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elroth

chopped veggies NOT BALANCED

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Wow, just wow.  Say goodbye to a lot more subs Retro, because you guys are tinkering with something you clearly don't understand.

 

Explain to me how this is fair to those of us that grinded ropemaking.

Explain to me how this is a benefit for Libila priests who are unable to farm.

 

 

 

 

 

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Just to clarify. 60ql knife, 30 cooking skill.

 

26b3da3c0f504c49945a9bb286a82dd6.png

 

as you can see, it is above the quality of the corn, and definitely above the set cooking skill.

 

After discussion with the dev team I'm pleased to say we will be enabling a one time faith transfer to another god, though again, this favour may be tweaked.

upwards.

 

Currently cordage is 60 difficulty, this will be tweaked down to 40, improving the average quality of cordage to make sure that those who grinded ropemaking don't lose out.

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Right at the start I thought lib should have just been given locks since she shares a lot in common with mag and she can't even farm, I still think this works.

 

let all priests have this fancy new chop stuff and give lib/nahjo locks so they can have a reliable source of favor

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I approve of the simple fact that the sacking product has to go through one more action as all the other priests saccable has to.

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47 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Just to clarify. 60ql knife, 30 cooking skill.

 

26b3da3c0f504c49945a9bb286a82dd6.png

 

as you can see, it is above the quality of the corn, and definitely above the set cooking skill.

 

After discussion with the dev team I'm pleased to say we will be enabling a one time faith transfer to another god, though again, this favour may be tweaked.

upwards.

 

Currently cordage is 60 difficulty, this will be tweaked down to 40, improving the average quality of cordage to make sure that those who grinded ropemaking don't lose out.

 

thank you.

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Please please please leave ropemaking alone.  Until someone can test something.  These knee jerk reactions has been nothing but crap for anyone that it touches

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this will hurt more in some area more then others

Pve nahjo i feel this will bring it more inline with other priest if**
**Rng code is done right.atm there are lest two rng code's.one that works pretty good off a good seed.
And another one that is 100% crap. gets a seed off a dead hamster wheel.(3 years of logs coming soon to meditation post)

Pvp Lib Priest this is going to crush already small group of people and Nerf Lib priest.
lets start with all the neg of being in black-light kingdom that is just priest only.
NO Mag/vyn/fo
    1 The Must bugged and longest to fix bugs that affect the smallest group of people so always put on back burners.(to this date i have never heard of a dev in any BL kingdom. so you are all shooting in the dark here)
    2 Mag not being able to use meditation ability that do work and help alot on choas
    3 Vyn No Nimble cast (this one was someone fixed when Paaweelr came out).
    4 Fo Gods of Healing.(with other player priest this has become better and with Nerf to some spell's they are just demi gods)
    5 Lib can not FARM at all!!!! all others priest can make there own favor items... with work..and if you say hunting rise your hand with a soap can in it over your head and let it go.. you are out of adjustment..
    6 Devs saying they will fix it after they brake it... ROFL REALLY!!! how that going so far???? Shield skill STILL BROKE!!!!   ,armor change's Still Broke  PLATE DRAKE SCALE still kings..(could name off 100dif things here)(yes its better but still not right)
    7 Lack of faith in devs to listen to the player when things are broke or even pointing out exploits and cheaters..(post it on the forums so everyone can do it.or put in a ticket so CM can tell there friends and use it) or get down right told there no way someone could do that...wurm is a very simple game vs like EQ/Wow/D3/D2 and they all have huge hacks they always gotta fight..

ill end this here for know... y'all eye prob hurt from my spellings

 

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no all that is left is to give lib and nahjo a feasible sac item for 2 time favor.. in case anyone want to remain nahjo, which i doubt still but will see.

 

my personal opinion is that its only merit was, whether you wanted strongwall or LT, that is had nice favor gains and easy to use channeling grind options

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

 

Currently cordage is 60 difficulty, this will be tweaked down to 40, improving the average quality of cordage to make sure that those who grinded ropemaking don't lose out

 

Have you ever made cordage rope Retro?  Start to finish?  Have you ever tried harvesting wemp?   NO ONE will be making cordage rope after this, even with the reduced difficulty for the following reasons:

 

1.  Farming garlic is significantly easier than wemp.  It weighs less than 10% as much, you can fit 100 to a satchel, and it does not involve dragging a small cart (thus using more stamina) to be able to "carry" more than a handful of wemp.

2.  Hauling favor-  the only viable storage method for cordage ropes is BSBs or crates.  Unlike garlic or other similar vegetables, cordage doesn't fit 100 to a satchel and 41 satchels to a raft.

3.  Crafting cordage rope-  How many people have 90 fine carpentry?  How many people have 90 blacksmithing?  Nuff said. 

4.  Material gained for material used-  Chopped veggies are 1:1.  Making one cordage rope uses .65 (about 1 and 1/3 wemp fibre/plants) to make one rope.

