9 days into the alpha test

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

i think any developer needs to address this as from the outlook of a new customer buying the game, downloading it, and trying to run it.

 

The argument of "you can potentially have more recipes than the WO people!!" is meaningless if you first have to research, invent, handcode, troubleshoot/test and load in four hundred and twenty five individual recipes scripts  just to catch up, let alone to have "more". New players should not be required to write script for their basic content. 

 

It's one of those arguments that sounds like a after the fact rationalization and not a "reason".   The "reason' seems to be, not 'disclosing secrets", else we would just get the update recipes along with the update,

 

 

 

Arguing that we got 72 "starter" recipes already is not a very good argument when most of those were things we already had, or things we cannot even use. 

 

the good news is, It's possible that another small batch of 50-100 recipes (bringing us to 150 or so total of WO's 500+) will go a good way towards smoothing out the roughest areas.

 

these should not be mods, these should be things all new customers download when they buy the game.

 

People who are not used to computers and internet, are rightfully suspicious of needing to use third party websites and third party fixes to play the basic game, especially if such mods can break their games in future patches and they are told Code Club is NOT RESPONSIBLE for any changes they make to the game.  

 

 

 

 

 

It's still an alpha, ok that's a decent argument as long as it looks like there will be more consideration to what the final release needs to be.

 

There are many good parts working fine right now. just not... umm ... Cooking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Brash_Endeavors

[joedobo 1,187]

34 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

but this way you get to make your own! Surely you can think outside the box of JUST WO recipes?

Code Clubs exclusion of WO recipes has nothing to do with me making my own. I would have been able to make my own anyway. Just like how I can add new item, new actions, new questions, new new new...

 

Enjoy that you have the power to act the way you do.

[belthize 438]

I have to say I don't see the reasoning (technical or subjective) for treating canned recipes and the ability to add recipes as mutually exclusive.

 

It sure seems as if WU should have a wide swath of base recipes, heck maybe even the same ones that WO has *and* the ability to add some.  If it's possible for a server owner to create a large list and add it then presumably it's possible for the base server install to add it.

 

I could see a 'keep the recipes a secret' argument if WO and WU had released at the same time but by now the WO recipe cat is out of the bag, has wandered down the street and narrowly avoided getting run over by a car.

 

It will be as it will be but I don't really get it.

[Retrograde 12,013]

Ultimately in situations it boils down to:

WO receives specific curated content

WU receives tools and assets to create and curate your own content.

 

Running a server for yourself is always slightly more technical in WU than other games, because it places YOU in the role of the server admin, YOU get to decide the content that comes in the game.

 

Make no mistake, this recipe system was designed from the ground up with WU in mind, the very fact individual files can be loaded into the server is proof of this, with WO all could be simply hard coded and have zero impact, but the goal is to provide WU with the tools to create their own, rather than a mirror image of WO.

 

It's how it has been in the past, and how it will be in the future, WU will still get the majority of content that WO gets, but will sometimes receive tools to create and curate their own content vs the exact same content WO gets.

 

And like I said, alpha with the recipes, might even have a competition too for players to provide some to go in with the official launch of 1.3, how would that sound?

[Brew 116]

Thank you for all the hard work either way it ends up. I prefer as a server owner to be able to have options, and not a theme park set up for me. Cheers all

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

I think if you intend to require a certain level of  technical background for people to run WU as a standalone singleplayer, you better make darn sure you are telling consumers that up front.  

not just say "oh my seven year old neighbor could do it so you can too." 

Or just count in advance on having a high percentage of new buyers ask for refunds,  then leave snarky negative reviews afterwards. Your option. 

 

It would not take much to add enough recipes to make it "playable out of the box"

maybe make this "contest" one that gives bonus points for implementing some of the unused features, while staying "original" (non-WO recipe) in hopes that you might get 10-20 useful "uniquely WU" recipes that between them cover  all the missing bases.

