Shield training

[salahahdin 453]

2 hours ago, zigozag said:

Why?

Iirc increases damage you take, which may increase tick size.

[Holar 1,484]

Gained 1 point in less than hour this morning... I'm not sure if there was a ninja fix or what, but I had a 70ql shield fighting scorps and horses. Maybe RNG?? Dunno but I'm still getting the same gains as we speak now. 

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

On 26-1-2017 at 8:02 AM, LorenaMontana said:

Holar 

 

20-30 ql shield with botd/coc

 

Fight trolls with aggressive stance

 

High skill in no time

Holar try this

[Trokair 1]

So just thought I'd add my .5 cents to the conversation because it seems to be something that is being discussed.

 

I'm a new player, I know my skills are terrible and Wurm is hard, that is why I like it. But the shield skills, I just do not get the system.

 

I've been hunting to fight the regular mobs around. Spiders, bears, wolves etc. Tried Normal, which was worse, then went Defensive as I have the impression that that will increase my chances to block with the shield or at least gain some skill with it. Not having any problems with weapon/fighting gain so went there to try and get some skill gain since I have a shield equipped.

 

But I didn't. I almost never blocked. At all. I didn't partial block and gain skill or anything. I've spent days on it. And I was only able to grind out 0.12 doing this. It wasn't until some helpful neighbors instructed me on how to grind on non-aggressive animals in a pen by *not* fighting them did I get any gains.

 

I've spent a few hours with that method today and gained 2.5 which is great but the actual gains on actual fights starting from scratch are bad.

 

I'm sure there was a reason for the system, not sure what it was before and what changed to be honest but I'd at least like to add to the conversation that skill gain at the beginning is basically broken. I can kill huge spiders fine but the rate of blocking and skill gain is abysmal. People told me weapon smithing would be a horrible grind. Shield skills seem far worse from the bottom.

 

Edit: Details are important so I'm using a 30 ql small shield with 19 fighting, 20 defensive, 15 normal. I'm not looking to gain 20 shield in one day but I wasn't gaining anything and after several days grinding mobs looking at 1.12 small shield skill was a bit disheartening. I expect a large shield may block more often but I want to use a small and grinding it by not attacking a mob and just taking hits is really counter-intuitive. If it is just because I need much larger defensive skill that would be fine I guess I just expected to gain low level shield skill at around the same rate as other low level stuff.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Trokair
Additional information

[Holar 1,484]

On 1/29/2017 at 0:56 AM, Trokair said:

So just thought I'd add my .5 cents to the conversation because it seems to be something that is being discussed.

 

I'm a new player, I know my skills are terrible and Wurm is hard, that is why I like it. But the shield skills, I just do not get the system.

 

I've been hunting to fight the regular mobs around. Spiders, bears, wolves etc. Tried Normal, which was worse, then went Defensive as I have the impression that that will increase my chances to block with the shield or at least gain some skill with it. Not having any problems with weapon/fighting gain so went there to try and get some skill gain since I have a shield equipped.

 

But I didn't. I almost never blocked. At all. I didn't partial block and gain skill or anything. I've spent days on it. And I was only able to grind out 0.12 doing this. It wasn't until some helpful neighbors instructed me on how to grind on non-aggressive animals in a pen by *not* fighting them did I get any gains.

 

I've spent a few hours with that method today and gained 2.5 which is great but the actual gains on actual fights starting from scratch are bad.

 

I'm sure there was a reason for the system, not sure what it was before and what changed to be honest but I'd at least like to add to the conversation that skill gain at the beginning is basically broken. I can kill huge spiders fine but the rate of blocking and skill gain is abysmal. People told me weapon smithing would be a horrible grind. Shield skills seem far worse from the bottom.

