Revert Shield Training nerf

[Cornchips 3,037]

It was changed to where you have to change animals every few minutes to continue gaining skill

 

All this does is add menial tasks to something people will do anyway, and disadvantages people that only have one horse in their possession

 

Kind of like all of the gimps or restrictions to f2p characters on pvp servers, I don't see why go halfway then just leave it as is;

 

either make shieldskill like weaponskill gains or revert it back to the old way, this inbetween area isn't really good for anyone 

 

 

Any kind of petty passive-agressive comment instead of discussing which way of shield skillgain is better will just prove you're an idiot and unable to fathom other ideas

Edited November 14, 2016 by Cornchips

[Retrograde 12,013]

Not sure if you missed it, but this was the topic of discussion a few weeks back.

 

1.3 will bring in a new and improved shield skill mechanic that will work closer to weapon skilling than it currently does

[Rathgar 959]

9 minutes ago, Cornchips said:

It was changed to where you have to change animals every few minutes to continue gaining skill

 

All this does is add menial tasks to something people will do anyway, and disadvantages people that only have one horse in their possession

 

Kind of like all of the gimps or restrictions to f2p characters on pvp servers, I don't see why go halfway then just leave it as is;

 

either make shieldskill like weaponskill gains or revert it back to the old way, this inbetween area isn't really good for anyone 

 

 

Any kind of petty passive-agressive comment instead of discussing which way of shield skillgain is better will just prove you're an idiot and unable to fathom other ideas

 

That bolded phrase pretty much makes you an idiot unable to fathom other ideas, just saying.

 

+1 to fixing the shiled skill gain as it was already promised.

 

In case you dont remember, when the nerf was done, we were told that a better way to gain skill was going to be put in place... but I havent heard of it being implemented yet.

 

PS: ghosted by retrograde.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Rathgar
I was late

[Pingpong 1,070]

I've always believed that shooting alts/mains with arrowshafts and such was the best shieldskill gains. Either bring onto freedom to level the playing field from prior WOO or wait until the new system is in place. -1

[Worksock 465]

32 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Not sure if you missed it, but this was the topic of discussion a few weeks back.

 

1.3 will bring in a new and improved shield skill mechanic that will work closer to weapon skilling than it currently does

Will it affect archery gains also?

The skill nerf on animals made it so archery is now basically the most painful grind (aside from meditation ofc) that is required for pvp

[Propheteer 7,139]

16 minutes ago, Worksock said:

Will it affect archery gains also?

The skill nerf on animals made it so archery is now basically the most painful grind (aside from meditation ofc) that is required for pvp

to be fair

 

the difference between 50 and 99 archery is negligible in wurm lol

 

 

but yes, they also nerfed archery pretty hard with the shield patch too.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Propheteer

[Klaa 4,872]

51 minutes ago, Pingpong said:

I've always believed that shooting alts/mains with arrowshafts and such was the best shieldskill gains. Either bring onto freedom to level the playing field from prior WOO or wait until the new system is in place. -1

 

Such is actually still decent even after skillgain was linked to potential damage and the cooldowns added.

 

Sadly both examples in shield and archery skillgain are what happens when idiots certain players abuse matters without reporting them: the hammer comes down and matters become more restrictive even for other players. Granted cheating players, almost by definition, tend to look at matters in the short-term instead of considering the long-term ramifications, so little to be surprised about.

[shankiest 1,238]

Has the new method been tested vs old? Or is it just assuming its going be better.

[Cornchips 3,037]

5 hours ago, Rathgar said:

 

That bolded phrase pretty much makes you an idiot unable to fathom other ideas, just saying.

 

 

I guess just because it's me you're going to say something cringy to begin with

I don't see any part of anything I said that wasn't open to anything other than what it is right now

literally read what I wrote

 

I remember the post about the new system coming in but until it's an actual thing pretty much no ones gained any shieldskill in any viable way

Edited November 14, 2016 by Cornchips

[Rhianna 892]

4 hours ago, Worksock said:

Will it affect archery gains also?

The skill nerf on animals made it so archery is now basically the most painful grind (aside from meditation ofc) that is required for pvp

 

And with these nerfs getting body control up to say 31 to ride a hellhorse is really painful - believe me I just did it , can we also get that looked at. It seems to be we are getting one nerf after the other that just makes playing this game horrible and the less fun people have the less they will stay around.....just saying

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

+1 for the shield revert and +1 for an archery one too, surely we want to be increasing the influx of new players, not punishing them.

[Retrograde 12,013]

3 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

+1 for the shield revert and +1 for an archery one too, surely we want to be increasing the influx of new players, not punishing them.

not sure "stand in a pen for 50 hours to gain enough shield skill to be effective in PvP" or "log in an alt on an enemy kingdom an shoot at them for hours" would be increasing new players, sounds more like punishing.

 

The old shield training method was not a good method, it was simply the best way to skill with a broken system. Instead of returning to that, our focus is on improving the underlying cause.

 

It should be on test this week, I'll speak with the devs

 

Edit - It's there! A quick (long drawn out) fight against a fog spider with 20 skills and a 95ql shield wound up with about .13 shield skill gain, feel free to jump on, spawn some gear and grab one of the horses

[Kadore 926]

Possibly the lack of training on deed could be the issue, training dummies and archery targets stop giving skill early and a way to get the first 20 in shield would be nice too.

