Tallios

Trader improvements PLEASE!

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I don't know what changes are in the future for merchants and traders, but I would like to make a few simple requests.

 

  1. All traders need to be able to make change.
    • Currently I can give a merchant or trader all my coins and he will convert them to the least amount of coins of equal value. Even if he doesn't have enough coins himself.
    • The trader when giving change during a trade is limited to what coins they have "on-hand". So even if I give him a 5c coin to make up for the 86i overage.  The trader can't make change for it.
  2. I cannot currently agree to a trade in favor of the trader.  
    • I want a 50c item from the trader, I offer a 60c item.  The trader will not accept it, because he doesn't have 10c in change to balance the trade.
    • This becomes an even greater problem because people trade "anything" to a trader to drain off all the change the trader has.
  3. A summary window on the bottom of the trader window to help facilitate trades. Can we please have something that just add's up both sides of the trade and displays it.
    • I actually enjoy trading, however constantly having to add up both sides to see which way the balance of trade is makes it very very difficult.
    • The inconsistent formatting of decimals also makes it easy to mess up math.
    • Currently the trader "demands" more coin if your offer is less, but only says "I don't have enough change" otherwise.  
  4. (optional) Being able to activate a coin and right click a merchant/trader/token to "break" the coin into smaller denominations.  So for example, if you withdraw 5s.  You get 1, 5s coin. If you activate it, and right click a merchant you can then break that coin into 5, 1s coins.  And so on.  Thus keeping it the least amount of coins, but allowing greater flexibility.
  5. (optional) Change the requirement for owning a trader on a deed to be a deed that covers of 400-600 tiles instead of the 50 tiles distance from another trader.  Thus allowing people with large deeds to have multiple traders in a market area.
  6. (optional) Change the trader so that he will only give coin in response to a trade from him.  Thus limiting Trader draining.

 

Thank you Dev's!

Edited by Tallios
Corrected tiles required for a trader on a deed as per Riddic's concerns

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-1 to all the above

 

If you want to break up coins.... use a token.

The rest seems to be nerf trader draining more cause reasons.

Trading items in favor of the trader (as in he gets whats valued higher but you get the item you want for it) is meh not really needed as you just need to make up a few coppers not really a big deal.

 

 

2500 tiles in every direction from a trader instead of the 60 or so it is now... yeah... get out. Traders are already nerfed into the ground and what little use they are are doesn't need to be taken from them, just sounds like a bitter xana player being bitter.  ((ah think i misread that and your meaning a deed size as a min not sure how large that would be but anyway its dumb as you can place a trader anywhere doesn't have to be on deed you can have this one large deed your apart of and drop it on another 1s deed or offdeed in the woods in a 1x1 house))

Edited by Riddic

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21 minutes ago, Riddic said:

-1 to all the above

 

"If you want to break up coins.... use a token."

first off how do you use a token to break coins???  oh you must mean at "Your bank"  well I actually travel.  So my bank is useless when I'm not at my home location.  additionally, If I pull out coins out of a token.  I'm still stuck as I get the amount in the minimum number of coins.  Unless you know of a way to ask for a specific amount of certain coins I'm unaware of.

 

"The rest seems to be nerf trader draining more cause reasons."

And yes Riddic.... I would personally LOVE to see trader draining NERFED because IT IS an abuse of the system.  I don't care how long it's been around or that it's allowed.    It's an abuse.

However, I'm willing to settle for actual usefulness at this point as opposed to telling abusers to perform disturbing actions upon themselves.

 

"Trading items in favor of the trader (as in he gets whats valued higher but you get the item you want for it) is meh not really needed as you just need to make up a few coppers not really a big deal."

Some people actually, and I know this is crazy.  LIKE the notion of trading.  I don't want to "waste" my coin on buying things because the coin trade value on many things is total crap.  I have skills so I produce things to trade.  So others can do the same.    I have simply asked that if I am willing to trade a chain boot for a longbow, and the trader values my bow more than the boot.  Let me accept that.  Right now I can't, and that's the problem.

 

"2500 tiles in every direction from a trader instead of the 60 or so it is now... yeah... get out."