5.  A small note for QoL:  Wemp is hard to see when in piles on the ground, another reason people hate farming it.

 

So when I compare two items that Retro intends to make equally difficult (easy) to make... cordage rope vs chopped veggies.... I'm going to choose chopped veggies every single time, simply due to the lack of weight restriction, ease of transportation and ease of skill.  When you decide to compensate ropemakers for THAT, you let me know.

 

Just curious Retro... Budda, and anyone else that thought of this great change.  Did you even consider any ONE of the things above before you decided you were going to put your foot down?

Edited by Wargasm
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57 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Currently cordage is 60 difficulty, this will be tweaked down to 40, improving the average quality of cordage to make sure that those who grinded ropemaking don't lose out.

Cordage offers a step on the difficulty ladder if your training rope-making by creation. To put it another way, reducing the difficulty of cordage makes it harder to train that skill up via creation. So unless you guys are planning on letting priests improve a better idea would be to increase the get price of plain old rope and decrease its difficulty to 1 (if it isn't already that). Also, maybe increase the get price off all rope-making stuff.

 

What is the average favor from farm-havest + chop up

versus

What is the average favor from farm-havest + rope creation.

..all things being equal skills and tools.

Tweak get prices so rope-making is a little better (it is far more work) and it should be good. 

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Thank you for the faith transfer.

 

If you could toss on farming for Libila and digging for Paaweelr in the update that would be fabulous.

 

 

Edited by arakiel

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So all priests can gain favor from the same item.

 

besides the original 4 priests, spells are now a spin the wheel for any new priest?

 

What is the argument again for Lib not being allowed on Freedom?

 

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7 minutes ago, arakiel said:

Thank you for the faith transfer.

 

If you could toss on farming for Libila and digging for Paaweelr in the update that would be fabulous.

 

 

And maybe woodcutting for Smeagain since it has wood affinity (heard it can't cut wood, but can't verify)

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12 minutes ago, Kadore said:

So all priests can gain favor from the same item.

 

besides the original 4 priests, spells are now a spin the wheel for any new priest?

 

What is the argument again for Lib not being allowed on Freedom?

 

 

The reasoning before was regarding her PvP spells, which have been restricted. It's out of scope to discuss changes to Libila.

 

I've worked quite a bit on the faith issues between Chaos and the rest of Freedom. If any changes were to be made, they need to be done properly and with significant testing. To just open her up right now would likely cause people to either lose Libila faith on Chaos, or lose non-Lib faith on other servers.

 

My response isn't a yes or a no, btw. That's not a decision for me. I've just been close to this bit of the code lately, so I know the pitfalls.

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So to sum all things up:

 

The following audience is pissed off:

Nahjo priest owners

Libila priest owners

Cordage rope providers - even with the lower difficulty

Master farmers (you seemingly need no good ql crops to obtain high ql chopped stuff)

Lore wise Mag priests (what the heck would a Mag do in the kitchen) - but this is no game mechanics issue

 

Good work staff.

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I'm not going to lie. These changes don't seem very well thought out.

 

They add tedium; when they should've instead increased the casting capacity of other priests to bring them in line with Nahjo.

 

 
On 5/12/2016 at 7:58 PM, Dairuka said:

Hell, I use Toymaking religiously already, predominantly because I have access to multiple alts that can constantly create shafts and strings en masse. I still suggest people who have multiple alts to get into doing it, because of the relative cheapness of the materials required to create Yoyos in comparison to both Wemp and Iron costs for both Door Locks and Coordage Rope. Of course, this still isn't balanced considering the fact that it takes multiple alts to get any real value out of Toymaking.

You could always remove the RNG feature of Carving Shafts and Yoyo Making, and have it directly tied in to the QL of the logs/shafts while having the QL of each capped by the skill level of the Carpenter/Toymaker.

That alone would effectively double or triple the value of Toymaking in a single change.

A 90ql log with a 40 skill carpenter will result in a 40ql shaft every time. A 90ql log with a 90 skill carpenter results in a 90ql shaft every time. A 90ql shaft with a 40 skill Toymaker results in a 40ql Yoyo. A 90ql shaft with a 90 skill Toymaker results in a 90ql yoyo. Watch the flood of Toymakers pour in.

Another alternative is to admit how ridiculous the skill requirements for Toymakers is, and just give us more favor for Yoyos as a blanket buff.

As for Nahjo? Cropsac is OP. (But Libila knew that already.) His spell list walks a fine line: Nahjo is arguably the best PvE priest and the worst PvP priest. Developer oversight is a necessity, and I'm disappointed you guys let this go on for so long when we've raised red flags about this issue since day one of his spell list/saccable's discoveries.

Good luck balancing Nahjo without overnerfing him. Hes essentially Wurm Online's version of League of Legends' Udyr +  Innervating Locket. One wrong change and the account dropoff will be substantial.

 

Called it. It's just a shame you took what I said as a dare, instead of a warning.

Edited by Dairuka
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21 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

The reasoning before was regarding her PvP spells, which have been restricted. It's out of scope to discuss changes to Libila.

 

I've worked quite a bit on the faith issues between Chaos and the rest of Freedom. If any changes were to be made, they need to be done properly and with significant testing. To just open her up right now would likely cause people to either lose Libila faith on Chaos, or lose non-Lib faith on other servers.

 

My response isn't a yes or a no, btw. That's not a decision for me. I've just been close to this bit of the code lately, so I know the pitfalls.

At this point it time regarding priests it would be easier to just make a class called Priest.

 

When you make a priest you roll a dice to see what spells you get, now that everything is getting very generic.

 

The only other option would be to return all the Epic priests to Epic where they were made and belong, but that ship sailed long ago, 

 

For many years the 4 priests have worked well, Lib remained as a pvp only god and stayed on Chaos, reasoning seems to be getting thinner and thinner as lore is so far out thew window now where at anytime we could end up with a god named Mycousinvinny is a player named that were to accend.

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2 hours ago, icbash said:

 y'all eye prob hurt from my spellings

 

 

The spellings were mostly good, some switched words like brake > break, but the punctuation was missing things. You make good points, stick in those commas and caps and spaces to be shiny.  :D

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2 hours ago, Wargasm said:

 

Have you ever made cordage rope Retro?  Start to finish?  Have you ever tried harvesting wemp?   NO ONE will be making cordage rope after this, even with the reduced difficulty for the following reasons:

 

1.  Farming garlic is significantly easier than wemp.  It weighs less than 10% as much, you can fit 100 to a satchel, and it does not involve dragging a small cart (thus using more stamina) to be able to "carry" more than a handful of wemp.

2.  Hauling favor-  the only viable storage method for cordage ropes is BSBs or crates.  Unlike garlic or other similar vegetables, cordage doesn't fit 100 to a satchel and 41 satchels to a raft.

3.  Crafting cordage rope-  How many people have 90 fine carpentry?  How many people have 90 blacksmithing?  Nuff said. 

4.  Material gained for material used-  Chopped veggies are 1:1.  Making one cordage rope uses .65 (about 1 and 1/3 wemp fibre/plants) to make one rope.

5.  A small note for QoL:  Wemp is hard to see when in piles on the ground, another reason people hate farming it.

 

So when I compare two items that Retro intends to make equally difficult (easy) to make... cordage rope vs chopped veggies.... I'm going to choose chopped veggies every single time, simply due to the lack of weight restriction, ease of transportation and ease of skill.  When you decide to compensate ropemakers for THAT, you let me know.

 

Just curious Retro... Budda, and anyone else that thought of this great change.  Did you even consider any ONE of the things above before you decided you were going to put your foot down?

 

1.  No worse than cotton harvests

2.  You can fit more favor in cordage ropes in a crate

3.  About the same number of people who can run two toons I'd bet (you did say pet priests were working as intended)

4.  It's actually closer to 0.75 (1/1.33333 if your "one and a third" is correct)

 

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why not just use regular veggies for all priests. you're making more work than its worth in general. that is literally all you have to do.

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Was it broken? Yes! Cropsac was broken to the point, that no matter which priest you wanted, the fastest/easiest way was to go nahjo first, skill channeling up and then switch to the priest you wanted really to be. The thing is tho, as usual, it took years to fix the problem(IMO cropsac shouldn't have been existed in the first place).

 

Now about the "fix". Seems that devs didn't want to buff up other priests to where Nahjo was, so they were given a bit.. while Nahjos saccing was tuned down a bit. I don't know, but for me giving cropsac for everyone is not that good choice. Sounds like cropsac(even if you need to work on the items) now will eat out other favor saccing methods. Cordage difficulty was lowered, but besides difficulty there are many ways why crops are more superior(weight, tool req, etc). Let's not even go into old gods sac items(Cloth, yoyos, locks), which require several actions to create and/or several (high)skills.

 

New player gods have created a mess, and let's face it, this change doesn't make things any more clearer(if anything, it will be even messier).

 

 

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i only used cordage for my favor since the beginning, i am happy with the changes made to ropemaking, i'll never switch to veggie cutting, even if i'm just at 75 ropemaking.

Regarding the decreased difficulty, if you are worried about increased difficulty not allowing you to skillup further, just decrease the QL of your ropetool and you will get skill ticks as before.

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3 hours ago, Wargasm said:

Wow, just wow.  Say goodbye to a lot more subs.

Well maybe, but I'd be more likely to go make a few priests. What about the people who don't like farming or ropemaking? It's now like ropemaking a bit random, but can yield better results than the cap on wemp plants quality. If you consider the steps its not much different than the other methods of making double favor items. Now rope making might be used as intended.

Edited by Pride

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