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Attenia

Notification for 'stopped caring for'

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There's been some discussion recently over whether it should be possible to override a caring for if you've adopted an animal that someone else is caring for. There are valid points both for and against this, but what may be a simpler solution than changing the caring for programming is to send out notifications. Wurm already has a function where it can send you an email when your premium time is about to expire. What if we made it an option to sign up for an email notification if someone else stops caring for a branded animal you have on your deed? They you wouldn't override anyone else's caring for, but you'd still have the opportunity to log on and care for it yourself if you don't want it to die.

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Um i dont see the point when i care for it its stays that way till i stop or it dies? why is there a need to change it?

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A venerable animal that becomes uncared for may well die before you see that mail.

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Should've posted this in that suggestion thread, because alone this makes no sense as you can only stop caring for an animal manually.

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As Cecci said, if 'caring for' is last one thing, what keeps that animal alive, after 'stop care' it is question of seconds or minutes, till there will be corpse ready for butcher.

Dunno, why you need email with information, one more body on your deed could be butchered :P

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If you have an animal cared for someone else, you can't wipe that person's care for and put it onto a char of your own (which you control).  In effect it is still under the caring for "control" of the other person.  The suggestion is probably that you could wipe the caring for by another person if you brand it, although that would take a lot of reprogramming.

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Yeah the original suggestion was for wiping caring for, but my idea is that if you have an animal cared for by someone else, you get a notification if they stop caring for it so that you can then care for it before it dies. You may not see the mail before it dies, but it at least gives you more of a chance. As far as I'm aware, currently the only way you'd know if someone stopped caring for an animal on your deed is if you happen to examine it just after they stop caring for it, and I don't think the chances of that are very high.

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Waking up this thread.

 

 

It is frustrating when a previously cared for venerable animal dies because the original carer remotely 'stops caring for' the animal without announcement.

 

Common courtesy dictates that they should try to find out who has the animal to warn them if they are planning to stop caring for it, but unfortunately the urgent need to care for a new animal is often the overriding concern.

 

 

As stated in posts above, even if we take every step to notify the keeper, often the message takes so long to reach them, that it's over and done and the animal is already dead when they go to check.

 

 

 

One idea for a solution would be to implement a back-up cared for system.  Each animal has a linked list of carers instead of just one carer -

 

 

How this would work:

 

The original carer would care for the animal - they are the primary carer, and examining the animal shows that it is cared for by them. 

 

Each subsequent carer is added to the animal's 'carers' linked list.   Say the first carer cares for the animal using #1 (themselves) in 1st position and #2 (an alt) which is added to the linked list in the 2nd position.

 

On examining the animal a new keeper would see that the animal is cared for by #1 the original carer, but the description doesn't have to mention #2 the alt. 

 

The keeper then decides not to leave things to chance, and cares for the animal - and their name is appended to the list (#3) - they know they have agreed to care for it, because the animal shows in their list when they type /caringfor.

 

If the first carer #1 ever stops caring for the animal, the alt #2 becomes the new carer, and if the alt #2 then stops caring for the animal as well, then the new keeper #3 eventually becomes the primary carer. 

 

In this way, everybody who has an interest in the animal can ensure they are doing their part to protect it.  They know that if no-one else cares for the animal they will take over as primary carer.

 

 

There is currently a limit to the total number of animals that may be cared for by each player.  One argument is to keep the primary /caring for list separate from the animals which a player has agreed to be a backup carer.

 

In my opinion it would be best for each player to keep just a single /caringfor list - to include animals for which we are the primary carer as well as those for which we are the backup carer.

 

This is because during the animals' lives they will move from backup care to primary care, and we need to know we have enough total cared-for slots to deal with a situation where all our backup care animals fall into our primary care. 

 

 

I think this is something which could be implemented in WU using a LinkedList data structure assigned to each animal, with the nodes of the list representing players agreeing to care for the animal. 

 

It would allow any carer anywhere in the list to drop out (stop caring) and the player node could easily be removed from the list, whilst maintaining the remaining list of carers in the same order.

 

It would be up to the devs to determine the maximum number of nodes (carers) they would allow per list (animal), and also how best to handle player requests to agree to care for more animals than are allowed per player.

 

 

This is just one idea, I am sure there are many.  I feel something should be done to help out all the 'caring' players out there who would gladly care even more - given the opportunity.

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-1

 

Animals live long enough to replace themselves with offspring. If you care for it yourself it will live, usually, a ridiculously long time. 

 

If if you have an animal that is cared for by someone else you should either take steps to correct that, or be prepared for it to lose its status at a moments notice.