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Brash_Endeavors

[Sazaraki 2]

I agree that Wurm Online recipes should be a part of the Wurm Unlimited update by default. At least some of them should be anyways. If there are 500 in WO, WU should at least get half of those. It is not a good idea to have your player base be required to basically add configurations and make JSON files just to use one of your main features. It's great that you can add your own recipies, but it should have some recipies 'out-of-the-box' other than the basic 'meal' , 'casserole', etc. The cooking system is a great selling point for Wurm but not so much if it does very little unless you code in your own recipes. Having it extendable is a bonus feature that can also help sell the update as awesome.

[vardoj 43]

Is steam workshop a possibility?  That would certainly lower the barrier for entry for users to install mod content.

 

I saw mention that the new crops aren't growing (or is it all crops?).  So that's not just me then.  Do we have any sense of how far away a wild hive will migrate to a domestic one?

[ozmods 271]

1 hour ago, vardoj said:

Is steam workshop a possibility?  That would certainly lower the barrier for entry for users to install mod content.

 

I saw mention that the new crops aren't growing (or is it all crops?).  So that's not just me then.  Do we have any sense of how far away a wild hive will migrate to a domestic one?

I would suggest as close as possible, according to the food update doc, that's what I've done, as a test.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

4 hours ago, vardoj said:

I saw mention that the new crops aren't growing (or is it all crops?).  So that's not just me then.  Do we have any sense of how far away a wild hive will migrate to a domestic one?

 

All crops, old and new ones. Possibly also herb planters and bushes/trees such as the new hazelnut bushes & orange trees. it's harder to tell as those are not on the accelerated timers like farm crops.  If you have GM powers on your own test server, you can spam-Grow each individual tile with your ebony wand until they reach harvesting age, though at that point it is easier to spawn in bulk quantities of the new ingredients

 

________

 

i think the problem with Steam Workshop is 1) they would need to have an integrated mod-loader like other small indy games with mods have (and they have indicated they do not want to do this), 2) I believe Steam itself has certain basic standards that need to be met to even use Steam Workshop (and I suspect they don;t want to do that either). possibly that people simply "subscribe" to a mod and it gets downloaded+integrated into their game and automatically updated as needed every time the game is run. 

 

I don't play large "corporation" games any more. I play only tiny "indy" games, often ones made by much smaller development teams, and I can't think of any that have as convoluted, non intuitive system as Wurm, let alone removing basic content and then requiring people to script it back in using stuff like JSON templates.  I hope Code Club takes a look at the excellent systems and examples presented by other small  indy teams such as Rimworld, Rising World, 7 days to Die, maybe Mount & Blade (years since I played that), Banished, Unreal World (Finnish survival game). Most of those have tiny teams often 1-3 people but adding mods and/or running singleplayer standalone server or even small "family & friends" servers do  not require excessively technical expertise.  

 

You buy the game, You play the game, It's that simple. 

It would be a great business model for Wurm to emulate, and worth tons more than the large "advertising' campaigns others keep lobbying for. An excellent game with well designed systems usually "sells itself"  and does not need a large advertising budget, gamers themselves will do that part. 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Brash_Endeavors

[Cecci 1,609]

I seem to recall that Warlander or Keenan worked on a modloader in the spare time?

[Retrograde 12,013]

All games have basic content, and many have additional content that can be expanded upon, both by developers and by players.

 

Many games thrive simply because of mods.
 

We provide the game as is, and in many cases allow the tools for expanding that game if people wish to do so, a modding API is also in the works and will come.

[Ricowan 199]

I can see both sides of this, but with the current recipe list it's equivalent to saying "We have an awesome combat system in our game, and we've included recipes for a dagger, some blade blanks, basic cloth, and a leather left sleeve, but you will need to define the rest of the weapons and armor recipes yourselves."

 

[Brew 116]

I'm confused, isn't this game a sandbox?

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

The truly successful games with mods, are the ones where modders have the freedom to create their own visions.

 

 

A perfect way to poison that relationship, is to decide you'll simply conscript them into a forced-labor arm of the development team, where their involuntary role is to program the game for the devs, following the devs visions and following the devs agenda,  rather than their own.

 

 

 

 

 

yeah, good luck with that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Griffith 362]

a modding api will never come, if you keep adding "content" first.

Im not a coder but shouldnt the api come first, before it becomes such

a mess that the api is near impossible to implement?

 

so the longer you wait for the api, the less chance an api will be made.

im not holding my breath anyway.

