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Pardigan

Fatigue system needs to be looked at

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Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

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On 5/17/2017 at 5:33 PM, JakeRivers said:

Finn is one of those people who insist the sky is red and no matter how many shades of blue it really is, it is still red and you are wrong.

You're famous for putting words in people's mouths.. or at least claiming things about others, your best contribution to the community is pointing fingers and calling people names.. well everybody has a talent..

 

@Reylaarkyou're explaining poor coding.. wouldn't be surprised if somebody slacked on the job.. a bit.., I still had more confidence in the code:unsure:

 

Edited by Finnn
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1 minute ago, Finnn said:

 

@Reylaarkyou're explaining poor coding.. wouldn't be surprised if somebody slacked on the job.. a bit.., I still had more confidence in the code:unsure:

 

Yeah... but I really didn't want to put it that way :lol::lol: 

I mean, I could probably spin this as something done on purpose but that just has misunderstood intentions... that seems to be my talent:ph34r:... I should work at the White House. :P

 

"it's not poor coding, it's 'alternative' coding."

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Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

Spoiler

'alternative' when math forces remaining change go to places where they aren't supposed to... :ph34r:

 

Edited by Finnn

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2 hours ago, Finnn said:

You're famous for putting words in people's mouths.. or at least claiming things about others, your best contribution to the community is pointing fingers and calling people names.. well everybody has a talent..

 

@Reylaarkyou're explaining poor coding.. wouldn't be surprised if somebody slacked on the job.. a bit.., I still had more confidence in the code:unsure:

 

says the guy who claims anyone who hits fatigue must be a macro cheater

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hey guys you have a lot of time, dont spend it grinding in the game, spend it doing other things in the game because its not healthy to grind for hours on end.

 

 

ok mom gosh

Edited by Propheteer
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Why anyone would play the game they pay for is beyond me. I say we have developer limit client game sessions to one hour sessions with half hour breaks in between. Its not healthy for your back to sit down for so long.

 

Also make it so the game doesnt run unless you are under the 250 weight limit. Instead of token keys we should have an electronic weight reader that shuts down your computer unless you read a healthy weight. Lets make it so!

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@Propheteer

 

there are reasons laid out throughout this 10 page thread as to why this mechanic may exist aside from anyone giving a sickly rat's bum about your health.  You are not obliged to read any of those comments... but distracting from any chance at meaningful and productive discourse out of ignorance of what's been said is annoying, at best.

 

For the record, no.  I personally couldn't possibly care less about your health.  In fact, if it ain't visible from my deed, it don't exist in my book.

 

All this "woe is me, I'm such a victim of other people telling me what to do" cripe is childish at this point.  Nobody cares folks.  Saunter through traffic if you like, have yourself a deep-fried bacon sugar butter biscuit with a pint of greased down gravy... for breakfast... every day.

 

Ain't none of this about any of that.  If you honestly think Rolf sat down one morning and decided to spend time coding in a mechanic out of concern for your health... I got me a nice bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell ya.

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And this continues.   Near as I can see, the only people in favour of fatigue are;
1) A couple people who seem to think their opinion about what other people do with their free time is any of their business.
2) Staff who would rather argue about weather or not the mechanic is technically broken, as if that technicality even matters.   Broken. not broken, it's a problem either way.

There, 10 pages summed up.   Group 1 can get off their self important high horse.   Group 2 can do something about the problem. 
There, everyone has something to do now.  Get to it :)
 

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Everything needs limits ... Even a sandbox game. I see nothing wrong with leaving the fatigue limit where it is. Rolf had his reason for setting it, and if Rolf and Budda want it to stay as it is I as a Player offer no objections as to why they should not be able to do so.

 

[edited]

 

If I hit the fatigue limit while playing Wurm then to me it's an alarm that I am spending way too much time playing a game and for my own health and sanity I need to go do something else for a while, maybe even for a few days. Anything taken to excess can be bad, especially leisure activities like games. That's not sitting on "a high horse", that's real life common sense about what is physically and medically healthy for a person. Even if I was wheelchair or still bedridden like I once was I would still take a break. If that is the underlying reason for Rolf setting the fatigue system in place in the first place and keeping it then I am in agreement with him.

