Theonis

Name and Shame: Consolidated

177 posts in this topic

This is the time when a moderator should, instead of locking the thread, weed out the shills, so the thread can serve its intended purpose.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or perhaps it should be deleted as it is unfair someone's personal opinion is being used to name and shame people in a thread who some may think is official.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a thread started by a player that has no title whatsoever.  Why would anyone think this is official?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/04/2017 at 4:31 PM, rixk said:

Maurizios topic should be opened actually.. I don't really get why this was even closed.. Yes, there was load of irrelevant stuff there, but thats what moderating means.. keep the topic on track, instead simply pressing the button to close topic.

 

On 10/04/2017 at 6:10 PM, Corsan said:

 

So, because one person on staff (Which some of on this game is recruited from the player-base, and therefore has the very real possibility of being a friend of someone who is accused) decided they didn't like what was going on in a thread...a person shouldn't be allowed to confront their accuser, or present their side of a story, and should just accept the community hatred/possible effects to their business/even more griefing/harassment, and remove themselves from the game even if they maybe did no wrong?

I've seen people brag on Wurm Freedom chat about how they had moderation powers and proceeded to use them specifically to cause more harm/create more tears so they could enjoy them.

I'm not even discussing that specific incident. I'm referring to the whole point behind this thread...the ability to compile a list of 'Bad' people (In someone's eyes.) so as to thwart possible future happenings.

 

This thread is sounding more like online bullying to me than a useful form of 'punishment'. It gives a bad impression, and rarely actually helps a community.

But yes, continue on with your compilation of names. It's people that use threads like this to 'out' someone that are often the people who should be avoided. Let us all know who you are. It's quite useful in that respect...

 

I feel like I should weigh in here.

Rixk, we moderated that thread as we would any other thread. If it devolves into a "he said, she said", and attacks on another person, we will close it as the topic has clearly run its course and serves no useful purpose at that point.

 

Corsan, I assure you that that was not the case. The decision to close the thread was not an individual decision, rather it was a team decision. Moving on to address your other point, if you see any member of the team doing so, please do have a word with their Lead as soon as you can. (Myself for the forum team, Shrimpiie for CA's and CM's, Retrograde for CRA's, and Enki for GM's and other Leads.)

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Firestarter said:

 

 

I feel like I should weigh in here.

Rixk, we moderated that thread as we would any other thread. If it devolves into a "he said, she said", and attacks on another person, we will close it as the topic has clearly run its course and serves no useful purpose at that point.

 

I appreciate the answer.. You have to understand tho, the topic runs out, when the victim get their stuff back and/or justice. Right now in most cases, where the players need help while having suffered real monetary losses through other players actions, the staff just ignores it and gives them a finger.

 

Forum is the ONLY option for to keep pressure on someone and closing the topics/ignoring the problems is simply taking sides of the offenders by helping to bury everything.

One example is the topic a while ago, where a dragon was blatantly stolen by JK.. the topic eventually lead to the moment, where JK leadership was talking about compensation.. then topic was closed and that was it.. last I heard no compensation etc was given for that.

 

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, rixk said:

Forum is the ONLY option for to keep pressure on someone and closing the topics/ignoring the problems is simply taking sides of the offenders by helping to bury everything.

I agree with this.

The problem really stems from the fact that the "name and shame" threads are always posted in Town Square. This is the "face of the game" forum wise, so to speak, so it's understandable that the team tries to keep it tidy.

There's a very simple fix, really. It's been suggested before, plenty of times. There needs to be a Freedom subforum that is lightly moderated (like how the 'Theater' [chaos/epic] subforum is, and how the 'Tar Pit' subforum used to be). Bury all the name and shame threads there. meanwhile keeping the face of the game pretty. Make it forum members view only, so that guests won't even know it's there.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, As_I_Decay said:

Make it forum members view only, so that guests won't even know it's there.

*pops head into thread*

Sorry to butt in here but I'd say make it -in-game-premium player only.

 

Lastly, I like that the OP of this thread includes a small summary of events to let people draw their own conclusion.  Might suggest linking any relevant discussions(if not already done).  Ultimately, this thread is informational, not judge-jury-executioner.  Individuals can quickly check this thread, if the name they're looking up is there, they draw their own conclusion of how to best proceed based on information presented.

