Nahjo and Libila favour changes in 1.3

[Retrograde 12,013]

if the favour gain from chopping vegetables needs to be scaled up it will, but we would much rather start off lower and work up, than vice versa.

 

Crops have been known to be rather high, and we will continue to keep an eye on how chopping works and whether further changes can be made to lessen the impact and improve their benefits without making it as overpowered as before

[Ostentatio 1,970]

8 minutes ago, Dairuka said:

I'm going to do my best to remain patient to see the outcome of this proposed change, but I'm not going to lie when I say, this scares me deeply and might very well be a deal breaker for me. This potential overnerfing effects me so deeply, that for the first time ever, since I've started playing Wurm, I'm actually starting to question whether or not I want to continue these projects... or this game. These are not thoughts, or decisions I take lightly.

 

The one thing I don't understand about this is: If you played before Nahjo even existed, why would you quit playing because Nahjo is made slightly worse?

[Dairuka 888]

1 hour ago, Ostentatio said:

 

The one thing I don't understand about this is: If you played before Nahjo even existed, why would you quit playing because Nahjo is made slightly worse?

 

A change in focus and priorities. Adapting to a meta that has existed for years, that I enjoyed more than the game prior to it's existence.

 

My fear isn't that Nahjo is made slightly worse, but that the effective cost of my current casting capacity is doubled through the removal of crops (Without a viable alternative given in it's place) as the bonus for Nahjo. I already spend around 1g a month on crops. I'm not certain I can afford 2g a month based on the current pricing of my shop. I would either have to raise prices on my shop to offset the decrease in the favor:cost ratio, or I would have to find sellers willing to part with their crops at half the cost. Either don't seem feasible given the current market. This means my casting capacity is halved (Likely to be quartered, given that I now have to perform actions on top of the reduction), and my projects will have to take a major hit.

 

I'm adaptable, I could easily find other venues to correct the hit to capacity such as:

 

• Converting to Fo to cast Dirt with cloth squares, while premming up a Vynora battery to perform Mind Stealer casts. (20% increase in monthly premium costs, loss of Strongwall utility.)
• Converting to Fo, and removing Mind Stealer as an offered service. (An assumed 20% decrease in sales.)
• Creating a network of farming sellers who would give their 90ql+ crops to me at 50c per 1000. (Unlikely to happen.)
• Increasing the costs of my enchantments to offset the increased costs, while retaining client base. (Unlikely to happen.)
• Abandoning and/or slowing one or multiple projects that relied on my current dirt creation capacity. (Likely to make me very unhappy.)

 

However, a question now comes to mind... Do I want to adapt?

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by Dairuka

[GoldFever 299]

Opps

Edited November 20, 2016 by GoldFever
Error in posting

[Ohana 907]

What was wrong with Garys great suggestion. Leave  nahjo  and lib alone.  give all other priest half the favor that they get on the same crops.   Sounds good and might even be easy to implement. 

[RandomHero 53]

I seriously hope Libila is going to get the same Transfer that Nahjo is getting. 

 

Libila has been around forever with this ability and its not being removed, not only that but lib also not allowed on freedom. There are SOOO many restrictions to LIB that we Blacklighters have stuck with for so long for a few things but one major ability was the sac items and lib cannot gather its own. Hunting is not a very viable option either. 

 

I can somewhat understand the team thinking that some change was needed, im not going to really complain since many others are doing it for me and others. But I will kick and scream if Nahjo gets the transfer and Libila does not if this change goes through as planned.

 

With Grey light gods now its finally given BL kingdoms a choice outside of LIB and we have been screwed over many many times i would expect this change warrants a Transfer from lib to other gods just as Nahjo is said to be getting. 

[GoldFever 299]

7 hours ago, Retrograde said:

if the favour gain from chopping vegetables needs to be scaled up it will, but we would much rather start off lower and work up, than vice versa.

 

Crops have been known to be rather high, and we will continue to keep an eye on how chopping works and whether further changes can be made to lessen the impact and improve their benefits without making it as overpowered as before

 

I'm just speculating here, but I think you got it about right.  4,500 favor per thousand veggies is more favor than a high skilled ropemaker using very high ql ropetool can make right now with 1000 wemp.  Sounds to me like chopping veggies is something even non-premiums can do a decent job of as long as they have a high ql knife.  Gives them another excellent way to contribute to village life or earn a few coin to premium up without being OP.  Can even make favor deliveries in a rowboat.

 

Then if one wants to put in the time to skill up ropemaking, cordage appears that on a crop for crop basis, it will get significantly more favor than chopped veggies once cordage difficulty is taken into account.  Again, this is reasonable.  The key is the balance and since I don't know how to predict how much favor I'll get from 1000 wemp under the lower cordage difficulty, hard to say for sure till it is implemented and I test it, but I'm guessing it is in the ballpark.

