Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) I feel like since retro said they are looking to be making changes to HOTA we should open a thread dedicated to discussing ideas so we can work towards changes that won't blind sight anyone and we can all enjoy. To start of the discussion Shankiest put forward a great idea on teamspeak, he proposes changing the capping mechanics of hota pillars to be more of a king of the hill style if you cap a pillar someone from your kingdom needs to stay within a certain distance of the pillar or it will auto neturalize it self 30 or something seconds later. Another suggestion to add on to the first was having it just spawn 4 pillars at the start instead of having a random amount to start and more spawning on pillar caps which can lead to 5+ pillars would defeat the purpose of a king of the hill style so that might need to be considered to. This last one I heard ages ago but I'll throw it in here to see what people think, but hota pillars can be a pain to find when in weird spots since they spawn pretty random on the zone they are in it might be nice to make them a bit more visible from a distance maybe a brighter light or maybe even a small beam sticking out. Which honestly would help with the 4 only pillar issue making HOTA hard to complete this way its more about people moving around and less about searching though I am sure there is plenty of downsides to be discussed. Please feel free to roast the ideas or add to them or just make completely new HOTA revamps up your self, this is for the benefit of Chaos as a whole so please try and keep it constructive even if your feedback is just keep HOTA 100% the same no trolling ty! Edited January 13, 2017 by Darklords Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) Something else to add as something for though. Hota is running out of space. We're getting a lot of new kingdoms. Everyone knows that to participate at hota pretty much requires a deed right at the edges of the hota. Not having one is practically suicide and hardly noone would go. Im blank for ideas, but something needs to be done to allow new kingdoms to contest hota. Maybe removing hunters lodge as a temporary fix for the current new kingdoms, considering it serves almost 0 purpose. Or making hota a big island and require sailing so people cant place hota deeds and all can attend. (Or hey a full map reset yeah i like that) Idk. completely up for ideas, as im blank. Im gonna use DD as an example cuz theyve voiced their complaints, if they are against me saying this they can pm me and ill remove it. But currently, DD feels like they are blocked out of hota. Their only reliable method of pvping is when enemies come to their deed or theyre on a boat. They're a smaller kingdom, its not reasonable to tell them "If you want pvp, you have to ride right by the enemy deeds in place that are blocking you from getting to hota, and while they have a safe place to return to, you wont" Im all for giving the smaller groups a chance. The easier it is for people to come to hota, the easier it is for a fight to happen. Edited January 13, 2017 by Kendall17 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) Another idea brought up is to add some kind of participation system to it like rifts, if you manage to say hold a pillar for 15 mins during a hota but ended up getting pushed off and lose it but gave a fair try to hold a pillar or 2 you will still get a reward although much lesser than the winner. I'm sure there is other ways like scoring a kill on an enemy kingdom during a hota that should add to it but it might give people with lesser numbers a chance to try and compete for even the smaller reward if they can manage to snag a kill or 2 or secure and hold a pillar for awhile. A side note, this should be a kingdom wide participation point not per person in this example. Edited January 13, 2017 by Darklords Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 How would smaller kingdoms be able to win king of hill style? Death trap Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 im the best, they should just listen to me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 Okay so to whoever even suggested the trees; what gives them authority for their suggestion to come through with no problem? Make a poll dedicated to the suggestions that people bring up. If someone wants trees, then either tell them to make a suggestion poll or have a staff member do it. Look at the suggestion thread, there are thousands of suggestions and not even 1/4 of them have been implemented. But when ONE person suggests that we put trees on the HotA when they do not even participate in HotA because there are no trees, then they get what they want. There is a fine line drawn between 'Making a Suggestion and getting others opinions' versus 'Oh let's have ONE person PM a staff member to implement trees into the HotA'. Someone needs to get to the bottom of why this happened like this. GET EVERYONE'S OPINION, NOT ONE PERSON. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) In all honestly we dont even know anyone suggested it. The staff said following this that the hota is "their area" that they can do whatever they want to it and that we players have no say to it. To that i say ######. Are you the ones playing? Are you the ones spending your time or setting your alarms in the middle of your sleep to wake up and come to this event? Are you the ones spending your money to set up deeds allowing yourself to participate in this event? Are you the ones risking the gear you either spent time to make, spent money to buy, or earned through pvp? HoTA is NOT your zone. NOTHING is your zone. Unless you play. It is not your zone. Edited January 13, 2017 by Kendall17 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 35 minutes ago, Kendall17 said: Something else to add as something for though. Hota is running out of space. We're getting a lot of new kingdoms. Everyone knows that to participate at hota pretty much requires a deed right at the edges of the hota. Not having one is practically suicide and hardly noone would go. Im blank for ideas, but something needs to be done to allow new kingdoms to contest hota. Maybe removing hunters lodge as a