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Talor

[released] Survival Mod : Temperature, crop seasons & drinking water

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I also think Wulfrock's compromise is a good one. 

 

One other ask from a PVP perspective. Sometimes the cold ticks are blocking pillar capping during a HOTA. Any chance we could have an option to spread them out more or have them not execute if HOTA is running? (making a guess at what the problem is here, could be wrong).

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3 minutes ago, Nappy said:

One other ask from a PVP perspective. Sometimes the cold ticks are blocking pillar capping during a HOTA. Any chance we could have an option to spread them out more or have them not execute if HOTA is running? (making a guess at what the problem is here, could be wrong).

 

Do you mean the player is freezing cold and the damage from taking a cold wound is interrupting the cap? Or something else?

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They can always make a fire at the pillar, can't just run and cap it gutta make a fire now XD.

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2 hours ago, Talor said:

 

Do you mean the player is freezing cold and the damage from taking a cold wound is interrupting the cap? Or something else?

 

 

TheMan and Coolguy probably have direct feedback. I think it's the interrupt that you mentioned above.

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I have just released an update with the following changes:

  • Players will be 'cold' if they log in during cold environmental conditions
  • Players will no longer see warming messages from eating/drinking if temperature survival is disabled in .properties
Edited by Talor
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Just released another update with a new water disease mechanic:

  • Drinking sea/lake water may give you disease status
  • Boiling water removes this risk
  • Water from wells & fountains is still safe
  • This mechanic can be enabled or disabled in the .properties file

(This is the same disease status that you get from standing on tiles with lots of creatures)

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Have you thought of adding a client side mod for this allowing individuals to turn off this added immersion if they are not interested in it? Or of allowing them to up the difficulty for themselves if that is their preference?

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13 hours ago, Katia said:

Have you thought of adding a client side mod for this allowing individuals to turn off this added immersion if they are not interested in it? Or of allowing them to up the difficulty for themselves if that is their preference?

 

I haven't got any plans to make a client-side version of this mod. I can see the value in giving players the choice, but I think you lose a lot by making the features client-side. On pvp servers, anyone who kept the features enabled would be at a disadvantage. On pve servers, there would be no need for people to make inns, sell warm clothing, firewood, etc.

 

I'm not sure if you were talking specifically about the new water disease feature or more generally. The temperature and drinking water features can be enabled or disabled separately. So I was thinking that server owners would choose which features they want, and players can then choose a server that offers the type of gameplay they enjoy.

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We have to agree with Talor here, we would not like to see a Client side version of this. If people dont want to play with the temperature mod, easier to just choose a server without it.

 

A client side one would definitely cause us to turn the server mod off entirely, would be little to no point to it on our Roleplay server.

 

Valiance and Kaylie.

 

 

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If a player thinks the settings are too low and want it to be more tough for himself, so be it. Client-side to make it less harsh - absolutely not.

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On 1/9/2017 at 3:48 PM, Talor said:

Just released another update with a new water disease mechanic:

  • Drinking sea/lake water may give you disease status
  • Boiling water removes this risk
  • Water from wells & fountains is still safe
  • This mechanic can be enabled or disabled in the .properties file

(This is the same disease status that you get from standing on tiles with lots of creatures)

 

Players on my server mentioned that, if you are to change the water, you should change what it says when you examine it because it still says it tastes fresh and I agree with them. With such a fundamental change (use to be able to drink anywhere, now players must be careful about drinking anywhere), there needs to be more information for the client. Is it possible to change waters examination description to reflect its ability to make you sick if it can do so? "This water tastes stagnant" for lake water with no rivers and for ocean it can be "This water is too salty to drink".

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Agreed with Roushi.  Maybe make tasting act like the divination thing, except with a chance for a false positive.

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Having enjoyed alot of back country camping I can tell you that drinking river or lake water and not treating it in someway can rapidly lead to "beaver fever" about a week after you drank the water. Even a problem in fast flowing water.

