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Kadmint

Path of Love Refresh useless?

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4 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

The fact the CCFP system has more benefits than the refresh system does not mean the refresh system was nerfed.

 

The effect of refreshing other people has been raised and is being looked at,

 

Of course, there is the possibility of simply going ahead with the previous system or one similar now that many have experienced the CCFP system and might have a better understanding of how it works.

 

We'll continue to look at it.

Problem isn't CCFP system having more benefits, that is perfectly fine.. Problem is refresh working as dispel and removing those benefits. :)

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A big problem is that you seldom say more than "A" and when asked for a "B" you toss in stuff like "references".

Being unclear on details will always cause riots, and deleting topics also.

You should have explained better what was in the works, then we could have given adequate critics instead of rioting over and over.

 

At least get a trashbin so people can see deleted topics for a while.

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everyone here talking about refresh and i just wanna meditate for my question without being slapped

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It's hard to say more than A, when B hasn't likely been discussed or mentioned.

 

Back on point, Greyfox has more great points to make I'm sure.

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I like the fact that refresh still works. I bought a 90ql test meal that gives me 100% ccfp but I don't like it for grinding, also looking for recipes and doing hfc is not appealing to me so I'll stick to rares and pol for now.

I fail to understand where the nerf is as long as it works the same way as before. It's not included in the ccfp stuff, true, so it's a bit less powerful as it was before the ccfp, but not by much imo. If you invest the time for hfc and recipe search you will get the benefits of the system,  otherwise you stick to what you always did, sac a rare or click refresh, and get on with your wurming..

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7 hours ago, Cecci said:

You are aware that refresh spell and refresh from meditation are different?

 

Which is why I linked it. All the runes are spells not meditation abilities.

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5 hours ago, Greyfox said:

They nerfed Refresh even though they said they wouldn't.   Year of the Nerfs.   Can we get rid of Budda yet?   All he has done since being in control is wreck Wurm.   Nerf-Nerf-Nerf..... That is Budda.
Rolf, if you are reading this, you left Wurm in bad hands.   Please come back, at least short term and set things right. These volunteer devs are ruining Wurm.   They nerf more then they enrich game play.  
I love Wurm, but I have no plans to renew my prem when it runs out.   I'm not going to pay to play "Budda Nerf Online".
I would really like to keep playing, and keep paying, but with Budda at the helm,  I might aswell get out when my prem expires.  

 

Really?  I disagree.  I really like that there's some communication of how stuff works now.  I like that there's some discussion around what's coming before it arrives.  I like that there's some attempt to rebalance some of the outlier functionality, despite the amount of play kvetching.  It's not perfect, but it's getting a lot better.  And the level of QoL improvements we've seen under Budda have been fantastic.  I, for one, think Budda and team are doing great work, and I love the cooking update. 

 

I'm currently PoL, but may change over to something else at some point; TBH, I usually forget to use my refresh anyway, I mostly took it for enchanted grass.

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4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

The fact the CCFP system has more benefits than the refresh system does not mean the refresh system was nerfed.

 

The effect of refreshing other people has been raised and is being looked at,

 

Of course, there is the possibility of simply going ahead with the previous system or one similar now that many have experienced the CCFP system and might have a better understanding of how it works.

 

We'll continue to look at it.

 

I get that, refresh was not nerfed, but with those splendid meals we have to choose from, I doubt I will be sac'ing rocks and hitting refresh ever again, the benefits of a balanced diet greatly outweighs the old system. Most likely everyone regrets the lynching of the messenger when it was announced not to long ago that the plans to eliminate the need for sac's/refresh where in the works. The new system is fantastic, but we are left with old features that should of been put to the wayside.

 

Granted when in a bind for a snack, the dumping your rare rock in the altar is still a good option.

 

I just no longer see the need of being path of love, as the daily refresh was always my goto plan for buffing the food bar, but no longer it is.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

The fact the CCFP system has more benefits than the refresh system does not mean the refresh system was nerfed.

 

This is it exactly. Those that use Refresh want also the benefits of the CCFP added to it, so they attempt to justify this by stating that Refresh was nerfed when in fact it hasn't changed at all. Now there is a choice to make, use one or the other.

 

The thing is that many "Refreshers" have discovered that the CCFP system is superior to it in some ways, so they are using this "nerf" façade in an attempt to join both systems together. Maybe just being straight up about this objective would produce better results?

 

=Ayes=

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18 minutes ago, Ayes said:

 

This is it exactly. Those that use Refresh want also the benefits of the CCFP added to it, so they attempt to justify this by stating that Refresh was nerfed when in fact it hasn't changed at all. Now there is a choice to make, use one or the other.