 

-100 to the idea that emailing us about an animals cared for status is somehow helpful. That is taking the game backwards. Game mechanics should NOT use email correspondence to communicate to you. 

 

 

 

**edit** I’ll +1 a mayor being able to remove cared for status on a branded animal though. Then it can be cared for by someone new, or die, but I’d support giving the mayor (or citizens with permissions) more control over the branded (officially owned) animals. 

Edited by Xor

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10 minutes ago, Xor said:

Animals live long enough to replace themselves with offspring.

Yes, but not all animals can reproduce their conditions. I had a male slow dog that died (cared for by someone else, so I assume they uncared for it), and males can't pass on conditions, so I was never able to breed more of them. GM spawns with special names can't produce animals with the same names either.

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20 minutes ago, Attenia said:

Yes, but not all animals can reproduce their conditions. I had a male slow dog that died (cared for by someone else, so I assume they uncared for it), and males can't pass on conditions, so I was never able to breed more of them. GM spawns with special names can't produce animals with the same names either.

Why can’t you contact the player who is already caring for those animals when you find them to take in? If you’ve traded for / purchased them shouldn’t you have adjusted the care for issue then, or in a case of forgetting soon after the deal was done?

 

if you found them wandering, Who is to say the carer isn’t looking for them? If you are unable to talk to them because they’re no longer playing or they don’t want to stop caring for the animal that’s the issue you take on with that animal which has either been lost and not returned by you or abandoned by someone who has quit, at which point the animal is left abandoned like all the previous owners carts, ships, and wagons. . But at least with animals you get to make use of them for a time. 

 

I cant think of a scenario where you have an animal cared for by someone else where you can’t contact them and get it resolved.

 

If it’s a situation of trading caring between servers.. that’s a risk you take also. They don’t need to adjust game mechanics for people working a system that is already pretty generous. 

 

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1 hour ago, Xor said:

I cant think of a scenario where you have an animal cared for by someone else where you can’t contact them and get it resolved.

A player without a forum account stops playing. Their deed disbands and you take their animals. They no longer play, so you cannot message them ingame, and you can't contact them on the forums because they don't have an account. Or they do have a forum account, but they stop checking the forums when they stop playing.

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16 minutes ago, Attenia said:

A player without a forum account stops playing. Their deed disbands and you take their animals. They no longer play, so you cannot message them ingame, and you can't contact them on the forums because they don't have an account. Or they do have a forum account, but they stop checking the forums when they stop playing.

And if you’re taking over animals on a disbanded deed you’ll understand the risks of the ones that are cared for by a character name you’re unable to identify on the forums or locate in game to communicate with. And if they’ve stopped playing chances are that animal is going to be cared for indefinitely. 

 

I think it’s easier just to chalk it up as a chance RNG death and be done with it. I’ve heard of cared for animals surviving literal RL years. That is completely unnecessary so if the suggestion is to alter the game to make that easier to protect, I’ll stand by the -1

 

IMO it’s sort of like finding an abandoned unlocked large cart and being upset when the original owner returns to the game and reclaims their cart. Except you’ll have been able to breed the animal on the mean time. 

 

I guess it matters for those with zoo type deeds or aspirations, but even then, don’t take in an already cared for animal and expect it to be around as long as those you can personally care for. 

 

Im still on board with allowing deed owners to remove the cared for status of the deeds branded animals though, which I think would solve this issue anyway in the most direct way. 

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To be honest, this is not a code issue, this is a player issue and doesn't need code support. Emails for an animal being uncared for? That sounds really really over the top when we don't even get a warning when your deed is about to disband.

 

Rather just make sure you don't own animals that have care slots you cannot control. If you purchase an animal, ask the seller to open the care slot. If they cannot do that, then it really wasn't their animal to begin with so it's buyer beware. If you find an animal thats cared for, it really was someone elses animal to begin with - if you insist on taking it, then be ready that it may be uncared for one day. If you are confident that they legit quit the game altogether and that is the reason you want to take their animals for yourself, then you have no worries about them stop caring. So you're basically saying " I think this guy quit and I want to take his animals, but I'm afraid he might come back and I will lose the animals" - If he does come back, you should worry about having taken his animals and try to return them.

 

 

Allowing to remove a care slot by branding screws over new players who may not be able to purchase a deed and have some horses they cared for - they cannot brand them and a random person can come by, take them, and remove all ownership. Care for lets you locate an animal through the manage animals windows so you could completely remove their ability to find their pet back, all in all this whole thing just seems to be to make it easier to take animals that aren't really yours.

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