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Zekezor

Meditation Rework

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45 minutes ago, elroth said:

maybe use karma to change abilities later on

 

that seems like a really good idea, its not for free and its not that hard to get either, +1

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Throwing out some rough different ideas

 

Scout: +10% Speed boost to horse being ridden. -5% to CR

1 hr duration. cd 2hr

 

Archer: +15% Archery damage and accuracy. +10% effectiveness to studded, cloth and leather, -20% to plate/chain/scale/drake.

1 hr duration. cd 2hr

 

Shield Wall: (While within 4 tiles of at least 2 other players with Shield Wall active) +100% combat defensive, -40%? speed

1hr duration, cd 15min, can be turned off early.

 

Slinger / Spear Thrower:  +15% Throwing damage.

1 hr duration. cd 2hr

 

Mongol Horse Archer: Can archer while moving. -15% CR.

2 hr duration. cd 1hr

 

Post more ideas wurmians

 

Edited by Omar

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17 minutes ago, Omar said:

Scout: +10% Speed boost to horse being ridden. -5% to CR

1 hr duration. cd 2hr

 

This seems to go against everyone complaining about horse speed as is (despite the issue coming from the reduction of archery range)

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7 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

 

This seems to go against everyone complaining about horse speed as is (despite the issue coming from the reduction of archery range)

 

Yea u right. But its just a general idea. Perhaps just +5% speed -10% CR? or something?

or +3%

or making your horse gear effectively rare for the duration. Already rare not have an effect.

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On 12/9/2016 at 0:55 AM, Zekezor said:

Web armour merely gives the same speed restriction as hurt status which the wounded person would be inflicted with. so no, thats not the case.

you been playing this game how long, and you still don't know how it works?

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2 hours ago, TradingAlt said:

you been playing this game how long, and you still don't know how it works?

 

it was changed as part of major balance updates a while ago...

 

Just want to say I don't like the idea of trees that can leave out options you can't take, switching with karma or whatever doesn't really help that.

I like the idea of trees though where you unlock the ability at x level, and advancing levels increases the strength of said ability, this way everyone on the same path has the same equal options

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7 hours ago, TradingAlt said:

you been playing this game how long, and you still don't know how it works?

Ditto.

4 hours ago, MrGARY said:

it was changed as part of major balance updates a while ago...

 

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Web armour still slows attack speed. If a player is chasing another player not only will they have web armour effect when they hit, they will also have reduced CR for moving. This combined with gank bonus, will really make it hard for the 1 really strong player to kill a knowledge group with weaker accounts. Also the user in defensive stance who is being focused does not incur the movement penalty.

 

Which was what this whole discussion was about.

Edited by TradingAlt

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1 minute ago, TradingAlt said:

Web armour still slows attack speed. If a player is chasing another player not only will they have web armour effect when they hit, they will also have reduced CR for moving. This combined with gank bonus, will really make it hard for the 1 really strong player to kill a knowledge group with weaker accounts.

 

Which was what this whole discussion was about.

Well you added stuff which was untrue and thus corrected.

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On 12/11/2016 at 7:04 AM, TradingAlt said:

Web armour still slows attack speed. If a player is chasing another player not only will they have web armour effect when they hit, they will also have reduced CR for moving. This combined with gank bonus, will really make it hard for the 1 really strong player to kill a knowledge group with weaker accounts. Also the user in defensive stance who is being focused does not incur the movement penalty.

 

Which was what this whole discussion was about.

 

BTW


Gank bonus doesn't exist and hasn't since 2014. It actually gives a CR BUFF to the person being attacked. Refer to server patchnotes 140144

 

The CR debuff for moving also does not apply if you are in defensive stance.

 

Edited by Propheteer
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Its a debuff while moving not a buff, and I also pointed out in my previous post that defensive stance removes it.

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wait did zekezor just say that web armor and hurting status are the same or did i read something wrong

sounds like the time he tried to argue with me about boatspeeds.

It was changed but Jukimo is still right.
e: reworded bc just woke up

Difference is 5km/s to 1.5km/s

Edited by Soil

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15 hours ago, Soil said:

wait did zekezor just say that web armor and hurting status are the same or did i read something wrong

Hmmm... Seems WA's code changed in strength after the update where the 2 componenets dont stack. Was unaware of that.

While I don't get anywhere near 1.5km in drake, it's still slightly diffrent from hurt status.

mah bad.

