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Soil

Mine doors

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MINE DOORS. I think that we can do better. Currently with skills as high as they are, someone can throw together a high quality door in less time than it takes to order a pizza that would take a single person with a high quality large maul more than an entire day to bash. Team game? Of course. But when it would take a small group more time than it would take to drain a poorly positioned deed than it takes to bash an offdeed minedoor that was imped in 30 minutes, maybe there's some changes that could be done to improve gameplay.

For one, I think that we should revert to the old system where minedoors previously closed behind people. Why? Because it encourages smaller groups to go out and do things without the need for a hop. General gameplay wouldn't see much of a change, I haven't in the past year seen probably even 5 rushes into offdeed enemy minedoors for kills with the current unlocking system. 
Even with the old system, if you were caught out of position, you were still going to be out of luck. I think in one of Mclovin's videos where we chase 6? MR into an ONDEED minedoor on a deed that's more or less a token in the middle of a desert, it shows the sort of thing that bringing back the old system would encourage. They could have very well mounted a counterattack to get their people out of there. There should have been tabs one way or another, and they assumingly attempted to cap that tower knowing that they had a relatively safe fallback to escape to. 
This is the sort of thing I would like to see more of with the return of the old minedoor system. I know personally I would be more inclined to do things off deed if I knew that I could strategically place a fallback, or offdeed infrastructure, and it be somewhat secure.

With this change I would like to go back to my first point about minedoors taking too long to bash off deed. I believe that damage should be increased on offdeed minedoors by probably even 2x the current amount. It takes an absolutely absurd amount of time to bash them if you don't have an overwhelming force. Maybe cap the damage per minute or whatever if groups of 15/20 are an issue sort of like what is currently done with shield training, where it falls off at a certain point or something.

Just my thoughts. With proper planning it could both promote offdeed work, promote pvp, encourage roaming, hunting on the actual PvP server instead of sailing to Freedom, among other things. I am having a hard time seeing the negatives because of things like doors being unlocked not really factoring in currently because everyone just knows not to bother a whole lot with offdeed doors currently because they provide minimal advantage.

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I liked the old system where minedoors would close off deed but I honestly don't like or dislike either one, current or old

 

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having been on both sides of the old mine door off deed hops it's horrible

 

there was just this awful meta at one point of a 1 tile mine with back wall reinforced and a near indestructible curb, yeah some of it's changed, but it was just feeding off people that don't know better and then clicking the x in top right corner when it gets a little too toughie because there's no way to get in within 5 minutes, and if you could break a door in 5 minutes that would be horribly imbalanced

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2 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

having been on both sides of the old mine door off deed hops it's horrible

 

there was just this awful meta at one point of a 1 tile mine with back wall reinforced and a near indestructible curb, yeah some of it's changed, but it was just feeding off people that don't know better and then clicking the x in top right corner when it gets a little too toughie because there's no way to get in within 5 minutes, and if you could break a door in 5 minutes that would be horribly imbalanced

I do believe there was also talk of increasing the logoff time.

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4 minutes ago, Soil said:

I do believe there was also talk of increasing the logoff time.

 

One of epics mechanics, I believe it was suggested to be used for chaos and there was the classic " don't bring that epic garbage over here" talk.

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i like doors

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I +1 this so much, gives people a hope when roaming and run into a big group, tho any kingdom could benefit from this. @ Gary I'd be cool with mine door damage off deed or mine doors placed by enemy kingdom having a bash bonus to some degree alongside extended LO timers. 

I still remember being stuck in a mine and waiting for backup to come on affliction, we ended up having a 3 vs 5 or something, was pretty fun and we had a Chance. 

on elevation the map so big, you run into 3-9 people by yourself, and they got faster gear, you wont make it back, but if you could get to a nearby cave and try to hold them off until backup came, like before, you'll probs see a rise in fights and a rise in rouge caves on home servers cause you'll be able to hold out. 

I think the good sides outweigh the downsides, I rather have enemy run to a off deed mine than a war deed. The downsides atm seem to be easy to address and can open up some classic wurm gameplay, with a bit of a fix. Hope this can be worked out.

old doors with a few modern fixes


 

Edited by Mclovin
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+1

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For lockable offdeed minedoors to "work" epics logout timers would be needed aswell as a bonus to bashing and/or a big bonus to offdeed disintegrate... but even then im not really sure if I would support the change.

I think people would just end up making minor tunnels and safety mines all over the place.

I remember using the old lockable minedoors on epic and we were camping outside enemy capitals and heavily used paths with like 2-5 people... If they breached one entrance we would just run out from one of the 2 other exits which instantly connected to a new minesystem.

It's kinda like reinforced ondeed mines, they work fine when there is one or maybe two, but when there is like 12+ of them then its just stupid.

Edited by Zekezor

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I honestly don't get why they did that change in the first place, it really killed pvp at the time in chaos.

 

It was good because as you said, it encouraged people to go off deed and take more risks.

 

edit:

 

maybe make mine doors lock pickable?

Edited by Mattown
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Make mine doors have a good ql lock, or lower, so they can be picked too.

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14 minutes ago, Mclovin said:

Make mine doors have a good ql lock, or lower, so they can be picked too.

 

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+1 to bringing back off deedmine doors closeing with enemy in local if thay increase bash timers and make off deed ones easyer to bash

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One of the few updates that will set pvp back on course imo, especially for smaller kingdoms/groups/bands of friends

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I would support offdeed mine doors locking again like the old way, with 1 extra detail added to it. That detail would be these mine doors would only lock (x) amount of tiles away from a deed. Reason why I list it as X is to determine what would be reasonable, because truth be told a stronger group/kingdom could easily make a safe hop directly outside an enemy deed and literally camp it with a safe backup point. The X amount of distance needed from an enemy kingdom could help solve that so the idea remains to be targeted to more wilderness travels and possible skirmishes and not a safe hop outside of an enemies deed.

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i think perimter can solve some of that, tho idk the price for doing it. 

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17 hours ago, Mclovin said:

i think perimter can solve some of that, tho idk the price for doing it. 

If the point of bringing back lockable mine doors is to promote more wilderness skirmishes then it should be kept for that. Everyone knows a dominant kingdom will only take advantage of them if they were allowed to be placed at the border of an enemy deed. 

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So mine doors should open [as they currently do] if they are near a enemy deed? I can compromise with that, but they should still lock after 5 minutes and still be able to pick into them as suggested. I was thinking for the perim you have it +20 the tile you can do it, that way if a deed wants to it can spend to stop that action. 

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6 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

-1

 

Too much deed it or lose it on PvE as it is

Wat

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So essentially, allow minehops to occur again, but make it easier to break into, so they don't become "fort knox" but also allow some defence or holding off until others arrive?

 

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What happened with team play and friends knocking on the door with you.. does that count for breaking-in faster/easier?:rolleyes::huh:

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