This one is a simple misunderstanding.  I DID NOT say 2,500 tiles per trader.  What I said was that I would think it would be nice to have traders on a deed limited by the number of tiles YOUR DEED owns.  the arbitrary number is 2,500 which is 50x50 which upon reflection is a miscalculation on my part.  It should be something between 400 - 600 tiles per trader on a deed. this is a rough account of the space between traders on freedom.  Thus if we say 500 tiles per trader on a deed, you would need to maintain a deed of sufficient size to maintain the trader.  This would give more flexibility to people who want to own traders.

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Yeah I thought i got the tile restriction wrong but as i said traders do not need to be dropped on a deed they will become a member of the deed of person who places them and they can be placed anywhere unless another trader is too close, so you can place it ondeed or on a friends or alts deed making the owners min deed requirement void.

 

The rest doesn't seem worth going over again.

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Just now, Riddic said:

Yeah I thought i got the tile restriction wrong but as i said traders do not need to be dropped on a deed they will become a member of the deed of person who places them and they can be placed anywhere unless another trader is too close, so you can place it ondeed or on a friends or alts deed making the owners min deed requirement void.

 

The rest doesn't seem worth going over again.

 

The tile requirement is meant to be a reason to maintain a deed, and not pocket deeds.

 

As for the rest, I think you haven't even made a worthwhile argument to support your opposition.

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How about just making banks available from every token? That would solve all of your coinage issues (I assume).

 

Everything else just sounds like hate on players getting money from Traders.

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Personally i believe Traders mechanics should be turned in Auction Houses as Funds from the King was a silly and broken mechanic from day one

 

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I would also like the ability to move a trader from it's position to a new position if you are the first owner. Had a deed shrink forcing me to lose access to my trader when someone else through a house over top of it. Still a citizen of my deed, still a trader I paid for, unfortunately can't move the trader to a new location so now I've had 50s stolen in accordance with current game rules.

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Nothing against people who use traders, but here's what's always bothered me about that particular mechanic...

 

I buy my premium time from CCAB directly.  I generally use the 1 month + silver option.

I then go in-game, and use the silver above to pay for my deed upkeep.  Wurm's given me so much entertainment, happy to do it.

 

If my understanding is correct, that upkeep now becomes part of the king's funds.  The king's funds are then distributed out to traders, which are then manipulated and drained to get the money I've bought and put into the King's funds.

They could have just made a cow that milks out silver.  A cash cow, it would have been more transparent and there'd be no confusion as to them actually serving any other purpose.

 

+1 to OP's suggestions.

-1 to his polite and reasonable restraint.

+1 to taking a flamethrower to the whole thing.

 

Net = +1.

 

ps.  Yes, I know, the traders were "nerfed" since using more of the King's Funds for foraging and token rewards.  [insert a chimp-like flailing of arms in the air]  They weren't nerfed, they're just less efficient at embezzling the King's generosity for personal gain.  I find the whole thing terribly upsetting.  [insert chimp-like flinging of poo, followed by some serious hand washing]

 

 

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2 hours ago, enoofu said:

Personally i believe Traders mechanics should be turned in Auction Houses as Funds from the King was a silly and broken mechanic from day one

 

 

I think auctioneer could be a third type of merchant, set specifically up for doing just that. It doesn't need to replace either the merchant or the trader.

+1

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On 2/7/2017 at 8:14 PM, Tallios said:

All traders need to be able to make change.

 

this is prob the only thing from first read that i support as it's actually not changing anything if i read it right, since you still spent the same amount of money and the trader didn't lose any

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Remove traders, refund the owners their silver.

 

Upgrade merchants.

Put all the Trader-only stuff on them (magic chests and such) at their actual price, none of this silly loading them up with junk to get half you silver back. Just cut the price by half.

Make everything on any merchant buyable from any other merchant. This would probably come with a mark-up to cover the merchant "mailing" it and the merchants "finders fee" (5% for the merchant owner sounds good) and slightly nudge bargain hunters to visit the merchant the item is actually carried by and reward those setting up markets.

Allow barter. I might feel like listing that rare sprout as "cash or barter." just to see what I get. Also allow overpayment with barter so the poor sod doesn't need to count out individual blades of grass to get the exact price.

