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Poll: should rarity of cooker/container change affinity of meal?

Should rarity change the affinity?   

180 members have voted

  1. 1. Should rarity change the affinity?

    • yes (keep current system as is)
      107
    • No (invalidate all current affinities found via rare+ cookers)
      73


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I have been in discussion with the dev team, and currently the rarity of cookers does affect the resulting affinity ( e.g. same exact meal cooked in a rare oven will give a different result vs a non rare oven)

 

That said, there has been some good points about wanting rare+ ovens and pans and such, or imping your own rare, obviously longer timers are a bonus there and it seems odd to make getting a supreme oven a downside.

 

This does raise an issue though. If we change it, it means any testing for affinities done with rare+ containers and cookers would be invalid as mentioned above, so we're left with the possibility of it going either way, and as a result of this, we'd like your feedback about what to do from here:

 

a) Keep it as it is, with rarity affecting affinity type, and existing notes remain correct - this means to obtain the same affinity from the same meal the rarity on the cookers and containers will need to be the same.

b ) Remove the rarity affecting affinity type (but still affecting length) and invalidate any notes involving rare+utensils, ingredients or cookers.

 

in both cases, rare+ cookers and containers will boost the timer length and boost the resulting ql of the dish.

 

This will remain open over the weekend, with the result being taken as feedback before any decision as made, in order to definitely go one way or another a fairly large majority will be required, otherwise we'll discuss it and make the decision based on points from players and the result.

 

Please note this will ONLY change the affinities for those using rare+ ovens or any cooking instruments, if you have used normal ovens or containers when cataloguing your affinities, they will not change.

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Stanlee did an excellent break down of all the possibles, but there are a couple things than still keep me leaning toward Option A.  The main reason is the limits of certain ingredients, such as coconut.  For example the fish, meat, veg, .... curry.  Having a different affinity depending on the oven makes it easier in the sense that two identical ingredients give twice or three times the affinities (using supreme i assume is the same), without having to note where i used chopped corn or chopped onion, but if i want to switch it up the corn vs onion gives me two more possible affinities.

 

Being able to reuse some of the really good recipes, is a good thing.  Especially when they have simply ingredients, time consuming, and less options, such as with rum.

 

I still prefer A, we get the benefit of B anyway.

 

As for duplicate affinites, i have found several duplicate affinites.  I think i have 3 recipes for weaponless fighting alone

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+1 for poll.

-1 for style/form: could have asked also:  yes (confuse everybody and their friend with shitload of options); no (keep cooking simple)

 might take a look things like 'response bias' or 'suggestive questions' for more insight.

 

just my two coppers

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More options means more chance that you'll fine your desired affinity.

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This is no different than adjusting a recipe if you use a different oven in real life. Some ovens are hotter than others.  I think this just adds more variety. And... you could sell some of those high ql rare meals cooked  to others for affinity boosts?

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would a rare oven = rare forge = rare campfire, using the same recipe, to get the same affinity?

 

To answer the Poll though, I voted no.  It makes yet another complete bollixing of recipes for many or maybe all, but better to fix this now.  By fix, I mean every new player coming into the game will get thrown by the rarity at some point and become entirely frustrated.  Keep affinities LOCKED in to specific recipes, regardless of cooking equipment shape, size and rarity.

 

If I make bacon and eggs for breakfast on my viking stove or in a camp fire in the woods... it is bacon and eggs man!  It tastes like bacon and eggs and it makes me fool just as good :)

 

Edit:  Just think about it.  I believe it has been said that there are already thousands of recipes possible.  Do we need to up that to 10,000 +?

 

When a recipe is learned and recorded, does it show what type of cooker, pan and rarity of both???  This is becoming far too complex and will be a constant source if headaches for staff and frustrated players, if it can't be reined in to manageable proportions.

Edited by Wurmhole
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From the the two threads so far it's not clear, but with rarity affecting affinity, does that mean a rare oven would give a different affinity than a supreme or fantasic? Or is it binary, one affinity for non-rare, a second for all the categories of rare+?

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15 minutes ago, Dinant said:

From the the two threads so far it's not clear, but with rarity affecting affinity, does that mean a rare oven would give a different affinity than a supreme or fantasic? Or is it binary, one affinity for non-rare, a second for all the categories of rare+?

rare gives a different affinity vs supreme, supreme gives a different one vs fantastic.

 

Each level of rarity changes the affinity.

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I vote yes.

 

Strange how it seems we just went throu this with fountain pans, those that had fountain pans didn't want the change vs those that wasnted the change that didn't have fountain pans.

 

Haves vs have the nots,

 

One side crying and the other side worried that their time and effect are being negated for no reason.  Bonus reward vs having reward of hard work taken away.

 

This is not a game breaking issue, doesn't exploit any known characteristics of wurm.

 

Hard work should be rewarded, not punished or diminished because lazy folks don't want to put in the time or effort for the reward of having rare+ ovens, pans, forges.

 

With this change you will make having a rare worthless. No i'm not basing my decision on a monetary reason but more of a reason behind the hard work of either getting these items or acquiring  them.

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Just now, Stormblade said:

I vote yes.

 

Strange how it seems we just went throu this with fountain pans, those that had fountain pans didn't want the change vs those that wasnted the change that didn't have fountain pans.

 

Haves vs have the nots,

 

One side crying and the other side worried that their time and effect are being negated for no reason.  Bonus reward vs having reward of hard work taken away.

 

This is not a game breaking issue, doesn't exploit any known characteristics of wurm.

