Name Changing - Why or why not?

[SmeJack 5,798]

• Believe it or not some people don't actually like killing noobs.
• Using the term 'metagaming' does not apply in this situation and only serves as a buzzword to attempt to discredit someone's point of view.
• One name every six months spread over many people could still be problematic.
• I didn't say no to the idea, I provided a con for your alleged discussion.

 

If you search the old threads that you didn't want to read you will see many ideas (still valid) from many players (still playing) that would help negate the con. I can start some of the leg work for you since people get tired of repeating themselves in countless repeat threads:

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/89313-should-we-make-player-name-change-available-for-a-fee/

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/103637-character-name-change/

 

[Angelklaine 4,266]

14 hours ago, SmeJack said:

• Believe it or not some people don't actually like killing noobs.
• Using the term 'metagaming' does not apply in this situation and only serves as a buzzword to attempt to discredit someone's point of view.
• One name every six months spread over many people could still be problematic.
• I didn't say no to the idea, I provided a con for your alleged discussion.

 

If you search the old threads that you didn't want to read you will see many ideas (still valid) from many players (still playing) that would help negate the con. I can start some of the leg work for you since people get tired of repeating themselves in countless repeat threads:

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/89313-should-we-make-player-name-change-available-for-a-fee/

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/103637-character-name-change/

 

I understand, and that's fine, I am not trying to discredit you. I am simply disagree and stating the reasons why.

 

I am not trying to change anything or request this service to be added. If I did it would be on the suggestion sections. The purpose of this thread is to gauge the current feeling of the player base at this moment regarding the topic and their ideas and opinions on the matter. Regardless of how much it bothers you to see an old thread repeated, please understand this is a forum, and the sole purpose of this thread is entertainment. It is players choice to participate in it.

 

 

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

20 hours ago, Niki said:

sounds like you want to deny the other 98% of the player base that wants name changes.

Speak for yourself and don't make up unrealistic percentages. I'm a PVE player and I don't want name changes, I think account selling could be done away with too. Also sick of half of the people around here creating a different forum name every other week.

I like to be aware of who the dirtbags of the community are, just like in real life... so that I can avoid them. All of this identity shifting/hiding stuff only throws a wrench in the spoke of trying to protect oneself. 

And, as far as i'm concerned, most of the people interested in name changes are dirtbags. trying to hide their identity. It's a very small percentage that chose a name that they now do not like.

[Reylaark 1,100]

22 hours ago, SmeJack said:

Spoiler

Knowing your enemy is part of pvp situational awareness, name changes would open a door for surprise slaughters and no one likes constantly dying thats not fun unless you stood some chance. Changing names removes knowing that chance and potentially killing pvp further if people resort to only rolling in zergs.

 

•  

Spoiler

 

• Believe it or not some people don't actually like killing noobs.
• Using the term 'metagaming' does not apply in this situation and only serves as a buzzword to attempt to discredit someone's point of view.
• One name every six months spread over many people could still be problematic.
• I didn't say no to the idea, I provided a con for your alleged discussion.

 

If you search the old threads that you didn't want to read you will see many ideas (still valid) from many players (still playing) that would help negate the con. I can start some of the leg work for you since people get tired of repeating themselves in countless repeat threads:

 

 

21 hours ago, Pashka said:

Spoiler

 

I didn't think of the pvp ramifications.  It does make it tough to keep up with who can do what if the name changes on that side of the coin.  That would be a nasty surprise to meet up with a char you have never seen before and have them knock the crap out of you.

 

I still do not agree with it on a pve basis either.  PVP basis would be horrible I'd think.

 

 

 

Military Intelligence is dangerous business.  Those who carry out that work are heroes that shouldn't have to pay the ultimate price, but always understand the risk going in.  Everyone who joins a PvP environment understands and accepts the risk, especially when there is such an equally well developed PvE option as in Wurm.  Often times, any suggestion to mitigate that risk is smacked down vehemently by the more boisterous PvPers, and there are some really loud ones.

It should only happen once that you are surprised by any new name.  A kingdom that does not manage information well is bound to fall.

It could also be argued to be on the Pro side, some people like the added challenge of not always knowing the outcome before entering battle.  They find knowing the outcome before a single swing monotonous.