Edited by geode
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You cannot have a debate with someone if you are flipping one of your biggest selling points back and forth. You are saying now that it really doesn't matter if it is broken or not but it is a problem, but you spent how many posts defending that it is a broken mechanic so it should be fixed for that reason. It was pointed out that wasn't a broken mechanic but in this day and age something that doesn't fulfill the needs it was added for, which changes your argument for it considerably. Instead of it being a broken mechanic thus the Devs need to fix it, it becomes a mechanic you disagree with, and thus is under no requirement to be fixed. Additionally, the staff who pointed this out(including myself of course) are not any staff that can do something about the problem; the only ones who can do something about it are the Devs and it is their choice to change it or leave it as is.

 

You are so blinded by the idea that the mechanic has to be changed that you hardly address valid points that people raise and instead tell them to get off their high horse? How serious do you expect people to take your stance on a matter if that is the mentality you take?

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1 hour ago, Shrimpiie said:

You are so blinded by the idea that the mechanic has to be changed that you hardly address valid points that people raise and instead tell them to get off their high horse? How serious do you expect people to take your stance on a matter if that is the mentality you take?


Their arguments have been countered several times over in this thread.   And then they repeat their same arguments about needing to restrict playtime and then their arguments get countered again.   I'm tired of this issue being held up in "do nothing land" while the same people argue about how what anyone else does in their free time is anyone else's business.  so I gave a brief, to the point, summery. 
Now, since you can't fix the problem, please go find someone who can, and ask them to fix it.    Any mechanic that outright prevents players from playing, needs to be fixed.  That's not hard to figure out.   
Instead of actually addressing the problem though, we get staff who want to argue about the meaning of broken, and to discuss debate......    Wurm staff have to be the most frustrating staff I have ever had to deal with.....

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4 hours ago, Shrimpiie said:

You are saying now that it really doesn't matter if it is broken or not but it is a problem

That is because the term 'broken' triggers someone as if when it's just bad and not really broken means that it doesn't deserve attention.

 

Well I hope for the start that @Arium's posts have been noticed. Maybe fixing that behaviour will make it just fine.

Edited by zigozag

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Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

Spoiler

If code's flawed(I'm not going to look for decompiled server.jar and read it.. it's not my job) and miscalculates the fatigue time a player should get.. that should be addressed, that aside.. doesn't change the math behind fatigue and how it regenerates a decent amount of work time ingame.. Which is not that related to playtime and playstyle(maybe for some).. it only somehow limits the work a player could do every day.

 

That keeps the vets to be vets and not outskilled in few months by somebody fresh with or w/o knowledge of the game's mechanics.

WU code and tips from vets could do wonders for a new player when it comes to grinding much more efficiently than the old players(using their old typical grind habits), stronger casts are only easier to find, @zigozagyou alone beg to be replaced from the market.

 

Edited by Finnn

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Okay, caffeine fueled idea, so fair warning.

Instead of preventing doing actions when you are out of fatigue, your stam regen is cut in half.    This way, legit players can keep playing(at a slower pace) and macros will be running at min stam getting almost no skill gains and really long action times so they will at least be slowed down.  

It's not the fix I want, but since I doubt the staff will ever get rid of this outdated(ANd probably useless) macro system I would accept slower stam regen when out of fatigue, at least I could keep playing.

Still, in my opinion, it would just be easier to get rid of Fatigue, or go to the line of code where max fatigue is set at 12 hours and just change that to 99 if removing fatigue is to hard/time consuming.   99hrs of fatigue would be more then enough :)

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Why not just add something similar to a 'bot check' after you run out of fatigue, that you have to answer every 30 minutes (with randomization) or something in order to keep playing?

Something like in Syrnia, if anyone ever played that.

 

Macro users get caught, grinders can keep going, problem solved.

 

The idea that 'some people should be held back' doesn't even make sense any more... some people are 10 years 'ahead' of new players, so even if it was a competition, it's already over.

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Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

Spoiler

Not at all.. you could be 100 on some random skill in several months, skill gains, enchants, mechanics, etc.. were different that long ago.. there have been bunch of QoL updates and new skill boosters; more deities with missions etc etc etc... it's a lot easier to grind now, even after fixing metas like arrows in bsbs to get fletching/carving knife/knives skill/bc and w/e else came from that action.

