so its mine now oh god this is to good material bookmarking this.

 

Join Ebo, they rob you blind is your new motto than? All over an account you got free access to while someone took a break?

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2 hours ago, MaurizioAM said:

 

Bought or not the accounts were given one way or the other. Had she not tried to lie about everything im sure things could and would have gone differently, I no longer owned either accounts 2 months ago, and still do not but I have very direct contact with them. One account went to a player who probably gained 75% of the skills the account has. The other account has passed 2 hands, but i had and still have account access to both. The lying about the accounts is uncalled for and also the reason why I will no longer take any part in communicating about them. I have said the truth about it and i have the original email and passwords saved as proof they were not stolen accounts. 

 

 

 

In that case your placement in this thread is very appropriate IMO.

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2 minutes ago, bdew said:

 

In that case your placement in this thread is very appropriate IMO.

 

I read it as "Oh she was rude to me, so I'm keeping everything I stole." Sure she made a mistake, and sure she didn't go about it the right way, but you banked on accounts that did not belong to you.

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While account theft is obviously forbidden in this game, this situation is not likely to qualify for receiving that tag. 

 

To clarify on this, let me grab the Game Rules and explain:

The Game Rules State:

Spoiler

Account Security
Keep your passwords secure at all times!  (You are solely responsible for the security of your accounts.)
 - Please read this thread on how to improve your account security: http://forum.wurmonl...swords-warning/
 

Account sales
A ) Code Club AB condones account and item sales, as we believe that you have the right to capitalize on your investment in Wurm Online.
B ) We do not offer support or service and will not be held responsible for any remedial action or loss that occurs.
C ) All such activity (sales, auctions, trades, sharing) is entirely at your own risk.
D ) Change the password and e-mail address of acquired accounts. (You are solely responsible for the security of your accounts.)

 

Shared accounts
A ) Code Club AB does not condone sharing or contracting accounts.
B ) You enter into any sharing agreements totally at your own risk.
C ) We do not offer support or service for sharing and will not be held responsible for any remedial action or loss.

 

Let's apply what we just read to this situation! 

Quote

Keep your passwords secure at all times!  (You are solely responsible for the security of your accounts.)

By sharing the password to the character, the account was not kept secure. "You are solely responsible for the security of your accounts" clearly states that this is each players' responsibility.

 

Quote

B ) We do not offer support or service and will not be held responsible for any remedial action or loss that occurs.

Nobody among the dev or staff team will be able to assist you for the loss of characters while trading with them, and none will be able to assist you in regaining control over an account you borrowed to someone else, then lost the info for because it got changed.

 

Quote

Shared accounts
A ) Code Club AB does not condone sharing or contracting accounts.
B ) You enter into any sharing agreements totally at your own risk.
C ) We do not offer support or service for sharing and will not be held responsible for any remedial action or loss.

This is clear - you will not receive support for sharing your account or anything that happened to your account after you shared it. Once you give your account password to someone else voluntarily, your account qualifies as a shared account and you will not receive compensation in case the person of your trust betrays you.

 

While your action - to create a name&shame thread about this - is a perfectly acceptable and understandable step to take, I believe that this conversation should be kept at a productive level. Reading these first 3 pages, this thread hasn't been about the actual events as much as a series of more or less direct insults and accusations that have no place in a public type setting. What exactly happened is something that none of us except for the two people involved can know for sure, and there isn't much good for either party if a continuous aggressive discussion about it takes place here. That will only stir up more angry feelings and lead to insults, swearing and most likely a vast number of posts that will be too inappropriate to leave on the thread.

I also believe that despite your calling attention to your issue, support from staff is, due to the above reasons, not to be expected. And before you hate on staff for making these rules - as a third party nobody on the staff team can reconstruct exactly what happened. When your account is hacked and stolen, you will receive support in regaining control because that is something they can follow up with, but when you give away your passwords, nobody on the staff team can gather all the evidence that would be necessary to even come to a decision on who is right or wrong within such a situation. A lot of the conversations about it would have been on other chatrooms or voice coms, and there just isn't enough to go on to be certain about making the correct choice when interfering.

 

My personal advise is: You have both stated your sides & point of views. The community has shared their points of views. Leave the Name&Shame thread out there because it is important that other people who are considering sharing their passwords with others can see what can happen, and that maybe equal situations involving the same people can be avoided in the future. However, I recommend that if the two involved parties discuss it, this discussion should be private and without input from other members. I also recommend for both people to accept the situation as it is - it is obviously not perfect, and I understand the rage upon returning, thinking you had characters, and finding out they are gone, but I don't think any action you can take beyond this would lead to any of the results you'd like to see, so it would likely only stir more anger within you and remind you of this while you should be looking to move on, hard as that may be.