 

So for me, the current water messages work fine if you worry about beaver fever!

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Another thing that a player of mine pointed out is that he shouldn't be freezing to death underground (there is no water in his mine) and underground is generally 15 degrees (C).

I also agree with this. Hard to scramble for wood scraps in a mine while dying.

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13 hours ago, Roushi said:

 

Players on my server mentioned that, if you are to change the water, you should change what it says when you examine it because it still says it tastes fresh and I agree with them. With such a fundamental change (use to be able to drink anywhere, now players must be careful about drinking anywhere), there needs to be more information for the client. Is it possible to change waters examination description to reflect its ability to make you sick if it can do so? "This water tastes stagnant" for lake water with no rivers and for ocean it can be "This water is too salty to drink".

 

I'll make it so if you use the 'taste' action, it will tell you that the water tastes bad and might need boiling. The game doesn't have a way to distinguish between sea and lakes, so it will have to be the same message for both.

 

5 hours ago, Roushi said:

Another thing that a player of mine pointed out is that he shouldn't be freezing to death underground (there is no water in his mine) and underground is generally 15 degrees (C).

I also agree with this. Hard to scramble for wood scraps in a mine while dying.

 

I hadn't thought of this. It makes sense that if you're deep in a cave system that the temperature would be quite mild, but if you are only just inside the cave then you wouldn't get the same protection. How about if I have it check for a cave opening within 10 tiles of the player, if there is no cave opening, then they'll have a much more mild temperature? But if there is a cave opening, then it functions the same as it does now, because the cold air can easily come inside?

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(snip)

 

The real weather (i.e. daily changes in the cave's atmospheric conditions) of Wind Cave is driven by the wind. Few caves experience the volume of airflow which Wind Cave exhibits. On average, almost 1,000,000 cubic feet of air enter or leave the cave per hour when the Walk-In Entrance is open! That's enough air to completely fill a cave 10 feet wide, 10 feet tall, and almost 2 miles long! Since it takes a long time for a volume of air this large to warm or cool to cave temperature, temperature changes can occur surprisingly deep into the cave on days when the cave is inhaling. The Wind Cave Climate Study of 1984-85 showed that with the Walk-In Entrance open in the winter, temperatures could fluctuate by over 12°F as far into the cave as the Post Office (over 500 feet from the entrance). The entire Half-Mile Tour route is almost always cooler than the 55°F deep cave temperature, mostly due to cold air brought into the cave during the winter. So much for constant temperatures at Wind Cave!

 

(end snip)

 

From https://www.nps.gov/wica/learn/nature/cave-meteorology.htm

 

Perhaps whether or not the mine has a door should be considered?

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10 minutes ago, Nappy said:

Perhaps whether or not the mine has a door should be considered?

 

Hmmm. While it makes sense, it might be a bit overpowered in terms of gameplay? It is pretty easy to open a one-tile mine and throw a door on it.

 

Being in a cave of any kind already gives you protection from the wind and rain effects, so I don't think we should buff caves too much more.

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1 hour ago, Talor said:

 

I'll make it so if you use the 'taste' action, it will tell you that the water tastes bad and might need boiling. The game doesn't have a way to distinguish between sea and lakes, so it will have to be the same message for both.

 

 

I hadn't thought of this. It makes sense that if you're deep in a cave system that the temperature would be quite mild, but if you are only just inside the cave then you wouldn't get the same protection. How about if I have it check for a cave opening within 10 tiles of the player, if there is no cave opening, then they'll have a much more mild temperature? But if there is a cave opening, then it functions the same as it does now, because the cold air can easily come inside?

 

These both sounds like great additions.

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I think it's doing good as is, cave is basically same as inside a building, which is a good protection.

Not sure how much bonus you'll get from a building inside a mine, but I don't think just a mine should be better than a house. Most players will not bother with building houses if mines are superior.