Edited by Zekezor

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2 hours ago, Zekezor said:

Hmmm... Seems WA's code changed in strength after the update where the 2 componenets dont stack. Was unaware of that.

While I don't get anywhere near 1.5km in drake, it's still slightly diffrent from hurt status.

mah bad.

If only there were patch notes..... you know before changes get made? like any other video game with thousands of people playing.

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Meh.. simple question to Budda. Throwing away the old system completely and replacing it with something else.. there has to be a very good explanation why. What is broken with current meditation, that requires complete overhaul?

 

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18 minutes ago, rixk said:

Meh.. simple question to Budda. Throwing away the old system completely and replacing it with something else.. there has to be a very good explanation why. What is broken with current meditation, that requires complete overhaul?

 

 

It's not very balanced, and any sort of balancing we'd want to look at at this stage is "too late" and will just cause more problems than it's worth (see: Refresh a few months ago). Without doing a full overhaul of it, there are still changes that need to be made (like DR scaling in PoI) and tweaked - but every change that could be made is going to be met with complaints and demands for free path changes etc etc. Better to have another full look at the entire feature, see what could be done better and do it all at once rather than spreading out more tweaks and changes that demand path changes over months/years.

 

It also ties into the UI overhaul where I'm aiming to flesh out a bunch of seemingly half-completed features, or things that most players (or new players) don't realise exists or never stumble across them to use/take advantage of them. E.g. with meditation there is nothing really in the client showing whats possible - there is the skill you see, and maybe you'll go looking in the wiki to see what meditating is - otherwise you'll maybe stumble across it via chat or randomly making a meditation rug. Having a proper place for it in the client, clearly showing the path and possible abilities/bonuses, and what out of them you can work towards adds a sort of tangible goal for some players, something that can be worked towards with visible progress instead of the odd event message every few weeks when you level up on your path or having an extra option in some menu hidden away somewhere.

 

Edit: It's also not completely throwing out the current system to replace it. The idea currently is to add more possible abilities for each path to allow for more choice for everyone - with mechanics involved that relate to that.

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20 minutes ago, Budda said:

(see: Refresh a few months ago)

*psstt*

If you modify refresh so it add CCFP at higher levels of love people will love it and random low tier alts wont work.

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8 minutes ago, Budda said:

 

It's not very balanced, and any sort of balancing we'd want to look at at this stage is "too late" and will just cause more problems than it's worth (see: Refresh a few months ago). Without doing a full overhaul of it, there are still changes that need to be made (like DR scaling in PoI) and tweaked - but every change that could be made is going to be met with complaints and demands for free path changes etc etc. Better to have another full look at the entire feature, see what could be done better and do it all at once rather than spreading out more tweaks and changes that demand path changes over months/years.

 

It also ties into the UI overhaul where I'm aiming to flesh out a bunch of seemingly half-completed features, or things that most players (or new players) don't realise exists or never stumble across them to use/take advantage of them. E.g. with meditation there is nothing really in the client showing whats possible - there is the skill you see, and maybe you'll go looking in the wiki to see what meditating is - otherwise you'll maybe stumble across it via chat or randomly making a meditation rug. Having a proper place for it in the client, clearly showing the path and possible abilities/bonuses, and what out of them you can work towards adds a sort of tangible goal for some players, something that can be worked towards with visible progress instead of the odd event message every few weeks when you level up on your path or having an extra option in some menu hidden away somewhere.

 

Edit: It's also not completely throwing out the current system to replace it. The idea currently is to add more possible abilities for each path to allow for more choice for everyone - with mechanics involved that relate to that.

Fair enough.. that's pretty good explanation. My worry currently is, that, looking at the people, who are dominating here in this topic (no offence), that meditating will become another combat-focused mechanic, which skills/abilities would be better suited to tweak the current priest system. Not every path has to be balanced for PvP. There are many approaches to the game, combat/pvp is just one of many. Currently what is good, is the fact, that current meditating gives something for everyone, no matter what their focus is. I hope this stays the same and when you start working on it, don't forget that all aspects of the game should be covered by meditation.

