Posted January 17, 2017 For the past week or so there's been an intermittent issue with one of Wurms peers. Below is a TCP traceroute from my machine to the Xanadu game server. I've masked out the first hops for privacy reasons, plus they're fairly low latency. notice starting at hop 11 at hetzner.de the 4+ second latency. Normally this is around 180 to 200ms but once they start having whatever malfarction is besetting them this spikes to 4 to 8 seconds. I realize dealing with peers is a hassle, especially when it's a peer of a hosting site but maybe you can rattle a cage or two. #traceroute -T 148.251.21.209 traceroute to 148.251.21.209 (148.251.21.209), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 x.x.x.x (1.2.3.4) 1.346 ms 1.517 ms 1.673 ms 2 x.x.x.x(1.2.3.5) 0.239 ms 0.244 ms 0.222 ms 3 x.x.x.x (1.2.3.6) 0.447 ms 0.524 ms 0.670 ms 4 x.x.x.x (1.2.3.7) 2.384 ms 2.383 ms 2.438 ms 5 x.x.x.x (1.2.3.8) 2.495 ms 2.481 ms 2.522 ms 6 dc-lax-agg6--unm.cenic.net (137.164.50.193) 25.625 ms 26.978 ms 26.967 ms 7 8-1-1-90.ear1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.35.156.65) 25.430 ms 26.013 ms 27.222 ms 8 ae-4-90.edge7.Frankfurt1.Level3.net (4.69.154.203) 172.357 ms 172.321 ms 172.285 ms 9 ae-4-90.edge7.Frankfurt1.Level3.net (4.69.154.203) 172.265 ms 172.355 ms 172.318 ms 10 62.67.34.118 (62.67.34.118) 193.095 ms 192.845 ms 192.921 ms 11 core-backbone-100g-fra.hetzner.de (80.255.15.122) 4946.235 ms 4946.767 ms 4946.691 ms 12 core1.hetzner.de (213.239.245.9) 4946.656 ms 4946.612 ms 4946.082 ms 13 * * * 14 ex9k2.rz20.hetzner.de (213.239.229.10) 897.207 ms 898.131 ms ex9k2.rz20.hetzner.de (213.239.229.14) 4982.891 ms 15 xanadu.game.wurmonline.com (148.251.21.209) 4982.870 ms 4993.432 ms * Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17, 2017 Yeah it's been a random ongoing issue for a couple years at least. Some people play 50/50 coin toss as to whether or not they can play without a proxy daily Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17, 2017 I get 16-30 second constant delay or spikes every 10 mins that last for 2-6 mins Unfortunately proxies are hit or miss too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, MrGARY said: Yeah it's been a random ongoing issue for a couple years at least. Some people play 50/50 coin toss as to whether or not they can play without a proxy daily This, though it has seemed worse lately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17, 2017 Best to do the following when you have issues: https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Pingplotter/en Submit your results to the DEVs, so they can complain. This is usually something which can be fixed by such a big company like hetzner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) It's fixable, just need the perseverance to stay with it. I've helped other folks deal with their providers and their peers in the past. It's popular to assume the providers don't care but the fact is they frequently don't have a clue what they're doing or how to tackle the problem (or even if one exists). There's zero reason for it to be a problem, and given the behavior my guess is a borked up asymmetric route or similar, ie it's human error in a config not some multi-million dollar infrastructure problem. Anyway, if the Wurm Devs want to look into it and start working up the food chain through Hetzner I'm happy to help. Edited January 17, 2017 by belthize Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Agreed. I'm from Germany as well and the last 2 weeks have been worse and worse. While my regular ping is between 10 and 30, which is great, despite stable internet connections, Wurm constantly gets delayed and connection is lost. In addition with other bugs, especially those on ships, it makes some parts of the game almost unplayable these days. Edited January 17, 2017 by Yldrania Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18, 2017 Hi all, We had issues with routing in the past, and I know max did a lot of work to address it, I'm not sure if this is the same instance, but I'll be speaking with him and seeing if we need to set up the same diagnostic thread as previous. If we do need to do this, we'll have a stickied thread up that will have full instructions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) I have started playing Wurm again rather actively