 

*slowly backs away, and out*

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a player name russwood. he say that is work can happened to make silver. I got where he say to use and was stuck inside. locked to me gate and say I stuck and needs suicide. that where gate owned [04:49:11] Owner:Russwoods[04:49:11] -----------------[04:49:11] You see a gate with a lock. The lock is of poor quality.[04:49:11] It is locked. and keep it locked for suicide only and jokes. he say my mistake is made and my name cromlink is deleted now and I can not logon. I find this forum site where searched word = banned and why he can do that for me. always name used cromlink online and not other for deleted and not play other names. for 10hr playing for and quit now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cromlink, You can get a GM to teleport you out of there by typing /support I think it is. And can file a complaint against him for griefing. Which is against the game rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like he got banned for getting stuck in a trap by Russwoods, if that's true that's pretty messed up. That english though.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt he got banned for playing for 10 hrs. My guess is he can't explain it properly. Nothing a GM can't solve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No he dont get ban but guy who save him via pruning hedges...  sad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Wondering if Willieman is worth adding:

- Stole a Unique from Luttuosa, in the worst possible way
- Tried to downplay everything and lying until, after realizing the truth, his own kingdom turned against him
- Apologized to us only after being forced to do so
- Promised to reimburse Luttuosa for the things he has stolen, even getting helped from his kingdom
-  7 Months later, never contaced us again, BLOCKED Luttuosa and keeps playing like nohing al all happened.

What do you think?

Related thread:

 

Edited by Davih

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, Cromlink said:

my name cromlink is deleted now and I can not logon. I find this forum site where searched word = banned and why he can do that for me. always name used cromlink online and not other for deleted and not play other names. for 10hr playing for and quit now.

If your character was never premium then the name and character get deleted after 90 days of not playing i think it is so the name/character can be made again and used. 

 

 

Edited by Kegan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Davih said:

Wondering if Willieman is worth adding:

- Stole a Unique from Luttuosa, in the worst possible way
- Tried to downplay everything and lying until, after realizing the truth, his own kingdom turned against him
- Apologized to us only after being forced to do so
- Promised to reimburse Luttuosa for the things he has stolen, even getting helped from his kingdom
-  7 Months later, never contaced us again, BLOCKED Luttuosa and keeps playing like nohing al all happened.

What do you think?

Related thread:

 

This looks something similar to Mauricio's story. It's a gray area where people disagree on. Slimey? For sure. But not something I would put on this thread. This thread is for the absolutely atrocious people we want to be warned about.

 

I don't think this qualifies. Otherwise there would be an incredibly large amount of people in here, starting by those who screw others with sales of outrageously expensive prices. Would defeat the purpose of this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

23 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

This looks something similar to Mauricio's story. It's a gray area where people disagree on. Slimey? For sure. But not something I would put on this thread. This thread is for the absolutely atrocious people we want to be warned about.

 

I don't think this qualifies. Otherwise there would be an incredibly large amount of people in here, starting by those who screw others with sales of outrageously expensive prices. Would defeat the purpose of this thread.

Well, to be honest, i would have loved if someone warned us of him not being trustworthy before all of that happened.

And i also believe that telling someone "i am very sorry, i will do my best to reimburse you" followed by blocking and ignoring, makes for a pretty atrocious person.

It has been a major distressment, we almost quitted the game and passed an awful week, i've seen there are people on this list for having requested a delivery and not being there to pickup(happened to me too, but i didn't even bother to post it on the forum), so i didn't think that was so much out of this thread purpose, but if it is, nevermind then.

Edited by Davih

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the fact that he was not in his best behavior. Sure, you should have gotten a charge off the tome, but miscommunications made that impossible. However, I don't think JK should have just not given you anything or even given you a consolation price. It was a ###### deal, and I think both parties were at fault. 

 

My point is that just because someone slights you, it doesn't mean they should be punished in this manner. This is a very gray area. Is not clear cut like someone doing a charge back or cleaning out a friend's deed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

I agree with the fact that he was not in his best behavior. Sure, you should have gotten a charge off the tome, but miscommunications made that impossible. However, I don't think JK should have just not given you anything or even given you a consolation price. It was a ###### deal, and I think both parties were at fault. 

