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Horsch

Wurm Population Status Problem Solving.

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Alright: PvE, never intend to ever PvP

 

I'll leave a thought here that hasn't been chewed over much, returning to wurm and getting old players back.  People get bored of games and move on, then they get a craving and want something familiar.

 

Upon returning to wurm after a long hiatus one usually finds that:

  • Their home (that thing they sank days and a small fortune into) is gone
  • Everything they left in their home is gone; animals/tools/even food XD
  • They're non-premium again (as is the small army of alts they needed to play the game in full)
  • They're probably not in a good position if they lived somewhere remote

This means that re-entry into wurm is not as easy as with other mmorpgs (where everything was as you left it) and this could be seen as discouraging to long term non-committed retention.

 

Some potential solutions to this are:

  • A couple of days of free premium on return after a hiatus if a person has been premium before; 1 day per 2 months away up to a maximum of 3 doesn't seem unreasonable.  To avoid exploitation only allow free premium to occur after a purchase, so if you have had 3 days of free premium you can't just wait another 6 months to get another 3, you will need to buy a subscription again.  It's just enough for someone to get back on their feet if they want to return, but not enough to break the system.
  • Free teleport to a starter town (PvE only) after 2+ months hiatus.  This is really just something handy in case you find yourself in a ditch or area that is hard/impossible to leave.
  • E-mail warnings for deed expiration (1 month warning, 1 week warning), helps prevent the problem for players who do want to look after their things long term.
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$$$.

 

I played Wurm for years, I love Wurm, but it's a horrible game. Bugs, exploits, windows of opportunities, bad features, crashes, lag. It's not at all up to par with a standard MMORPG. Graphically it's not even close either. That's okay though. The game doesn't have to be perfect, just playable. You can manage to do a lot in the game that you can't do in other games, and although it may not look as pretty or run as smoothly players often love the uniqueness of the game. However, the price tag on this game for a monthly subscriptions really isn't worth it. Don't get me wrong, I have a full-time job and benefits, my issue isn't being able to have the funds it's about not feeling that it's worth it, and the paid model excludes a lot of players from joining up. 

 

8E/month? That's about $8.50/mo. World of Warcraft is $14.99/mo. Honestly I can't even think of another game that even uses this old model anymore. The monthly subscription model is honestly dated, even Besetha has moved on:

 

http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/21/7865919/the-elder-scrolls-online-release-date-ps4-xbox-one-subscription-free-tamriel-unlimited 

 

Also Wildstar:

 

 http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-05-28-wildstar-is-going-free-to-play-heres-all-you-need-to-know/ 

 

So many MMORPGs have done away with that model. Really this is an extremely outdated business model that I really can't understand the idea of. Why are we still using this business model? Aside from World of Warcraft I don't think any other games still use this business model except for Wurm Online, and the rest really have moved onto micro transactions and larger initial purchases. I think Rolf is a great visionary person, but I don't understand a lot of the business choices that are ongoing. The great appeal to Wurm back in the day, at least when it first began, was that it was a cheap crappy MMORPG to have fun on. For those that do not know, this was the increase and changed that occured in 2013, "New price for premium will be 8 Euro per month instead of the previous 5 Euro for 5 Silver coins, 16 Euro for 2 months premium or 10 silver coins." In my opinion this game, quality, and staff team is probably a good $5/mo. That's respectable.

 

I think really just the subscription turns people off. The free to play is so limited, and the perks really aren't great.

 

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41 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Alright: PvE, never intend to ever PvP

 

I'll leave a thought here that hasn't been chewed over much, returning to wurm and getting old players back.  People get bored of games and move on, then they get a craving and want something familiar.

 

Upon returning to wurm after a long hiatus one usually finds that:

  • Their home (that thing they sank days and a small fortune into) is gone
  • Everything they left in their home is gone; animals/tools/even food XD
  • They're non-premium again (as is the small army of alts they needed to play the game in full)
  • They're probably not in a good position if they lived somewhere remote

This means that re-entry into wurm is not as easy as with other mmorpgs (where everything was as you left it) and this could be seen as discouraging to long term non-committed retention.