in the past week or two and I'm noticing really bad lag too, often it just freezes for a minute or two or kicks me off, 99% of the time when logging in I sit there with water and nothing rendered for 30 seconds or so before it all rapidly loads, it looks like packet loss and the client gets confused. I only notice any connection issues with Wurm, my internet connections are good quality and no other websites or games ever lag for me. Using a VPN helps sometimes but Wurm still lags. Traceroutes and speedtests below: Tracing route to wild001.game.wurmonline.com [148.251.21.200] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 1 ms 2 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1 2 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms 10.20.22.111 3 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms per-pow-stg-csw2-tg-2-8.tpgi.com.au [202.7.180.129] 4 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms per-pow-stg-crt1-po-2.tpgi.com.au [202.7.190.101] 5 50 ms 54 ms 53 ms bri-nxg-alf-crt2-ge-1-0.tpgi.com.au [202.7.162.129] 6 53 ms 53 ms 59 ms 203.29.134-67.tpgi.com.au [203.29.134.67] 7 211 ms 211 ms 211 ms 100ge13-1.core1.sjc1.he.net [216.218.139.233] 8 248 ms 211 ms 214 ms 10ge7-2.core1.sjc2.he.net [72.52.92.118] 9 273 ms 274 ms 274 ms 100ge1-2.core1.nyc4.he.net [184.105.81.214] 10 349 ms 349 ms 349 ms 100ge4-1.core1.par2.he.net [184.105.81.78] 11 357 ms 364 ms 353 ms 100ge5-2.core1.fra1.he.net [72.52.92.14] 12 353 ms 353 ms 353 ms hetzner.fra.ecix.net [62.69.146.15] 13 357 ms 357 ms 357 ms core23.hetzner.de [213.239.203.154] 14 358 ms 358 ms 373 ms ex9k2.rz20.hetzner.de [213.239.229.10] 15 358 ms 355 ms 355 ms wild001.game.wurmonline.com [148.251.21.200] Trace complete. It does it on my second internet connection too. Tracing route to wild001.game.wurmonline.com [148.251.21.200] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms *** 2 * * * Request timed out. 3 * * * Request timed out. 4 39 ms 38 ms 27 ms Bundle-Ether14.wel-edge901.perth.telstra.net [139.130.16.49] 5 38 ms 31 ms 40 ms bundle-ether6.wel-core3.perth.telstra.net [203.50.6.214] 6 76 ms 67 ms 51 ms bundle-ether7.fli-core1.adelaide.telstra.net [203.50.11.18] 7 89 ms 59 ms 67 ms bundle-ether9.win-core10.melbourne.telstra.net [203.50.11.91] 8 92 ms 80 ms 79 ms bundle-ether12.ken-core10.sydney.telstra.net [203.50.11.122] 9 88 ms 88 ms 87 ms bundle-ether1.pad-gw11.sydney.telstra.net [203.50.6.61] 10 108 ms 95 ms 79 ms bundle-ether1.sydp-core04.sydney.reach.com [203.50.13.90] 11 264 ms 319 ms 318 ms i-52.tlot-core02.bx.telstraglobal.net [202.84.137.101] 12 400 ms 321 ms 395 ms i-0-4-0-8.tnrt-core01.bi.telstraglobal.net [202.40.149.173] 13 433 ms 399 ms 399 ms i-0-3-0-2.ulhc-core01.bx.telstraglobal.net [202.84.143.230] 14 366 ms 392 ms 366 ms 202.84.178.14 15 * * * Request timed out. 16 415 ms 399 ms 399 ms core24.hetzner.de [213.239.203.150] 17 439 ms 398 ms 399 ms ex9k2.rz20.hetzner.de [213.239.229.14] 18 439 ms 398 ms 400 ms wild001.game.wurmonline.com [148.251.21.200] Trace complete. Edited January 19, 2017 by Gavin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19, 2017 I too experience this same issue with similar trace route and ping results. Southeast coast USA here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19, 2017 Had a friend from South Africa tell me his ping is fine, so it's not everyone. But it does seem to be very widespread. Yesterday I've had multiple interactions with people where I apologized for temporarily losing connection, and they responded that they had also just lost connection. There has to be something wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19, 2017 I'm in the US, when I started playing 2 months ago I never had any lag at all maybe 50ms to 100ms at all times.. but in the past week or 2 if I try to connect to the game directly from my IP I instantly get a 5-30 seconds delay from the moment I click the wurm icon... until the launcher pops up, then on the logging and when I get in game it takes forever to load anything within the game... the work around I found to bring the ms back to 50-100 was to use a VPN. When I connect using my VPN in the same state I live in I have no issue whatsoever.. so it's very irritating that the only way I can play wurm now is having my VPN on at all times.