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Kadmint

Path of Love Refresh useless?

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Hello!

 

As I have Path of Love level 9 in meditation, I started to concern that I find now Refresh skill basically useless. Before the update, I used Refresh almost daily and ate seldom. But after the update, it drains CCFP to 0%, so no point using it anymore, even for 99% nutrition. Is anyone else feeling like Path of Love has lost it's uniqueness and usability? Is there something that could be done to it, as now it feels like I should change path for no actual good skills (Enchanted Grass only for keeping animals happy and Healing Hands, well, healing more).

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it is still useable, it has an effect.  However that cost is now at emptying of your other attributes.

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Just now, Tallios said:

it is still useable, it has an effect.  However that cost is now at emptying of your other attributes.

 

But what is the "effect", except refilling your stamina bar, water on food? I see CCFP drain too harsh and not wanting me to use refresh at all anymore.

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I still use it plenty on some of my characters, but not all. It has just become a trade-off instead of a no brainer, which is probably a good thing.

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Just now, Kadmint said:

 

But what is the "effect", except refilling your stamina bar, water on food? I see CCFP drain too harsh and not wanting me to use refresh at all anymore.

oh yeah, I've ditched the path of love, so i don't "accidently" do it

 

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At this point, it would be nice if Resfresh just refilled food, water, and stamina. Lose the nutrition boost and the emptying out of the CCFP bars.

 

I think the reason it empties CCFP is because you could otherwise cheese the system by eating until your CCFP bars are full, and then refreshing to get maximum nutrition as well. Eliminating the nutrition boost would make this moot.

 

Granted, I think at this point nutrition in general could be removed and Refresh changed, but that's just me.

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It's not really useless as it does exactly the SAME THING as it did before the cooking update. It's just doesn't do anything beneficial for the new food attributes. The reason it depletes it is to prevent people abusing it by maxing the attributes and then relying on refresh to keep nutrition topped up as well as everything else. When it was first announced, refresh was going to be nerfed to 50%? nutrition but we all complained it made Love path worthless so they changed it. That may have had a knock on affect on how the new food attributes were also affected. (eg. prior to us complaining, refresh could have reset nutrition to 50% but increased the food attributes to 25% for example). Instead we kept our 5% skill bonus, but miss out on the other food bonuses.

 

I guess refresh killing all the new food attributes to 0 is a bit severe, if you have just put in the work to raise them to begin with, but I guess 'instant 5% skill bonus' is quite a nice freebie at level 4 meditation.

 

The only thing I hated with the nutrition system is once you got to 100% food, it was difficult to raise nutrition anymore because you didn't want to eat any more, even if your 99ql hot meal still offered an extra 15% nutrition. I can't remember if it allowed you to continue raising it by constantly eating the meal after you were full but this would waste a lot of meal for no reason. I haven't played in a while so playing this all off memory.

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It's rather amusing how often the word "abuse" is used by those who hardly understand what abuse is. Fill up your CCFP and then refresh to 99 nutrition? Abuse! Actually... no. CCFP will drop, and you'll have to eat something to replenish them, saying goodbye to your nutrition. It is an advantage, if your sessions are short. But the very point of various perks is providing advantage in various fields. Please remember that freelos can only refresh themselves.

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13 minutes ago, MetalDragon said:

It's not really useless as it does exactly the SAME THING as it did before the cooking update. It's just doesn't do anything beneficial for the new food attributes. The reason it depletes it is to prevent people abusing it by maxing the attributes and then relying on refresh to keep nutrition topped up as well as everything else. When it was first announced, refresh was going to be nerfed to 50%? nutrition but we all complained it made Love path worthless so they changed it. That may have had a knock on affect on how the new food attributes were also affected. (eg. prior to us complaining, refresh could have reset nutrition to 50% but increased the food attributes to 25% for example). Instead we kept our 5% skill bonus, but miss out on the other food bonuses.

 

I guess refresh killing all the new food attributes to 0 is a bit severe, if you have just put in the work to raise them to begin with, but I guess 'instant 5% skill bonus' is quite a nice freebie at level 4 meditation.

 

The only thing I hated with the nutrition system is once you got to 100% food, it was difficult to raise nutrition anymore because you didn't want to eat any more, even if your 99ql hot meal still offered an extra 15% nutrition. I can't remember if it allowed you to continue raising it by constantly eating the meal after you were full but this would waste a lot of meal for no reason. I haven't played in a while so playing this all off memory.

 

But here's the thing: not wanting it to fill CCFP as well, but not just drain it all. There is no way to max out now the attributes using refresh, as you have to eat something else and then the nutrition lowers anyway... so same result, just keep eating food and refresh is not needed. And as zigozag also said.

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3 minutes ago, Kadmint said:

 

But here's the thing: not wanting it to fill CCFP as well, but not just drain it all. There is no way to max out now the attributes using refresh, as you have to eat something else and then the nutrition lowers anyway... so same result, just keep eating food and refresh is not needed. And as zigozag also said.

 

I can eat a 25ql kebasia and fill virtually everything and then pop refresh to get all my nutrition up to 99% which would make it an abuse.  If it worked without zero'ing the CCFP.  I'm fairly certain this would be against what the dev's wanted.

 

As for using Refresh, it still does exactly what it did before.  I wrecked my CCFP with it's use and it's taken a long time to empty it to eat something worthwhile.

