Chaos map reset

[Drastox 332]

34 minutes ago, Scuffed said:

I'm curious as to when the pvp changes are actually gonna happen, it seems as if the devs keep putting other new things above fixing the actual game. Since they're not for the upcoming dev plans then i wonder, they keep getting pushed away and im afraid when they finally decide to look into it, it will be too late.

 

That's why the people who still care about it are sticking around voicing their concerns, giving ideas and basically fighting for change. That can only happen for so long.

[Worksock 465]

13 hours ago, Scuffed said:

I'm curious as to when the pvp changes are actually gonna happen, it seems as if the devs keep putting other new things above fixing the actual game. Since they're not for the upcoming dev plans then i wonder, they keep getting pushed away and im afraid when they finally decide to look into it, it will be too late.

it's already too late m8

sure they can fix the game now, but I doubt that would bring back players

game is just too low pop right now to attract anyone to come back

 

something big like a reset or merge is sure to bring a boost to pop though

[Oreo 5,793]

It's literally already too late, for anything.

[Drastox 332]

80% out of 95 people/give or take random alts if any. 

 

Maybe the number of people who voted isn't enough.. I get that.

 

Those people couldn't wait any longer ...

 

Make wurm great again

[Rudie 1,480]

I'm all for a new pvp map but keep Chaos as a legacy server as some have mentioned to allow Freedomers to visit and see some of the great history created over the years. 

[SeeD 117]

Make Chaos a hardcore hunting server. Valrei mobs,  stronger more greenish creatures, no deeds

 

Allow a one time stat transfer to Epic, if your stats on freedom are higher, they overwrite epic stats.

 

Consolidate the PvPers on Epic, and then work from there on issues like raiding and so on.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by SeeD

[Cornchips 3,037]

it should be the opposite fam

[Makarus 458]

6 minutes ago, Cornchips said:

it should be the opposite fam

As much as it would annoy me for some ######a who got his skills up on the race track to enter an established geriatric speedway without a penalty, I can see more good than bad coming from it.

 

If pvp were to consolidate, my vote would go to a new freedom pvp server...

 

Possibly named elevation 3.0, with pvpish homeservers and the far flung freedom to the west. Literally reset and copypasta epic maps to the cluster. We would have a massive world to explore. ###### epic.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Makarus
fritos

[Rudie 1,480]

7 minutes ago, Cornchips said:

it should be the opposite fam

 

[SeeD 117]

Why the opposite? Why not send PvP to epic rather than epic to a new server?

[Cornchips 3,037]

i don't get that either way it would be a new server to the moving crowd

[Makarus 458]

Just now, SeeD said:

Why the opposite? Why not send PvP to epic rather than epic to a new server?

Because rather than deporation, to an isolated server with no connection to home, why not bring everyone here as immigrants with no home?

 

At least there would be life. Global activity which would give players on either minicluster(if merged to the same supercluster) the ability to mingle with the natives and a socially active playerbase keeps people longer than a silent majority.

[SeeD 117]

Because moving epic > freedom would mean closing down 4 servers with population on them all (albeit small). Elevation is a relatively fresh map with plenty of space (albeit a lot of water) and there's also the option of home servers.

 

I don't see the need for PvP players to be able to access freedom beyond the selling of PvP goods, home servers provide some relative peace enough.

[Rasu 561]

Why would we want to be locked off completely from the rest of freedom and get no support from devs.

[SeeD 117]

The no support from devs argument is silly, there's been plenty of support from the devs since budda took over, we just cant agree on anything other than "omg reset"

 

one of the biggest draws for chaos has been the ability for existing players to migrate over, skills earned on freedom translates to skills in PvP, withut having to regrind on epic (curve or not).

 

Allowing a stat transfer means players could still travel to epic and be skilled there without regrinding, and we'd have a sensible PvP/PvE split

[Scuffed 27]

c

[Rasu 561]

50 minutes ago, SeeD said:

The no support from devs argument is silly, there's been plenty of support from the devs since budda took over, we just cant agree on anything other than "omg reset"

 

one of the biggest draws for chaos has been the ability for existing players to migrate over, skills earned on freedom translates to skills in PvP, withut having to regrind on epic (curve or not).