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20, 2017 Thing is its not new and they know its broken, seems like they bandaid it and every time they patch it for one line of traffic it breaks another line it has been going on since wurm was moved to that host years ago Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, SmeJack said: Thing is its not new and they know its broken, seems like they bandaid it and every time they patch it for one line of traffic it breaks another line it has been going on since wurm was moved to that host years ago Hetzner run a crap network, to put it nicely. Basically in network planning terms there are two types of network the first and most common is "hot potato" routing which essentially means dump traffic out of your network as soon as you can where it's cheapest regardless of how it effects the users or "cold potato" routing on the other hand means carry it in your network as close to the destination as possible, this is obviously the most expensive but all of the good providers do this, why do you think companies like Google, Amazon, Netflix, Akamai etc have network presence in literally every major city on the planet? It's because it drastically improves network performance and is worth the effort and expense to do it. Hetzner run a classic hot potato network, their network is almost entirely in Germany and Netherlands, the only other place they maintain network is Austria and let's be honest that might as well be Germany. They only peer at ECIX, AMSIX and DECIX where they dump the majority of their traffic (Frankfurt and Amsterdam), this means for many people on the other side of the world before your data gets to Wurm it's probably gone through 10 other networks so there are heaps of potential congestion points or networks that don't really care about the path your data takes. The most likely thing however for people that far away is that your network will reach them via transit; they only maintain transit connectivity in Germany and it's with 3 carriers: NTT, GTT and TATA. NTT isn't too bad, their network is actually good quality but they have 3x the connectivity they have with NTT to GTT and TATA, so most of their traffic heads out via GTT or TATA, GTT is TERRIBLE, they constantly gobble up other transit companies and make a complete mess of their network to save money, meanwhile the customers of the companies they acquired are locked into several year contracts they can't cancel so have no choice but to keep paying the same price they were previously paying for a premium service for terrible service, they are so bad that at one point another major carrier got so frustrated at unresolved issues that they printed every report of routing/latency issues for the past month, it filled SEVERAL TRUCKS and they dropped it at the CEO's door step, nothing was done still. Another company posted this video of just 24 hours of complaints lodged with GTT that are all ignored http://d.pr/v/1fjQN/GsNuSAPG. Then there is TATA who are involved daily in peering disputes (read: where they purposely overload interconnections to extort the receiving end to pay them for transit or suffer degraded service) - they extorted Netflix for millions of dollars recently as an example, TATA's Mumbai - Singapore route is congested like 90% of the day, they also have a single 10Gbps interconnect to Comcast (the largest US cable provider, largest internet provider in the world iirc too) that is overloaded literally 100% of the time but they won't upgrade it because they want Comcast to pay for transit, their network is totally cooked to put it lightly - people only connect with them because they need connectivity to India and they maintain a virtual monopoly over access to India and other countries nearby. You'll notice no connectivity with any of the good providers like Level3, Telia, Hurricane Electric from Hetzner - even Cogent would be better and they are still really cheap, why? because Hetzner are too cheap. The only explanations I can think of is either hetzner don't care or similar to online.net is only targeting French customers (so local connectivity is the only concern), Hetzner are only targeting German customers who only care about local connectivity. Even OVH who are notoriously cheap maintain a global network with PoP's in South America, Australia, Asia, Canada etc etc same deal with Softlayer who are only a