 

Edit: Details are important so I'm using a 30 ql small shield with 19 fighting, 20 defensive, 15 normal. I'm not looking to gain 20 shield in one day but I wasn't gaining anything and after several days grinding mobs looking at 1.12 small shield skill was a bit disheartening. I expect a large shield may block more often but I want to use a small and grinding it by not attacking a mob and just taking hits is really counter-intuitive. If it is just because I need much larger defensive skill that would be fine I guess I just expected to gain low level shield skill at around the same rate as other low level stuff.

 

So normal fighting skill gain is bugged and needs to be looked at. I've found that once your past 50 shield skill fighting trolls is the only viable way to gain shield skill if your looking to hardcore grind it. Starting off new I would recommend trying to fight in aggressive at this point since normal is bugged. What you are doing at a lower level is fine, keep killing soft animals and gradually move into tougher things. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Holar

[Rocky 299]

The old way was the best.........there was no need for looking for trolls and co................

[Maximillian 155]

I hunt with 60-90ql shields and high skill and get far better then it use to be. edit: I fight all critters I fight in aggressive most of the time.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Maximillian

[armyskin 930]

On 1/28/2017 at 11:56 PM, Trokair said:

It wasn't until some helpful neighbors instructed me on how to grind on non-aggressive animals in a pen by *not* fighting them did I get any gains.

Such helpful neighbors telling you to do something we were informed could get you banned.

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

11 minutes ago, armyskin said:

Such helpful neighbors telling you to do something we were informed could get you banned.

They would have banned many if this was the case including myself, this was a legit way of skilling shields. Most wurmians trained their shield skills on penned animals.

[armyskin 930]

You will notice that the quote is coming from a new player and as such would have been given this guidance after the update that this entire thread is in regards to.

[Madt 1,178]

On 08/02/2017 at 3:39 AM, Maximillian said:

I hunt with 60-90ql shields and high skill and get far better then it use to be. edit: I fight all critters I fight in aggressive most of the time.

 

This is the complete opposite to what I've been experiencing.

 

It seems for me skilling in defensive with a <20ql shield gives the best gains I've seen since this update, but only off of trolls that I purposely take my time killing, sometimes targetting something else and letting the troll go to town on my shield while I don't hit back at all. And even then the gains aren't that terrific. Taking into consideration that it's just from trolls I don't think its really reasonable.

[Scribble 57]

You need shield skill to block, and you block based on shield skill. This makes shield training unnecessarily difficult at the early levels. Maybe make a separate training dummy to train shield skill to an extent.

 

[Benie 49]

On 2/12/2017 at 7:44 AM, Scribble said:

Maybe make a separate training dummy to train shield skill to an extent.

A training dummy won't attack you, though (as far as I remember).

 

Now, if you had an alt and were dual-clienting, you could make it spar with you. But I heard that won't even work.

[Scribble 57]

3 hours ago, Benie said:

A training dummy won't attack you, though (as far as I remember).

 

Now, if you had an alt and were dual-clienting, you could make it spar with you. But I heard that won't even work.

I meant being able to build one of those wooden spinning things that have sandbags hanging on the end of them. I'm not sure if those actually were a thing, but I remember seeing them in a fantasy game somewhere.

[Holar 1,484]

On 1/24/2017 at 2:11 PM, belthize said:

 

Not sure why belthize things is quoted

 

So based off of the past 2 weeks of hunting using a shield between 28ql-60ql with 90 coc I've seen decent gains. If I go out and can find trolls or bears (wait for the later post) in abundance I can get about .50 LMS in around 40 minutes sub 70. The reason I use bears and trolls as example because I notice more ticks from mobs that maul. 

 

In short use a medium quality shield with high coc and run with it. 

[belthize 438]

2 hours ago, Holar said:

 

Not sure why belthize things is quoted

 

 

Just the way it is.

[Angelklaine 4,266]

I've been having quote issues as well. I have a number of threads where quotes appear and cannot be removed. It's silly.