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32 minutes ago, Jukken said:

I think it's doing good as is, cave is basically same as inside a building, which is a good protection.

Not sure how much bonus you'll get from a building inside a mine, but I don't think just a mine should be better than a house. Most players will not bother with building houses if mines are superior.

 

Reality is that other than protecting the token (in order to prevent tile disintegration and deed draining in PVP) there is no reason to be above ground in Wurm for your living/working areas.

 

Mine door/reinforced tiles are supreme! Lockpicking is too powerful, deed guards too weak, and mine doors can't be picked, only bashed.

 

On most WU servers using standard deed draining and the bountymod, draining a deed is near impossible making most above ground defensive structures unimportant except for tile disintegration protection. 

 

On Desolation we are using a custom deed draining mod that drains a deed completely after x drains.

 

~Nappy 

Edited by Nappy

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I just released an update with the following changes:

  • Using the 'taste' option on water tiles will say the water tastes bad.
  • Changed 'contracted disease' message to be the type that flashes up on the screen

(I've held off on the proposed change to mines for now, as the arguments against were convincing)

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1 hour ago, Talor said:

I just released an update with the following changes:

  • Using the 'taste' option on water tiles will say the water tastes bad.
  • Changed 'contracted disease' message to be the type that flashes up on the screen

(I've held off on the proposed change to mines for now, as the arguments against were convincing)

 

Not even remotely convincing.

 

The fact is that underground is warmer than above ground, there is no argument against that!

If you don't want to be realistic with your survival mod then I'm going to remove it, because as it stands, my players can't play without constantly being harassed by your mod. If there is no balance to this nagging, there is no need to use it as it doesn't increase immersion it erases it completely. Now instead of helping people I have to deal with people complaining that they are cold for what appears to be absolutely no reason. It isn't winter and it is barely drizzling rain but they are dying like its a blizzard. Hard mode is not on and I'm turning newbie protection on because its ridiculous. Anyone who thinks this is great as is, isn't paying attention (or may not even be using it! GM's can't give feedback because they are unaffected by this mod!). Instead of catering posts that are seemingly nonsense, you should just add the option for mines. Why not?

Edited by Roushi

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27 minutes ago, Roushi said:

 

Not even remotely convincing.

 

The fact is that underground is warmer than above ground, there is no argument against that!

If you don't want to be realistic with your survival mod then I'm going to remove it, because as it stands, my players can't play without constantly being harassed by your mod. If there is no balance to this nagging, there is no need to use it as it doesn't increase immersion it erases it completely. Now instead of helping people I have to deal with people complaining that they are cold for what appears to be absolutely no reason. It isn't winter and it is barely drizzling rain but they are dying like its a blizzard. Hard mode is not on and I'm turning newbie protection on because its ridiculous. Anyone who thinks this is great as is, isn't paying attention (or may not even be using it! GM's can't give feedback because they are unaffected by this mod!). Instead of catering posts that are seemingly nonsense, you should just add the option for mines. Why not?

On Mystic Highlands in Winter, if our players are going mining, they put several kindling on their carts, several peat or full logs and away they go, quite fine and warm while mining. 

 

You know you can push a campfire right ? ;)

 

Valiance and Kaylie.

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1 hour ago, Wulfrock said:

On Mystic Highlands in Winter, if our players are going mining, they put several kindling on their carts, several peat or full logs and away they go, quite fine and warm while mining. 

 

You know you can push a campfire right ? ;)

 

Valiance

 

Thanks for your attempt at being condescending, it failed miserably (of course, typical).

 

But no worries. I merely described my players experience, I'm a GM as well so I too experience nothing and yes I pushed campfires before you ever knew what wurm was, I'm sure.

 

Maybe it works well on your server and everyone on yours understands (who cares) but my players are experiencing something different and it is of no concern to you, it is of concern to the mod dev so bugger off.

Edited by Roushi

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