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Chaos map reset

chaos map reset  

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  1. 1. chaos map reset



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Oh i didn't miss the point. Someone did. But it wasn't me.

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[14:23:13] <Retrograde> its not happening

[14:25:29] <Retrograde> the devs wont reset the map just to "spice things up"

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How about we work on other issues affecting PvP before wiping everyones hard work for the sake of running around on a fresh map for a few months?

 

I get the feeling of stagnation within PvP, and I get the desire for change, but a reset is not that change.

 

Every major request for changes within PvP are met with KvK drama and essentially a "you only want this because it benefits you!"

 

Given the whole time and money investment, it's not possible to make changes just to see how they go, people win and lose valuable items, as well as time invested. This means that before making a big change we need to seriously evaluate the impact of the change, how it could be exploited, and what goal we're aiming at with it, does it meet that goal? does it improve the flow?

Spend time discussing suggestions other than a blanket reset, put aside the KvK focus and really work on whether it improves play style, rather than "does this benefit me or the enemy?". Work on possible mechanics changes rather than just vague changes, after all, the body strength Damage reduction curve change came from you all, you know PvP, you know what doesn't work, help us with feedback and ideas and I'll see about getting it looked at.

 

In case my point wasn't clear. When I spoke with the developers about the merge/reset of epic, it also included the possibility of a merge/reset of chaos. Both of those are off the table and not something we're looking at.

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

How about we work on other issues affecting PvP before wiping everyones hard work for the sake of running around on a fresh map for a few months?

 

Because you guys can't be trusted with long term solutions because they just won't happen on a time scale a human can live through, we've been waiting and waiting and waiting if you want people to stop asking show us you actually have a plan because I cannot name 1 person in JK who believes you guys will do anything within the next 2 years...

 

You guys are always preaching to us that you are working on it, but couldn't even manage a mention in the future roadmap for pvp and in almost a year now still have no public plan to move forward after you assured us all you guys where making it a top priority(in 2 year apparently still have not seen anything substantial out of that talk and anything we got took so much badgering for single line code changes...) other than trust of we are professions we got this guys would we lie to you, so ya retro we trust you fully  /sarcasm

 

7 hours ago, Nadroj said:

Oh i didn't miss the point. Someone did. But it wasn't me.

That's ok nothing to be embarrassed about dude no need to lie if you actually read it you might have a constructive comment to add to the discussion, I realize everyone cannot read well so I'll work on getting an audio version up just for you so you can understand to buddy no child left behind ya kno where I come from we will have you reading English in no time! Than maybe you can try and actually post a constructive reply to someone so you look like your actually trying to be apart of the discussion and solution instead of trolling it? Oh wait MRC right, ignore that last sentence return to trolling every suggestion thread lets just burn wurm to the ground while where at it? Even if you don't like the suggestion or think it will never happen don't post or be constructive(constructive can be tearing an idea apart with ideas instead the MRC classic of insults over logic).

Edited by Darklords

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33 minutes ago, Darklords said:

 

Because you guys can't be trusted with long term solutions because they just won't happen on a time scale a human can live through, we've been waiting and waiting and waiting if you want people to stop asking show us you actually have a plan because I cannot name 1 person in JK who believes you guys will do anything within the next 2 years...

Anyone remember the cries for help with epic?

all the bugs and shitty mechanics we wanted changed?

Remember how around the new year rolf promised incomming stuff?

Anyone remember their implementation? cuz i sure dont.

Does anyone remember the promises of focus on epic aswell as pvp after the cooking update?

Does anyone remember what was actually on the roadmap?

Did anyone see epic or even pvp?

But in a few months time maybe they actually start to work on epic updates, I'm sure the server will stay healthy untill-

1 hour ago, LorenaMontana said:

9/1600

oh. It's dead and deserted.

Right.

 

But it's not the devs fault.

Becouse they didnt do anything.

Edited by Zekezor
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I know you guys think your taking your time for good reason, and if we where a normal indie game studio with even 2 full time fully paid programmers(Min for a game with a player base the size of Wurm before everyone left) I would appreciate it immensely.  Unfortunately we do not seem to have even 1 full time guy and just a ton of part time people and volunteers no wonder nothing ever gets done, and when you tell us your taking your time on it to us that translates to its going to take us several months to a year because we are so understaffed developer wise.