 

Some potential solutions to this are:

  • A couple of days of free premium on return after a hiatus if a person has been premium before; 1 day per 2 months away up to a maximum of 3 doesn't seem unreasonable.  To avoid exploitation only allow free premium to occur after a purchase, so if you have had 3 days of free premium you can't just wait another 6 months to get another 3, you will need to buy a subscription again.  It's just enough for someone to get back on their feet if they want to return, but not enough to break the system.
  • Free teleport to a starter town (PvE only) after 2+ months hiatus.  This is really just something handy in case you find yourself in a ditch or area that is hard/impossible to leave.
  • E-mail warnings for deed expiration (1 month warning, 1 week warning), helps prevent the problem for players who do want to look after their things long term.

Some Good thoughts.  Most of these problems can be remedied by joining a village or alliance that would maybe look after your things if away along time.  But if servers were turned to PVP possibilities. Who would bother to log back in as you know someone would have just destroyed it all anyway. So that alone would keep people from returning.  You can see by the player counts on all the servers that PVE far outweighs the amount of total players on PVP.  There is a reason for that. THIS is the only game that has such a great PVE experience. We all know that because we all went looking when Rolf screwed up the first time. 

 

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1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

Alright: PvE, never intend to ever PvP

What's the point of having chaos on freedom cluster if that's the case?

1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

I'll leave a thought here that hasn't been chewed over much, returning to wurm and getting old players back.  People get bored of games and move on, then they get a craving and want something familiar.

That's true.  That's why I'm back.

1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

Upon returning to wurm after a long hiatus one usually finds that:

  • Their home (that thing they sank days and a small fortune into) is gone
  • Everything they left in their home is gone; animals/tools/even food XD
  • They're non-premium again (as is the small army of alts they needed to play the game in full)
  • They're probably not in a good position if they lived somewhere remote

This means that re-entry into wurm is not as easy as with other mmorpgs (where everything was as you left it) and this could be seen as discouraging to long term non-committed retention.

True.  But this wouldn't be as bad if there were some decent communities to assist other players.  It's the same way with new players, if they never seen another player in the game, I doubt they would stick around and continue playing.

1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

Some potential solutions to this are:

  • A couple of days of free premium on return after a hiatus if a person has been premium before; 1 day per 2 months away up to a maximum of 3 doesn't seem unreasonable.  To avoid exploitation only allow free premium to occur after a purchase, so if you have had 3 days of free premium you can't just wait another 6 months to get another 3, you will need to buy a subscription again.  It's just enough for someone to get back on their feet if they want to return, but not enough to break the system.

I always did like receiving those emails from other games I've played, offering a free week subscription to come back and try the game, and it also included a list of features that have recently been implemented or changes to the game.  I've probably used quite a few of these welcome back emails from games.

1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:
  • Free teleport to a starter town (PvE only) after 2+ months hiatus.  This is really just something handy in case you find yourself in a ditch or area that is hard/impossible to leave.

I like that.  Maybe also an unlimited amount of free teleports for accounts with less then 10 hours of game play to assist new players?

1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:
  • E-mail warnings for deed expiration (1 month warning, 1 week warning), helps prevent the problem for players who do want to look after their things long term.

I like that as well.  Maybe also notification of players requesting to join your deed to.

 

 

Edited by Horsch

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2 minutes ago, Postes said:

$$$.

 

I played Wurm for years, I love Wurm, but it's a horrible game. Bugs, exploits, windows of opportunities, bad features, crashes, lag. It's not at all up to par with a standard MMORPG. Graphically it's not even close either. That's okay though. The game doesn't have to be perfect, just playable. You can manage to do a lot in the game that you can't do in other games, and although it may not look as pretty or run as smoothly players often love the uniqueness of the game. However, the price tag on this game for a monthly subscriptions really isn't worth it. Don't get me wrong, I have a full-time job and benefits, my issue isn't being able to have the funds it's about not feeling that it's worth it, and the paid model excludes a lot of players from joining up. 