 

I'm glad to hear not everyone wants to kill newbs.  That's great.  Newbs know the risks going in.  You will certainly know if you've killed a newb, and that's a wonderful opportunity for first contact.  You can volunteer tips, gear... could easily be the beginning of a beautiful friendship, and you of course disseminate his status throughout your kingdom so he/she is not killed by one of you again.  That newb will appreciate the community for that kind of reaction to having been inadvertently killed.

 

Smejack, the threads you linked are, at best, 2.5 years old.  The game has changed since then.  Players have joined and left.  Players have aged and perhaps gained new ideas or perspectives.  To necro is not always the best solution, sometimes is, but not always.  At best, they could have been linked in the OP.  One of us should have linked them earlier if we thought they were pertinent.  Glad you did so now, thanks.

 

Pashka, you mentioned PvE reasons a couple times, but I don't think you listed any of them?  It's not required, it's entirely up to you, but it's hard to address with any suggestions or changes to suggestions moving forward without knowing what they are.

 

43 minutes ago, As_I_Decay said:

Spoiler

Speak for yourself and don't make up unrealistic percentages. I'm a PVE player and I don't want name changes, I think account selling could be done away with too. Also sick of half of the people around here creating a different forum name every other week.

I like to be aware of who the dirtbags of the community are, just like in real life... so that I can avoid them. All of this identity shifting/hiding stuff only throws a wrench in the spoke of trying to protect oneself. 

And, as far as i'm concerned, most of the people interested in name changes are dirtbags. trying to hide their identity. It's a very small percentage that chose a name that they now do not like.

 

Did you know that 89% of statistics are made up on the spot 93% of the time? 

Should we really penalize people with legit reasons because none of us like dirtbags?  I don't particularly want to give dirtbags that kind of control or power, personally.  They should be dealt with harshly in ways that don't punish the innocent, while dirtbags carry on either way.  That's just putting more dirt in their bag.

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by Reylaark
Moved links inside the spoiler tag

[The Moidart 36]

I have bought accounts because it suits my Wurm goals at the time. I have never really been satisfied with the name attached to the account, therefore would like to see a one off name change per account.

 

[Angelklaine 4,266]

I bought a new character which is what I use on Chaos. I would love to be able to be able to rename it Angelklaine and sell the current Angelklaine or turn it into a battery. I like to believe I am a good person in Wurm. Does wanting to change my name make me a dirtbag?

 

I know many people like that.

[Joelle 728]

4 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

I bought a new character which is what I use on Chaos. I would love to be able to be able to rename it Angelklaine and sell the current Angelklaine or turn it into a battery. I like to believe I am a good person in Wurm. Does wanting to change my name make me a dirtbag?

 

I know many people like that.

 

The problem isn't the people with good intentions. It's the people who would inevitably abuse the feature that are the cause of so many others' reservations. I'm with you: this feature would be nice. However, it's those who would abuse it that will ruin the opportunity for the rest of the game's playerbase.

[Niki 2,278]

1 hour ago, As_I_Decay said:

Speak for yourself and don't make up unrealistic percentages. I'm a PVE player and I don't want name changes, I think account selling could be done away with too. Also sick of half of the people around here creating a different forum name every other week.

I like to be aware of who the dirtbags of the community are, just like in real life... so that I can avoid them. All of this identity shifting/hiding stuff only throws a wrench in the spoke of trying to protect oneself. 

And, as far as i'm concerned, most of the people interested in name changes are dirtbags. trying to hide their identity. It's a very small percentage that chose a name that they now do not like.

You have me on the percentage, however it's a small minority either way. Check the launcher for the server numbers if you need to.

 

Also not everyone is a dirt bag, one my alts was spelled wrong and I want to fix it.

[Pashka 707]

On 2/12/2017 at 9:21 PM, Pashka said:

I do not have a problem with account sales.  But I do not wish to see name changes.  I think if you buy a character you buy the reputation.  I know a good many people that didn't have stellar reputations that sold a character only to get it back.  I can't even keep up with all of my own alts some days.  I certainly do not wish to try to keep up with who changed what name to what.

 

I do like to keep up with some people.