 

My point is that just because someone slights you, it doesn't mean they should be punished in this manner. This is a very gray area. Is not clear cut like someone doing a charge back or cleaning out a friend's deed.

Nah, she shouldn't have gotten a charge off the tome. We just shouldn't have got our unique stolen away from us.

Willieman betrayed our trust and called the deed "I got  one" right after Luttuosa asked in local "does anyone have a deed stake?" (while i was carrying one back from the mailbox that was 1 minute far from there)

I don't think this is bad communication, he understood perfectly well what he was doing, and never really felt sorry for it.

And i don't think we ever were at fault, miscommunication is something that happend after the deed was stolen, after conditions we never agreed upon were dictacted, and all of that has always been crystal clear to him.

 

Edited by Davih

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

This looks something similar to Mauricio's story. It's a gray area where people disagree on. Slimey? For sure. But not something I would put on this thread. This thread is for the absolutely atrocious people we want to be warned about.

 

I don't think this qualifies. Otherwise there would be an incredibly large amount of people in here, starting by those who screw others with sales of outrageously expensive prices. Would defeat the purpose of this thread.

Name and shames aren't intended to be saved for the "worst of the worst", or for those that have specifically broke a rule. Those people are usually handled by the team. Name and Shame's are for anyone who puts their reputation at stake by doing something slimey.

Maurizio, those unique snatchers, etc. all have a reason to be on the list.

As for your "outrageously expensive" analogy, it's apples and oranges in this context. Anyone can sell anything at any price that they want to. Doesn't mean they will get the sale. For instance, I could ask for 1s per sprout I have for sale, and there is absolutely nothing "slimey" on my end for doing so. But, there is always cause and effect,  and if I choose to sell my sprouts for 1s a piece, I will undoubtedly have 0 sales.

Nowhere in Wurm is there a standard price for something, created by the game. All of the prices are created by the players. Some people charge 70s a set of drake, some charge 100s. The ones that are charging 100s aren't "slimey",  they're just less likely to sell their merchandise.

6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but we must all agreed who is on top of the list...  Fame of Shame :D

 

Niru 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, As_I_Decay said:

Name and shames aren't intended to be saved for the "worst of the worst", or for those that have specifically broke a rule. Those people are usually handled by the team. Name and Shame's are for anyone who puts their reputation at stake by doing something slimey.

Maurizio, those unique snatchers, etc. all have a reason to be on the list.

As for your "outrageously expensive" analogy, it's apples and oranges in this context. Anyone can sell anything at any price that they want to. Doesn't mean they will get the sale. For instance, I could ask for 1s per sprout I have for sale, and there is absolutely nothing "slimey" on my end for doing so. But, there is always cause and effect,  and if I choose to sell my sprouts for 1s a piece, I will undoubtedly have 0 sales.

Nowhere in Wurm is there a standard price for something, created by the game. All of the prices are created by the players. Some people charge 70s a set of drake, some charge 100s. The ones that are charging 100s aren't "slimey",  they're just less likely to sell their merchandise.

You are correct. However that's not what I was trying to say. What I meant was more in the context that people can feel slighted in many ways, for different reasons. For example, you might be right in the context that a mob was stolen from you, just as the other person might be right in the sense that a mob off deed is free to the taking. Opinions about the subject clash and the community sides with one or the other. If we let any person who feels slighted to put a name on here and ruin another person's reputation, where will it end? (No offense to you Davih, I am simply using your case as an example.) 

 

I can feel slighted because you told me that the standard going price for the drake set was 120s, only for me to find out later that you ripped me off. Should you be added to this list? Was it taking advantage of a new player or was it a good sales pitch? Where does the buck stop? What if I feel slighted because you looted my deed, after I left the permissions open by ignorance or accident? Did you steal from me? Or was I just careless?  