 

8E/month? That's about $8.50/mo. World of Warcraft is $14.99/mo. Honestly I can't even think of another game that even uses this old model anymore. The monthly subscription model is honestly dated, even Besetha has moved on:

 

http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/21/7865919/the-elder-scrolls-online-release-date-ps4-xbox-one-subscription-free-tamriel-unlimited 

 

Also Wildstar:

 

 http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-05-28-wildstar-is-going-free-to-play-heres-all-you-need-to-know/ 

 

So many MMORPGs have done away with that model. Really this is an extremely outdated business model that I really can't understand the idea of. Why are we still using this business model? Aside from World of Warcraft I don't think any other games still use this business model except for Wurm Online, and the rest really have moved onto micro transactions and larger initial purchases. I think Rolf is a great visionary person, but I don't understand a lot of the business choices that are ongoing. The great appeal to Wurm back in the day, at least when it first began, was that it was a cheap crappy MMORPG to have fun on. For those that do not know, this was the increase and changed that occured in 2013, "New price for premium will be 8 Euro per month instead of the previous 5 Euro for 5 Silver coins, 16 Euro for 2 months premium or 10 silver coins." In my opinion this game, quality, and staff team is probably a good $5/mo. That's respectable.

 

I think really just the subscription turns people off. The free to play is so limited, and the perks really aren't great.

 

This game also does not autosub you. Nice to no have to remeber to cancel.  it is a game you can have premium without paying a single real dollar. You work and earn in game money. So I really don't see  how these are bad things. 

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3 hours ago, geode said:

 

Since this thread IMO is just a fishing expedition, and some well known "fish" in Wurm have nibbled on the bait, I'll grab a bite....

 

1.)To change a server that was made to be and has been a PvE (non-PvP) server into a PvP server IS effectively "wiping the server" for most of the Players that played on that type of server exclusively. Even a server merge is still "wiping the server" because each of the servers would lose forever the unique character it held previously.

I agree. Changing a PVE server into a PVP server is effectively wiping the server.  It shouldn't be ever changed from a PVE to PVP.

3 hours ago, geode said:

2.) You assume that players once exposed to PvP will accept PvP and embrace it ... that has already been proved FALSE in Wurm ... those who would do so already have, the rest won't. You make the same flaw in judgement Rolf did when he turned on PvP Raiding on the old JK and MR Home servers years ago, and his wallet corrected his opinion on this false assumption. Rolf might have believed everyone thought as he thought about Wurm and gaming in general, but over and over again it's apparent that there is no one way to Wurm (no one way to play the game), but many ways, and all have some validity to each and should be accepted and respected. This is why I don't ask for all PvP in Wurm to be removed permanently (because I am against it 100% in all games), but rather I respect the opinions of others and accept how they wish to play the game for what it is... their free will choice. Since you Horsch (and others) wish there to be good PvP in Wurm than I support your desire for this and I will support it in polls here and discussions, but don't expect me to join the war gang and go raid a deed... and that is what you are asking me to do when you propose a merger of the PvE servers and alter them to make them PvP capable. Once a person realizes some will never accept their opinion or way of playing the game they also eventually realize the groups with the most differing opinions can not "play nice together" or share the same server, in this case the PvP crowd on one hand and the PvE/non-PvP on the other. This too has been born out in not just Wurm but in many online/mmo games.

Again, I don't recall mentioning making PVE servers into PVP ones and I agree that shouldn't be done, if I did then I'm sorry for the confusion.  I do believe I mentioned making PVP home servers have some safe areas that are non-PVP to encourage PVE players to join them.  I'm going to reread over all my posts to confirm though.

3 hours ago, geode said:

3.) In a game like Wurm, where Players can do every single skill AND run both a regular character and a priest... please tell me WHY Community is so important? Do we need each other In Wurm? Really? No. (We have access to every skill and there is no limit to how many skills each character can gain.) Do we need community on the PvE/non-PvP servers? No. (We just need customers if we are into buying and selling items/resources or into selling characters, and the wtb/wts/wta posts illustrate this.) Does PvP encourage community? Yes it does, but I as well as others play Wurm for it's creative side, not for it's destructive side.