[zukapit 77]

aight I grinded LMS from 1-20 tonight, I did it with Normal Stance. Think i grinded for around 2-3 hours with sleep bonus mostly when i grouped mobs together. Im grinding wep skill so im killing everything. The gains seems bare-able with Sleepbonus, but slow as fck without. I like the idea of grinding shield with wep skill as youre gaining everything together. if it were not for this, honestly the style of gaining this sucks. why not have this and the penned animals for people who just want to gain shield skill.

[Propheteer 7,139]

Bumping this as we have done more testing and could probably use more discussion

 

We have pretty much come to the conclusion that at higher levels, e.g. 80+, the current system is faster.

 

Up until 50 or so however, it is much much slower. Like, to the point where pentraining and parrying with a longsword is much faster, almost twice as fast.

[Psalamon 201]

On ‎2017‎-‎01‎-‎23 at 7:53 AM, Holar said:

Well I must be doing something incredibly wrong or I need to hike myself to freedom for the ultimate gains.. 

no I think you are quite on par .. my shield skill never went much above 16 and my fighting skill was over 70 get that ... and I was shield bashing as well... I think those other guys are full of it to be honest .. it is imbalanced..

[Retrograde 12,013]

8 hours ago, Propheteer said:

Bumping this as we have done more testing and could probably use more discussion

 

We have pretty much come to the conclusion that at higher levels, e.g. 80+, the current system is faster.

 

Up until 50 or so however, it is much much slower. Like, to the point where pentraining and parrying with a longsword is much faster, almost twice as fast.

If you've done more testing could you provide the following

 

Parry rate to tick rate, how often do you parry and gain (or not gain) a tick? Please also reference skill with this

 

Fighting stance, creatures fought, whether you;re including travel time in deciding the time factor.

 

All these things will play an important part, low tick rate compared to parry means its too easy to parry, low parry rate means its too difficult.

 

And if you're including travel time overal then there's not much we can do, the old system isn't coming back.

[salahahdin 453]

9 hours ago, Propheteer said:

Bumping this as we have done more testing and could probably use more discussion

 

We have pretty much come to the conclusion that at higher levels, e.g. 80+, the current system is faster.

 

Up until 50 or so however, it is much much slower. Like, to the point where pentraining and parrying with a longsword is much faster, almost twice as fast.

I've done personal testing, you need a coc shield of exactly the right ql to fight a troll and parry about half the time. I've been able to get .12 shield skill from a single troll if i cheese it without even stacking sb

 

Edit: this does require bringing like 3 shields hunting, .12 was the most I ever got off 1 troll before killing it , my rate gain vs weapon skill genociding everything within a few km of my xan deed is shield gain is now TWICE as fast as weapon gain. Overall weapon skill is still monstrously slow

Edited May 4, 2017 by salahahdin

[zeeph 37]

8 hours ago, Propheteer said:

Bumping this as we have done more testing and could probably use more discussion

 

We have pretty much come to the conclusion that at higher levels, e.g. 80+, the current system is faster.

 

Up until 50 or so however, it is much much slower. Like, to the point where pentraining and parrying with a longsword is much faster, almost twice as fast.

 

shield gain seams now fine for me. i do raise faster my shield than my weapon skill. iam rly happy that they changed the system, because pen training was no fun.

tbh i didnt saw much difference in skillgain when using aggresive stance, or normal stance. it just raised fine with both stances.

[Propheteer 7,139]

16 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

If you've done more testing could you provide the following

 

Parry rate to tick rate, how often do you parry and gain (or not gain) a tick? Please also reference skill with this

 

Fighting stance, creatures fought, whether you;re including travel time in deciding the time factor.

 

All these things will play an important part, low tick rate compared to parry means its too easy to parry, low parry rate means its too difficult.

 

And if you're including travel time overal then there's not much we can do, the old system isn't coming back.

I'll work on documenting everything, do you know of any tools that would be helpful for this?

[hemrzz 1,278]

so is it against the rules to shield train on a penned animals now? 

 

from my understanding the skill gain is only the first 15 mins right?? whats stopping you from rotating  around unless it isnt allowed?