 

That is what I meant by my comment. My opinion of the Willieman case is just my opinion, of course. Just like Maurizio, it was a dispute between two players. Whatever their motivations, only they know the truth behind their actions. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

You are correct. However that's not what I was trying to say. What I meant was more in the context that people can feel slighted in many ways, for different reasons. For example, you might be right in the context that a mob was stolen from you, just as the other person might be right in the sense that a mob off deed is free to the taking. Opinions about the subject clash and the community sides with one or the other. If we let any person who feels slighted to put a name on here and ruin another person's reputation, where will it end? (No offense to you Davih, I am simply using your case as an example.) 

 

I can feel slighted because you told me that the standard going price for the drake set was 120s, only for me to find out later that you ripped me off. Should you be added to this list? Was it taking advantage of a new player or was it a good sales pitch? Where does the buck stop? What if I feel slighted because you looted my deed, after I left the permissions open by ignorance or accident? Did you steal from me? Or was I just careless?  

 

That is what I meant by my comment. My opinion of the Willieman case is just my opinion, of course. Just like Maurizio, it was a dispute between two players. Whatever their motivations, only they know the truth behind their actions. 

Stealing is stealing.. of course you were careless then, but it is still stealing. When you leave your home door unlocked, that doesn't mean, everything is up for grabs inside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rixk said:

Stealing is stealing.. of course you were careless then, but it is still stealing. When you leave your home door unlocked, that doesn't mean, everything is up for grabs inside.

Yes, but if you leave your house with a broken roof and water goes in and everything rots, and your fences fall and bushes and trees grow everywhere in your yard.. and somebody comes along and takes whatever is left inside that house, that's still stealing irl. But in wurm you can do that, since it's a place that is not inhabited anymore, and whether it's a 30ql chain boot, or a full bsb of logs, it's still up for grabs for anyone since it's better to be put to use than rot away. So analogies like these with real life situations don't necessarily apply to wurm's sense of "property". Just saying :)

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

...If we let any person who feels slighted to put a name on here and ruin another person's reputation, where will it end?
 

...Should you be added to this list? ...Where does the buck stop?

Personally, I am under the opinion that you're free to put anyone's reputation into question at any time, for anything and said person is free to rebut you. The community can take what they want out of it.

Theoretically, that includes a sale like the one that you had used as example. If you felt slighted (or ripped off), you have the right to put up a "name and shame". The seller has the right to come in and defend their reputation. 

Name and Shames don't exactly put your reputation in "shambles" after having put that rep into question, either. Take Maurizio as an example. Many people in the community will still conduct business with him and associate with him, because they feel he didn't do anything wrong. Then, there are others, who feel the opposite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

To be honest, i think i might even agree with some of the analogies and the things that you wrote.
The point is there is FAR more to it than just the "stealing".

I'm not sure if all of you read the entire post and fully understood what happened but, he didn't just pass by by chance and stole a unique we had penned.

He was called to "help" under an agreement that the unique was our and that he couldn't tell anyone else the coordinates and, even less, steal the deed.

- He Stole a deed in a disrespectful way after being told the coordinates, knowing perfectly well what he was doing and there were no possible excuses for it. (i can't stress this enough : Lutt asked in local "anyone have a deed stake?" and a he creates a deed named "I got one" , do you honestly believe he did that as a courtesy to help us handle things? Lol.)
- He betrayed the trust of the person who called him, who felt all the blame on itself and felt bad about the situation literally for months. Totally runing his game experience as well
- He lied to us about a lot of things, dictated rules about something that wasn't his to begin with, and then he didn't even respect them

- He ignored us to avoid communication
- He probably lied to his kingdom too
- After his kingdom turned against him, he apologized with something that looked like a 7yr old child that apologizes because it's forced by its parents but actually doesn't feel the slightest bit sorry for it.
- He promised he would make up for it and reimburse Luttuosa
- Not only he never kept his word(AGAIN) and never contacted us again, but he also blocked us, just in case.

While the stealing itself could be something questionable (even if actually, it's not) All the other things he have done and the way he dealt with the thing from the beginning until now, is something that shows pretty clearly what kind of person he is, and, yeah, of course we aren't saints so we are still mad at him. i wont lie, but i also honestly believe that he is an individual the community should definitively be warned about.

Also, if he wants to defend himself, he's free to do that much

Edited by Davih

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now