I believe community is important because otherwise you wouldn't have a reason to build things in Wurm.  You wouldn't have a reason to want to kill other players, or raid them.  You wouldn't have any reason at all to go grind your skills.  I believe community is important because that's ultimately what drives every single player to play Wurm Online.  If it was just you playing, you'd be playing Wurm Unlimited on your own server, by yourself.  Simple as that.

 

You're right though, we do have access to every skill and there is no limit to how many skills each character can gain (besides obviously the max 100).  But community is what strives each one of us to improve our accounts or make uber cool items or even houses or deeds!  Someone in this thread mentioned that they used Wurm Unlimited to test how their house or deed would look, so they could build it in Wurm Online.  Not just for themselves, because that person just did it in Wurm Unlimited, that is for themselves, it was for the community!

 

 

3 hours ago, geode said:

The best mechanic to encourage community and cooperation with other players in online games almost always uses restrictions of player abilities and skills to promote such in a virtual world that lacks real life survival needs such as biting cold and thirst and real hunger and lack of shelter. Our characters have none of these considerations once they get "refresh". In a game, any game, there needs to be limits to what each individual character can do and there's not enough limits in Wurm to encourage community to be bluntly honest about it. Wurm discourages community because we can do too much.

Restriction of player abilities might increase cooperation, but not community and it differs between PVE and PVP servers too.  Yes, Wurm discourages community by how the standards are now on the servers.  I think because of the lopsided communities on the Epic cluster, is what discourages players to stay and play on the Epic cluster, or being apart of the losing side.  Freedom PVE servers seem to have alright sized populations, as far as where everyone is located, I have no clue though what those groups look like.

3 hours ago, geode said:

Can we fix this? Not in a gaming genre where players want their characters to be superheros and "do everything" types. Most MMOs have ruined their own gameplay and fun because they gave in to the players that want their characters to be able to do it all. Maybe if items/tools/weapons in the game wore out faster and enchant attempts were much more difficult and shatter percentage much higher... make it so the number of dedicated Weapons Smiths were far fewer than now, the number of leather Workers, etc.,... but it would come at a cost. If the Devs wanted to force players to join communities it would in fact cause as much departure from Wurm as forced PvP would because the player community that is here NOW is here because of how the game is designed. If Wurm was designed more to promote more community need (and I mean really need) and support then some players here now would be gone and others that tried Wurm would have stayed.

I think it can be fixed, it just takes in-depth questioning of players to discover the true nature of the beast.

3 hours ago, geode said:

Implementing your server alterations to enhance PvP and increase population would lose CodeClub customers, because their way of playing the game would come to an end. Not everyone wants to play Wurm Unlimited and so there would be profits lost. As I said above, that's not just my opinion, that has in fact been proven in Wurm over the course of the life of this online game. Any serious attempts to push or force players into PvP results in a few converts and many Players leaving the game.

I never mentioned ending any players way of playing the game.  I completely agree that if PVP servers were turned into PVE and or PVE servers turned into PVP, would end lots of players subscriptions.  It's not what they subscribed too.  But also at the same time, players have to realize, that games are meant to evolve and change and not by turning PVP into PVE or vise-versa, but change and evolve by adding new things, or completely changing things up to keep the game interesting like they just allowed all kingdoms the ability to be any player made god they want, right?  That's an amazing change, but at the same time, it completely removes restrictions of players having limitations to kingdom specific gods.  That was a much needed change in my opinion but also makes certain other gods obsolete.  That's where changes need to continue to occur, by making use of those obsolete things and making them useful again to keep things interesting and always evolving!

 

Edited by Horsch

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46 minutes ago, Postes said:

$$$.

 

I played Wurm for years, I love Wurm, but it's a horrible game. Bugs, exploits, windows of opportunities, bad features, crashes, lag. It's not at all up to par with a standard MMORPG. Graphically it's not even close either. That's okay though. The game doesn't have to be perfect, just playable. You can manage to do a lot in the game that you can't do in other games, and although it may not look as pretty or run as smoothly players often love the uniqueness of the game.