little more expensive, Leaseweb is an improvement too. Up until now Rolf has only gone with small DC's that more or less only have a 'local' network, if he really wants to improve peoples lag / gameplay experience playing Wurm the only way to move forward is to host it at a DC that maintains a global network, it wouldn't even cost that much more really - Hetzner isn't cheap TBH and I'd probably wager a provider like OVH would be similar in price if not cheaper, their entire network has DDOS protection too so Wurm wouldn't get ddossed on a regular basis any more - they even are opening a DC in Germany soon so you wouldn't have to physically move the servers very far. Edited January 20, 2017 by Gavin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20, 2017 Well put Gavin. I confess to not knowing a great deal about Hetzner but what you wrote rings true. I'll add that I see time and again communities (either gaming communities, provider clientele, towns or entire countries) who develop an 'ehh what're you going to do, networking sucks' kind of attitude. The truth is it's entirely possible to make a responsive and reliable network in the face of most any load. Customers should expect that or take their money elsewhere. Wurm is not so large that it can afford to lose customer base for something as simple as poor hosting. That's a solved problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Is anything happening to fix this? I just subscribed to the game two weeks ago and find it's unplayable 50% of the time. I'm talking about crippling lag where it takes 10-20 seconds to open a container. I would probably have been a long term subscriber but that is very unlikely now. This is a very bad experience for anyone. Edited January 22, 2017 by GaryV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22, 2017 6 hours ago, GaryV said: Is anything happening to fix this? I just subscribed to the game two weeks ago and find it's unplayable 50% of the time. I'm talking about crippling lag where it takes 10-20 seconds to open a container. I would probably have been a long term subscriber but that is very unlikely now. This is a very bad experience for anyone. Your issue may be something unrelated to the traffic lag. If it's constant there may be some settings you can change to increase your performace. Please start a new thread and put a copy of your console log in the post and explain what type of lag you see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) My routing got changed 45 minutes ago and since then I have dc'd three times unable to get back in for about 5 minutes or so each time. This is what happens everytime hetzner "fixes" something Edit: routing now back to normal and no dcs. who knows whats up with them Edited January 22, 2017 by MrGARY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Alectrys said: Your issue may be something unrelated to the traffic lag. If it's constant there may be some settings you can change to increase your performace. Please start a new thread and put a copy of your console log in the post and explain what type of lag you see. I said I have the issue 50% of the time and also said in this thread that my trace routes and pings point directly to the host in Germany like the others have noted. I believe I am in the right thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22, 2017 We usually have lag on xanadu but normally its minor to bad, but lately its been decent on the server. Until this last week or a bit more. Tracing route to xanadu.game.wurmonline.com [148.251.21.209] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254 2 22 ms 20 ms 21 ms dsl-servicio-l200.uninet.net.mx [200.38.193.226] 3 55 ms 55 ms 56 ms bb-dallas-stemmons-4-tge0-14-0-10.uninet.net.mx [201.125.12.82] 4 51 ms 51 ms 51 ms ix-ae-41-0.tcore2.DT8-Dallas.as6453.net [66.110.57.117] 5 174 ms 182 ms 236 ms if-ae-2-2.tcore1.DT8-Dallas.as6453.net [66.110.56.5] 6 176 ms 174 ms 174 ms if-ae-37-3.tcore1.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [66.198.154.68] 7 172 ms 172 ms * if-ae-2-2.tcore2.