Posted May 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Hailene said: I'm all for fatigue powders. 3 hours of fatigue for 1s. Plenty of wiggle room for people to play, but economically unviable for botters or macroers. How about no? I already pay for prem, I shouldn't have to pay for fatigue aswell. The solution is simple, disable fatigue, it's not working. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Greyfox said: The solution is simple, disable fatigue, it's not working. And open the doors for gold farmer? Top plan I can see why your are a successful game developer...oh wait. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words. I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say. Spoiler If we are going to go offtopic having no arguments at all.. at least somebody paste a good joke to read.. Edited June 3, 2017 by Finnn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 9 hours ago, lolmaster said: And open the doors for gold farmer? Top plan I can see why your are a successful game developer...oh wait. If you think the fatigue system would stop a gold farmer running 20+ macro alts, you would be sadly mistaken. If someone wanted to macro gold farm, they could, fatigue system isn't going to stop them. Also, if you haven't noticed, we already have gold farmers, they just do it without macros(Or if they do macro they're getting away with it and proving the fatigue system useless). 8 hours ago, Finnn said: If we are going to go offtopic having no arguments at all.. at least somebody paste a good joke to read.. I could quote all your posts, those are so funny they are sort of like a joke 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 Stop posting on a forum thread where all people can do is post. Its irritating my eyes. *Insert sarcasm* 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 18 hours ago, Nadroj said: Hey players, pay for the right to continue playing our game that you already pay us for So you want to remove sleep powders, too? It's pay to progress faster. If you don't want to progress faster then don't pay extra. If you do, then pony up. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 Just now, Hailene said: So you want to remove sleep powders, too? It's pay to progress faster. If you don't want to progress faster then don't pay extra. If you do, then pony up. Paying for a bonus to your progress is not the same as having your game play walled off until you pay more. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 Just now, Nadroj said: Paying for a bonus to your progress is not the same as having your game play walled off until you pay more. It's effectively the same. It's just the difference of perception (at least for skilling purposes). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) The easiest fix is to make a popup system that has 6 random questions and you have to answer one correct to continue. These can be 6 security questions added to an account that helps secure your account to prevent someone just stealing your account. Then you wouldn't need this cool down. If you answer the question wrong you have to wait a hour before next popup. this way you couldn't macro selecting the right answer and bypass the check. something of this nature would be better to stop macroing rather than punishing people who actually have the time to grind like that. Edit I don't play wurm like that but in 1999 there where days i'd play ever quest 24 hrs straight and alot of times for first 2 years i played it 16 to 20 hrs a day between a 12 hr shift job. I think I would have stomped up a storm at soe if they had a system like this back then. Edited May 21, 2017 by Arkonick 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 32 minutes ago, Hailene said: It's effectively the same. It's just the difference of perception (at least for skilling purposes). No is not. You pay a subscription to play the game. The fatigue system prevents you from playing the game you already pay for. Adding an in game item that costs silver so you can play the game you already paid to play for is a pretty greasy mechanic. I dont think there is a single mmo in existence that does this already. If it was a good business practice you would see gametime hours tokens all over the internet. Thankfully this is not a thing. Just imagine... "14.95 a month grants you 100 cash shop tokens and 300 hours of playtime a month!" What a deal! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 No idea how this may be received but just a thought... What about increasing fatigue as a function of # of months premium consecutively? For example, and the numbers are just examples, (again, numbers are only examples), The first three months consecutive are as they are now -- 12 hours. After that, every added month of consecutive premium membership adds an hour. So say you are premiumed for 9 months straight, you'd have 18 hours fatigue. If you break the streak though, you lose 2 hours for every month not premiumed until you're either back to 12 hours, of you've re-premiumed. So say you miss a month, you re-premium, you now have 16 hours. Next consecutive month, 17 hours. Etc. Fatigue is increased 1 month at a time, so buying 6 months premium will eventually earn you the whole bonus, but still 1 hour per month. Might avoid the pay-to-ween chorus. The time dedicated is as important to this working as the financial part. Part of the idea is making it a time and financial investment so the peons macroing wouldn't think it negligible. Players who stay with Wurm for a long time are rewarded for doing so. The people putting enough concerted, neurotically focused, effort into hitting the fatigue wall are probably staying premiumed for very long stretches at a time anyway. Somehow adding 1 hour a month doesn't necessarily look like it would be enough to help out the folks here having issues, but as I said, it's just a thought. Could also maybe look at making it retro-graded- -active and giving the immediate