[Tamorlane 381]

Not a fan of beating horses that have some illness or whatever, but as many have noted it is very possible for us to change player names when necessary.  The larger issue may be that we have a history of players who either pretend to sell or create sham sales in order to skirt potential disciplinary actions that they may have legitimately earned. These can be very tiresome events to track down - while not technically difficult in most cases it still takes a lot of what amounts to volunteer hours to sort out.

 

Some of the suggestions are actually pretty interesting.  If there was a way to record player name history with the player record it could mitigate some of the problems that the moderation staff is concerned with.  I have alts I made ten years ago that someone might find useful, but due to an entirely narcissist naming convention I would be unlikely to give away or sell, so I'm not entirely opposed.

 

But I do believe reputation over time matters a great deal.  As some have rather passionately pointed out, knowing who the person behind that character is can be very useful in a game world that has real world economic elements.  So an overt name history would have to be a part of any offering for it to work.  And certainly the administrative staff has the tools to use that history to resolve some of the less than noble reasons a person may want to change their name.

 

A house divided as in most Wurm things certainly.  There are many examples of online games that allow name changes as well as many who do not, so clearly it is a contested issue that has been fought over many times.  I am rather pleased however that this discussion has been and continues to be as civil as it is.

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Tamorlane
Removing what was accused of being a disclaimer...Hugsmjack

[Angelklaine 4,266]

1 hour ago, Tamorlane said:

Not a fan of beating horses that have some illness or whatever, but as many have noted it is very possible for us to change player names when necessary.  The larger issue may be that we have a history of players who either pretend to sell or create sham sales in order to skirt potential disciplinary actions that they may have legitimately earned. These can be very tiresome events to track down - while not technically difficult in most cases it still takes a lot of what amounts to volunteer hours to sort out.

 

Some of the suggestions are actually pretty interesting.  If there was a way to record player name history with the player record it could mitigate some of the problems that the moderation staff is concerned with.  I have alts I made ten years ago that someone might find useful, but due to an entirely narcissist naming convention I would be unlikely to give away or sell, so I'm not entirely opposed.

 

But I do believe reputation over time matters a great deal.  As some have rather passionately pointed out, knowing who the person behind that character is can be very useful in a game world that has real world economic elements.  So an overt name history would have to be a part of any offering for it to work.  And certainly the administrative staff has the tools to use that history to resolve some of the less than noble reasons a person may want to change their name.

 

A house divided as in most Wurm things certainly.  There are many examples of online games that allow name changes as well as many who do not, so clearly it is a contested issue that has been fought over many times.  I am rather pleased however that this discussion has been and continues to be as civil as it is.

 

_{/commentary from player perspective only and carries no weight in any manner other than in my own mind.}

This brings a good point, as do many others who have explained their agreement or opposition to name changing. But this gave me yet another venue that I'd like to explore regarding this: 

 

What about swapping names between two active accounts you own yourself? Or rather two accounts with the same email address? Granted, anyone can make a fresh alt and swap names and then trash the alt, effectively turning it into a name change. But here is what I believe would help mitigate the situation:

 

* Require both accounts to have a minimum stat requirement. Ex. Mind Logic 25. This completely eliminates the creation of some blank alt just to swap a name and nearly guarantees the player to own both accounts, as people won't just give up their names easily when the account can simply be sold. It also reduces the amount of trash accounts that are elegible for name swap.

 

* Require both accounts to have not had an email change for the past 3 months. This gives ample time for a purchased account to be associated with the buyer before the name can be changed, so reputation carries over without issues. Very few people hold on to an account for over 3 months just to hide nefarious activities in the future. It also prevents friends from loaning accounts just to take their names off them.

 

* Both accounts must be premium. Creates revenue for Wurm devs and further requires players use accounts they are invested on.

 

* Both accounts must be out of a PMK for the past 30 days. This benches a character out of the PvP theaters long enough to prevent the misuse with the intention of fooling other pmks or PvP players.

 

* Character must not have any warnings issued to them in the past xxx months/indefinite. This prevents those that violate the EULA or commit serious actions that require GM intervention from ditching the name to recover from the sanctions.

 

What do you guys think?

[NeeNee 855]

Just want to add my voice against name changes and for the reasons that everyone else has given so far. I would support a limited name change option in the first few months of a toon's life, done with GM permission for spelling mistakes, having a obviously totally stupid name, because you were 11 and a newb (but once, only once), things along that line. Not for money or silver though. 

