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Stanlee

Rare ovens change affinities

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My 2 coppers....

 

I'd say leave it as is.  Having rare ovens give different affinities increases the options for new affinities, and options are always a good thing, imo.  I don't have a rare oven (yet, hehe), but I like the idea that if I ever succeed in getting one, I'd have a whole new range of affinities to try for, especially on meals I like but have sucky affinities.  Also, as someone said, gives more perqs to having a rare oven in the first place.

 

p.s...Just curious, does a still count as a cooker?  Will a rare still give a new affinity too?  That would be way cool.  :)

Edited by Amadee
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10 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

just to clarify, it currently is this way, changing it for rarity not to count would invalidate any recipes found via rare+ cookers.

 

Thanks, I just wanted to state my $0.02 without worrying if I chose the correct lettered option.    Either way, I know you guys will do your best.

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57 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

with option B rare+ cookers will still give longer affinities than their non rare counterparts, it just means if you do turn yours rare, or obtain a rare+ one, you do not have to completely start your collection of affinities over again (you just have to do it after this change)

 

But you don't have to completely start your collection of affinities over again when it turns rare+, you can simply make a new non-rare cooker and you're back to where you were before it turned rare+. Only if you want the bonus from rare+ do you have to start over again, so doing that and/or buying a rare+ cooker is simply a proper choice, do you want to put in the extra effort for the extra reward, or would you prefer not to and keep using a non rare cooker?

Edited by Ecrir
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Going through with Option b will cause a handful of people who've already mapped out affinities a lot of trouble, going through with Option a will cause a lot of people a lot of trouble in the future since it will always be a source of confusion and extra work depending on what furnace you have at hand ready to cook with.

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Just now, Aeris said:

Going through with Option b will cause a handful of people who've already mapped out affinities a lot of trouble, going through with Option a will cause a lot of people a lot of trouble in the future since it will always be a source of confusion and extra work depending on what furnace you have at hand ready to cook with.

 

additionally it makes things harder to sell, as the mere presence of a rare oven will change the outcome.

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I see no difference or added hardship to selling compared to having different ingredients in the meal. 

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3 minutes ago, Rusk said:

I vote B, to reduce future headaches. 

 

Agreed. There are already enough possibilities for affinities in my opinion, and having to keep track of whether I'm using a good rare oven/cauldron/whatever and a "normal" one sounds like a major headache.

 

Either way, a lot of us are going to have to re-check affinities, since we may not have thought to keep track of rarity in the process, since it had never been mentioned that it would have any effect.

 

With option B, it'll reduce headaches in the future, and prevent us from having to re-check all our affinities just because we want to upgrade to a better oven. Rarity will still have a benefit, so I don't see the problem.

Edited by Ostentatio

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Complexity is good...to a point.  Option B is complex enough and the added choice/options from using rare combo's seems unnecessary to me.  Having said that, I haven't even started with the new system since this being Wurm, issues like these were bound to happen in the first month or so.  Therefore I can go either way I suppose. 

 

 

 

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My opinion is affinities should stay as is. So you have additional chance that your favorite meal will give a super affinity. :D

 

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5 hours ago, Annyil said:

My opinion is affinities should stay as is. So you have additional chance that your favorite meal will give a super affinity. :D

 

 

There's already an alarmingly good possibility for this. Take Jalfrezi for an example. Nice, long affinity time.

There's 3 types I've found - meat, fish and veg. With the 15 types of meat I've found thus far, 10 or so veg and about 16 fish (but I'll take away 4 because some are too small to filet), we get a good 27 base jalfrezis.

Two types of items to cook them in, pottery bowl and saucepan. 56 jalfrezis.

5 types of spice, that indeed change the affinity. 280 jalfrezis. We're already over double the number of skills and characteristics in the game.

It can be cooked in a campfire. Won't take forge. 560 jalfrezis. And last I heard, rare campfires are possible.

The different types of oil make different affinities. 9 different oils according to the google doc, but olive doesn't work for this so 8. 4,480 different affinities from jalfrezi.

If we allow rares to factor into this, we come to 11,200 affinities from jalfrezi alone (I haven't included rare campfires in that number because even I have limits)

And I haven't even got other vinegars to check if they change it. Nor checked for any other optional items that can go in.

 

It's already a crazy difficult task to get the same affinity twice. This extra complication is just silly.

 

Kill it.

 

Edit: Oh boy I forgot some things. There's Fresh flag for the spice. And I'm hearing that Mouldy and Rotten foods change affinity, which makes the number of affinities possible from jalfrezi so high that No Man's Sky might file a lawsuit over copyright.

Edit 2: Mouldy meat thing fell before testing. Fresh bit's still true, though, according to the google doc. Which only serves to double the number. But did make me think that maybe the meal will accept more than one spice, which will bring it back to silly.

Edited by Stanlee
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If option b becomes the chosen one, we would obviously want to put this in asap to ensure that it doesnt ruin more work down the line

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Everything I've done up until this point has been in a rare oven.  While my first thought is leave it as is as I don't want to re-test all of the recipes that's only a short term solution.  Long term I would need to continue to only do my cooking in the one spot where I have my rare oven, that means no cooking on the go.  Any travel food must be cooked ahead of time and planned out.    It also means that if I take a break or something happens to my deed I'll need to rework everything.  My other option is to re-test everything and make notes using a non rare oven.  Either way I'm going to have to re-test everything.  

 

In the end gonna have to say Go with option B, will have to do the re-test anyway might as well get it over with.  I'd rather things be as consistent as wurmly possible.

 

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leave it as is for the love of or sanity...  with 6 premium accounts to recheck every good item we've logged we will be testing hundreds of times over again and having to remake everything too on top of that..

 

as said it also gives options for affinities

 

having to retest all affinities more than once +  no qol allowed with cooking stuff = no fun why bother with this

Edited by MrGARY
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It was bad enough the first time there was a wipe, forgivable yeah accidents happen.

After being apprehensive to begin the process again now you are considering doing it on purpose?

 

Please no change, its not a bad thing to imp an oven rare+ by any means no matter how you look at it there is no loss and simple enough to build a new non rare if you don't want to try new things. If your issue is that you may not have a rare oven at every single one of your deeds that sounds like a first world problem with too many villages, mail is so cheap you can send food and hey you can even carry it with you (even though wrapping seems to actually accelerate the decay process). Leaving it makes things more complicated? Hardly. There is already a multitude of ways to keep in mind for affinity changes, adding 'rare oven' to the list isn't going to suddenly break the camels back.

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Please leave as is or (after reading a couple comments) make the change soon

Edited by ClericGunem

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@Stanleeyour numbers are true if we assume affinities are totally random which seems untrue, as similar foods tend to give related or even the same affinities on the same character. I have no proper testing done yet and I did not find any scheme yet .

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7 hours ago, Stanlee said:

 

There's already an alarmingly good possibility for this. Take Jalfrezi for an example. Nice, long affinity time.

There's 3 types I've found - meat, fish and veg. With the 15 types of meat I've found thus far, 10 or so veg and about 16 fish (but I'll take away 4 because some are too small to filet), we get a good 27 base jalfrezis.

Two types of items to cook them in, pottery bowl and saucepan. 56 jalfrezis.

5 types of spice, that indeed change the affinity. 280 jalfrezis. We're already over double the number of skills and characteristics in the game.

It can be cooked in a campfire. Won't take forge. 560 jalfrezis. And last I heard, rare campfires are possible.

The different types of oil make different affinities. 9 different oils according to the google doc, but olive doesn't work for this so 8. 4,480 different affinities from jalfrezi.

If we allow rares to factor into this, we come to 11,200 affinities from jalfrezi alone (I haven't included rare campfires in that number because even I have limits)

And I haven't even got other vinegars to check if they change it. Nor checked for any other optional items that can go in.

 

It's already a crazy difficult task to get the same affinity twice. This extra complication is just silly.

 

Kill it.

 

Edit: Oh boy I forgot some things. There's Fresh flag for the spice. And I'm hearing that Mouldy and Rotten foods change affinity, which makes the number of affinities possible from jalfrezi so high that No Man's Sky might file a lawsuit over copyright.

Edit 2: Mouldy meat thing fell before testing. Fresh bit's still true, though, according to the google doc. Which only serves to double the number. But did make me think that maybe the meal will accept more than one spice, which will bring it back to silly.

I think your substantiation is the best so far, i was too lazy to do the math, and i am changing my vote for B, the changes in cookers will cause confusion in the people who dont know this, so a nyone who is new to try cooking. 

Rare + ovens are still going to be great because of the increased timers :)

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I really like the rares increasing timers but not affecting affinities, it's more in line with how rares work outside of the kitchen and is more fair for all players.

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I do think we need a poll for this, and maybe a message in wo with link so people who do not check the forums as often or at all get some info and have a chance to speak their mind.

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After Stanlee doing the math B sounds like a better option now. Though I still don't like how it would end up resetting all the work some people have done, so I'm somewhat conflicted on this one as I wouldn't want to be in the position where the last reset wiped out all my work, then I spend 1-2 weeks getting it all back in order only for another reset to happen due to this. I'd think some sort of compensation is in order for people like that, as they're getting screwed over twice. Doing it asap won't change that fact.

(I've personally not done any cooking yet, so I won't be affected in any way myself)

Edited by Ecrir
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I am trying to do the math on another recipe, not writing the recipe but it included a full range of veg, meats, mushrooms, herbs, oil.

I am counting only those that are obtained by normal means so its available to most. 

 

So about like this 6 oils x 7 herbs? x 5 shrooms x 12 meats x 11 veg  =   ... 27,720 o_O either im bad at math or im good with just one food? I seriously dont need another cooker id xD

Or same with 10 vegs

Or same with 9 vegs...

Each line adds in average 20k recipes...

Edited by Kardiwen

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Option A is unintuitive enough that it'll continue to be a problem for new players in the future.

 

Option B will be a problem for people who've already done most of their testing with rare ovens, but it'll be a one-time problem.

 

I'd prefer B. The system is complex enough as it is. We don't need to add another thing to keep track of.

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21 hours ago, rixk said:

 

My choice is: "b ) Remove the rarity affecting affinity type (but still affecting length) and invalidate any notes involving rare+utensils, ingredients or cookers. "

Same affinities from all ovens, just longer affinity from rare one. There are already so many possibilities to every meal - different meats/veggies/herbs/spices.. Let at least this be certain, that when I use oven, it is still an oven, whether it glows or not.

 

 

I agree.  My vote is for option  "b ) Remove the rarity affecting affinity type (but still affecting length) and invalidate any notes involving rare+utensils, ingredients or cookers. "

 

Having rarity affect what affinity comes from a recipe just adds another variable and makes it even more inconsistant in what results you get when you eat a meal that's identical in every way except one bit-flag on the oven you cook it in.

 

Please understand not everyone wants to have to have an out-of-game spreadsheet to do their cooking of what recipes they use regularly.

Edited by Tristanc

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Poll is available here:

Please try keep discussion in that thread, as it saves me going crosseyed

 

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