benefit to those who qualify. Surely there is a record of who has been premiumed consecutively that devs could use to calculate that. That would mean immediate relief for those insane enough dedicated enough to be hitting the fatigue wall now, while requiring adherence to the system going forward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words. I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say. Spoiler I like the idea only because of the benefits for the game.. But this solves nothing, it only adds 6hours.. if somebody is at 0 fatigue now.. s/he's going to hit the same wall in 1-2 days. Idea changes nothing about the playstyle leading to the problem, it only expands the pool. On 5/21/2017 at 11:40 PM, Reylaark said: No idea how this may be received but just a thought... What about increasing fatigue as a function of # of months premium consecutively? For example, and the numbers are just examples, (again, numbers are only examples), The first three months consecutive are as they are now -- 12 hours. After that, every added month of consecutive premium membership adds an hour. So say you are premiumed for 9 months straight, you'd have 18 hours fatigue. If you break the streak though, you lose 2 hours for every month not premiumed until you're either back to 12 hours, of you've re-premiumed. So say you miss a month, you re-premium, you now have 16 hours. Next consecutive month, 17 hours. Etc. Fatigue is increased 1 month at a time, so buying 6 months premium will eventually earn you the whole bonus, but still 1 hour per month. Might avoid the pay-to-ween chorus. The time dedicated is as important to this working as the financial part. Part of the idea is making it a time and financial investment so the peons macroing wouldn't think it negligible. Players who stay with Wurm for a long time are rewarded for doing so. The people putting enough concerted, neurotically focused, effort into hitting the fatigue wall are probably staying premiumed for very long stretches at a time anyway. Somehow adding 1 hour a month doesn't necessarily look like it would be enough to help out the folks here having issues, but as I said, it's just a thought. Could also maybe look at making it retro-graded- -active and giving the immediate benefit to those who qualify. Surely there is a record of who has been premiumed consecutively that devs could use to calculate that. That would mean immediate relief for those insane enough dedicated enough to be hitting the fatigue wall now, while requiring adherence to the system going forward. Edited June 3, 2017 by Finnn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 I am against any carrot that the developers may use to get more out of you for your premium subscription. Giving someome more playtime for "staying loyal" is an admission that you are not getting the time you already paid for. Plus, it doesnt make a difference wether you are a bot/macroer or not. In fact, it is more likely to hurt regular players. 6 hours more of fatigue is not going to sway the decision to extend prem for a macroer. Only a player gets incentivized by it. So its a mechanic geared to allow the Devs to get more out of players without giving anything in return: Your reward? The ability to play the game you already pay to play for longer. ??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Reylaark said: No idea how this may be received but just a thought... What about increasing fatigue as a function of # of months premium consecutively? For example, and the numbers are just examples, (again, numbers are only examples), The first three months consecutive are as they are now -- 12 hours. After that, every added month of consecutive premium membership adds an hour. So say you are premiumed for 9 months straight, you'd have 18 hours fatigue. If you break the streak though, you lose 2 hours for every month not premiumed until you're either back to 12 hours, of you've re-premiumed. So say you miss a month, you re-premium, you now have 16 hours. Next consecutive month, 17 hours. Etc. Fatigue is increased 1 month at a time, so buying 6 months premium will eventually earn you the whole bonus, but still 1 hour per month. Might avoid the pay-to-ween chorus. The time dedicated is as important to this working as the financial part. Part of the idea is making it a time and financial investment so the peons macroing wouldn't think it negligible. Players who stay with Wurm for a long time are rewarded for doing so. The people putting enough concerted, neurotically focused, effort into hitting the fatigue wall are probably staying premiumed for very long stretches at a time anyway. Somehow adding 1 hour a month doesn't necessarily look like it would be enough to help out the folks here having issues, but as I said, it's just a thought. Could also maybe look at making it retro-graded- -active and giving the immediate benefit to those who qualify. Surely there is a record of who has been premiumed consecutively that devs could use to calculate that. That would mean immediate relief for those insane enough dedicated enough to be hitting the fatigue wall now, while requiring adherence to the system going forward. this seems like it would at least allow people with fatigue issues a bit more freedom in how to schedule their hunting trips. first things first tho. id like to hear something about the bug i mentioned about the fatigue timer being reset a little while back. @Retrograde? or do i need to post it in the server bugs section for an "official report"? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words. I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say. Spoiler turn the extra hours into recovery per day... and you have creepy smiles everywhere.. at which point... some loyals could try 24/7 with normal 6-8h recovery and extra 6h + time regenerated while playing.. (play)eat, sleep, play, repeat; 100% viable for 24/7 @Angelklaineexample from rey doesnt do much.. only adds 6hours to your time.. but if you are your own problem and burn more than than you let to regenerate.. that extra time wont help you at all. Edited June 3, 2017 by Finnn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Angelklaine said: No is not. You pay a subscription to play the game. The fatigue system prevents you from playing the game you already pay for. Adding an in game item that costs silver so you can play the game you already paid to play for is a pretty greasy mechanic. I dont think there is a single mmo in existence that does this already. If it was a good business practice you would see gametime hours tokens all over the internet. Thankfully this is not a thing. Just imagine... "14.95 a month grants you 100 cash shop tokens and 300 hours of playtime a month!" What a deal! What year is this? 2007? Have you not heard of microtransactions? Energy, stamina, coins, maybe fatigue? Other games have different mechanics to slow down progression (daily quest limits, weekly dungeons, etc.) It's a way for developers to keep players interested long enough to roll out new content for them to devour. We've been paying for 8 hours worth of actions every day. That's the reality of our premium. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Saying why you want fatigue removed is fine and all. It's not going to do anything because fatigue exists for a purpose (flawed that it may be). Toss up a solution that's workable and still addresses the issue. We need a better way to detect macroers and bots. Until then, we just have the sledge hammer of fatigue in our toolbox. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Hailene said: What year is this? 2007? Have you not heard of microtransactions? Energy, stamina, coins, maybe fatigue? Other games have different mechanics to slow down progression (daily quest limits, weekly dungeons, etc.) It's a way for developers to keep players interested long enough to roll out new content for them to devour. We've been paying for 8 hours worth of actions every day. That's the reality of our premium. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Saying why you want fatigue removed is fine and all. It's not going to do anything because fatigue exists for a purpose (flawed that it may be). Toss up a solution that's workable and still addresses the issue. We need a better way to detect macroers and bots. Until then, we just have the sledge hammer of fatigue in our toolbox. There are many microtransaction stores that sell boosts and the like, yes. But I have yet to see one that sells premium players (those with subscriptions) items that allow them to play the game. In fact, I cant think of a game out there that limits your playtime like Wurm does. Stamina, xp boosts, skilling bonuses, etc are not the same as limiting playtime, then selling you in game items that will extend it for you when you already pay for that. Its like selling you a burger with only one slice of bread then charging you extra for the second slice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 I'm just trying to get over reading a post that seems to be trying to justify microtransactions. I was kinda hoping as gamers we could all agree together that those are horrible o.o 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, Angelklaine said: There are many microtransaction stores that sell boosts and the like, yes. But I have yet to see one that sells premium players (those with subscriptions) items that allow them to play the game. In fact, I cant think of a game out there that limits your playtime like Wurm does. You are telling me you've never heard of any games that restrict you to a certain number of actions a day? I'll toss one out and say farmville. 2 minutes ago, Nadroj said: I'm just trying to get over reading a post that seems to be trying to justify microtransactions. I was kinda hoping as gamers we could all agree together that those are horrible o.o Merchants, settlement form, magical chests, shaker orbs, sleep powders... This game is riddled with microtransactions. These hostile responses (on top of being unable to see any validity in the fatigue system, despite mentioning it yourselves) is probably one of the top reasons why fatigue won't be removed. There's no sane way to have a reasonable conversation. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Hailene said: You are telling me you've never heard of any games that restrict you to a certain number of actions a day? I'll toss one out and say farmville. Merchants, settlement form, magical chests, shaker orbs, sleep powders... This game is riddled with microtransactions. These hostile responses (on top of being unable to see any validity in the fatigue system, despite mentioning it yourselves) is probably one of the top reasons why fatigue won't be removed. There's no sane way to have a reasonable conversation. Free to play games are not pay to play games. Farmville does not charge you a fee to play the game. If you read what I typed, you will notice that I said it limits premium players. Android games are well known cash grabbers. Thats why stuff like farmville and Dominations and Age of Empires are such top -grossing- games. They are there to milk as much as they can as fast as they can from so called -whales-. I don't think any of us wants to see Wurm become something like that, and neither does the staff: Thats why you will never see something like Fatigue powders in game. I am not against anti macro measures. I am all for them. My issue is against any measure that penalizes or in any way interferes with avid players. Although I myself dont hit the fatigue cap, I have friends that do. There is nothing more frustrating than seeing Arium having to log off because he hit his cap for the day. I rather he stayed and played a bit longer so I had someone to talk to. He's not macroing... why cant he be on playing with me? That is my gripe with this system. I differ on the opinion that we should pay more to play the game. It has nothing to do with conversations or anything. It has to do with the fact that I should be able to play the game I pay for, for as long as I want. After all, I am paying for a dream, the right to be in a virtual world. In the end, I am paying for snake oil. Dont take that away from me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 22, 2017 52 minutes ago, Angelklaine said: I am against any carrot that the developers may use to get more out of you for your premium subscription. Giving someome more playtime for "staying loyal" is an admission that you are not getting the time you already paid for. Plus, it doesnt make a difference wether you are a bot/macroer or not. In fact, it is more likely to hurt regular players. 