 

To you.. it doesnt, to me it does make sense to keep some limit

Captchas and equations to solve... bots often perform better than people do.. on avrg. :/

 

The other "solution", solves nothing, only adds irritation to these with 0 fatigue.. 2x slower stamina regeneration does nothing if somebody could keep grinding skill and making bulk goods 24/7.

 

Edited by Finnn

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8 minutes ago, Finnn said:
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Not at all.. you could be 100 on some random skill in several months, skill gains, enchants, mechanics, etc.. were different that long ago.. there have been bunch of QoL updates and new skill boosters; more deities with missions etc etc etc... it's a lot easier to grind now, even after fixing metas like arrows in bsbs to get fletching/carving knife/knives skill/bc and w/e else came from that action.

 

To you.. it doesnt, to me it does make sense to keep some limit

Captchas and equations to solve... bots often perform better than people do.. on avrg. :/

 

The other "solution", solves nothing, only adds irritation to these with 0 fatigue.. 2x slower stamina regeneration does nothing if somebody could keep grinding skill and making bulk goods 24/7.

 

 

Can you say why you want a limit? If it's just so you can 'catch up', it doesn't matter....you can't. Unless the 'top' players all quit and never sell their accounts and no one else beats you to it...and you grind for like 5+ years non-stop.

 

Doesn't have to be a captcha... a CA could pm you a random question or something every hour...it isn't like there are a lot of people hitting fatigue timer every day.

Edited by Gekko
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Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

Spoiler

Doesn't matter if I want a limit or think that there should be one..

Game had that for so long.. and it didn't bother anybody, well not that often until now.

 

To this moment we've explained POVs several times already... only thing that matters is if CC thinks that this have to change.. and how.

 

Edited by Finnn

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3 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Doesn't matter if I want a limit or think that there should be one..

 

Seems to matter a lot, given how much you post in this thread.

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13 hours ago, Finnn said:

. and it didn't bother anybody, well not that often until now.

 

You know this because you have special swami powers?

 

I have a friend who raged over this 2 years ago when he first hit the limits, he just does not bother posting his ###### on the forums cause he would get trolled by the likes of you, then he has to troll back and so on and so on. I am sure other people have been unhappy about this far longer than you have been playing wurm.

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8 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

I am sure other people have been unhappy about this far longer than you have been playing wurm.

 

*waves*

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Just because it doesnt affect you it doesnt mean is not important.

 

A hard "playtime" cap does nothing. A botter can simply cycle accounts once they reach fatigue. And guess what? It can be made automatic. Once the cap is reached, they close that client and start a new one. In fact, it makes it harder to catch the botter because they are forced to "log off" after a predetermined amount of time, only to then cycle to the next account. While the real player has to fume and feel frustrated because they can no longer play the game.

 

If a bot/macro ran 18-24 hours a day for a week straight, on the same account, I am sure a GM would come investigate. Caught. But someome that plays 12 hours a day or less does not attract attention. Pray tell then, how is this system beneficial?

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29 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

If a bot/macro ran 18-24 hours a day for a week straight, on the same account, I am sure a GM would come investigate. Caught. But someome that plays 12 hours a day or less does not attract attention. Pray tell then, how is this system beneficial?

 

If the macro detecting system is lousy (not sure how often or well the GMs comb "suspicious" activity) then a hard cap like this is the best we have.

 

I'm all for fatigue powders. 3 hours of fatigue for 1s. Plenty of wiggle room for people to play, but economically unviable for botters or macroers.

Edited by Hailene

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1 hour ago, Hailene said:

 

If the macro detecting system is lousy (not sure how often or well the GMs comb "suspicious" activity) then a hard cap like this is the best we have.

 

I'm all for fatigue powders. 3 hours of fatigue for 1s. Plenty of wiggle room for people to play, but economically unviable for botters or macroers.

 

Hey players, pay for the right to continue playing our game that you already pay us for

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46 minutes ago, Nadroj said:

 

Hey players, pay for the right to continue playing our game that you already pay us for

This.

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