[coffeene 13]

On 2/10/2017 at 10:38 AM, Retrograde said:

All games have basic content, and many have additional content that can be expanded upon, both by developers and by players.

 

Many games thrive simply because of mods.
 

We provide the game as is, and in many cases allow the tools for expanding that game if people wish to do so, a modding API is also in the works and will come.

 

Are we going to get the crop growing bug fixed before it goes to public alpha or beta?

Edited February 14, 2017 by coffeene

[Eject 407]

I am still playing on the 1123 version.

My question is because the recipes creation, is this for the players or can server admins create recipes?

 

Eject

[Mordraug 2,542]

On 2/9/2017 at 10:59 AM, Retrograde said:

but this way you get to make your own! Surely you can think outside the box of JUST WO recipes?

 

No snark, no hostility.  I'd be able to make my own, sure.  PITA that said (pun intended), got a lot on my plate apart from my solo server in WU which I may or may not open to other people someday, but for now it's my playground.

 

Think basic marketing.

"You can code in tons of personalized recipes... gg when interconnecting two established servers btw.. "

(I can't be the only one hoping to someday see a 20+ map WU cluster)

OR

"It brings lots of recipes, AND you can add your own with some basic tech knowhow"

 

"Lots"..... 
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Cooking (finish reading this post before opening that wikia lmao)

 

If you want the tl;dr, 11 boozes, 1 tea, milk cream butter cheese, 7 baked potato meals, the ingredients on baked potatoes count as a less awesome version of the "potato + stuff", fishcake cakecake chocolatecake, plain pizza + 3 kinds, 3 kinds of stew, 10 pies, bread and pita, about as many fish as wurm has, a few random types of meat including spiders and such.  That adds to 43, so for a proper WU out of the box product we'd be talking 50-100 recipes total.  50's pretty badass already when you compare to most games of most types.

 

This counts as LOTS for an out of the box experience.  No shame in taking tips from other industry veterans if you ain't copying exactly.  That gives a good baseline for what's expected from something worthy of calling itself a "sandbox".  If not, it's actually better to say "everything BUT cooking rocks, but meat + pumpkin does the job so no one cares".

 

 

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

1 hour ago, Eject said:

I am still playing on the 1123 version.

My question is because the recipes creation, is this for the players or can server admins create recipes?

 

Eject

 

Not sure if this answers your question, but  all new JSON recipes including the ones using this new modding tool, MUST be added by the server admin, this is not something individual players can add to their gameplay. it's 100% server side.  

 

 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Brash_Endeavors

[Eject 407]

thank you =)

[ozmods 271]

I have orange trees in as well hazelnut bushes and they're growing sweetly, I however have to ask, will they give off sprouts or will we have to still forage for those? same with hazelnut bushes?

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

the new orange and hazelnuts will give off spouts like other trees and bushes, one way to test this for yourself with a GM wand is to use the wand's NATURE>GROW command on them a few times until they are mature or older

[14:33:09] You cut a sprout from the tree.

[14:33:34] You cut a sprout from the tree.

(all trees/bushes will say 'tree' when cutting spouts)

 

However also like other trees/bushes, they won't give off oranges or hazelnuts until their proper "season"

 

You can also use a GM wand to NATURE>GROW your new herb and spice planters, until they give a PICK option. Picking will not only give you fresh herbs and spices but also will make these plants live a little longer than simply leaving them be.

You can also collect Pinenuts from pine trees in the proper season. Acorns may be harvested from oak trees around Snake, week 2.  They can still be botanized at any time.

You can harvest certain items from a Trellis during the correct season including Hops, Roses, Grapes.

 

A few things can not be planted/farmed such as Nutmeg, Cocoa, Sassafras, Nettles. Those can only be acquired by forage/botanize. I think i am forgetting one other, I forget what it is right now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Brash_Endeavors

[ozmods 271]

cheers t hanks, thought it bit strange that we had to forage for them to begin with, I haven't spotted a single orange tree anywhere.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

the reason you have to forage for them is because most servers were not generated with them to jumpstart the process. Most people do not want to wipe and regenerate their maps just to get orange trees.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Brash_Endeavors