 

Overall, universal favor will be much more readily available than it was before and that is a good thing I think.  The only real issues are how long it took to make this change (but not a reason to stop change just because it is slow), the lack of notice and design testing and the lack of a decent special favor item (but that balances out against the OP spell list in my view).  I feel sorry for those who were using plentiful favor to cast dirt to fill up the entire ocean--that project just got a bit harder.  But for those who were using it to spam cast enchantments to earn an income, well, don't worry, the spam casting was lowering prices and now they might recover a bit somewhat balancing out the income.

 

Finally, there seems to be some notion that every major crafter/enchanter switched to Nahjo, they didn't.  No Nahjo's here at Port Onody for example. We believe in the "Old" gods, none of this new religion stuff for Gumbo and I.

[Ostentatio 1,970]

1 hour ago, GoldFever said:

Sounds to me like chopping veggies is something even non-premiums can do a decent job of as long as they have a high ql knife.

 

Just chiming in to say that I'm pretty sure high-QL tools don't actually help much for non-premiums.

 

Tools basically give you a bonus to your skill during a skill check, and I'm pretty sure it's capped at 20 after the tool is considered, or something to that effect.

[Eobersig 1,004]

5 hours ago, Ohana said:

What was wrong with Garys great suggestion. Leave  nahjo  and lib alone.  give all other priest half the favor that they get on the same crops.   Sounds good and might even be easy to implement. 

 

Indeed. Instead we get priests acting as kitchen boys chopping veggies.

[Shmeric 581]

I don't really mind the changes, but a fair warning in advance should be given.

Along with many other Nahjo priests, I have quite a large stock of veggies and have made rather long term plans for using them. When I say long term, I mean a week or two in advance.

You guys (looks at dev team and other decision makers) should just stick to the originally announced cooking update for this week and do the saccing changes later.

As I read, there are still bugs and misunderstandings in test server (or were, a few hours ago) about the chopping and storing mechanics. Please don't just throw something that important into the 'cookbook' just because you want it done.

 

If it's broken (and I do agree, Nahjo is a bit broken), go ahead and fix it. Change it. Remove it. Whatever. But please, give us a fair warning

[RandomHero 53]

^ hopefully they can see to reason with the above comment.

 

Id still like to know about nahjo and libila transfers? 

[KillerSpike 295]

I am okay with the chopping veggies thing for Nahjo.  What I have a problem with is that the close to 30k Wemp I have is now "useless" for my Nahjo.

Yes I know I can make cordage ropes from it but making ropes is a PITA due to the RND factor. The amount of potential favor is so much less

than if I had 30k veggies. With my 30k 99.8QL Wemp I know/knew exactly how much favor I can get out of that. (That is one of the main reasons I made

a Nahjo. NO RND involved) Making Cordage Ropes nobody knows how much I will get. Include the cost of keeping my Rope Tools imped up to

try and get the most favor possible it is just a no win situation. At least the priests that is using veggies right now for their Nahjo's can go off

chopping and casting. I on the other hand will have to make another plan . My Nahjo have prem time till early January I guess I will have to

"wait and see" where this end up and if I am prepared do put more money into him after loosing out quite a few silvers with this change.

 

On a side note. : I always defended Retro by having the "don't kill the messenger" approach but that has come to an abrupt end

with the deleting of a thread because of the response it got was not to his liking. I am all for moderation when it gets to personal insults

etc but this was not an example of moderation. Not sure exactly what it was but it was a bad move imho.

[Retrograde 12,013]

Thread was removed due to it being about outdated information, people weren't reading about the changes after feedback (chopped vegetables and such) and instead were reacting to just the changes to nahjo, which is why it was hidden.

 

We added the thread about the changes based off feedback, and by then this thread had come up so we stuck with it and locked the wsa thread in order to keep it in the same thread, rather than half a dozen different threads.

[zigozag 918]

@Retrograde, official word about storing chopped vegetables, please? And if it's not what promised, then why?

[Mclovin 2,590]

the fix you came up with retro is fair, you said it may be scaled up if it needs to be; the out cry is from those who are greedy and want it super easy. it's OP. Devs should stick to their guns. AND AGAIN, I was in the middle of a 68 channel grind on nahjo with 15k corn in my fsb, I'm hit too, but I strongly agree with the change, which actually is cool for all priests later. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Mclovin

[Retrograde 12,013]

4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 

Was changed during testing but after the decision to enable them as favour for all priests they've been reworked. Will ask about the crafting window

From the other thread (the other other other thread)

[Mclovin 2,590]

do locks decay? if so why isn't there a bulk option to store those? If no option then why we serving the need for choppep veg to be stored, easier than locks, that decay


If they dont decay ill shutup 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Mclovin

[zigozag 918]

They don't.

