Horsch

Wurm Population Status Problem Solving.

119 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Toma said:

All those items above are purchasable by ingame currency as well.  For a game to be pay2win it must have an item/benefit that gives you an advantage over other players that is not accessible through ingame means.

 

 Ironically because of how freely wurm works with real world trading, not only do these items not exist, you could even argue that they can't exist because of how the game works.  Wurm is by definition "pay to not grind" except all you do in this game is grind, so its really "pay to grind in something else."

 

Despite having said all that, there is no way I would play this game if I wasn't willing to spend some RL money on it. It's far too easy for Wurm to become closer to a job than a game if one isn't careful...

 

MMO Champion - No, that's your definition. Pay to Win is literal. If paying helps you win or in other words gain any advantage against other players who don't pay real money by paying real money it is P2W.

 

Urban Dictionary -

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!

 

just a couple.  Some say it's paying for special items that can't be made, but most say it's paying for things to get ahead of others that don't pay.  So WurmOnline is Pay to win and pay to play because they allow players to sell things for real life money and because they charge a monthly price to play the game.  Case solved.

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Posted (edited)

On 3/4/2017 at 0:31 PM, Zekezor said:

Wurm is already p2w. Anyone believing diffrently is disillusioned. Especially in pvp but also pve.

Priest alts, deeds, sleep powder,  a tradeable ingame premium currency which people trade for ingame items and accounts (50% of deed upkeeps goes to traders, rare coins etc, its never unpaid). 

Not calling this game a p2w is just an outright lie.

Wurm is p2w

 

You dont know what pay to win means.

What you are actually trying to say, is that the price of the game subscription to have full capabilities is rather steep, wich I agree. But you are misusing the term.

 

Edit: P2W, would be, for example, buying a weapon or armour that gives you an observable advantage, and that can only be purchased at the game shop and has no means to be obtained playing the game (loot being an exception).

Edited by Rathgar
P2W definition:

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Rathgar said:

Edit: P2W, would be, for example, buying a weapon or armour that gives you an observable advantage, and that can only be purchased at the game shop and has no means to be obtained playing the game (loot being an exception).

You mean like res stones which takes away your loss and the enemys rightfully gained loot?

yea. those excist.

a 50 guard size 500 deed is hard as ###### to raid and helps a lot in security. Another clear observable advantage.

Farwalker stones that teleports you to locations you set (which can be used to instantly reinforce any deed on the map or ambush a ton of locations if you got enough. another tremendous advantage.

Sleep bonus that literally gets you double leveling progression. Another clear tremendous advantage in this number based game.

 

It's you who don't understand P2W.

Edited by Zekezor
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The counterargument here is that all players can forage/botanise/bury/sell for silver coins and thus buy these items.

 

The trouble is that it really isn't much of a counterargument since there is a clear and notable advantage given to players who sink lots of money into the in-game currency.  It's essentially on par with gold botting in other games, the only difference here is that wurm's devs make the sale.

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The devs have already said there is no plan to merge servers and we all know what happened when Rolph opened deed raiding to the whole game. As much as I would like to see more PvP in the game, efforts on changing what the devs have already decided on has about the same chance of affecting anything as a fart in the wind.

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Merging servers would not help with travel times anyway. If you know how to cross servers in an intelligent way, there is no faster travel as between small servers. Imagine someone from lets say Lormere Xanadu would want to visit someone from Glasshollow and the only way would be sailing around the server or travelling overland. No two deeds on small servers even from middle server to middle server of another one would need that high amount of travel time. 

 

So if you want fast travel times... live on small servers.

 

But It would help the community a lot to have global alliance chats!  

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18 hours ago, Zekezor said:

You mean like res stones which takes away your loss and the enemys rightfully gained loot?

yea. those excist.

a 50 guard size 500 deed is hard as ###### to raid and helps a lot in security. Another clear observable advantage.

Farwalker stones that teleports you to locations you set (which can be used to instantly reinforce any deed on the map or ambush a ton of locations if you got enough. another tremendous advantage.

Sleep bonus that literally gets you double leveling progression. Another clear tremendous advantage in this number based game.

 

It's you who don't understand P2W.

Those things you listed, would be P2W if they would be available only by game shop, where you need to put real cash.

 

If they can be optained by paying ingame currency, they are available to everyone.

 

In wurm, real cash just speed up the process.

 

It's Pay to win faster : P

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Wilczan said:

Those things you listed, would be P2W if they would be available only by game shop, where you need to put real cash.

 

If they can be optained by paying ingame currency, they are available to everyone.

 

In wurm, real cash just speed up the process.

 

It's Pay to win faster : P

Wrong. Kingdom coffers money (aka traders, animals, foraging etc) is from deeds of your Kingdom. (freedom is a Kingdom)

So without someone in your Kingdom paying, then you get nada.

P2w with leeching in short.

The spenders on a server give parts of deed Costs to others...

Edited by Zekezor

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More idiocy. Who cares.

 

Part of Rolf's vision or business model was the original subscription cost and that players supplemented the 'lower' premium cost with purchasing silver every month.

 

Pay2Win might be sort-of considered in Wurm, for pvp-only.  PVP in this game is cancer, and is given 'holistic treatment'.

 

 

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On 4/6/2017 at 7:00 PM, Shazaam said:

More idiocy. Who cares.

 

Part of Rolf's vision or business model was the original subscription cost and that players supplemented the 'lower' premium cost with purchasing silver every month.

 

Pay2Win might be sort-of considered in Wurm, for pvp-only.  PVP in this game is cancer, and is given 'holistic treatment'.

 

 

 

Does Rolf still run the game? o.0

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On 5/4/2017 at 1:03 PM, Zekezor said:

You mean like res stones which takes away your loss and the enemys rightfully gained loot?

yea. those excist.

a 50 guard size 500 deed is hard as ###### to raid and helps a lot in security. Another clear observable advantage.