Edited by Tallios

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5 minutes ago, Tallios said:

 

I can eat a 25ql kebasia and fill virtually everything and then pop refresh to get all my nutrition up to 99% which would make it an abuse.  If it worked without zero'ing the CCFP

 

How is it abuse as PoF refresh is completely different skill? Then it's more like completing your nutrition than being an abuse, used to make your nutrition slightly better than players without PoF. I believe absolutely no one wants to use refresh now if they want to have the benefits from CCFP. Having PoF and refresh should not be the optional one, like using one or the another, not both as they drain each other, as it is different skill.

 

EDIT: And just to make clear, no one here has stated that CCFP should be refilled with refresh, that is way too OP. All I am asking is that is draining to 0% too harsh?

Edited by Kadmint

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12 minutes ago, Tallios said:

 

I can eat a 25ql kebasia and fill virtually everything and then pop refresh to get all my nutrition up to 99% which would make it an abuse.  If it worked without zero'ing the CCFP.  I'm fairly certain this would be against what the dev's wanted.

 

As for using Refresh, it still does exactly what it did before.  I wrecked my CCFP with it's use and it's taken a long time to empty it to eat something worthwhile.

 

Yes, and because of the update it has come clear that using Refresh is more like a punishment, not advantage that you should get by getting higher levels of meditation path. You are one example of it as you got rid of it. Why? You found it useless.

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PoL needs some help, but Refresh is not useless, it is just as strong as ever. You simply have a choice now, Refresh or Cooking.

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To be fair refresh was pretty broken in the first place.

 

To be honest this is the 2nd big nerf to PoL this year (the last one being the decay of enchanted tiles) and the 3rd in my memory (enchanted trees being useless).  The exact words of the devs were "Refresh will not be changed", which is not the case at all since it now has the "set to 0 effect" which I think will errode trust between users and devs further.  The previous two points are forgivable given the circumstances (PoL being overpowered originally and community hostility to change) however the real killer is that its also now possible to grief someone with refresh (use it on someone who just filled their bars) and that is just plain wrong.

 

All in all refresh has been nerfed which was needed (I lived on refresh for 5 years, thats just broken), but nerfed in entirely the wrong way (it can now be used for griefing).  I can't say I know what the right way is, but it needs looking into.

 

Overall I think meditation needs a rethink with more content, some broken content being replaced.

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6 minutes ago, Darmalus said:

PoL needs some help, but Refresh is not useless, it is just as strong as ever. You simply have a choice now, Refresh or Cooking.

 

Choice of what? I know that other features are useful (stamina instant refill in tough situation, water refill, food refill), but now you get 99% nutrition (which gives you really nothing as you can get 86% by eating meals) in a cost of faster drain of water, food, no SB bonus, faster stamina drain. How is that a choice I ask.

Edited by Kadmint

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Just think of it as an emergency button. Its all I ever used it for when I was on PoL.

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1 minute ago, Rasu said:

Just think of it as an emergency button. Its all I ever used it for when I was on PoL.

 

Yes, used it a few times in that way myself. But you can get for example from other paths skills that has no such effect of your gameplay, or they even boost your gameplay. Nor they are used seldom because you have to think "carefully when to use, because the benefits have penalties". I think if there is a feature in the game, it shouldn't be used seldom or left alone because "yea I switched to PoK like everyone else".

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1 minute ago, Rasu said:

It is hands down the best "first" ability you get

 

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Sure it has been the best, but would you use it instead of eating meals? Because that used to be the point of refreshment, or else I have misunderstood the idea of refreshment.

Edited by Kadmint

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All Im asking to put thought is that it would be no penalty to CCFP system, but also would not give any advantage to it. Like only affecting to stamina bar (as it seems to be one way people use it). How to accomplish that, I don't know and is the very reason I posted this topic.

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There's not really much abuse involved. you raise your ccfp to 100 Then  use refresh to get your nutrion to 100%?

Ok, so what? ccfp is going to gradually decrease, it doesn't work like nutrition.
So you'll have to eat again to refill the ccfp way before nutrition will go down, and you'll have to either ruin your 100 nutrition by eating over it or letting your ccfp bars go down without eating.

They way it works now makes it a pretty useless skill, getting 100 nutrition 100 food 0ccfp means you can't even eat to bring the bars up again, cause you are in fact at 100 food at can't eat.

And those bars are very useful and you'll want to have them up anytime.

It's barely unuseable except, as someone said, as an "emergency button". removing the ccfp bars reset won't make it more powerful than it was before

Edited by Davih
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2 hours ago, MetalDragon said:

It's not really useless as it does exactly the SAME THING as it did before the cooking update. It's just doesn't do anything beneficial for the new food attributes.

 

I think this explanation covers it. Now players have to make a choice, either use refresh (or eat old style meals) to raise their nutrition level for the % skill increase benefit, or choose to take the time to learn the new meals and what benefits they provide with their CCFP.

 

Myself I never used refresh but I still prepare the old simple meals that give me 80% nutrition at the skill level that I can cook them. This for the skill level % boost. Maybe in the future I will try to figure out some of these new cooking CCFP stats provided but until then I am satisfied with using the plain old meals and ignoring CCFP or temporary affinity benefits. So I don't see a problem with having to make a choice between the two and having either benefit but not both.

 

=Ayes=

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Maybe we could get an op out.  If SOG got one why not POL?  But Ostentatio has a worthwhile suggestion, it is dead now.

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I seem to be the odd one out here, as I am specifically using refresh to zero out my ccfp so I can regain the skillgains I was getting before stamina got screwed up. It's hard enough to get skill gain in the 80s and 90s already.

 

Honestly I think there should be some other way to zero it out, maybe some kind of purgative that also lowers hunger? Then refresh can be changed to ignore ccfp. If ccfp is a positive thing, then another positive skill shouldn't affect it, but as long as it is largely a negative as it is now, I'm fine with it.

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