 

So retro sorry we try and feed you nothing but quick fixes these day, but every kingdom in the game laid out longer term fixes to you almost a year ago now and we have seen less than 1% of them actually implemented. At this point we only suggest and push stuff like this because it's honestly all we feel we can expect from you these days with the amount of effort and the time scales you want us to wait for anything else.

 

All we are asking for is a month or two where we get the same focus as the pve server get, some large updates focused on pvp and not leak over from pve content that happens to kinda work for pvp and not empty promises of waiting a little longer when that was the same line you told us a year ago was to wait a little longer. We have waited a long time, please throw us a bone we are tired and broken and just want some hope that you guys are not just pushing us aside and forgetting us like we all feel like you are doing.

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4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

How about we work on other issues affecting PvP before wiping everyones hard work for the sake of running around on a fresh map for a few months?

 

I get the feeling of stagnation within PvP, and I get the desire for change, but a reset is not that change.

 

Every major request for changes within PvP are met with KvK drama and essentially a "you only want this because it benefits you!"

 

Given the whole time and money investment, it's not possible to make changes just to see how they go, people win and lose valuable items, as well as time invested. This means that before making a big change we need to seriously evaluate the impact of the change, how it could be exploited, and what goal we're aiming at with it, does it meet that goal? does it improve the flow?

Spend time discussing suggestions other than a blanket reset, put aside the KvK focus and really work on whether it improves play style, rather than "does this benefit me or the enemy?". Work on possible mechanics changes rather than just vague changes, after all, the body strength Damage reduction curve change came from you all, you know PvP, you know what doesn't work, help us with feedback and ideas and I'll see about getting it looked at.

 

In case my point wasn't clear. When I spoke with the developers about the merge/reset of epic, it also included the possibility of a merge/reset of chaos. Both of those are off the table and not something we're looking at.


 

Quote

put aside the KvK focus and really work on whether it improves play style, rather than "does this benefit me or the enemy?". Work on possible mechanics changes rather than just vague changes


You can look at any suggestion and say it's KvK - or because a kingdom is winning they're asking for it - I get the feeling you took that from the last 2 suggestions of drain increase and disintergration bonuses, tho actually they are broken mechanics that was pointed out clear as day, we even had enemy kingdoms speak up for it, I think devs take it as a "we're winning so this change needs to happen" yet we suggested Karma mechanic to be implemented so defenders can't just teleport across the map, JKC was the side getting raided at that point and we needed to defend, but we still suggested it. [We didn't know MR would just walk away] lol

I think a Chaos reset should happen because [for once] I agree with @jakerivers and @redd who have both said in different threads that the current mechanic changes [yes fixing the broken ones] are working against deeds/areas they gained because they were built on the foundation of the old mechanics. They said they could stomach these and further mechanic changes under a new map, since we'd all be basing our land/deeds on those mechanics and it would be fair.

I also get the sense you think a reset doesn't help based on Elevation, Keenan atleast has already said based on Elevation a reset wouldn't help, but the elevation reset did help, we had tons of players, most of JKE players quit due to the devs updates which worked against PVP and the slow changes to the mechanics that worked against raiding/roaming. For me mine doors not shutting killed roaming and camping out in the middle of the map, now we just drop war deeds to spend time somewhere, information ministor done alot of damage too oh and the fact the map was landbridge / chokehold heaven, please, the reset didn't fail, the follow up did. [Tho mine doors were changed before this]
This is why I think it would be better to implement mechanics onto a live server [Chaos] until we're in a good place with how pvp works etc, then we reset or make a new map with those mechanics intact, so that it's a fresh slate for all kingdoms on new mechanics. On a note for epic; i think 80% of us would like to go back to the old ele map, since the new map size just doesnt work for epic. Tho this was ignored too.

If reset is off the table, OH BOY, @retrograde and @devs you have HARD choices to make. Some will be against me and some will be against the enemy, but you must start making hard choices when it comes to mechanics so that the map can flow more without becoming stagnite, so the map and areas of the map can evolve every year to become something diffrerent than the last. Guess what, deed draining and disintergration bonus comes into that, I am 100% ok with being raided and pushed off areas and losing deeds as long as it's fun. Kingdoms should be pushed off and out of areas, it's good for the map. It's good for pvp. It's the only way a map can stay fresh.