I agree.  That' why I play the game.

46 minutes ago, Postes said:

However, the price tag on this game for a monthly subscriptions really isn't worth it. Don't get me wrong, I have a full-time job and benefits, my issue isn't being able to have the funds it's about not feeling that it's worth it, and the paid model excludes a lot of players from joining up.

I agree on this as well.  I think the paid model for an outdated game does turn a lot of new players, and old players off from continuing to play or having multiple accounts with subscriptions.  Only people who don't care about their money don't mind it or people who don't mind paying for a game they really enjoy.

46 minutes ago, Postes said:

8E/month? That's about $8.50/mo. World of Warcraft is $14.99/mo. Honestly I can't even think of another game that even uses this old model anymore. The monthly subscription model is honestly dated, even Besetha has moved on:

 

http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/21/7865919/the-elder-scrolls-online-release-date-ps4-xbox-one-subscription-free-tamriel-unlimited 

 

Also Wildstar:

 

 http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-05-28-wildstar-is-going-free-to-play-heres-all-you-need-to-know/ 

 

So many MMORPGs have done away with that model. Really this is an extremely outdated business model that I really can't understand the idea of. Why are we still using this business model? Aside from World of Warcraft I don't think any other games still use this business model except for Wurm Online, and the rest really have moved onto micro transactions and larger initial purchases. I think Rolf is a great visionary person, but I don't understand a lot of the business choices that are ongoing. The great appeal to Wurm back in the day, at least when it first began, was that it was a cheap crappy MMORPG to have fun on. For those that do not know, this was the increase and changed that occured in 2013, "New price for premium will be 8 Euro per month instead of the previous 5 Euro for 5 Silver coins, 16 Euro for 2 months premium or 10 silver coins." In my opinion this game, quality, and staff team is probably a good $5/mo. That's respectable.

 

I think really just the subscription turns people off. The free to play is so limited, and the perks really aren't great.

 

Again, totally agree.  And I'm sure lots of other players agree as well, but what's your opinion on how to counter the paid model to continue to earn Wurm money to keep up with Server and support costs?  I've mentioned in the past to have a micro transaction store for such items like basic tools that are 90ql, or to enchant an item, or theres so many ways that players could support the game with micro transactions, it's ridiculous!  But the flip side to that is that those same PVE communities that earn a living in-game by crafting things and selling them or doing enchants are what pay their premium memberships and drives some of the communities on the freedom cluster.  How would that still be established if micro transactions were implemented?  It'd probably kill that huge community of craft/enchant>sell/trade.

 

You identified a big problem and an effective solution needs to be established that won't cause another big problem.  That seems to be the moto of Wurm is to solve one big problem and cause another big problem.  Things need to be well thought out and identified, and ran through scenarios before actually being done!  Removing the paid subscription without having a very effective solution that doesn't cause a big problem like loss of community even further, would surely destroy Wurm I think.

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Again, I'd like others to post on my opinions.  Make this a debate.  If you agree with others opinions in this thread or don't and why?  Share your thought process on these things.  Tell me you hate me and my ideas, and why you hate them.  I can take the criticism and if theirs good reasoning on your part, I'll even change my opinion if it makes sense.  Or maybe I'll change your opinion on the matter.  Until you share your perspective people won't know, and you won't know their perspective.

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The thread got to the point where it's about solving problems that would be caused by solving a problem that still might be imaginary.

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7 minutes ago, zigozag said:

The thread got to the point where it's about solving problems that would be caused by solving a problem that still might be imaginary.

I gave up when the OP suggested something along the lines of connecting the small PVE servers to Epic.

Epic was a mistake. It should have never been created.

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48 minutes ago, As_I_Decay said:

I gave up when the OP suggested something along the lines of connecting the small PVE servers to Epic.

Epic was a mistake. It should have never been created.