temporary fix for the current new kingdoms, considering it serves almost 0 purpose. Or making hota a big island and require sailing so people cant place hota deeds and all can attend. (Or hey a full map reset yeah i like that) Idk. completely up for ideas, as im blank. Im gonna use DD as an example cuz theyve voiced their complaints, if they are against me saying this they can pm me and ill remove it. But currently, DD feels like they are blocked out of hota. Their only reliable method of pvping is when enemies come to their deed or theyre on a boat. They're a smaller kingdom, its not reasonable to tell them "If you want pvp, you have to ride right by the enemy deeds in place that are blocking you from getting to hota, and while they have a safe place to return to, you wont" Im all for giving the smaller groups a chance. The easier it is for people to come to hota, the easier it is for a fight to happen. It wasn't our choice where DD placed their deed. Should have made it somewhere else near HotA. It's kind of first come first serve, or fight for the land. That is what PvP is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Kendall17 said: In all honestly we dont even know anyone suggested it. The staff said following this that the hota is "their area" that they can do whatever they want to it and that we players have no say to it. To that i say ######. Are you the ones playing? Are you the ones spending your time or setting your alarms in the middle of your sleep to wake up and come to this event? Are you the ones spending your money to set up deeds allowing yourself to participate in this event? Are you the ones risking the gear you either spent time to make, spent money to buy, or earned through pvp? HoTA is NOT your zone. NOTHING is your zone. Unless you play. It is not your zone. Someone did suggest it, and that's why lots of people are pissed. If one person states their opinion and gets what they asked for, but if several people over a course of several years ask repeatedly for change and it does not happen, don't you think we have a right to be pissed? Yeah, I agree. The staff will do what they want, but expect to lose players then. Epic fought this for several years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Wimble said: Someone did suggest it, and that's why lots of people are pissed. If one person states their opinion and gets what they asked for, but if several people over a course of several years ask repeatedly for change and it does not happen, don't you think we have a right to be pissed? Yeah, I agree. The staff will do what they want, but expect to lose players then. Epic fought this for several years. Where are you getting your info that someone suggested it? Did the staff tell you this? Either way the entire server should be consulted i agree Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 What I would also suggest, The staff truly should try play on pvp server again. Hell even spawn yourself a decent account so you can join in. Rotate with each kingdom get idea what each one struggles with current mechanics/how they pvp. The issue right now is trying inform staff whats good and bad for pvp mechanics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 I'm miswording that, someone was in a private message with a staff member when it was brought about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 What bothers me the most is the knee jerk reaction to make changes to HOTA when for the past 5 years its been dominated by 1 kingdom... This is the first time in HOTA's history that 4 kingdoms have been seen to cap a pillar. 4 out of 7 kingdoms is damn good in hindsight. For the first time since HOTA has been introduced its actually seen a bit of contending and some stalemate with a bit of tug of war. Can there be good ideas implemented to HOTA im sure there can be, but trees is not 1 of them thats for sure. There are already inabilities in HOTA that keep the area a wide open playground for everyone. One of the ideas i have always been in favor of is making more then 1 HOTA location and try best to position them in areas where all kingdoms have a chance to reach them. Current location, one location in southwest desert area perhaps, and 1 in the northishwest area kinda like a triangle formation for all the locations. Then you will have a better chance for other kingdoms to partake depending on the spawn location for HOTA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) @MaurizioAMI understand your idea for more than one hota, but i just dont think the current population would support it. Now if chaos had hundreds of players sure it'd be cool, but right now i dont see it as plausible Edited January 13, 2017 by Kendall17 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 57 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said: Its pointless to even post actual constructive criticism. The wurm team cant handle truth and this is the reason why people get Fing pissed about shat changes like this. If they want real suggestions they know its as simple as making a post and ask. Taking a suggestion from a private PM and making a change like that is pure BS. The revert is first not perfect, but luckily reverted or else we would have been EPIC 2.0. So true. It won't hurt to try. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 Can we start off by bulldozing every deed or landmark within 75 tiles of HoTA. Then making it a no build zone. The distance that deeds are and can be right now to HoTA is still a massive issue. It's always been the main issue that HoTA has failed. Give people room to get there. Having a deed right at the edge of HoTA is the most BS part about HoTA. It's an insane advantage that nobody should have. If my horse can be archered while I'm in HoTA from someone who is on deed. There is something seriously wrong with a so called "Open Field PvP event." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 I would just say were are not mad or bitter lol we arent complaining, we would love to be part of hota, but risk vs reward right now with our positiong... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 LOL It is a sandbox, hota should not be regulated by player gm's who make changes on there whims to suit there needs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Samusen said: Can we start off by bulldozing every deed or landmark within 75 tiles of HoTA. Then making it a no build zone. The distance that deeds are and can be right now to HoTA is still a massive issue. It's always been the main issue that HoTA has failed. Give people room to get there. Having a deed right at the edge of HoTA is the most BS part about HoTA. It's an insane advantage that nobody should have. If my horse can be archered while I'm in HoTA from someone who is on deed. There is something seriously wrong with a so called "Open Field PvP event." If you don't want an enemy deed next to HOTA, guess what, you can try to remove it (its actually part of the game). Terraforming is what makes wurm PVP so dynamic, asking the gms to do it for you is just weak. If you choose not to play all facets of the game please don't complain when other's do. There is always going to be an edge to HOTA unless you dedicate an entire server to it, so your request for extra tiles around it is completely unnecessary. As for an idea to improve hota, how about making the pillars spawn randomly around the map, like 1 spawns every few minutes till a side gets 4? There will be no edge to hota then, the entire server comes into play. You could also increase the number of pillars needed to win based on kingdom population at the time, so if you have 20 people on you need 6 or 8 pillars compared to a smaller group that would only need 4. Instead of pillars how about you hunt the enemy kingdom's creature, ie Hyena, boar, anaconda, gorilla etc. Buff them up to rift boss level of difficulty for the event. Then to win hota you have to both protect your lands and visit the enemy's. So easy to make HOTA fun and fair. Edited January 13, 2017 by madnezz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) Giving us more statue colours would be nice while they're at it. Edited January 13, 2017 by Rudie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ramaj said: How would smaller kingdoms be able to win king of hill style? Death trap the way I looked at it was more of this puts the big kingdom more of disadvantage than smaller. If there are 15 vs 10. In order for the big group to win they have to hold all 4 at same time. Thats means at least 3 are dedicated else where holding the pillars.While the smaller kingdom is trying hold final pillar to be capped. it is now 12vs10 for a moment this doesn't mean the other 3 won't come to to join in a brawl but also gives you time to do something/feed back if they are leaving. If they left the pillar it would nofity you its been neutralize meaning they decided something else was more important than dedicating that person to a pillar like a flank. Information is everything in my opinion for fights. While this is all happening the smaller group now has decide whether stand their ground and hope they can win a brawl before the rest arrive or send people to go push the lone defenders away/flank them while they are alone/smaller. Another scenario be what usually happens bigger kingdom is free to roam and continues find pillars but now they have leave at least 1 person to maintain it. This gives smaller group a chance create an advantage of trying pick off the lone guy or create enough pressure that they need keep more people at pillar making the group more split. Again now the decision of the smaller group to either push the group off the pillar before the others looking for pillars can return in time or wait it out for more pillars be found forcing another member to sit on pillar unable be there instantly when the fight starts. Another scenario Ebo is holding last pillar crusaders need it but sometimes a third kingdom with not many people tries hota. that lone defender guarding a pillar is going need help push 2-3 that are coming from behind. The bigger kingdom now needs decide to either lower their count at the frontline to ensure they secure that pillar or back off and strengthen the ones they have. I probably explained this poorly but the main idea is basically in order for the already dominant force to win they are forced to split up more people and gives the smaller kingdom a chance to pick off a smaller group needing defend the pillar. As for how smaller kingdom wins well it doesn't ###### them over at all. If they weren't going win before cause of numbers now when the kingdom bigger clearly able roam around is forced to put some on guard duty is lowering their frontline versus before where 1 person could cap and rest stayed on frontline. There are now just more chances for the smaller group to create an advantage. Bigger group is forced to send some people away to ensure the win risking themselves of not getting help for a while as the hota is quite massive. Most likely the bigger group would still win but this is just a way make more situations where smaller group could create advantages versus before they were just stuck looking at the full force of the bigger kingdom unable to anything. As well this prevents late night 1 man hota wins. You now need up to 4 people (depending how long you can stay out of pillar influence to reach another before first one neutralizes) The only way smaller kingdoms before won hota was because the bigger group arrived late and they are capping last one. or Bigger group is hiding somewhere and gambling they will roam by and willing take a hota loss for kills. (happened recently to ebo too) As well smaller group is somehow able kill off the bigger one in a brawl which could be done even easier if there are some forced guard a pillar till a fight starts. Smaller kingdoms are already getting crushed by bigger groups at hota. This just gives more chances to the smaller kingdom to create something. this of course assuming both sides want win hota. One could just be here for kills and say ###### pillars and rush a lone guard. but that already happens, people have waited for the person capping pillars to pass by their trap and then just kill him. Another argument could be if the smaller kingdom is so small already like 5. So they are all pretty much split up and easy pickings for the bigger kingdom. Its the only negative I can think of but same time there