Speed of updates, they're too slow retro, we're all paying prem to see little change at not enough speed when it comes to pvp - i think this is the biggest problem, if more of the changes we suggested at the start of the year were implemented, pvp would be halfway fixed.

I hate to say it, but you need to see that we do have certain people pushing against updates that affect them. I hope we get to a point where the map has so many contested points which change, that I will be on the recieving end of the mechanics we suggest, which, obviously one day with any update we make, will eventually happen. If the next update which would help pvp and create 5+ years of wurm meant that I had to be defeated 30 times, I'd be defeated 30 times. Alot of us suggesting the changes feel this way too, cause that is better than seeing a game we love simply die out due to poor mechanics/stagnite.

 

Edited by Mclovin
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If you're not looking at resets or merges, what are you actually looking at? Give us some scope.

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chaos is fine everyone's just joining the cringy hype train so they can get a post in

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6 minutes ago, Cornchips said:

chaos is fine everyone's just joining the cringy hype train so they can get a post in

Chaos: 52/800

 

Your right cornchips, 52 active players on the only active pvp server midday is fine what was I thinking...

Edited by Darklords

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4 hours ago, Cornchips said:

chaos is fine everyone's just joining the cringy hype train so they can get a post in

 

its like a quarter of what it used to be long ago, its less than a quarter of what epic used to be. The game population is down over 50% now and still declining.

 

but ye its fine

 

lmao

 

Before a few of us stepped in and decided we wanted to have some fun in wurm, or try to at least, both pvp servers would be sub 20 right now. Not sure if you are aware how hard the veterans of the community are attempting to keep the pvp part of the game alive with little developer attention.

 

It really shows too, because the last time we paraded a WU server the WO pvp servers were literally worse than a ###### ghost town. (And, after seeing the effect, i'm sure its what made the staff rule that proper client-side WU anticheat couldn't be publicly advertised, you know, because it would kill the remaining pvp community.)

Edited by Propheteer

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wurm team ask us to suggest things

we suggest something

gets shot down

mfw ^

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honestly as much as i would like a reset, i dont think it would be that great with current tower system, and its just one of the things that comes to my mind

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i dont really see any negatives to making a new map and having chaos become a hunting server or whatever

 

the current map is honestly way too big to fit the player base and probably over half of the map is just sitting there with 0 purpose.

a smaller map would be nice and would bring back old players and perhaps some new players, i can't really see why that's bad or hard for the dev team to see but ok

- perhaps it stems from the fact that none of you play on the server and therefore can't understand?

 

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would be nice to get Retro to play on chaos for a month in every kingdom

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20 hours ago, Sin said:

would be nice to get Retro to play on chaos for a month in every kingdom

 

The problem with Retro and Budda etc is that from what I gather they have absolutely zero interest in pvp, another reason I believe any pvp changes are extremely slow to come about, to the point of being non existent.

 

I do agree that tower chaining etc should be introduced before any new map or reset is implemented along wiht other changes -  2 years is way to long to wait for them though.

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I don't think any major reset will ever happen (until it's too late atleast) because the team doesn't know their own game, they think that wurm pvp can sustain itself long-term while the result so far is a dead epic cluster and a dead chaos server, which is partly due to the terrible changes over the last two-three years, but also because everything is getting stacked, when plebs have all the good valrei items stacked, 100 fs 100 shield/weaponskill, 90 characteristic stats with exploits used through the years, it isn't exactly an incentive to keep playing or start playing in the first place

 

 

adding some flower pots or new ###### gods that ruins the game, or writing forum posts every few months promising for real change when the only things that have changed so far is underwater buildings, mine buildings, locate soul is buffed, they're all defensive changes which is terrible for pvp ain't cutting it

 

i'm assuming most pvp changes are shilled from staff on epic and chaos which hasn't pvped for real in a few years and barely did before that either, guillotine their ass and find some players to advise for changes which actually have some experience with pvp and wants to pvp

Edited by changer
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I'm still feeling the sting of the last PvP change (Heal and LoF nerfs) thank you very much.