 

The thing is that many "Refreshers" have discovered that the CCFP system is superior to it in some ways, so they are using this "nerf" façade in an attempt to join both systems together. Maybe just being straight up about this objective would produce better results?

 

=Ayes=

 

But the benefits aren't even close the same... So you cannot really just "use one or the another", as it's simple that eating meals gives you better benefits. And using refresh, which is ADDITIONAL skill from meditation path (so not everyone have it!) now actually negates the CCFP. Does any other meditation path skill negate something useful in the game that you have to really stop using it? I don't think meditation skill should have such purpose that you can't use it because it has negative effect on your skilling for example. And for sure I justify to have refresh better, because I increased my meditation skill for it. Isn't that kind a the whole idea of skilling in general, getting the stuff what everyone might not have and what you can find useful?

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12 hours ago, Retrograde said:

The effect of refreshing other people has been raised and is being looked at,

 

Well thats my qualms sorted then; kind of hoping that for once a change in the name of balance will benefit me in some way instead of hosing me.

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10 hours ago, Rasu said:

 

Which is why I linked it. All the runes are spells not meditation abilities.

 

nope the refresh rune is the med ability, and it's intended

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5 hours ago, Kadmint said:

 

But the benefits aren't even close the same... So you cannot really just "use one or the another", as it's simple that eating meals gives you better benefits. And using refresh, which is ADDITIONAL skill from meditation path (so not everyone have it!) now actually negates the CCFP. Does any other meditation path skill negate something useful in the game that you have to really stop using it? I don't think meditation skill should have such purpose that you can't use it because it has negative effect on your skilling for example. And for sure I justify to have refresh better, because I increased my meditation skill for it. Isn't that kind a the whole idea of skilling in general, getting the stuff what everyone might not have and what you can find useful?

 

Refresh requires 15 meditation skill. That's low enough you don't even need to wait in between meditations.

 

I do agree with letting people with PoL swap paths, though.

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10 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

nope the refresh rune is the med ability, and it's intended

 

Wait why the hell would they do that. I remember being told it was all spells o.O.

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People screamed bloody murder when there was talk about changing how rares and refresh worked, ok. The devs said not going to touch it, now people scream bloody murder again because it wasn't touched. Wurm never fails to amaze me.

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7 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

 

Refresh requires 15 meditation skill. That's low enough you don't even need to wait in between meditations.

 

I do agree with letting people with PoL swap paths, though.

 

Yes, does not require much. 

 

But I'm annoyed by the fact that things have to be changed the way that makes players need to change their ways to play the game. Like Nahjo priests got free transfer to other priesthood after making crops universal and less powerful saccing item. So when they basically make one of the Path of Love skills useless, I should get free transfer to like PoK? I don't think that's the long-term method to roll a game to destroy some features and make players to move more popular features.

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2 minutes ago, Pingpong said:

People screamed bloody murder when there was talk about changing how rares and refresh worked, ok. The devs said not going to touch it, now people scream bloody murder again because it wasn't touched. Wurm never fails to amaze me.

 

Sad thing is that as I actively follow forums, I totally missed this dicussion. But I'm sure many people didn't really know what was coming up when they voted against it and some may regret their choice, as noted on this thread earlier. 

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50 minutes ago, Kadmint said:

 

Sad thing is that as I actively follow forums, I totally missed this dicussion. But I'm sure many people didn't really know what was coming up when they voted against it and some may regret their choice, as noted on this thread earlier. 

 

It was not a vote, we simply shot the messenger.

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Posted for Pashka.

 

I have used some meals but again as I posted earlier, these do not get me to 99 nutrition.  This is something that I want to have.  We were told sacing a rare would bite you in the ass on the refresh and nutrition.  Doing a supreme for the random skill gain game would still bite you in the ass again.  OMG I guess a fantastic would get you where you want but those do not land in your lap every day.  Yes there was opposition.  This is what happens when you throw ###### against the wall to see what sticks.  Things should be tested and vetted before you throw them at the public saying oh guess what.  You have to know not everyone is going to love all this cooking system that is so complicated and requires so many different items and things.  Hell I still haven't seen bees yet and I'm guessing the season to find them is over.  I do understand that the cooking system was tested but that is with having every single possible ingredient you could want along with all of the items to use.  Noone bothered remembering that with meditation that you would get a refresh if you asked for it or not.  That isn't an option.  Again, it is that everything wasn't considered or looked at.  And it is still being ignored.

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On 29/11/2016 at 9:18 PM, Ecrir said:

 

In one of the earlier weekly news the devs mentioned that they wanted to adjust refresh on the amount of nutrition it gave. People objected as they saw it as a nerf, so instead the devs said they would do (these are their exact words, see the linked news topic below for the origin of the quote):

 

"After considerable feedback we have decided to not go ahead with these changes, refresh will still give 99% nutrition, but there will be other bonuses and incentive to cook. "

 

Refresh right now is exactly what they mentioned it would be in that news topic. That people instead read that refresh would not be changed is likely because they wanted to read that refresh would not be changed and because they did not really understand fccp at the time.