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+1, TBH though id rather a semi difficult leatherworking craft called a "wallet", or a cloth tailoring craft called a "coin pouch". And have it so you can store money inside of it and pull the money out in any type of change possible. Not logical but still wogical. EX: Place 1 silver coin inside of the wallet. Meet a merchant with a product you want for 60c? right click the wallet and withdraw 60c from it and get it in change. Influence people to carry around money, those who are confident enough to live outside their deed that is, and possibly purchase stuff on the go from merchants, traders, and possibly people.

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6 hours ago, Nappy said:

I would also like the ability to move a trader from it's position to a new position if you are the first owner. Had a deed shrink forcing me to lose access to my trader when someone else through a house over top of it. Still a citizen of my deed, still a trader I paid for, unfortunately can't move the trader to a new location so now I've had 50s stolen in accordance with current game rules.

 

Nice try Nappy, but your trader was not stolen.

 

1) You shrunk your own deed, leaving your trader outside of your deed

 

2) You blew up the building that used to house your trader, leaving the trader in the open

 

3) When I came along and seen this, you actually told me I could 'have' the trader, which I deeded over, but really is no point as it is still a member of your own deed so it collects tax's for your deed from time to time

 

Do not accuse me of stealing your trader.

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1 hour ago, JakeRivers said:

 

Nice try Nappy, but your trader was not stolen.

 

1) You shrunk your own deed, leaving your trader outside of your deed

 

2) You blew up the building that used to house your trader, leaving the trader in the open

 

3) When I came along and seen this, you actually told me I could 'have' the trader, which I deeded over, but really is no point as it is still a member of your own deed so it collects tax's for your deed from time to time

 

Do not accuse me of stealing your trader.

I will agree to number 1. I will agree to number 2. I never did number 3. Never happened and wouldn't have. I do have a message from you asking me to give it over to you. If I had given it to you I would have revoked it's citizenship which would have given you ownership.

 

I left it in the open for the community to use since it was the only one in the area. You immediately, within a week decided to build a building and a deed over it. So while the game may support your action, doesn't change the fact that I paid the 50 silver for something that you paid nothing for but now have in your possession.

 

Try some honesty for a change, perhaps you will like how it feels.

 

It's ok to admit you blocked it from the rest of the community and then attempted to take it for yourself. The rules support you trying to do this even on a PVE server. Doesn't mean I have to accept that you have the right to take something I paid for and for which you paid nothing.

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To refresh your memory Jake here's your message to me:

 

(snip)

 

I was wondering if you would mind 'revoking' the citizenship of your exo trader near napland. I will take good care of it and will offer it back to you if you ever come back to play full time on exodus

 

(end snip)

 

Originally put this here to refresh your memory but in reading it myself perhaps I am being a bit harsh. Sounds like you are making a firm offer to return my trader to me. Ok, I will reprem Nappy and you will provide me with my trader back correct?

 

The message above is in my forum mailbox. I am sure that if you file a support ticket the appropriate staff can confirm it's unaltered authenticity.

 

~Nappy

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I remember asking you about it in local, can't remember exactly though.

 

What did you seriously expect though after resizing your deed and blowing up the building, a building could of been left over it and made public if that was your intent.

 

If I didn't take it, someone else would have in any case.

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Sorry.. but on the totem pole this should be at the bottom of things to get worked on. Traders shouldn't be messed with, rather have better game updates.

 

-1

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7 hours ago, Darmalus said:

Remove traders, refund the owners their silver.

 

Upgrade merchants.

Put all the Trader-only stuff on them (magic chests and such) at their actual price, none of this silly loading them up with junk to get half you silver back. Just cut the price by half.

Make everything on any merchant buyable from any other merchant. This would probably come with a mark-up to cover the merchant "mailing" it and the merchants "finders fee" (5% for the merchant owner sounds good) and slightly nudge bargain hunters to visit the merchant the item is actually carried by and reward those setting up markets.

Allow barter. I might feel like listing that rare sprout as "cash or barter." just to see what I get. Also allow overpayment with barter so the poor sod doesn't need to count out individual blades of grass to get the exact price.

Rather they fix Traders and make them useful as just about everyone with Traders has already made their Silver back unless they bought after all the traders Nerfs

 

Believe giving Traders Auction House linking of their goods would help resolve some of their issues and other Buying/Selling improvements including allowing traders to be moved like merchants and the owner receiving fees for it usage

13 hours ago, Tallios said:

 

I think auctioneer could be a third type of merchant, set specifically up for doing just that. It doesn't need to replace either the merchant or the trader.