should still be risk to winning a hota and before where one could just do a suicide run and try cap all 4 which is bull ###### imo. We shouldn't reward 1 doing a suicide cap for the rest sitting somewhere safe. EDIT: i didn't put my heart into revising it into a smooth reading sorry but just give more info how king of a hill style pillars could favor smaller kingdom EDIT:TLDR the smaller kingdoms now have better chance force the biggest kingdom to split into groups. The more kingdoms that come to hota the more split the biggest group has to be to win hota. Edited January 13, 2017 by shankiest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 42 minutes ago, madnezz said: If you don't want an enemy deed next to HOTA, guess what, you can try to remove it (its actually part of the game). Terraforming is what makes wurm PVP so dynamic, asking the gms to do it for you is just weak. There is always going to be an edge to HOTA unless you dedicate an entire server to it so your request for extra tiles around it is completely unnecessary. If you choose not to play all facets of the game then please don't complain when other's do. I think you misunderstood this thread. This thread is how can we improve HoTA, that means for everyone. Not just for people who live on the border of the current HoTA. I know it's hard to understand, why don't we just bulldoze everyone and put our own deeds there? It's never a question of if we can when it comes to a suggestion thread. It comes down to the basis of if we as players should have the mechanical ability in game to do so. I was well aware before this thread that I could assemble a group of players to attack and raid a deed. This thread how ever is about benefiting everyone on Chaos, not just my kingdom. So let's keep that in mind when replying because I'm advocating for everyone to get in and do HoTA. There will always indeed be an edge to the HoTA. Where you seem to have misunderstood me is that. I want to be able to cap a pillar, on equal ground. If the person attacking me is 20 tiles from a deed where they can hide and heal up that isn't equal ground. Now I'm sure you'll come full circle "why don't you just raid his deed." Again the question is, should I mechanically have to in a scenario that is geared towards creating pvp content. I'm all for a dedicated HoTA server, I threw that up forever ago and it was shot down. It actually isn't unnecessary, if we had a large and properly expanded no build zone around the HoTA. It would have kept HoTA alive without player regulation and intervention. Which again comes back to the same mechanical suggestion that I proposed. Will HoTA borders that are big enough for everyone to get into and enjoy the content make it more appealing and feasible for the smaller kingdom player base. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 After what happened to the last Elevation Hota I'm against them removing deeds for fear of giant (P)Flateaus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13, 2017 the biggest problem with king of the hill style will mean that the zerg will always win, yes you might have a chance to pick off a player remaining at the pillar but groups will just get bigger to be able to spread out more. The devs failed to listen long ago when they had a chance to make hota constantly changing location and now its just going to be hard to perfectly balance. They removed building in hota so its everyone's playground now which is good. No one can use the excuse of deeds being to close, we have a deed right there and sometimes we are unable to win it, but we try to play some tug of war if we have anyone on for it. Look at Panda they are right next to it and THEY WONT COME OUT. I have been utterly alone in their local with 3 or 4 of them and they end up running away when in reality im like oh shat i gotta get outta here. As for DD or anyone bit further away, there are some good sailboat landing locations they could work from as well as other areas. In the recent stalemates we have had vs Crusaders each group is out of their deeds and each group is reluctant to go head on at times not knowing what to expect. @Samusenif they wanted to fix the issue of building to close that should have and needed to be done a long time ago... Today is not the time to start bulldozing peoples work or spent money because some find it unfair. I had complained about static spawning hota for 5 years now and not a single thing has ever been done about it. Also even with a border deed that does not mean you win, look at our wins and that proves it. Setting your alarm clock is important, dedication to be out there is important. Spending money or playing the games politics is important when it comes to positioning yourself/your kingdom. Making diplomatic deals with kingdoms is a possibility and this is a sandbox game which should have that type of stuff going on. Having gm interaction at this point would be the unfair part for those who have done everything to position themselves where they may be today. If you want to talk about how HOTA can function slightly differently in order to make it a bit more appealing to a smaller group that would be great and probably what is needed. If you want to talk about more HOTA type games spawning on server in other locations that is great too, but changing the sand in the sandbox after the many years its been this way is a bit ridiculous. Im still all for dynamic HOTA locations and im saying that with a deed just outside of it, but messing with the sandbox players created would be the unfair part. I would also like to comment i have not seen a single Pillar within closer then 20 tiles from our deed. Most of the towers i have capped have been to be honest in the northern half of Hota if you believe it or not Fact is, this past month is the first time in HOTA history that it has seen the most amount of kingdoms cap a pillar during the same HOTA... That says something weather you accept it or not. And part of that is due to the no build changes inside of HOTA which is fine as that allows for an open playground. It allows for contesting of pillars and setting up traps as well when multi kingdoms are in attendance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites