Skilling up Ropemaking as a Priest.

[Kadore 926]

No offence but it seems anymore you can't say something seems changed without Dev's and Ostentatio saying it needs to be tested before you can say it seems to have changed.

 

As far as the mechanic analogy, how can things be changed and it be such a guessing game for those that make the changes, either you know what you changed or you don't. 

[Chakron 1,025]

What exactly are you trying to say? That we should ignore tests and the scientific process in favor of how people feel & their anecdotes?

[Ostentatio 1,970]

2 hours ago, Kadore said:

No offence but it seems anymore you can't say something seems changed without Dev's and Ostentatio saying it needs to be tested before you can say it seems to have changed.

 

As far as the mechanic analogy, how can things be changed and it be such a guessing game for those that make the changes, either you know what you changed or you don't. 

 

I'm not saying "it needs to be tested". I'm saying it's wrong and baseless on the face of it. Cordage is still high difficulty enough to be viable for skillgain, end of discussion.

 

And they do know what they changed, and so do we. The difficulty of cordage rope was lowered. That's it. This does not prevent you from using it to gain skill using a lower quality rope tool.

[Kadore 926]

12 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

 

I'm not saying "it needs to be tested". I'm saying it's wrong and baseless on the face of it. Cordage is still high difficulty enough to be viable for skillgain, end of discussion.

 

And they do know what they changed, and so do we. The difficulty of cordage rope was lowered. That's it. This does not prevent you from using it to gain skill using a lower quality rope tool.

You know what, I think I understand, my problem is that I always played the game and based skill on what I gained watching my skill bar and what I saw working, I forget nowadays the important thing is to delve into the code and make sure if anyone perceives a way to raise skill differently needs to be shouted down and made sure they understand they are not correct.

 

Hopefully the wiki will be updated soon to make sure everyone knows the exact tool to use at every integer of skill level because that is important, and if anyone says different you are here to put them in their place.  

Edited December 10, 2016 by Kadore
spelling

[griper 537]

Saccing chopped veggies gives much favor?

I have to try this.

[Simyaci 392]

Has cordage rope had great average at 99 ropemaking skill and is it the same now after the changes? Has the average ql change for 99 ropemaking been very insignificant especially in comparison with lower levels?

[Gaeron 551]

47 minutes ago, Simyaci said:

Has cordage rope had great average at 99 ropemaking skill and is it the same now after the changes? Has the average ql change for 99 ropemaking been very insignificant especially in comparison with lower levels?

Remember that saccing involves a square function against get price so the gains are better than linear. at about 90 IIRc the median point was approximately 40ish ql, if this raises to 60ish (guess) then the sac value is about 2.5x more on average. If you don't BSB the cordage or use a number of BSB to minimise QL loss then you'll see somewhat better gains still.

[Simyaci 392]

2 hours ago, Gaeron said:

Remember that saccing involves a square function against get price so the gains are better than linear. at about 90 IIRc the median point was approximately 40ish ql, if this raises to 60ish (guess) then the sac value is about 2.5x more on average. If you don't BSB the cordage or use a number of BSB to minimise QL loss then you'll see somewhat better gains still.

just wondering what the complaint is about

[Ostentatio 1,970]

14 hours ago, Kadore said:

You know what, I think I understand, my problem is that I always played the game and based skill on what I gained watching my skill bar and what I saw working, I forget nowadays the important thing is to delve into the code and make sure if anyone perceives a way to raise skill differently needs to be shouted down and made sure they understand they are not correct.

 

Hopefully the wiki will be updated soon to make sure everyone knows the exact tool to use at every integer of skill level because that is important, and if anyone says different you are here to put them in their place.  

 

Dude, this doesn't require diving into code. It's just... having at least a vague understanding of the basic concepts involved.

 

• If you succeed at a task with too high a roll, or fail the task, you don't get skill.
• Tool QL affects how well you roll when making something.
• Therefore, if the task becomes easier, drop tool QL if necessary so you don't roll quite as high.

this is stuff we've known about for years

[GoldFever 299]

On 12/8/2016 at 6:26 PM, GoldFever said:

I get 6200 favor from 1000 92ql wemp at 96 ropemaking, using a 95ql supreme ropetool (was about 4200 before change). 

 

 

6 hours ago, Gaeron said:

Remember that saccing involves a square function against get price so the gains are better than linear. at about 90 IIRc the median point was approximately 40ish ql, if this raises to 60ish (guess) then the sac value is about 2.5x more on average. If you don't BSB the cordage or use a number of BSB to minimise QL loss then you'll see somewhat better gains still.

 

 

I wish.  We are getting about 50% more favor, just enough that at high end skill and tool, can do a little bit better than chopped veggies for universal favor.  I wouldn't advise anyone to skill ropemaking at this time.  However, if you already have it, as I do, seems to be worth it to continue on using it.

[Pashka 707]

1 hour ago, GoldFever said:

 

 

 

I wish.  We are getting about 50% more favor, just enough that at high end skill and tool, can do a little bit better than chopped veggies for universal favor.  I wouldn't advise anyone to skill ropemaking at this time.  However, if you already have it, as I do, seems to be worth it to continue on using it.

 

And this is the problem that I was bringing to the forums.  It isn't advisable to skill it up anymore. 

[Retrograde 12,013]

1 hour ago, Pashka said:

 

And this is the problem that I was bringing to the forums.  It isn't advisable to skill it up anymore. 

besides being insanity to raise through sheer making of ropes (now that net traps bring the imping ability, which is much easier to depriest, imp to get ropemaking to 99, and then repriest), it's still a feasible way through the mechanics of the skill. Tool QL can be balanced against difficulty and produce just as good a tick rate as you had before.

 

as to whether it's now worth it because of chopping vegetables was another point entirely, and has little to do with your post of "skilling up ropemaking as a priest"

[Pashka 707]

I'm glad that this is a sandbox.  Read that word and think about it.  This is a game that anyone should be able to not HAVE to depriest a 100 faith priest with massive channeling just because YOU decide that it isn't the correct way.  YOU made it impossible by a decision of YOURS alone.  I can still go back and reread the discussion the night this decision was made.  All as a kneejerk.  Now the next time someone wants to tell you that you have to completely undo YOUR character so that you can do something because the game screwed it up, then we can have this conversation again.  Betting that will never happen though.

[Retrograde 12,013]

it doesn't have to happen, but getting to 100 blacksmithing by making nails isn't ideal either.

 

gaining skill via creation of cordage rope is still 100% viable and the skillgain is just as easy as before, all you need to do is vary the quality of your rope tool to reflect the change in difficulty.

 

it is still 100% possible exactly the same way you raised it.

[Kadore 926]

16 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

besides being insanity to raise through sheer making of ropes (now that net traps bring the imping ability, which is much easier to depriest, imp to get ropemaking to 99, and then repriest), it's still a feasible way through the mechanics of the skill. Tool QL can be balanced against difficulty and produce just as good a tick rate as you had before.

 

as to whether it's now worth it because of chopping vegetables was another point entirely, and has little to do with your post of "skilling up ropemaking as a priest"

Can you please provide me a link to your priest with high channeling

 

Just now, Retrograde said:

it doesn't have to happen, but getting to 100 blacksmithing by making nails isn't ideal either.

 

gaining skill via creation of cordage rope is still 100% viable and the skillgain is just as easy as before, all you need to do is vary the quality of your rope tool to reflect the change in difficulty.

 

it is still 100% possible exactly the same way you raised it.

But as a priest it's the best you can do.

 

Thanks for the insight, perhaps the tool quality to gain skill  should be added to the tutorial since it's the answer given, for years we guessed at how things were, if it's so simple, why the need to have to even search for the information.

[Pashka 707]

9 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

it doesn't have to happen, but getting to 100 blacksmithing by making nails isn't ideal either.

 

gaining skill via creation of cordage rope is still 100% viable and the skillgain is just as easy as before, all you need to do is vary the quality of your rope tool to reflect the change in difficulty.

 

it is still 100% possible exactly the same way you raised it.

 

Well now funny you should bring that up.  Now that you have made it that way for new priests to have to do this.  Why don't you do blacksmithing that way.  Yea yea I know.  You would never put yourself through the hell you wish to put someone else through.  As long as it doesn't happen to you right?

[Retrograde 12,013]

13 minutes ago, Kadore said:

Thanks for the insight, perhaps the tool quality to gain skill  should be added to the tutorial since it's the answer given, for years we guessed at how things were, if it's so simple, why the need to have to even search for the information.

that's been the go with everything since the start of the game, that's the whole idea behind skiller tools. You match the ql of the tool against the difficulty of the task, and vary accordingly.

 

Currently making cordage is the same as mining gold, so ask a miner what ql pick they'd use to mine gold for skill, it won't be a 90ql rare pick.

[Makarus 458]

You wont lose channelling skill by depriesting.

 

100 faith is a milestone, with a time investment. Which is why I aoways planned to grind before priesting. Makarus was always intended to be a Fo or Mag priest, depending on which map I wound up on.

 

Maybe more emphasis should be placed on the pre-priest skill focus when the subject is broached.(tutorial) It is a huge commitment, one whos limitations almost forces a crafter alt/main.

One of the big reasons priests ARE typically oart of alt hordes is that limitation.

If more players focused on building power character pre-priest, this would have less impact than what has been said above.

I do not recommend priesting to anyone with below 50 in a small spread of crafting skills, 90 in harvest skills, and the basics of your priestly skillset. (Favor items)

Otherwise, your stats are weak and will always be weaker than someone who worked it right.

 

Note: i have two 90ish faith vyns, (90ish chan) and a spread of fo/mags with varying degrees of skills and stats based on what they did pre-priest versus post-priest.

 

I din't mind varying my ropetool, either. Making a low ql one is easy with one of the alts, and enchanting with 90+coc is easy enough. Then you keep it going like literally every other skill levels for every other class of character.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Makarus
dangolbamboozleddagnabbit

[Pashka 707]

I do know you do not lose channeling if you depriest.  I also know how long it takes to get ANY skill to 99.  To tell someone well  you need to depriest and not be what you want to be for such a long time just because we couldn't figure out a better way is insane!

 

I will not tell any new priest that is the way to go.  Chopped veggies is it right now.  May not be for the long haul because as soon as it is seen as too easy that will be taken away too and treated as an exploit.

 

Edit.  Just a side note.  My priest in particular.  I have 90 farming, 99 ropemaking, over 90 channeling, 90 meditation.  It was all done as a priest because they were all things that a priest needed.  90 plus skills do not happen overnight.  But guess we need to have that easy button now.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Pashka

[Makarus 458]

I do feel ya, Pashka.

They nuked taming, which is a huge part of why I play any game. I still stand by my suggestion that priesting is always given with some words of advice. It is as hard or harder than ws or coal making.

(And the prereq skill grind are why I am not already superpriest father mak. Still grinding in my slow, add way.)

Edited December 11, 2016 by Makarus

[Pashka 707]

Thanks.  It isn't even me that is in the bad position because I never had any thoughts or hallucinations of going to 100 on ropemaking.  My hard work is done and I can still get on with life.  But the priest with 50 skill or 70 skill?  Not a chance in hell.  They just need to abort ropes.  I didn't know about the taming nerf which is super sad too.  And we just thought that they were attempting to make a few things easier.  Seems of late it is just see how complicated and difficult they can make our lives.  Guess going from 1k active players to maybe 2-300 actual players wasn't enough for them.

[Retrograde 12,013]

cordage rope was made easier, the priest with 50 or 70skill can now make much higher  ql cordage rope  than they did before.

 

They can also skill up to 90+ ropemaking exactly the same as before if they choose to do so.

 

If they wish to go an alternate favour route, they may do so.

 

what about this is hard?

[Wargasm 1,928]

 

It's not "hard", it's false.  Ropemaking is pointless now.

[Hailene 362]

3 minutes ago, Pashka said:

Thanks.  It isn't even me that is in the bad position because I never had any thoughts or hallucinations of going to 100 on ropemaking.  My hard work is done and I can still get on with life.  But the priest with 50 skill or 70 skill?  Not a chance in hell.

 

You're not reading what people are saying. I'm going to throw imaginary numbers, but they'll illustrate the point.

 

Imagine you have a priest with 50 skill before the change. At 60 difficulty, the priest needs a 70QL ropetool to get optimal skill gains.

 

Now imagine you are a priest with 50 skill after the change. At 40 difficulty, the priest needs a 55QL ropetool to get optimal skill gains.

 

You're still getting optimal skill gains, just the ropetool QL to get it has moved down a bit. If the difficulty is really equivalent to gold, then a 30-35ish QL ropetool is needed to get optimal skill gains around 90 is needed.

[Pashka 707]

When you hit 99 in blacksmithing from nails, let me know.  Then we can discuss it K?  Until then you have lost whatever part of your mind that you might have laid claim to before.