 

Really the big change needed is separate mechanics for PvE and PvP servers.  That way PvP can go on and grow without crapping on the PvE players, meanwhile the PvE game can get some nice mechanics back without ruining it for the PvPers.

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I know there's 2 sides to server wipes and new maps been added and yes freedom gets them and everyone loves to start on a new server. People complain about the community being spread out, so it's a double edged sword. But both reset and new maps rekindle peoples gameplay and give them a new adventure. I'm not say it's time for a new PVE map, but Chaos has never seen this as far as i know.

 

My suggestion is -

 

Make a new server, not a huge server but one that is chaos size or a tad less.

Allow chaos, epic and freedom players to teleport to it. Teleport only self, no items.

Skill gain rate to stay at freedom speed.

 

Wiping a server has too many fore and against. there is a lot of work thats been there for eons, destroying chaos is not a good idea, but having a place that is fresh for people to go and start a new frontier would be sweet. It seems that a lot of people are bored.

 

TLDR - Make a pvp sever that everyone can teleport too. Dont wipe people hard work, but make a place that can give pvp players something new and exciting. A place that everyone that wants to pvp are on the same level playing field.

 

Good, Bad, ugly?

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

I'm still feeling the sting of the last PvP change (Heal and LoF nerfs) thank you very much.

 

Really the big change needed is separate mechanics for PvE and PvP servers.  That way PvP can go on and grow without crapping on the PvE players, meanwhile the PvE game can get some nice mechanics back without ruining it for the PvPers.


Well that spell was OP in both pvp and pve so if you felt a sting too bad. i'd +1 this debuff on freedom aswell. 

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2 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

I'm still feeling the sting of the last PvP change (Heal and LoF nerfs) thank you very much.

 

Really the big change needed is separate mechanics for PvE and PvP servers.  That way PvP can go on and grow without crapping on the PvE players, meanwhile the PvE game can get some nice mechanics back without ruining it for the PvPers.

i get what youre saying about that change

 

but that heal nerf wasnt even 1% of the problem, they avoid changing the serious issues with pvp.

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52 minutes ago, Milosanx said:

My suggestion is -

 

Make a new server, not a huge server but one that is chaos size or a tad less.

Allow chaos, epic and freedom players to teleport to it. Teleport only self, no items.

Skill gain rate to stay at freedom speed.

 

Wiping a server has too many fore and against. there is a lot of work thats been there for eons, destroying chaos is not a good idea, but having a place that is fresh for people to go and start a new frontier would be sweet. It seems that a lot of people are bored.

 

TLDR - Make a pvp sever that everyone can teleport too. Dont wipe people hard work, but make a place that can give pvp players something new and exciting. A place that everyone that wants to pvp are on the same level playing field.

 

Good, Bad, ugly?

I've suggested the same thing to my kingdom members, for the most part people seem to think it would be a good idea.
I know when I was doing recruitment on freedom peoples biggest concern about trying PvP was getting stranded there if things didn't work out / we got pushed out, and for good reason. I have seen people stranded there on multiple occasions. I also think that minedoors shutting would be a positive change, but in the same sense, sticking a prem alt in a minedoor with a reinforced behind right infront of an enemy deed would be pretty dumb. I thought it would be good to pair with the increased logout timer that I believe was considered, but I'm not entirely sure anymore.
 

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Can't base the game around what an alt might do, you should make it so mine doors OFF DEED get bashed a HELLA lot faster, maybe. 

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I wonder how long they think we will beg for changes that we actually want, before we stop trying altogether. 

 

To the devs,

 

Why not look at the PvP side of the game from our point of view, we may have been wrong in the past for a reset of ele map ( its not like we got what we asked for entirely anyway), but that doesn't mean you should ignore this and say no to a merge or reset. You might think that what you have planned ( or don't have planned) might be the right way to go, but I think its quite clear that this is what we want. You might upset a meager few, but you'll continue losing people if something isn't done.

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I'm curious as to when the pvp changes are actually gonna happen, it seems as if the devs keep putting other new things above fixing the actual game. Since they're not for the upcoming dev plans then i wonder, they keep getting pushed away and im afraid when they finally decide to look into it, it will be too late.

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