[enoofu 206]

This may be another solution. just make the original name the last name.

 

[Aeris 3,751]

On 2017-02-13 at 0:39 AM, cccdfern said:

From what I understand, the playername is the unique id

 

This. We had a villager who was never premium and so when he was inactive his account got deleted. A year or so later someone else started an account in the same name and was automatically instated as a villager of ours, and I really don't care to have that happen ever again - But we can't prevent it since you can't actually remove villagers who've become deleted since they're automatically removed from all writ lists. It's one thing when a completely new account is started in an old name and a completely different when an account with the body stats necessary to bash buildings is deliberately changing names to the name of a former player. There are enough permission glitches as it is in the game, and thus far I've not heard anything about any improvement to the identifier situation.

[Angelklaine 4,266]

10 minutes ago, Aeris said:

 

...

 

Changing the identifier from name to an unique number for example, would fix any and all problems like this, even preventing this from happening ever again. But that is a completely different matter of course. Still this issue is unaffected by name changing. Someone who wants to do you harm in this manner needs to 1) know the name of the deleted villager he has to use. 2) pay/meet the requirements to change the name. 3) Be intentionally targetting you. 

 

vs. 

 

1) Creating a new character with the name in question and harming you.

 

I can't see why someone trying to use this exploit would PAY to change their name, when they can make a new character and get the name for free. 

[Launcelot 84]

I am for a limited amount of name changes 1-2 for the life of the account and only if they do not have any warnings. Personally I make all my own accounts and at this time I have 0 interest in buying someone else's hard work. However, I do not know what the future holds and I would like an option of name change. If I do buy an account in the future... the idea of buying a baller account for 600$ named something like Kittymeowsalot hurts me. Also may make accounts less or more valuable if they have  a name change "charge" on the account. I would also like this ability for another mirror since one of my alts is a bit to... orange ;/ (no that isn't a rl reference to someone) the skin color just looked lighter in the mirror than it actually was.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Launcelot

[Maiev 62]

Unique number wont do. If a change is to be made, the unique ID should be the original name and preferably appear as extra on the tab name when a private chat is opened (if you are in the friend list of the person, your new name should appear alone)

Edited February 16, 2017 by Maiev

[Corsan 199]

16 hours ago, Joelle said:

 

The problem isn't the people with good intentions. It's the people who would inevitably abuse the feature that are the cause of so many others' reservations. I'm with you: this feature would be nice. However, it's those who would abuse it that will ruin the opportunity for the rest of the game's playerbase.

 

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

 

I was trying to find another quote, but couldn't find it...this almost says what I wanted to say too though. We shouldn't allow bad people to control our actions, lest we cannot act when the time is needed.

 

10 hours ago, Aeris said:

 

This. We had a villager who was never premium and so when he was inactive his account got deleted. A year or so later someone else started an account in the same name and was automatically instated as a villager of ours, and I really don't care to have that happen ever again - But we can't prevent it since you can't actually remove villagers who've become deleted since they're automatically removed from all writ lists. It's one thing when a completely new account is started in an old name and a completely different when an account with the body stats necessary to bash buildings is deliberately changing names to the name of a former player. There are enough permission glitches as it is in the game, and thus far I've not heard anything about any improvement to the identifier situation.

 

This sounds like even more reason to make unique identifiers for each name, so there's no 'Oops' like this.

Personally I don't care one way or the other about having name changes, as I'd never pay for one, and am quite fine with my reputation I've built.

Seeing as some day I might be forced to sell this account for some extra money in real life, I wouldn't particularly care for someone taking advantage of my reputation...and would prefer that there was a feature you could use to tell that said individual behind the character has changed.

I already have a hard enough time trying to figure out who's alt is who in chats on here...or who's bought a character/sold....I'm plenty fine with people selling their characters...and wish more games would allow us to use the 'my time is money' thing this game does and stop the idiotic war on RMT which creates all kinds of other problems...

[Aeris 3,751]

Believe me, I don't want the name to stay in as the unique identifier - But even if they do change that or even if they already have changed it they'd still have a stockpile of things to sort out before it's even remotely safe.

[Gaeron 551]

Never saw an issue with this, the no name change aspect that is.