 

Your second paragraph, I fully agree with that. Although, try to keep some mystery too. No information is not good, but laying out all the information to level 1 about what awaits him at level 20 is also not so good.. This is delicate thing to tweak tho. :)

 

PS. Just wanted to make a remark about refresh few months ago, as you brought it up. You guys took level 4 ability and made it a high level ability(99 nut, which is current functionality was about to be given at level 10+, can't remember any more which level exactly). Yes, there was refresh at lower nut earlier, but... current level 4 functionality was becoming available at very high level according to that plan. And THAT was the problem. Anywho, that's just offtopic, :) Current refresh/food is pretty good symbiosis.

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Thanks for the explanation budda, I'm very curious to see what half finished features are finally finished. Best of luck with balancing meditation, I agree that having 1 pve and 1 pvp path isn't good. Still after all these years and having actually played through the med pve tree myself I do get a bit nervous when such wide changes are bandied about ^_^. I shall look forward to your changes with great interest!

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11 minutes ago, rixk said:

Fair enough.. that's pretty good explanation. My worry currently is, that, looking at the people, who are dominating here in this topic (no offence), that meditating will become another combat-focused mechanic, which skills/abilities would be better suited to tweak the current priest system. Not every path has to be balanced for PvP. There are many approaches to the game, combat/pvp is just one of many. Currently what is good, is the fact, that current meditating gives something for everyone, no matter what their focus is. I hope this stays the same and when you start working on it, don't forget that all aspects of the game should be covered by meditation.

 

Your second paragraph, I fully agree with that. Although, try to keep some mystery too. No information is not good, but laying out all the information to level 1 about what awaits him at level 20 is also not so good.. This is delicate thing to tweak tho. :)

 

PS. Just wanted to make a remark about refresh few months ago, as you brought it up. You guys took level 4 ability and made it a high level ability(99 nut, which is current functionality was about to be given at level 10+, can't remember any more which level exactly). Yes, there was refresh at lower nut earlier, but... current level 4 functionality was becoming available at very high level according to that plan. And THAT was the problem. Anywho, that's just offtopic, :) Current refresh/food is pretty good symbiosis.

 

if you would have taken your time to read the proposed changes, you would have realized that every path has benefits for PvE and PvP

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2 minutes ago, Quicktor said:

 

if you would have taken your time to read the proposed changes, you would have realized that every path has benefits for PvE and PvP

I did read it and that is what brought me to my point, why give someone PvP bonuses, when they aren't interested in PvP?

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13 minutes ago, rixk said:

I did read it and that is what brought me to my point, why give someone PvP bonuses, when they aren't interested in PvP?

 

why give someone PvE bonuses, when they aren't interested in PvE?

ye right, cause why not....look, if both sides have PvE and PvP bonuses there is a bigger portion of people that would be happy :)

 

you don't have to use the PvP abilities just as I don't have to use the PvE abilities if I don't want to, the big word here is CHOICES though

Edited by Quicktor
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2 hours ago, Budda said:

 

It's not very balanced, and any sort of balancing we'd want to look at at this stage is "too late" and will just cause more problems than it's worth (see: Refresh a few months ago). Without doing a full overhaul of it, there are still changes that need to be made (like DR scaling in PoI) and tweaked - but every change that could be made is going to be met with complaints and demands for free path changes etc etc. Better to have another full look at the entire feature, see what could be done better and do it all at once rather than spreading out more tweaks and changes that demand path changes over months/years.

 

It also ties into the UI overhaul where I'm aiming to flesh out a bunch of seemingly half-completed features, or things that most players (or new players) don't realise exists or never stumble across them to use/take advantage of them. E.g. with meditation there is nothing really in the client showing whats possible - there is the skill you see, and maybe you'll go looking in the wiki to see what meditating is - otherwise you'll maybe stumble across it via chat or randomly making a meditation rug. Having a proper place for it in the client, clearly showing the path and possible abilities/bonuses, and what out of them you can work towards adds a sort of tangible goal for some players, something that can be worked towards with visible progress instead of the odd event message every few weeks when you level up on your path or having an extra option in some menu hidden away somewhere.

 

Edit: It's also not completely throwing out the current system to replace it. The idea currently is to add more possible abilities for each path to allow for more choice for everyone - with mechanics involved that relate to that.

I don't fully see it that way when people use many of the abilities from the current system.. Just pvpers are the ones seeing the balance issues where SOTG is king. If all paths had a % of DR it doesn't all have to be the same then there wouldn't be much of an issue and tweaks would be all that is actually needed. And an addition of an ability for insanity.

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