Repairing public houses is impossible

[Anarres 246]

I went to a steppe, and found an inn. It's a public off-deed house, in the middle of the steppe, with no deed nearby, built for the tired traveler. Very simple, but nicely done, with a bsb and fsb inside and some meats and fuel - which I could pick up and use. 3 beds upstairs, even decorative items like a bookshelf, and a little fence for horses. Happy that these houses still exist in wurm, I took a nap inside.

 

Before going on my way, I checked the walls:

 

[17:38:23] Material wood.

[17:38:23] You see a wall.

[17:38:23] QL=38.226078, dam=25.082474

 

So I thought, okay, I can repair and improve this house, it's nice to have here in the steppe. Hey, the least I can do as thanks. So, I rode to the closest forest, made planks, and came back. Activate plank, right click house -> Repair.

 

[17:38:43] You do not have permission to do that here.

 

This can't be right. It's a public house, clearly intended for everyone to use, you can pick up items even, you can repair items inside, you can pass all doors, and signs on it say clearly that it's "free to use". It has permissions set for kingdom to enter and pick up. It's off deed, on public land. But, you can't repair it anymore, and you can't make it high ql for future travelers. You should be able to do so with off-deed houses at least.

 

(I am guessing repair got tied by mistake to building permissions, somehow assuming it's the same thing. It is not; you should NOT need permissions to build walls or destroy its walls in order to repair it. Build or destroy for kingdom have potential for many unwanted things to happen to these houses, and it should not be needed.)

 

Note: it's not in a perimeter either. You can't repair a house in a perimeter; the other side of this mechanic is that outside perimeters you could repair. Public houses are a nice thing in wurm that may get forgotten in the heat of establishing permissions for everything and anything, but this case this shouldn't be a matter of permissions at all. As you see, there are still players building them, and I don't think their work should be reduced to nothing where I can help it. I always could repair houses in the wild, I kept alive public inns where their builders moved on, and I believe that's how it should work.

 

Note 2: same goes for improve. I see "repair" in right click menu, I don't see "improve"; obviously I can't improve if I can't repair first.

[Yldrania 1,425]

While I agree that it's stupid that you can't repair, I don't think it's a server bug - the owner simply hasn't given permissions for people to repair. I believe that thread would be better in the Suggestions section as a suggestion to separate permissions for repairing and improving from building.

[Grumpysmith 135]

On Epic I've encountered similar situations with off deed buildings either with some of my alts in buildings I've built or on other buildings not on someone's deed.  Since their isn't any guards or deed restrictions I simply go unlawful and fix the building.

 

As I said this is on Epic and specifically on Affliction so it may be totally inappropriate on Freedom servers.  Someone from Freedom can weigh-in on the ramifications of doing this on a Freedom server.  But it is nice to see someone who appreciates what others do and attempt to continue to pay it forward.  So my respects to you!

[Anarres 246]

On 1/25/2017 at 6:22 PM, Yldrania said:

While I agree that it's stupid that you can't repair, I don't think it's a server bug - the owner simply hasn't given permissions for people to repair. I believe that thread would be better in the Suggestions section as a suggestion to separate permissions for repairing and improving from building.

 

But there is no such thing as "permission to repair", it is only "modify building" where I think this got dumped in, mistakenly, and it should not have been. It definitely doesn't have the same impact as building extra walls or destroying walls in the house, nowhere close.

 

A new "permission to repair" for buildings doesn't make sense, because there is no reasonable use case it would solve. WHEN exactly an owner of a house would want to prevent repairing of that house? Off deed houses like public inns and highway safehouses are a known chore to keep alive. Some people even deed only to avoid repairing the hunting house. All we hear in chat channels and forums is how annoying it is to have to repair the off-deed houses, and how there was a hunting house but it poofed, and so on. So creating yet another "permission to repair" when you never want to forbid repair doesn't make any sense.

 

It goes without saying that if the owner wants the house to die, first, it will anyway (sooner or later), second, they have a one-click demolish.