The version before the objections gave less nutrition and had no mention of not receiving other bonuses, so while open to interpretation, this might mean that they originally wanted to nerf nutrition and let you keep fccp with refresh. If this is so then perhaps they need to revert back to that intended version?

 

 

 

 

Yup we were played.

 

The incentive to cook is to raise the CCFPs not be punished for having refresh knocking out all CCFPs when using it. A good balance would be to have refresh no effect CCFPs at all. But no. SO now we have refresh with people thinking "I've got good cooking why would I use my PoL at all when I get punished for having both Refresh and Good cooking. Can I now get a free change to another path".

 

I really don't get how this is so hard. You devs have played for years but seen to miss the boat when i comes to balance, again and again.

 

"After considerable feedback we have decided to not go ahead with these changes, refresh will still give 99% nutrition, but there will be other bonuses and incentive to cook. "

 

Yes, the bonus is to raise CCFP's, refresh didn't raise them at all, why make it to delete them all together?

 

SO this quote should read ----

 

"After considerable feedback we have decided to not go ahead with these changes, refresh will still give 99% nutrition, but we will make it so you wont want to use refresh at all, as it wipes out anything you achieve while using the new cooking system"

 

 

 

Edited by Milosanx
edit

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Our original proposition was because 99 nutrition AND the bonuses from CCFP were quite high, and clearly became yet another dominant strategy, in the interest of balance we played the two against each other to tie in together. Based on feedback, it was clear players wanted it separate, so we kept the 99 nutrition but made the payoff the resetting of CCFP.

 

Since it has landed, CCFP has undergone some tweaking and balancing in itself (the body stamina thing for one), which means that having 99 nutrition along with maxed CCFP is not as unbalanced as it was in the original proposal.

 

It's pretty clear that since players have gotten their hands on it, it makes a lot more sense and is a whole lot less confusing to many (although I understand it still being confusing to some). On top of this is also the fact that meditation refreshes and the ability to refresh other people raises issues within themselves.

 

After discussion with the dev team about all of this we raised a few possibilities, but none as simple as allowing refresh to not reduce CCFP, so that's what we'll be going ahead with in an update planned for tomorrow, refresh will perform all the previous functionality and not reset CCFP.

 

We'll also be boosting nutrition from eating hot meals and some cold (there's similar bonuses for things that should be cold, no one likes a hot salad) to hit 99 nutrition as well.

 

TL;DR

Since the CCFP system is tweaked down in its bonuses, refresh will be changed to not reset it in the next update. Hot food and some cold foods will now allow hitting 99 nutrition much more easily so you don't lose out by not refreshing.

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14 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Hot food and some cold foods will now allow hitting 99 nutrition much more easily so you don't lose out by not refreshing

 

So refresh still will be pretty useless, but in a better way :^)

 

Thank you!

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13 hours ago, Retrograde said:

After discussion with the dev team about all of this we raised a few possibilities, but none as simple as allowing refresh to not reduce CCFP, so that's what we'll be going ahead with in an update planned for tomorrow, refresh will perform all the previous functionality and not reset CCFP.

 

We'll also be boosting nutrition from eating hot meals and some cold (there's similar bonuses for things that should be cold, no one likes a hot salad) to hit 99 nutrition as well.

 

TL;DR

Since the CCFP system is tweaked down in its bonuses, refresh will be changed to not reset it in the next update. Hot food and some cold foods will now allow hitting 99 nutrition much more easily so you don't lose out by not refreshing.

 

Works for me and its a good compromise between refresh and cooking.

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That is good compromise indeed. Cooking is still superior to refresh. At the same time you can still live happily using refresh. Also you can use refresh even when you are away from home without worrying about resetting CCFP buffs to zero.

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14 hours ago, Retrograde said:

After discussion with the dev team about all of this we raised a few possibilities, but none as simple as allowing refresh to not reduce CCFP, so that's what we'll be going ahead with in an update planned for tomorrow, refresh will perform all the previous functionality and not reset CCFP.

 

We'll also be boosting nutrition from eating hot meals and some cold (there's similar bonuses for things that should be cold, no one likes a hot salad) to hit 99 nutrition as well.

 

TL;DR

Since the CCFP system is tweaked down in its bonuses, refresh will be changed to not reset it in the next update. Hot food and some cold foods will now allow hitting 99 nutrition much more easily so you don't lose out by not refreshing.

 

This is very good news. Thank you for hearing us out! :) 

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