 

The reason it was popular years ago when there was so little to kill on old Freedom, I think it's great you have a new way to raise it to hopefully equal the pen bashing method but it still takes time to find things to kill that dont die so fast.

 

It seems lately the direction is to spend more time to do what we used to do, I get changes are needed but a portion of your player base doesn't have the disposable time to spend to make every skill be so slow, I may be wrong but it seems a lot of older players are moving on lately, possibly not related to the new direction the game is taking.

[Makarus 458]

Possibly, possibly not. They will return... I know this from experience.

 

I really dislike pen bashing and threw a lil fit when I found out that was 'the' way to train it.

Pen training anything. ###### asanine.

 

Any change that pushes players in to the world to actually play and train for combat is something I am in support of.

Being said, go watch Dune. Paul trains with a pretty cool attack dummy which would be easily adapted to use in Wurm to reach 20 shield/bashing. Ofc, creative input usage, not plagiarism, but the concept is there for the devs to watch, make them watch @Retrograde

Edited November 15, 2016 by Makarus
Increase spawns on Freedom, make Chaos hardmode pve, new pvp minicluster west of Chaos do it do it do it do it!

[Talor 175]

Decided to try hunting on the test server with the new system.

 

After 40 minutes hunting in normal stance:

[15:23:31] Medium maul increased by 0.4587 to 66.5602

[15:23:31] Large metal shield increased by 1.0000 to 8.0000

 

Then another 40 minutes in defensive stance:

[16:09:58] Medium maul increased by 0.1163 to 85.0631

[16:09:42] Large metal shield increased by 0.4425 to 32.6043

 

I think the ideal would be if you hunt enough to get 70 in a weapon, you'd have around 70 in a shield. Judging from this test, shield gain is still a lot slower.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Talor

[Rasu 561]

15 hours ago, Talor said:

Decided to try hunting on the test server with the new system.

 

After 40 minutes hunting in normal stance:

[15:23:31] Medium maul increased by 0.4587 to 66.5602

[15:23:31] Large metal shield increased by 1.0000 to 8.0000

 

Then another 40 minutes in defensive stance:

[16:09:58] Medium maul increased by 0.1163 to 85.0631

[16:09:42] Large metal shield increased by 0.4425 to 32.6043

 

I think the ideal would be if you hunt enough to get 70 in a weapon, you'd have around 70 in a shield. Judging from this test, shield gain is still a lot slower.

 

If you trained both from 1 that makes it worse than the current system...

[Retrograde 12,013]

I highly doubt they were trained from 1, as my skills at 20 had larger boosts in a shorter timeframe.

 

don't forget you hit more often than you block, and damage dealt to you is less than damage you do, which will affect shield skill tick size.

[Budda 2,675]

18 hours ago, Talor said:

Decided to try hunting on the test server with the new system.

 

After 40 minutes hunting in normal stance:

[15:23:31] Medium maul increased by 0.4587 to 66.5602

[15:23:31] Large metal shield increased by 1.0000 to 8.0000

 

Then another 40 minutes in defensive stance:

[16:09:58] Medium maul increased by 0.1163 to 85.0631

[16:09:42] Large metal shield increased by 0.4425 to 32.6043

 

I think the ideal would be if you hunt enough to get 70 in a weapon, you'd have around 70 in a shield. Judging from this test, shield gain is still a lot slower.

 

Starting both at the same level to test would give me better results to go off whether i need to tweak it more or not.

 

Also as Retrograde said, you only gain shield skill when you're blocking - so defensive stance will give more chances at getting hit and blocking which should give you more gain for the same creature.

 

If someone wants to actually test it, i suggest setting skills to 20 via the right click test option, then doing a bit of hunting in normal stance. After you've got some stats for the skill gain of both weapon and shield, reset to 20 again and test again in defensive stance.

[Talor 175]

3 hours ago, Budda said:

 

Starting both at the same level to test would give me better results to go off whether i need to tweak it more or not.

 

I started with both skills at 1, as I felt these changes are going to most affect new players.

 

Here's the full skill log: http://pastebin.com/EdDeikwt

[Retrograde 12,013]

Given within an hour and twenty minutes of fighting you went from 1 medium maul to 84, and from 1 fighting to 14, it's pretty clear that skillgain won't really match how it will ingame.

 

Look at blocking difficulty, look how often you'll get a tick, and look at how often you parry with the shield.

 

Difficulty in parrying will be lower, which will mean more ticks.

[RandomHero 53]

84 med maul skill in 1h 20 mins? Is that a bit to fast?

[Retrograde 12,013]

Just now, RandomHero said:

84 med maul skill in 1h 20 mins? Is that a bit to fast?

Some skills are boosted on the test server, it would seem that this is one of them.

[Talor 175]

13 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Some skills are boosted on the test server, it would seem that this is one of them.

 

Is Large Metal Shield boosted also?

 

Would it be possible to set both the weapon and shield skills to normal gains so that we can test more accurately?

[Retrograde 12,013]

no it isnt

 

and unlikely

 

it's more about tick rate and parry rate that is the indicator, tick size will always be different due to enchantments and other bonuses.

[RandomHero 53]

Ok. 

 

If the large metal shield gains are accurate speed wise 32 skill in that amount of time seems to be on a positive side. That's more or less what you would have been pen training the correct way with high enchants and nutrition .