 

Where did I say connecting the small PVE servers to Epic?  I said merging some smaller PVE servers into a larger PVE server and merging the epic home servers into a larger server.  If you are confused about something I have said, please let me know where it is throughout the thread so I can elaborate on it.  Then Budda said they won't merge servers.  So that throws that merging of servers out the window.

Thank you! 

 

PS. Maybe you're right, Epic probably was a mistake.  How can that be corrected now though?

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1 hour ago, zigozag said:

The thread got to the point where it's about solving problems that would be caused by solving a problem that still might be imaginary.

 

So you're saying there is no problem with Wurm?  Or the problem with Wurm is imaginary?  Please elaborate.  Thank you!

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1 hour ago, Horsch said:

 

So you're saying there is no problem with Wurm?  Or the problem with Wurm is imaginary?  Please elaborate.  Thank you!

 

The solution is imaginary. No sense in solving problems based on your imaginary solution.

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Well right now I don't have a solution to any problems.  At least not one that is well thought out or would be the most effective, that's why opinions need to be gathered first.  That's the whole point of this thread, to figure out the problems and every persons opinion and what they think could resolve it.  A few people have posted their opinions, mostly against PVE servers becoming PVP and I guess that got mixed up in the original post being misunderstood by some who thought that was the point of the thread.  Joelle, what's your thoughts on the issues that plague Wurm and that cause little to no growth to the populations?

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Problems found by existing long term players are vastly different to actual problems new players find, and many feel their personal issues are the major issues wurm faces, which is fair enough, but also not the whole story.

 

When WU launched on steam, it gave us the ability to track reviews of WU purchasers, those who had never played Wurm took the the time to share why they did or didn't like it.

 

Now obviously graphics is one thing, but this is mostly misinterpreted due to the face the environment can be changed in any way shape or form, to have terrain that allows that it has to be somewhat basic, the new rendering engine also improves how light and shadows work, and goes a huge way towards improving the overall look, so we've got that going and have to accept it wont look like the latest call of duty.

 

Next up, confusing UI, not understanding how to do things or what things are for. The UI is very dated, and we all know this, this is why the focus is on introducing a new UI with a much more intuitive feel and more visual feedback than reading the event log while looking at lists. Of course this is wurm, and something so in depth will always require lots of information to read through, but there's a lot we can do to improve it there, so this is one of our key areas.

 

Thirdly, another big one is tutorial based, the games learning curve is huge, and many who stick with it find themselves loving the game, but it's a very high bar for entry, and thus we're working on a better tutorial system that bridges the gap between other MMOs and Wurm, getting those who like a little hand holding into the game better will also improve retention.

 

We've been explicitly clear that we will not be merging any servers, beyond the sheer headache of having to make sure any merging goes smoothly, you also face the fact you're removing the hard work of many players that lived on that server, and it does not mean server pop 1 + server pop 2 = 1+2, chances are you'll lose a huge amount in the merge and wind up with the same position.

 

 

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16 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Problems found by existing long term players are vastly different to actual problems new players find, and many feel their personal issues are the major issues wurm faces, which is fair enough, but also not the whole story.

 

When WU launched on steam, it gave us the ability to track reviews of WU purchasers, those who had never played Wurm took the the time to share why they did or didn't like it.

 

Now obviously graphics is one thing, but this is mostly misinterpreted due to the face the environment can be changed in any way shape or form, to have terrain that allows that it has to be somewhat basic, the new rendering engine also improves how light and shadows work, and goes a huge way towards improving the overall look, so we've got that going and have to accept it wont look like the latest call of duty.

That's good to hear!  Hopefully it's been being tested by the basic graphics cards such as Intel HD since a majority of computer users have that. 

16 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 

Next up, confusing UI, not understanding how to do things or what things are for. The UI is very dated, and we all know this, this is why the focus is on introducing a new UI with a much more intuitive feel and more visual feedback than reading the event log while looking at lists. Of course this is wurm, and something so in depth will always require lots of information to read through, but there's a lot we can do to improve it there, so this is one of our key areas.

