Attenia

Get rid of or modify animal/deed ratio

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I'm trying to keep a collection of animals, but if I don't want them to start dying from the deed ratio, I'm going to have to spend a fortune on upkeep for a deed twenty times the size I actually need it. The current deed ration is one animal per 15 tiles. 15 tiles? There is no conceivable way one animal can need 15 tiles. One animal per two tiles would be perfect. Actually, you could probably keep one animal per one tile. I have a lot of animals and I keep two of them in two by one pens, and they manage perfectly well. If we can't get rid of this, could we at least make it more reasonable? If it can't be an animal per two or three animals, at least make it one per every five? That's more than enough for one animal. The number of animals that can be on one server at a time can be modified it necessary so that plenty still spawn for everyone else who doesn't have big animal collections, I don't think anyone would complain about having more animals around - giving everything from fight skill to meat to a collection opportunity for those of us who breed them, animals are useful for all of us. I understand that having a lot of animals may make a certain deed laggy, but that should be for the deed owner and village members to decide if they are willing to deal with.

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How many animals do you intend to have?

A 1500 tiles deed cost 3 silver upkeep per month, that is enough for 100 animals.

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I need space for 650, which totals to an upkeep of nearly 20 silver. With a more reasonable deed ratio, I could have a deed that cost 3s per month and still have plenty of space for all the pens.

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2 minutes ago, Attenia said:

I need space for 650, which totals to an upkeep of nearly 20 silver. With a more reasonable deed ratio, I could have a deed that cost 3s per month and still have plenty of space for all the pens.

 

How do you need space for that many animals? Do you keep all that you raise? 

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The ratio is in place to prevent masses of bred animals turning the servers into giant lagfests.

 

-1

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You can always keep some of them off deed (in a house for example).

 

-1 from me also.

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-1 from me too, don't need any more lag than we already have and no one needs that many animals. The ratio is perfect as-is.

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No, I don't keep all that I raise, just those for my breeding and animal collection. Here are my calculations:

 

130 for every animal of every condition, x2 because animals sometimes randomly die for no reason, so there needs to be a spare at all times

10 breeding bison for 5 speed

8 breeding unicorns for 5 speed

8 breeding cows/bulls for 5 speed

16 breeding horses for 5 speed (1 pair of each colour)

10 breeding hell horses for 5 speed

24 of all the other tameable/dominate-able animals that don't have conditions x2 because of random dying

10 black sheep herd

Napoleons: 8

New year's narwhals: 7

Great horned goose: 3

Butters: 10

Aquaphobic swans: 12

15 herd of 5 speed horses for my alliance to take from

15 herd of 5 speed hell horses for my alliance to take from

12herd of 5 speed bison for my alliance to take from

10 herd of 5 speed unicorns for my alliance to take from (for when they can wear gear)

10 herd of 5 speed cows/bulls for my alliance to take from

Extra champion dog pen: 15

Extra champion deer herd: 15

Extra tortoise pen: 10

Random other animals that wander onto this gigantic deed and mess with the ratio: 50

Future Christmas animals: 100

Total: 650

 

I don't have all of these yet, but my collection is coming on along well and grows all the time. I have thought of keeping animals off deed, but that has the two huge disadvantages of requiring constant repairing for all the fences, and being susceptible to being bashed/picked by other players.

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4 minutes ago, Joelle said:

no one needs that many animals

 

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I won't be able to say +1 or -1 to this as I am indifferent, but I do see your point Attenia, and your calculations seem reasonable for someone who wants to collect animals. However, I believe that this might be a problem not many people face, as most people keep animals in way lower numbers on their deeds, so I don't think you'll be able to get anywhere with this suggestion.

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I get that, and I know it's a long shot, but it just seems really unfair to me that having an interest in animals is made so much harder by the deed ratio than anything else. A weapon smith can have hundreds of weapons, a farmer can have hundreds of crops, a builder can have hundreds of houses, all of those on deed with no problem... but a breeder wanting hundreds of animals had better have a lot of money, or it's not going to happen...

Edited by Attenia

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Attenia - Most people that have a large breeding program only keep breeding stock on deed. Everything else they keep in pens off deed. Either that or yes, they spend large amounts of money. 

 

Ratios are in place to prevent people from throwing the server-wide populations off. 650 creatures in 1000 tiles would really throw off the server counts for everyone else. 

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Specially if we all start keeping that many animals on deed at the ratio OP wants.

 

If your alliance  wants animals maybe it is good if alliance can have a shared deed for that reason.

Or some of them may have space on their deeds for you to keep your/(their future) animals.

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Can't tell if hes trolling or just wanted to show off his champion legacy stock/Misnamed event animals?...... maybe neither and he just needs to get out more, either way.     -1   : more server lag more people messing with server ratios.

Edited by Riddic

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2 hours ago, Attenia said:

The number of animals that can be on one server at a time can be modified it necessary so that plenty still spawn for everyone else who doesn't have big animal collections, I don't think anyone would complain about having more animals around

 

This is making me wonder - do you play on online or unlimited? They cannot just easily adjust the animal population on online servers. They're set to a number where there's as many as possible right now, without causing server lag problems.

 

The deed ratio cap was put into place because of the enormous amount of animals people would keep, to the point where no more animals would spawn in the wild. You want to hold 650 animals - now imagine that a fifth of the servers population likes animals too and does this. You'd have a lot of penned animals! I've seen a few zoos over time so it's not unlikely that, if given the option, quite a few people would do so.