Farwalker stones that teleports you to locations you set (which can be used to instantly reinforce any deed on the map or ambush a ton of locations if you got enough. another tremendous advantage.

Sleep bonus that literally gets you double leveling progression. Another clear tremendous advantage in this number based game.

 

It's you who don't understand P2W.

 

Farwalkers, I dont know how they got into the game, I was under the impression that you could not get them anymore.
Because Wurms currency has a RL money equivalent, its difficult to draw the line, a 50 guard deed... Ill consider it P2W, even if you could get funds for it ingame, that money is still RL money that has been poured into the game at some point.

Having the infrastructure to aquire endgame equipment and such, is not Pay to Win, even if you buy your character already skilled, and you buy all its gear from other players, its still NOT pay to win, because you could aquire all that on your own without paying for anything other than (incredibly steep) premium.  It would be incredibly slower, but nothing is preventing you from doing it yourself.
And being able to do it yourself is what makes the difference, if you or anyone can craft it, train it, build it, its NOT pay to win.  If it can only be aquired from the shop and it gives a clear advantage, its pay to win.

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39 minutes ago, Rathgar said:

 

Having the infrastructure to aquire endgame equipment and such, is not Pay to Win, even if you buy your character already skilled, and you buy all its gear from other players, its still NOT pay to win, because you could aquire all that on your own without paying for anything other than (incredibly steep) premium.  It would be incredibly slower, but nothing is preventing you from doing it yourself.

 

You just gave the exact definition of p2w.  "It's extremely slow if you do it in game, or you just spit out some cash to have it instantly."

 

 

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On 10/4/2017 at 9:12 AM, Mordraug said:

 

You just gave the exact definition of p2w.  "It's extremely slow if you do it in game, or you just spit out some cash to have it instantly."

 

 

No, as a matter of fact I think I made a clear distinction between things that can and cant be obtained via ingame means, versus things that can only be aquired through an off-game shop.

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5 hours ago, Rathgar said:

No, as a matter of fact I think I made a clear distinction between things that can and cant be obtained via ingame means, versus things that can only be aquired through an off-game shop.

 

hummm, well, if those said items can be purchased by an off-game shop, then traded in game, according to your definition, then those items are no longer pay to win if they can be obtained by other players through trade/sale.  so, that's not pay to win either.

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On 4/10/2017 at 1:31 PM, Rathgar said:

 

Farwalkers, I dont know how they got into the game, I was under the impression that you could not get them anymore.
Because Wurms currency has a RL money equivalent, its difficult to draw the line, a 50 guard deed... Ill consider it P2W, even if you could get funds for it ingame, that money is still RL money that has been poured into the game at some point.

Having the infrastructure to aquire endgame equipment and such, is not Pay to Win, even if you buy your character already skilled, and you buy all its gear from other players, its still NOT pay to win, because you could aquire all that on your own without paying for anything other than (incredibly steep) premium.  It would be incredibly slower, but nothing is preventing you from doing it yourself.
And being able to do it yourself is what makes the difference, if you or anyone can craft it, train it, build it, its NOT pay to win.  If it can only be aquired from the shop and it gives a clear advantage, its pay to win.

 

pretty much according to this definition, wurm could implement selling of off-game shop items, and it wouldn't be pay to win then.  because if 10-20 guards for a deed isn't P2W for you, then paying 10 euro for anything out of game, that you can lose in-game isn't P2W either. Good game. You lost this one.

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Win? How do you 'win' Wurm? There is no ultimate goal, no end that I can think of. You can set goals for your own satisfaction and be happy to reach them, that's about it.

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Posted (edited)

What kills atleast the pvp pop that I've known of is the unbalanced endgame for pvpers and the absolute misery of a situation without accounts and gear that great effort or money have gone into. It started years ago with champions. At first there was very few, as perma death sucked. Then as the apparent power of champs became noticeable an arms race started with more and more people undertaking the decision to be a champion as there was no greater source of strength. 

 

That got fixed so the players wouldn't literally wipe themselves out. Then epic was released. Uniques started respawning frequently on all servers and get farmed for loot. Then tomes. Before all this there was meditation which added SOTG which is ######. Rares came out. Shield gains got (((adjusted))). Being top tier competitive in pvp has a minimum time barrier of the wait time for sotg and meditation ticks. You need literally +95 fight skill and +90 in multiple weapons and your shield. Your body stats are perhaps thr least urgent of your skills but cant be overlooked. Less than 50 body and you suck. You NEED enough body control for a hell horse plus high taming. Have fun grinding that, and your meditation. And your fighting stats. And faith if you ever want to have a useful group, aka choose a meta faith (smegain lmfao).  You then are pretty much crap unless you're kitted out with high quality dragon armors and moon metal helmets and weapons. Rares give you an extra edge expect your enemies to take advantage of that. Same goes for boats (plus the hot new rune cancer).  Plus tomes from your kingdom for stoneskin/truestrike (ignore 3 hits/100% crit chance better have 90 huge axe idiot) if you aren't that then you better learn to cheese as hard as physically possible in ways other people are too well endowed to care for or else the game isn't worth playing on pvp and you might as well go live on freedom/quit.

 

I know loads of people who refuse to play the game for this reason. They do not want to spend months grinding 90 different things and still be crap (or barely on par) or dump actually hundreds of dollars into this game just to get an account that can be good with the right gear. Chaos hovers in the mid 40s to 50s on a good day, if they fixed the pvp to not have such a stupid barrier to entry and minimum gear requirement without intense luck and game play cheese abilities I could see that spot amount increasing by 2.5x the current with total pvp premium accounts probably 3x or more.

Edited by salahahdin
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tldr -1

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