I can also understand why someone would sell an account if they're dead certain nobody is going to come back for them, but maybe now people realize that it might be best to hold on to accounts you're being given for safekeeping because normally, people always return to Wumr sooner or later.

 

If either of you need to vent and talk about this situation, feel free to contact me via PM and I'll support you best I can, but my support is limited to listening and providing (Hopefully) helpful and encouraging responses.

 

Bottom line: This far and no further - in terms of actions you should take. Turning this into a public war is not going to be a good experience for either party, so let's keep things the way they are and make the best of it - whatever that may be.

 

 

 

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Can't wait to borrow my friend's car when mine is in the shop, and then sell it on the internet.

 

"Dude, you didn't tell me I couldn't sell it. It was free money!" 

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1 minute ago, Scribble said:

Can't wait to borrow my friend's car when mine is in the shop, and then sell it on the internet.

 

"Dude, you didn't tell me I couldn't sell it. It was free money!" 

 

This is exactly my thought on the issue. 

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Scribble said:

Can't wait to borrow my friend's car when mine is in the shop, and then sell it on the internet.

 

"Dude, you didn't tell me I couldn't sell it. It was free money!" 

that wouldnt be possible without the titles and what not

 

it would be considered stolen, and that guy would be jailed most likely

no???

 

now this, she gave him the 'titles' and 'what not' essentially with giving him the actual passwords and emails.

 

im just bored honestly, its 1:30 AM and I'm watching someone play the new MLB

Edited by Oreo
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If this is considered "legal" everyone will start doing it, essentially a can of worms. Every pvper should probably change there passwords now.

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1 minute ago, Niki said:

If this is considered "legal" everyone will start doing it, essentially a can of worms. Every pvper should probably change there passwords now.

Well, Wurm has covered itself by saying 'share passwords at your own risk'..

Also, people sharing accounts uh.. use hashes (usually)which I do hear aren't that hard to crack, but you don't just share the hash out of nowhere to anyone, and even then they still need the email for that account, and then the password for that email.

 

Am I condoning this?

Nah maaaan, I'm just bored watching some guy suck at the new MLB and get drafted in the 3rd Round.

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5 minutes ago, Niki said:

If this is considered "legal" everyone will start doing it, essentially a can of worms. Every pvper should probably change there passwords now.

 

"This one guy betrayed his friend, lets all do the same guys!!" 

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2 hours ago, MaurizioAM said:

Eva you have never tried to contact me in facebook, shall i contact facebook and have them get me the proof to that? Do you want to really look like a liar about this?

Have you tried contact here on facebook when you were about to sell of accounts? You said you even have eachothers phone numbers. As far as I know she always supported you and even trusted you her acoounts. Really, have you tried to reach here letting here know you were about to sell her out? Have you offered to pay her off after transaction is done?

 

Why are Shagses so loud? You bought Eva's accounts?

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Yeah, bottom line is I'm grateful for this Name and Shame post because I know now not to do business with this player due to this really... Sketchy situation. So thank you for posting!

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Posted (edited)

This whole situation is very messy.  Moral and rule implications aside, any player considering joining the ebon kingdom before is sure to reconsider now.  Normally you would expect a kingdom to welcome a returning player with open arms and encourage them to stay, not shut them out.  How can you trust a kingdom in a battle with Drakes and other valuables on the line if they're willing to sell your account off for a quick buck? 

Edited by Toma

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Inb4 thread closed.

What did I miss ? Wurm drama you say ? Never heard of it.

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1 hour ago, rixk said:

Honestly.. what kind of person sells friends account? Even if my friends would tell me, that they quit and gave me password, I would hold on to the account in the hopes, that they will return eventually.. But to sell a friends account for few quick silvers at the expense of someone I care about(no matter what they say).. I don't know...

 

What the man said!

 

I have access to a dozens or so of friends accounts, which made it clear they were leaving the game and should be free to use the accounts in any ways i see fit. I do not see fit to strip them of their valuables (rares, supremes, cash) or sell them. If I ever was to pay prem on them to use them at the maximum of their capacities, that would be on my own money and I wouldn't try to recover cash by selling it. As mentionned above, friends accounts, even if they left, I'd be glad to see them jump back on wurm to say hello and/or start playing for a bit.

 

When it comes to time spent and shared accounts by multiple persons / kingdom. You might want to create a new toon for that or buy one without anything shaddy coming to bite you back. Can't really say then, we worked on your account, so it's no longuer yours, when it was dedicated for that purpose from the start. Not like i never see drama coming from doing that anyway, specially if some players spend a lot of time grinding skills on said account to be expelled from kingdom/alliance/whatever.

 

And bottom line of that thread. I don't know who is right or wrong. Mudslinging from various parties will go nowhere for sure. Trust was broken that's one thing. But the worse part imho is the : "since you call me a thief, you will have ######"... is that a mature way to deal with things or a grade school one?