 

You are your reputation and your name is your identifier. Do bad, get bad rep, do good, get good rep. Part of the whole point of a persistent world.

 

As account sales are not part of CC's services and happen outside  of their control then when you buy an account, you buy its reputation as well.

 

So if it has a crappy rep, well its worth less. If the buyer wanted to get top $$$ for it, should have behaved differently in game.

 

If the buyer really doesn't want a toon with a bad rep, don't buy it.

 

Simples.

[Angelklaine 4,266]

What does bad rep really means though? Say, I buy the character named Tgod, and take it go Chaos. People will say *That's Angelklaine on the Tgod toon". They won't say "That's Tgod." If I buy Reincarnation, for example, JK would welcome me, the Misfits will welcome me, and NEXA will welcome me. People will say "AK, that's a mighty character you bought there!". Not one of these entities will think anything other than me buying a new character.

 

So what is this nonsense of reputation following the character? That's nothing more than an excuse for people to offer less money for an account. I have seen a few accounts from reputable people sell and no one offers them more money for having a good reputation. ??? The exception would be gm warnings as these have real tangible consequences in the game.

 

It seems to me like a crutch to be used to push ones opinion. Can someone explain how reputations follow the characters? Maybe I am missing something.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Angelklaine

[Pashka 707]

Let's say that Angelklaine has robbed several people on Deli.  Then you sell your char to someone else.  That person is going to be KOS on many deeds most likely.  They will find it hard to buy/sell.  They will find it difficult to join deeds.  Then let's say they take the char to Wild.  Wilders are gonna say that is the dude that stole from my friend.  Bop he is dead.  Let's make sure he stays dead.

 

Now if they know the person that bought the char they might say something along the lines of that is a nice char or you got a deal on the stats or whatever.  But if they do not, that is going to be something that will be hard on the player having purchased it.

 

Now, let's say you decide oh I want my char back. (many do this)  Ok you get it back but the person that had bought it had worked on the reputation.  So now you have a decent rep again.  Oh well.  I can access this deed?  Cool.  Ripped off.  I'm friends with this person.  Ripped off.

 

Now perhaps this doesn't happen often but it does happen.  It has happened several times.  I used your name because you seem to be the one that cannot fathom any reason anyone would care about a rep.  Now you should be able to understand it.  At least I hope so. 

 

Changing the name is just what many would use to hide behind a new name.  

[Pingpong 1,070]

Because names are the primary way we can communicate with our friends in WO, I've never supported name changes or toon sales for that matter. I have enough trouble with names as is and people changing their names only adds to the confusion, I don't feel like I should have to keep a spreadsheet on known thieves and their latest toon or my friends and which alt they are using to message me today.

[Madt 1,178]

Perhaps name changes can be something to submit to a GM (maybe a specific GM given the task of dealing with name changes).

 

Once it's made certain after some investigation theres no shady alterior motives behind the name change, it's granted.

 

And maybe add a small ingame cost to it, so it's not something to be taken lightly.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Madt

[Angelklaine 4,266]

54 minutes ago, Pashka said:

Let's say that Angelklaine has robbed several people on Deli.  Then you sell your char to someone else.  That person is going to be KOS on many deeds most likely.  They will find it hard to buy/sell.  They will find it difficult to join deeds.  Then let's say they take the char to Wild.  Wilders are gonna say that is the dude that stole from my friend.  Bop he is dead.  Let's make sure he stays dead.

 

Now if they know the person that bought the char they might say something along the lines of that is a nice char or you got a deal on the stats or whatever.  But if they do not, that is going to be something that will be hard on the player having purchased it.

 

Now, let's say you decide oh I want my char back. (many do this)  Ok you get it back but the person that had bought it had worked on the reputation.  So now you have a decent rep again.  Oh well.  I can access this deed?  Cool.  Ripped off.  I'm friends with this person.  Ripped off.

 

Now perhaps this doesn't happen often but it does happen.  It has happened several times.  I used your name because you seem to be the one that cannot fathom any reason anyone would care about a rep.  Now you should be able to understand it.  At least I hope so. 

 

Changing the name is just what many would use to hide behind a new name.  

 

This does make sense. It does seem a bit far fetched in the sense that there's a lot of "if"s but I think it's the best explanation I have heard to date. I agree with this.