 

The reasonable solution here is to consider carefully the use cases, and remove restrictions on repairing and improving of houses, in all cases except perimeter of a deed with different owner. All the rest of restrictions aren't useful, and some of them, like restrictions placed on public off-deed houses, are harmful.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

You need permission on the building to repair it.

 

If this has not been set, only the person who created the building may repair.

 

 

[Anarres 246]

7 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

You need permission on the building to repair it.

 

If this has not been set, only the person who created the building may repair.

 

More precisely, repairing somehow got tied to the "modify building" permission. And it doesn't make sense: repairing doesn't "modify" the building.

[zigozag 918]

5 hours ago, Anarres said:

More precisely, repairing somehow got tied to the "modify building" permission. And it doesn't make sense: repairing doesn't "modify" the building.

 

Yes, but since that's how it's made, try suggestion forums.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

20 hours ago, Anarres said:

 

More precisely, repairing somehow got tied to the "modify building" permission. And it doesn't make sense: repairing doesn't "modify" the building.

 

Why should you be able to repair any building you want out there?

 

Maybe some buildings should be left to decay especially on fallen deeds, it does suck though when you have gatehouses and defensive structures on chaos which may require repairing, but that is about the only situation where it would matter, in a emergency nothing can about done about it.

 

This shouldn't be a discussion, that is for the suggestions forums, but just wanted to point out why repairing requires the modify building permission, well most likely reason anyways.

Edited January 29, 2017 by JakeRivers

[Meldichoir 242]

 

I acknowledge that there must be some issue, otherwise there would not be this confusion.  This is what I understand to be responsible for repair permission:

 

It has always been the 'May Enter' permission that enables a person to repair, unless that been changed recently.

That permission alone does not enable pickup or modification, although it does allow entry through locked doors. (if the door is not locked you can enter regardless, but locked doors can also be independently managed)

[Anarres 246]

2 hours ago, Meldichoir said:

 

I acknowledge that there must be some issue, otherwise there would not be this confusion.  This is what I understand to be responsible for repair permission:

 

It has always been the 'May Enter' permission that enables a person to repair, unless that been changed recently.

That permission alone does not enable pickup or modification, although it does allow entry through locked doors. (if the door is not locked you can enter regardless, but locked doors can also be independently managed)

 

If this was the case recently, then it's broken.

 

"May enter" did not control, the house was locked with entry enabled for kingdom. Edit: presumably to keep out humanoids like trolls, but of course allow all Freedom humans in.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Anarres

[Anarres 246]

4 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

Maybe some buildings should be left to decay especially on fallen deeds

 

If you want to destroy someone else's house, then perimeter over it. That prevented repairs. It did so for a long time. So, you can get your wish: that house will decay for sure, the owner can't repair, no one else can repair.

 

That mechanics existed for years, worked just fine, and it's one of the reasons I don't understand why another mechanics to restrict repairs would be added. One that is overbroad, pointless, and makes the first less relevant too. I am guessing it's some oversight.

[Anarres 246]

Update:

Actually.. it's not even Modify Building permission, apparently. A friend gave me modify building on a stone building, and:

[23:59:52] You create a stone brick.

[00:00:16] You do not have permission to do that here. (repair)

 

Checking that I have indeed modify building: (they're offline atm)

[00:00:47] You may now go against the will of your god.

[00:00:49] You start to destroy the wall.

[00:00:51] You stop destroying wall.

 

Another friend had given me Manage Building on some other houses a few days ago, and those buildings, and only those, I could repair.

(few days older log)

[20:18:48] You start to repair the wall.
[20:19:17] You repair the wall a bit.

 

It seems clear to me that this behavior cannot have been intended, more likely repair and improve restrictions were added for buildings and they slipped in the wrong category.

 

At minimum, if devs want to make restrictions here, apply them to Can Enter. I would suggest to just remove these restrictions completely, though.