Also very good news.  There's a lot of things we can do but it's multiple different menus.  Glad that is somehow being addressed.

16 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 

Thirdly, another big one is tutorial based, the games learning curve is huge, and many who stick with it find themselves loving the game, but it's a very high bar for entry, and thus we're working on a better tutorial system that bridges the gap between other MMOs and Wurm, getting those who like a little hand holding into the game better will also improve retention.

Awesome.  That learning curve is non existent, it's more of a sharp turn.  Hopefully there is a good method that this is fixed to attain and appeal to newer players without overwhelming them with figuring things out.  But also without overwhelming them with tutorials as well.

16 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 

We've been explicitly clear that we will not be merging any servers, beyond the sheer headache of having to make sure any merging goes smoothly, you also face the fact you're removing the hard work of many players that lived on that server, and it does not mean server pop 1 + server pop 2 = 1+2, chances are you'll lose a huge amount in the merge and wind up with the same position.

 I honestly didn't know it was previously mentioned that servers wont be merged.  And I know a lot of work would go into accomplishing a merge, but I didn't know it was an already discussed thing and the answer was put out there as a "no go".

 

Thanks for proving this info, even though I'm sure it's been mentioned previously somewhere else on the forums.  These things you mentioned seem to be things to help keep newer players to stay and play Wurm, which is a very much needed thing.  I guess the next step after that's accomplished is word of mouth and website spamming to spread the update of Wurm being redesigned and back in action?  We still have the matter of pvp servers on a pve cluster, and those pve'rs that don't want pvp and the pvp'ers that don't want pve. 

 

 

I still don't see why there is a PVP server on the freedom cluster, when the PVE'rs clearly don't want PVP.  But from what people say, the PVE'rs do want the PVP because they wanted the PVP server back on the freedom cluster.  Or was it that the players on that PVP server wanted back on the freedom cluster?  That what I don't understand about that situation.

 

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Separating PvP from pve for good is a horrible idea.. The beauty of chaos is the fact that you still have mobility options. Have a vacation home one or more of the pve servers and take part in the economy. Both chaos and freedom benefit from each other but not many really see that. 

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On 3/27/2017 at 5:00 PM, Horsch said:

I still don't see why there is a PVP server on the freedom cluster, when the PVE'rs clearly don't want PVP.  But from what people say, the PVE'rs do want the PVP because they wanted the PVP server back on the freedom cluster.  Or was it that the players on that PVP server wanted back on the freedom cluster?  That what I don't understand about that situation.

 

You don't understand because you draw a line between pvpers and pvers. That line is imaginary, falsely created by people who want nothing to do with the PvP aspects of the game and who think it does not bring anything to their game experience.

 

I encourage you to read up or watch videos about Bartle's Taxonomy. It will explain in detail why this line of thinking is flawed 

 

Pvpers and pvers are not different classes of people. They are the same: Wurm players. Pvpers do not exclusively participate in PvP: we don't login, kill each other, then log out. Sure, some do, but that's not what PvP is all about. 

 

As a player like any other, I get bored doing the same repetitive thing over and over again. So I PvP today. Tomorrow? I go build a castle. The day after? I spend the afternoon doing deliveries all over the different islands. The next day? I imp swords for skill and make materials for the economy. All these things are part of my playstyle and I'd be damned if I have my content reduced.

 

Separating Chaos from Freedom would mean that people like me would get divested from my Wurm experience. I wouldn't be able to participate in the freedom market or I would be forced to abandon my PvP. Why? Having a PvP island in the freedom cluster bothers no one, as it is your choice if you want to go to Chaos or not.

 

Don't cut out your content options. That's not a smart thing to do.

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On 3/26/2017 at 4:17 PM, Postes said:

$$$.

 

I played Wurm for years, I love Wurm, but it's a horrible game. Bugs, exploits, windows of opportunities, bad features, crashes, lag. It's not at all up to par with a standard MMORPG. Graphically it's not even close either. That's okay though. The game doesn't have to be perfect, just playable. You can manage to do a lot in the game that you can't do in other games, and although it may not look as pretty or run as smoothly players often love the uniqueness of the game. However, the price tag on this game for a monthly subscriptions really isn't worth it. Don't get me wrong, I have a full-time job and benefits, my issue isn't being able to have the funds it's about not feeling that it's worth it, and the paid model excludes a lot of players from joining up. 