 

TL;DR. Welcome to WurmOnline. Do not trust anyone with your valuables. And IF someone do trust you enough to give you / lend you for an extended period of time their accounts, by respect for them, never ever sell them and cherish the though they had faith in you.

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If I trust someone enough to share access with them I just share my password, many years ago a player reported to Rolf after cracking the encryption  and exposed its vulnerabilities. He just ignored it, since then many people have been able to "crack" hashes some tools to do so were shared around publicly iirc.

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As an aside to this thread, if you try and send messages to people on Facebook, whom you are not 'Friends' with, it sometimes actually diverts your messages into a little 'side folder' on Facebook referred to as 'Message Requests' (Click to open your messages drop-down, there's Recent and then 'Message Requests' next to it.), and doesn't inform said individual about the message being received.

I actually found a message in mine from someone I removed years ago, and it had never even told me the person messaged me, and simply diverted it without telling me, I found it like 2+ years later and was like 'Oh, interesting.'

 

Not all communications systems are 'effective' for getting the communication you want across. So it may just have been that the messages were being received but not actually being viewed/informed of.

Regardless, when you trust another person with your account information, it isn't 'safe' anymore and there are no expectation's to be had involving the account. Especially on a game where the rules clearly state that if you share account info you're out of luck.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Niki said:

If this is considered "legal" everyone will start doing it, essentially a can of worms. Every pvper should probably change there passwords now.

 

This has a very simple workaround, one that will make it impossible for a friend to steal your account or your assets without resorting to hacking and/or other banable means. I know it sounds like a very sketchy way to conduct business, but I personally believe it's the best mechanism against account theft and misuse. It is very controversial so I am going to put it in spoilers so those who don't want to read it can easily avoid it 

 

 

Don't share your accounts.

 

Hope this helps!

Edited by Angelklaine
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Posted (edited)

To me personally the most important part is whether the account was lent or given. How is an account any different than a really valuable item, especially in a game where they are sold all the time? You could say you are emotionally attached to an account but you could also say the same for a deed or a pickaxe.

 

When you lend your pickaxe (lets say fantastic pickaxe) to someone, you have %100 expectation that it is returned to you later and the other person is supposed to be %100 aware he is supposed to return it to you later. Sure it could be considered stupid to lend your fantastic pickaxe but most things in this game is based on trust. Even if you asked another person to ask for your fantastic pickaxe in your stead, the person who borrowed it should still give the fantastic pickaxe he borrowed. If you ask.... lets say 10 people to get your borrowed pickaxe for you without you ever contacting the person who borrowed it, you should still be able to get your pickaxe back and the person who borrowed your pickaxe should be able to tell everyone what a joy it is to borrow anything from you on the forums (while probably not going to get much support and is mostly going to be laughed at since it is okay for people to drag your image through the mud because people usually dont expect it to be done to them) or anywhere else. If someone doesnt return something they borrowed, it is only natural that nobody should trust that person with anything. 

 

When you give your pickaxe as a gift to someone, then you dont expect to ever have it returned and the person who received doesnt think you expect to  have it returned either. That is why it is a gift. When you receive that pickaxe, put some nice runes on it, slap a 100 imbue on it, get it imped to 99ql etc. you do all these while you are certain that the pickaxe now belongs to you. If I started contacting all the people who I gave a gift to and asked for all the gifts back, I dont know if every person would give the gifts back but I do know that every person would think much less of me to say the least and know that none of them would be obliged in any way to return the gift. Do we ever go and say "Oh this -beep- faced piece of -beep- didnt return the pickaxe his friend gave him as a gift a year ago!"?  

 

Now if I wanted something back which I gave as a gift to someone and instead of contacting the person, I told everyone about it, ask people to contact the person in my stead, got the GMs involved and when that failed I went on the forums and name and shamed the person saying I gave it as a gift but I want it back now, I guess I wouldnt get much support. The most positive comments would be from those who just laugh at me. But what if I did all that but instead said the person borrowed it from me..... that turns everything around for me doesnt it? 

 

Now if I let the person borrow the pickaxe, contact the person personally on anywhere I could.... stating that I wanted my pickaxe back on my messages, got no response, tried to have other people to contact him to no avail, got GMs involved and failed, started a name and shame topic, I would at least post a picture of my message/messages to the person with the date, state in my first post that it was borrowed and not given back and the person who borrowed is not responding me anywhere and geting other players and then GMs involved didnt help either. 

 

When you think it is better to write things like "my characters were stolen", "I was a trusted member and a champion" than actually writing the conversations that took place (if you dont have any documentation of them, then at least as much as you can remember) while you gave the accounts, the ways you tried to contact the person who borrowed and what you wrote, that it was borrowed... it doesnt look good. It doesnt look good when you dont oppose the things the other person says to defend himself either. 

 

Edited by Simyaci
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