+1

Traders really do not have any purpose at this time except for receiving funds from the Traders kingdom pool ,they should just move that pool to the other pool

 

"Foraging and botanizing give a very low chance to find coin.

Killing creatures gives a very low chance to find coin, double chance if they are domestic animals."

 

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1 minute ago, enoofu said:

Rather they fix Traders and make them useful as just about everyone with Traders has already made their Silver back unless they bought after all the traders Nerfs

 

Believe giving Traders Auction House linking of their goods would help resolve some of their issues and other Buying/Selling improvements including allowing traders to be moved like merchants and the owner receiving fees for it usage

Traders really do not have any purpose at this time except for receiving funds from the Traders kingdom pool ,they should just move that pool to the other pool

This just makes merchants redundant. Merchants and Traders, we don't need both and the players would be better off with just 1 that fills the niche properly than 2 that try to share the same roll.

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9 minutes ago, enoofu said:

Traders really do not have any purpose at this time except for receiving funds from the Traders kingdom pool ,they should just move that pool to the other pool

 

"Foraging and botanizing give a very low chance to find coin.

Killing creatures gives a very low chance to find coin, double chance if they are domestic animals."

 

Uh, yes they do.... as I stated at the beginning.   Trading is a good thing, however due to the fact that the prices the traders deal in not being really linked to the live market has caused a disparity between actual coin worth and trader perception.  I regularly go and trade things off the traders because it's like a random shuffle of things from across the server.

 

One of the nice things wurm has is the ability via an NPC to exchange items not based on $$$$$$$$$$$$.  Yes it has a get price value in game, but that is not attached to money out of my pocket.

 

So I must strongly disagree when you say that traders have no purpose.  I think they have a great one!

Edited by Tallios

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24 minutes ago, Tallios said:

 

Uh, yes they do.... as I stated at the beginning.   Trading is a good thing, however due to the fact that the prices the traders deal in not being really linked to the live market has caused a disparity between actual coin worth and trader perception.  I regularly go and trade things off the traders because it's like a random shuffle of things from across the server.

 

One of the nice things wurm has is the ability via an NPC to exchange items not based on $$$$$$$$$$$$.  Yes it has a get price value in game, but that is not attached to money out of my pocket.

 

So I must strongly disagree when you say that traders have no purpose.  I think they have a great one!

True i do like the bartering ability and i doubt their is a good solution for fixing price value for traders non special items in a player driven economy 

25 minutes ago, Darmalus said:

This just makes merchants redundant. Merchants and Traders, we don't need both and the players would be better off with just 1 that fills the niche properly than 2 that try to share the same roll.

Believe its the Cost difference was my original thinking as you can buy 5 merchants for 1 trader cost, but to agree merchants need some help as very few people are using them except for storage-bins

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mostly do to lack of New skills lately and few special items

 

 

Edited by enoofu

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Multiple problems make merchants under used. Travel time sharply limits the number of people willing to even look at your goods, lack of desirable consumables and deflationary economy come to mind. Combining all listed goods into a server-wide merchant pool would do a lot to address the first one by ensuring you only need to find one merchant to participate in the economy.

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Just now, Darmalus said:

Multiple problems make merchants under used. Travel time sharply limits the number of people willing to even look at your goods, lack of desirable consumables and deflationary economy come to mind. Combining all listed goods into a server-wide merchant pool would do a lot to address the first one by ensuring you only need to find one merchant to participate in the economy.

 

Don't forget the inability to list any kind of purchase order on a merchant as a contributing factor as well.

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Traders are so nerfed into the ground they no longuer pay the upkeeps of the deeds they are upon, only thing all the nerfs did was give coins to people who barely invested into the game and drive some of the large CCAB funders out.

 

Traders need some love, nerfing them even more is not the solution.

 

As for public traders, they are full with junk, so if you trully want to buy something from them, have a few iron coins and a lot of random ###### ranging from a few silvers worth down to a few irons (and use your irons coins to set up the last difference) (ain't like the token selling give you those easilly).

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