 

Hard work should be rewarded, not punished or diminished because lazy folks don't want to put in the time or effort for the reward of having rare+ ovens, pans, forges.

 

With this change you will make having a rare worthless. No i'm not basing my decision on a monetary reason but more of a reason behind the hard work of either getting these items or acquiring  them.

Current system makes getting a rare oven worthless.. making all the recipes and finding their affinites in normal oven and then magically imping your oven rare.. YAY! You have to start all over with the affinity list(so making your oven rare just created a chore, because you have to start over with your recipe list), or ignore that rare and make another normal oven(definitely shows how "big reward" having a rare oven has become).

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Stirfry alone has some 27 000 variations... a simple thing to make with easily obtainable ingredients and good lasting afinities... do you really think we need to triple that? i am sure everyone can find their needed affinity with just this food even.

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11 minutes ago, Stormblade said:

 

 

With this change you will make having a rare worthless. No i'm not basing my decision on a monetary reason but more of a reason behind the hard work of either getting these items or acquiring  them.

How will this make rare ovens worthless, they still make you food with longer timers. What it does atm, it makes normal ovens obsolete. Because of couse everyone wants the better timers, but if the affinities change, there is no point of doing extensive testing on normal oven. If all the ovens gave same affinities, you could switch up to a better timer food in better oven with time, when you can make it or afford to buy one.

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Leave it alone, polls are good please make more of these.

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I voted A.  I don't currently have a rare oven, but I may someday. **crosses fingers**   I very much like the idea that if I don't get lucky with finding affinities I'm personally looking for, that there are more options to look for them.

 

I do think that in the long run, all the to-do about too much complexity and too much work, etc. will all blow over eventually.  I don't see a downside to the huge numbers of variations that people are throwing out there. Why is that detrimental? 

 

The fact is, once those who don't like all the variations find the affinities they like, they'll ignore the ones they don't care about, will know how to make the ones they want, and that will be that. They will not be required to continue making all the possible variations if they're not so inclined. 

 

In the meantime, those who do enjoy the experimentation and/or didn't get lucky finding a desired affinity yet, will have more chances to eventually find it. 

 

In a nutshell, just because there are (seemingly) endless possibilities, doesn't mean anyone is duty bound to explore them all. And I see no reason to deny those additional possibilities to those who do want to explore them.  ;)

Edited by Amadee
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The discussion of "rare ovens giving access to more affinities" is irrelevant when you consider that there are many thousands, if not millions of possible food combinations.

So it just comes down to a question of: do we inconvenience the current rare oven owners once, or do we inconvenience all future rare oven owners from here on out?

Change it. It's an unnecessary headache.

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And the fact we are having this discussion here shows IMO, that the whole affinity system is flawed. Small change wiping clean players progress, it is bad design choice to begin with.

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On 2016-12-15 at 6:03 PM, Aeris said:

Going through with Option b will cause a handful of people who've already mapped out affinities a lot of trouble, going through with Option a will cause a lot of people a lot of trouble in the future since it will always be a source of confusion and extra work depending on what furnace you have at hand ready to cook with.

 

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What Kardiwen says:  Rares give you longer timers.  THIS is what makes rare ovens sweet.  I don't want a rare oven to make 2x, 3x, 4x more recipes to map out. and force me to make a new oven if mine rares up on imping.

 

Don't make cooking so complicated that people won't be willing to invest in it.  Take me for example.  Based on the roll-out so far, I have no intention of wasting time with cooking int he foreseeable future, because I am convinced any work I invest now will be wiped out soon.

 

Edit: and if rarity makes a difference in recipe, then logically the QL of the oven should to, right?  Maybe the wood type used to light the fire?  Maybe elevation?  Inside vs outside?  How about season, cause the temp of the air makes a difference when you cook... 

 

Rare already heats up faster and stays lit longer + the longer affinities mentioned above.  Isn't that enough?

Edited by Wurmhole
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If you do make the change and rare+ ovens give the same affinity as non-rares, I believe you should reset the list of affinities again. That way everyone has to start over and not just those that were lucky enough to have a rare+ oven. That way it's a level playing field again.

 

Edit: I am in favor of keeping rare+ ovens the way they are. 

Edited by zethreal
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Cross-posting from the other thread since conversation seems unnecessarily mixed between them.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, zethreal said:

If you do make the change and rare+ ovens give the same affinity as non-rares, I believe you should reset the list of affinities again. That way everyone has to start over and not just those that were lucky enough to have a rare+ oven. That way it's a level playing field again.

 

And cooking is some kind of competition where a level playing field matters in any way? Why needlessly screw over people who don't get screwed over by the No option? It's really not going to make the folks who got screwed over (again) feel any better about it.

Edited by Ecrir
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Aren't the affinities different for each player? If this is indeed true, why should someone else's oven rarity matter when you will get what you get and they will get what they get anyway?

 

Changed my mind after reading the other thread. 

Edited by Audrel

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29 minutes ago, zethreal said:

If you do make the change and rare+ ovens give the same affinity as non-rares, I believe you should reset the list of affinities again. That way everyone has to start over and not just those that were lucky enough to have a rare+ oven. That way it's a level playing field again.

I disagree with resetting for non-rare discovered recipes.  That is like saying that because Xanadu has to come down for maintenance, we should also bring down all the other servers, to even the playing field.  As a game developer, you do what you have to to keep the game fair for all, but also try hard to disrupt the fewest number of your paying customers.

 

Don't reset all recipes.  Only the rare ones = fewer upset people over time lost again.  I've not cooked at all, so I'm not impacted either way.

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