6 hours more of fatigue is not going to sway the decision to extend prem for a macroer. Only a player gets incentivized by it. So its a mechanic geared to allow the Devs to get more out of players without giving anything in return: Your reward? The ability to play the game you already pay to play for longer. ??? Keep in mind, I am not a dev. I don't know any devs, in or out of game. The idea I put forth isn't really meant to "keep people loyal." I have nothing to gain in promoting anyone's loyalty. There is no admission of anyone not getting the time they pay for, as everyone is very much getting the time they pay for. All of us get the same amount of time. How we use it is ultimately the question. However, since folks want to focus on time, I thought about adding fatigue time then. The extra hour added each month in what I was describing would be per day. Color added for emphasis. So we'd get 1 extra hour every month we're consecutively premiumed added to our existing fatigue time. So when I say at 9 months consecutive premium it's 18 hours, I mean it's 18 hours per day. (the original 12, +6hoursDaily@9monthsConsecutivePremium) Another month consecutive? 19 hours per day. Another month consecutive? 20 hours. etc. --> ∞. Not sure we should go above 24hours/day though as I don't know what that would do to the universe. People who grind that hard are already premiumed, are they not? Getting rewards for going premium, and staying premium, is the whole point of premium, isn't it? So, what I'm suggesting would pretty much give people having a problem the solution they're asking for, as a reward for something they're already doing. How in the world can that possibly be a bad thing? There are benefits to growing the fatigue cap over time. I wasn't so much thinking carrot, I really do think fatigue-ridden players are already loyal. They don't need a carrot. If the fatigue cap does serve as a deterrent to macroers, not saying it does, but IF it does... they wouldn't have the longevity to grow fatigue tolerance over time the same way speed-skillers inherently do. My thinking is if they can't get the immediate gratification of using macros in the first three months, they won't bother sticking around. Could be wrong. Not a macroer so can only imagine how they think... if they think. @AriumYup, good bit of investigative work. I think that it wouldn't be the first time we realize something didn't work the way we thought it did, so I'm not sure I'd want to claim it is broken right off the bat. If nothing else it doesn't seem very polite I do think that when the devs get a chance to look at it more closely, if they consider that broken, they'll let us know and fix it. It's not a personal crusade for them, it's just code. They'll get there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, Angelklaine said: I am not against anti macro measures. I am all for them. My issue is against any measure that penalizes or in any way interferes with avid players. Great. Wonderful. Common ground. So what do you suggest we to do change it without losing the benefits of the fatigue system? That's ultimately what this all boils down to. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 22, 2017 Some of the stories I've been told by well connected people have me doubting if the /fatigue system does more then catch the stupid macroers. You used to be able to answer a question if a gm thought you were botting, that you can't do something like that when you run out of /fatigue from a week of power imping is boggling to me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 22, 2017 32 minutes ago, Hailene said: Great. Wonderful. Common ground. So what do you suggest we to do change it without losing the benefits of the fatigue system? That's ultimately what this all boils down to. Benefits? How does anyone in 11 pages of this thread still think there are benefits to fatigue. It doesn't stop macroers and it does screw with legit players. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 22, 2017 28 minutes ago, Nadroj said: Benefits? How does anyone in 11 pages of this thread still think there are benefits to fatigue. It doesn't stop macroers and it does screw with legit players. ^This times 1000. There is no reason for this system. It makes the game unplayable for legit players. It's the entire reason I didn't bother to renew my prem. I'm not rage quitting, but no point in paying for a game that punishes me for playing the way I want to play. Heck, if I didn't like Wurm so much, I might have quit over the fatigue system. I'm sure people have. As it is, I'm on a break, until the Wurm itch(Addiction?) drags me back But really, I'm not a hard person to please, I have exactly 3 complaints with Wurm right now; 1) Fatigue, by far the biggest complaint, I can accept the next 2. 2) New cooking system. I'd like it improved with better storage options and a cooking interface similar to crafting window. Can live with it as is though. It's annoying but doesn't break gameplay. 3) I can't actually put anything here or my post will disappear because criticism gets mistaken for bashing sometimes. Anyway, kinda went on a bit of a rant there..... Fix Fatigue. There is no reason for this system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