 

Exodus; currently 63 online

 

12 of them  breeders

12 x 650 = 7800 penned by collectors

51 people having about 10 or so animals for personal use

51*10 = 510

 

8310 penned animals

 

http://freedom003.game.wurmonline.com/mrtg/creatures.html

 

24k animals total  - which means almost a third of the creature count would be penned by players currently online. It doesn't account for offline players either - exodus has 264 premium players currently - so if you want to see the real impact, re-do the math there :P

 

(hint; horses would no longer give birth to baby foals - you'd be waaaaay over the cap even if only a fifth of the premiums would do this)

 

Edited by Alyeska

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To be fair, you travel around exodus and there are many deeds with off deed animal pens, some are fences, others are buildings, this is all done to keep those ratios down, if you are breeding a lot of horses then a villager wants to go on a milk binge, there is no way you going to be able to stuff all those cows and sheep on the deed and not blow your ratio out of the sky.

 

Since people are already breeding more numbers than the ratio of there deeds by using off deed animal storage systems, I don't think it would make much difference in the end anyways.

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On 24. 1. 2017 at 9:31 PM, Attenia said:

No, I don't keep all that I raise, just those for my breeding and animal collection. Here are my calculations:

 

130 for every animal of every condition, x2 because animals sometimes randomly die for no reason, so there needs to be a spare at all times

10 breeding bison for 5 speed

8 breeding unicorns for 5 speed

8 breeding cows/bulls for 5 speed

16 breeding horses for 5 speed (1 pair of each colour)

10 breeding hell horses for 5 speed

24 of all the other tameable/dominate-able animals that don't have conditions x2 because of random dying

10 black sheep herd

Napoleons: 8

New year's narwhals: 7

Great horned goose: 3

Butters: 10

Aquaphobic swans: 12

15 herd of 5 speed horses for my alliance to take from

15 herd of 5 speed hell horses for my alliance to take from

12herd of 5 speed bison for my alliance to take from

10 herd of 5 speed unicorns for my alliance to take from (for when they can wear gear)

10 herd of 5 speed cows/bulls for my alliance to take from

Extra champion dog pen: 15

Extra champion deer herd: 15

Extra tortoise pen: 10

Random other animals that wander onto this gigantic deed and mess with the ratio: 50

Future Christmas animals: 100

Total: 650

 

I don't have all of these yet, but my collection is coming on along well and grows all the time. I have thought of keeping animals off deed, but that has the two huge disadvantages of requiring constant repairing for all the fences, and being susceptible to being bashed/picked by other players.

 

sorry, but I'm sure you seriously need consultation with your doctor-specialist

perhaps private WU server can be safe place for your obsession

 

-1 we do not need our servers lagged by hoards of animals again

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Yea we have ratios for a reason. I cleaned a fallen deed yesterday of horses that hadnt escaped yet. They had a huge area deeded and penned. All they did was breed and put in the pastures. Didn't kill off low speed or sick animals. Kept them all and rebred them. So many bad traits. I killed about 50 horses in pasture area alone. Most had 1 or more bad traits. Almost all were 4speed and below. That's not including the 2x1 pens I'm opening to kill off bad horses and take ok ones for people on server. That's another 70 or so horses. That many animals on server with no use but to breed and collect is bad. Huge lag and messes with spawn rates. Its no wonder Cele steppes were in such bad shape for spawns. Most people don't collect animals like you are planning. Ratios need a little reworking but not what you are asking. If you want to breed, do as others suggested. Keep breeders in deed. Kill off any bad traited. If you dont feel safe with off beed pens, build off deed buildings. We can plant thatch inside and enchant grass inside. They are safer and can't be stolen by bashing a fence. good luck but be prepared for lag and wild creatures spawning to drop. 

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On 1/24/2017 at 1:57 PM, Attenia said:

 I understand that having a lot of animals may make a certain deed laggy, but that should be for the deed owner and village members to decide if they are willing to deal with.

 

I have to admire your ambition Attenia. ;)  Unfortunately, I don't think the lag would be limited to just your deed/village :unsure:  You'd be right that it's totally up to said village if that were the case though.

It sounds like you want one heck of a massive working ranch to fill the needs of everyone counting on you.  I think the spirit of what you're trying to accomplish is feasible, just maybe not at the scale you're thinking.  It sounds like Wurm is more set up (currently) to accommodate a number of smaller ranches and farms supplying their community.  Someone might focus on cattle, another on horses, another on specialty horses (hell+unicorn), etc.

 

Kinda spreads out the opportunity for many people to have sizeable breeding operations while working with limited RL resources.

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-1 the ratio works pretty well as it is, giving a good trade-off between ability to keep a reasonable amount of animals and affecting server lag and spawns. 

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-1 I remember trying to ride past the Pristine Animal Sanctuary. Tons of horses and my computer would try to kill me. If you're holding animals for your alliance, why not have them share the burden? You breed em, they brush and feed them on their own deeds. 

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1 hour ago, NeeNee said:

my computer would try to kill me.

I hate to be the one to say this... but that might not be related to Wurm... :o

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Well, it was a very murdery computer, but thankfully, I have a less sentient one now. 

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I think the ratio should be tweaked up a bit, I never did much horse breeding till recently, and am finding my deed capping out with just around 150 horses, plus a few misc animals.

 

Lucky for me I have numerous deeds and will have to move one of my horse herds over, but be better for my alt to do the breeding in one location rather than jog back and forth between deeds.

 

Attenia does have some ambitious goals for pets though and her main deed is a crazy size already where she only needed a small area for her pens all the rest is just tying up wurmestate for a better deed ratio.

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One option not discussed, which is that if someone wants to increase the # of animals they can keep on a deed, they why not use the same function that was instituted for deeds with to many people?

 

You could check an option and double or triple the # of animals you could keep on deed but it would cost x2 times more coin.

 

This could be a functional option,  Or and I personally like this.

 

Add in the mechanic that branded animals have access to the faith bonuses of your deed.  So that as you go over the base populations, the deed healing bonus counters the chance of disease and miscarriage.

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