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.1] 8 174 ms 174 ms 175 ms if-ae-11-2.thar2.NJY-Newark.as6453.net [216.6.87.138] 9 170 ms * * if-ae-1-3.thar1.NJY-Newark.as6453.net [216.6.57.1] 10 172 ms * * if-ae-4-2.tcore1.L78-London.as6453.net [80.231.130.33] 11 * 172 ms 176 ms if-ae-3-6.tcore1.PYE-Paris.as6453.net [80.231.130.86] 12 172 ms 172 ms 172 ms if-ae-11-2.tcore1.PVU-Paris.as6453.net [80.231.153.49] 13 172 ms 172 ms 183 ms if-ae-9-2.tcore2.FNM-Frankfurt.as6453.net [195.219.87.13] 14 171 ms 171 ms 171 ms if-ae-4-2.tcore1.FR0-Frankfurt.as6453.net [195.219.87.18] 15 3025 ms 3056 ms 3089 ms 195.219.219.10 16 3093 ms 3145 ms 2996 ms core24.hetzner.de [213.239.203.150] 17 3048 ms 2992 ms 3036 ms ex9k2.rz20.hetzner.de [213.239.229.14] 18 3021 ms 3042 ms 3061 ms xanadu.game.wurmonline.com [148.251.21.209] The red marked on seems to belong to Tata, from what Gavin has stated it looks like there isn't much hope in getting it corrected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22, 2017 South East Coast, Australia. Lagging to the point of disconnecting. Game settings turned low. This started about two or three weeks ago, and makes the game unplayable at times. If there is a way to bandaid this, please let us know because I am not computer savvy and don't have any idea what to do to fix this issue. If the devs can fix it, please do so. Even not being able to play the game for a few days while things are moved (but then being able to play all the time because the game works) is better than not being able to play due to constant lagging and disconnects. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22, 2017 Fairyshine, if you are on windows you can try vpn unlimited (it gives 6 days trial) install it and then connect to the Luxembourg, Roost-Bissen server and open wurm and try to play. If you can play without lag and disconnects then you probably are having the same issue I am. I can bypass the problem using the vpn but it is seriously nutty having too. The other torrent friendly servers might work too but some of them route through the same router I was having issues with. France and Luxembourg work fine for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 24, 2017 As much as I am a fan of using torrents and all kinds of stuff, I feel like things like that should not be required of players in order to get a playable connection to any of the servers. In my honest opinion, with this issue being so glaringly obvious to so many people, my only suggestion would be to contact the server host about the issues and if no change is in sight, switch. The trouble of switching to another server host who can provide proper services (which in my opinion, each of them should), will be far lesser than the loss of players to an issue like this, and the trouble of trying to keep people happy with crappy server connections and nothing noticable being done about them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Yldrania said: As much as I am a fan of using torrents and all kinds of stuff, I feel like things like that should not be required of players in order to get a playable connection to any of the servers. In my honest opinion, with this issue being so glaringly obvious to so many people, my only suggestion would be to contact the server host about the issues and if no change is in sight, switch. The trouble of switching to another server host who can provide proper services (which in my opinion, each of them should), will be far lesser than the loss of players to an issue like this, and the trouble of trying to keep people happy with crappy server connections and nothing noticable being done about them. Promise you there is no better host than hetzner. Others will just make more problems, also hetzner provides a very good DDOS protection, which is priceless. My server has the same amount of players often more than deli, exo or the whole epic cluster, etc, and we are having almost no issues. Very stable and powerful connection, no noticeable lag most of the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Sklo:D said: Promise you there is no better host than hetzner. Others will just make more problems, also hetzner provides a very good DDOS protection, which is priceless. My server has the same amount of players often more than deli, exo or the whole epic cluster, etc, and we are having almost no issues. Very stable and powerful connection, no noticeable lag most of the time. Then I'm not sure what is going wrong, but if it works for others that only means it should be fixable in some way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