 

8E/month? That's about $8.50/mo. World of Warcraft is $14.99/mo. Honestly I can't even think of another game that even uses this old model anymore. The monthly subscription model is honestly dated, even Besetha has moved on:

 

http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/21/7865919/the-elder-scrolls-online-release-date-ps4-xbox-one-subscription-free-tamriel-unlimited 

 

Also Wildstar:

 

 http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-05-28-wildstar-is-going-free-to-play-heres-all-you-need-to-know/ 

 

So many MMORPGs have done away with that model. Really this is an extremely outdated business model that I really can't understand the idea of. Why are we still using this business model? Aside from World of Warcraft I don't think any other games still use this business model except for Wurm Online, and the rest really have moved onto micro transactions and larger initial purchases. I think Rolf is a great visionary person, but I don't understand a lot of the business choices that are ongoing. The great appeal to Wurm back in the day, at least when it first began, was that it was a cheap crappy MMORPG to have fun on. For those that do not know, this was the increase and changed that occured in 2013, "New price for premium will be 8 Euro per month instead of the previous 5 Euro for 5 Silver coins, 16 Euro for 2 months premium or 10 silver coins." In my opinion this game, quality, and staff team is probably a good $5/mo. That's respectable.

 

I think really just the subscription turns people off. The free to play is so limited, and the perks really aren't great.

 

i agree

 

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9 hours ago, MaurizioAM said:

Both chaos and freedom benefit from each other but not many really see that. 

 

HIGHLY debatable.

 

Disconnect PvP from PvE, we'd have more uniques to kill, we'd have more customization suggestions go through without PvP demanding their exclusivity on shinies for profits, and we'd have less experienced deedbreakers whenever a permissions' bug shows up.

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free to play games also have premium currency which is ONLY purchaseable through them.

 

They rely on a minority who pays hand over fist for ingame cosmetics and whatever else is sold via their premium item shops and do not allow player to player sales of premium currency in order to be the only one profiting off it. They also become quite pay to win in the simple fact they need to continue to generate revenue and reasons for people to purchase things, some games outright sell high level character creation kits and damage boosts.

 

I'm fairly positive that removing a subscription fee and disallowing player sales of silver would be a bad move.

 

EDIT; NOT GOOD MOVE, BAD MOVE.

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Aye, if I remember right the standard F2P game relies on the 80/20 rule (or maybe even 90/10):

  • 80% of the players (the large majority) create only 20% of the revenue, by buying an occasional cosmetic item or a name change, but that's it. You can't keep the game running off these sales.
  • 20% of the players create 80% of the revenue however. That's the revenue that keeps the game running and pays the bills. That are players that buy damage boosts (triple damage potion anyone?), xp potions and powerful gear that is only available in the cash shop.

I don't think anyone wants Wurm to go down that path.

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

free to play games also have premium currency which is ONLY purchaseable through them.

 

They rely on a minority who pays hand over fist for ingame cosmetics and whatever else is sold via their premium item shops and do not allow player to player sales of premium currency in order to be the only one profiting off it. They also become quite pay to win in the simple fact they need to continue to generate revenue and reasons for people to purchase things, some games outright sell high level character creation kits and damage boosts.

 

I'm fairly positive that removing a subscription fee and disallowing player sales of silver would be a bad move.

 

EDIT; NOT GOOD MOVE, BAD MOVE.

 Believe some players want a better selection in Wurm's  premium item shop which seems dated with just

--------------Trader itemshop items----------------------------

farwalker stones

farwalker twigs

large magical chests

personal merchant contract

resurrection stones

Rods of Transmutation

shaker orbs

sleep powders

small magical chests

steel and flints

trader contract

tuning forks of metal detection

Edited by enoofu
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