[rixk 830]

Yoyo's decay tho.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Fully on topic:

Really CodeClub?  If you got Wurm 2 stashed away and are trying to clear the "classic" servers in preparation, may as well say so.  If not I don't see the logic behind this kind of change that is GUARANTEED to peeve people.

Slightly less on topic: (Edit: just saw the changes in full.. filets should at least count because dang, paw horn tooth gland?  Those are a proper pain to get in any real amounts without basically mass breeding your own aggro, to oversimplify).

 

Solution I can think of for butchered items (((if "butchered items" is expanded to cover meat))) without having to pay more for bigger deeds to stash creatures or moving from half of Xanadu... no idea if it'll work but may be worth a testing... 

 

Fish in shallow waters, from what I've seen, tiles behave a bit like rock tiles, meaning there are "sweet spots" (rare spots aside, those are generally in deeep water).

 

So anyhoo, "sweet" spots will generally yield heavy fish like catfish and.... carp was it? (been a while)  Difficulty's not too high on those, and butchering a 10kg+ fish tends to yield enough high ql filets.  Works great for taming otherwise.

 

If it DOES work, get not one but three fishing rods, highest ql you can get your hands on.  One in use, one being re-imped, one as back up in case your carpenter is delayed.  (2 if you're your own carpenter).

Edited November 21, 2016 by Mordraug
Dem changes... dang...

[RandomHero 53]

Although I fully see and understand the point to this change and in some way I'm for the change as long as the promise is kept to scale up the favor amount on saccables if they are not enough, but I would like to know what love will be given to Libila? 

 

Libila cannot farm so its only option now is to hunt? That is not at all a viable option for favor. There are sooo many restrictions for being libila its becoming extremely unfair and honestly a worthless priest at this point. 

 

Can chopped veggies give more favor for nahjo/libila not double but perhaps 1/3rd more then other priests since they all have more manageable double favor items?

 

Also can we please have a statement about transfers for both nahjo and libila? At this point sadly remaining lib or nahjo even with these changes if chopped veggies for example is not slightly more benefiting for them doesn't make sense, since other priests will benefit from not only their double favor items but now chopped veggies it makes those priests look pretty good.  

 

I know many people are pissed off but i do think if everyone including the wurm team takes a deep breath we can come out of this with everyone happy across the board including players with other priests. 

[Retrograde 12,013]

Right, few changes based on feedback and discussion with the dev team, let me type

 

Damn, lost it all..

 

Starting again:

 

As many have raised, the removal of potency 1 items and food items as well as the changes to scale with potency are probably a little too heavy.

The proposed system is essentially (quality / 33 * potency) (this means a 100ql potency 1 item will give 3 favour) So with this in mind, we'll be removing the block on potency 1 and food items being used.

 

Chopped alchemy items will also have a boost for Nahjo and Libila followers as well, (BAD MATH IS BAD, WILL CONFIRM)

 

This means your existing stocks are still useful, those with wemp or grains can still sacrifice them (albeit for reduced favour) and alchemy based crops will still be valuable. When chopped will give more favour for Libila and Nahjo priests than chopped non alchemy vegetables.

 

The chopped ql/20 favour for all priests will remain, and well be sitting down and addressing all priests across the board in the coming weeks and after Christmas, which will include greater discussion and balancing.

 

Priests with the food affinity (Tosiek, Paawheeler, Fo) will also get a bigger bonus with sacrificing finished meals (ql/13 * complexity (which is a range from 0.xx to 4)).

 

TL;DR

Chopped alchemy vegetables will now give more favour for Nahjo and Libila priests than other priests. However Fo, Paawheeler and Tosiek prefer their sacrifices cooked.

 

We do appreciate the feedback, and we know this change was bound to affect some more than others, but we hope this change means that Nahjo no longer becomes the must have priest, and that raising and skilling another priest is now a viable alternative and promotes more diversity within the priest group.

Hopefully this addresses some concerns with the upcoming change, and we will continue to monitor and tweak it if need be.

[zigozag 918]

What about storage?

[Retrograde 12,013]

They will go in food storage bins. (The chopped vegetables that is, not the priests!)

[RandomHero 53]

Thanks for listening! 

 

Any comments on transfers though? Many people did not go with other priests for favor reasons but now with the added flavor of new sacables for all it would be a nice option to see some Mag priests once again and FO .