 

Allowing a stat transfer means players could still travel to epic and be skilled there without regrinding, and we'd have a sensible PvP/PvE split

 

I started on freedom so tell me again why I would cut myself off on a cluster where even small changes take months to finally make it through.

[SeeD 117]

16 minutes ago, Rasu said:

 

I started on freedom so tell me again why I would cut myself off on a cluster where even small changes take months to finally make it through.

why are you cutting yourself off if skills transfer?

 

Or is it the ability to make money by selling kingdom exclusive items?

Edited November 11, 2016 by SeeD

[Nadroj 3,554]

Yeah that's conducive to a reasoned discussion, suggest that the person with a different opinion to yours only holds it for monetary gain. Good job.

[SeeD 117]

12 minutes ago, Nadroj said:

Yeah that's conducive to a reasoned discussion, suggest that the person with a different opinion to yours only holds it for monetary gain. Good job.

I'm not suggesting it's only for that, im asking if it is.

 

If the clusters allow skillgain transfers, what would hold someone back?

 

Given the desire for Chaos to be reset, or a new server, it would not be the server itself holding these people back, so there would need to be reasons as to which way to consolidate PvP servers, why merge epic into chaos when chaos would be merged into Epic, giving one pvp to focus on, as well as improve how missions work, valrei scenarios, and home servers.

 

This would mean that PvP would have a distinctly different flavour to PvE, would also allow the devs to focus on one PvP system rather than the differences between epic and chaos, and would also allow them to have the epic curve and skillgain system intact - perhaps even boosted - without affecting PvE.

 

along from this would mean that it's easier for players to move from freedom to epic (a big downside being having to regrind skills) but would also allow NEW players to start on elevation (or a home server) and gain skill to be pvp effective sooner.

 

PvP is end game content, and comes before skillgain. Challenge placed the focus on PvP over skillgain a little too much with how fast the timers and the skills went, but WU also shows us that PvP gets more people involved when skillgain isnt so slow, so perhaps something could be worked on there

Edited November 11, 2016 by SeeD

[rixk 830]

Heh, reset. Yes, I bring up the Elevation reset, which was supposed to be the best thing that ever happened to Epic, after nerfing of SOTG. Reality is, that it initially worked as a change, which made people curious and they came to check it out. After a while the numbers were dropping even lower. What happened? In one instant it was years of collective effort of all kingdoms wiped out of existance, I don't know who would even think that is a good idea. All the strings, which players had with elevation, were cut. So yeah, while I don't say this is the only reason that has killed the Epic, it played a big part of it.

 

Now you want to do the same with Chaos. I think it is time to admit, that playing a game doesn't make anyone an awesome game designer. Sad thing is, that devs have no clue either, otherwise they wouldn't implement every idea, which players come up with. Players usually don't see bigger picture, pretty much all the balancing suggestions are being done for controlled situations, for MOBA games, where every situation is controlled and sides are equal. In Wurm, things are different, you may have perfect balance for 1vs1 scenarios, nice in theory, but when there are no 1vs1 fights in game, completely pointless. For example the new PvP body strength mitigation formula. In one situation BS was OP, in another it was equaliser, in third it didn't matter at all. So how do you say you are balancing something, when you change the formula, when you don't have any control about the situations which players encounter?

 

But these are things on which the players have been focusing on, minor details. And because of bigger egos than average they take "no" as an answer, "I said it, it has to be done!", that leads to months of spam.

[Propheteer 7,139]

43 minutes ago, rixk said:

Heh, reset. Yes, I bring up the Elevation reset, which was supposed to be the best thing that ever happened to Epic, after nerfing of SOTG. Reality is, that it initially worked as a change, which made people curious and they came to check it out. After a while the numbers were dropping even lower. What happened? In one instant it was years of collective effort of all kingdoms wiped out of existance, I don't know who would even think that is a good idea. All the strings, which players had with elevation, were cut. So yeah, while I don't say this is the only reason that has killed the Epic, it played a big part of it.

 

Now you want to do the same with Chaos. I think it is time to admit, that playing a game doesn't make anyone an awesome game designer. Sad thing is, that devs have no clue either, otherwise they wouldn't implement every idea, which players come up with. Players usually don't see bigger picture, pretty much all the balancing suggestions are being done for controlled situations, for MOBA games, where every situation is controlled and sides are equal. In Wurm, things are different, you may have perfect balance for 1vs1 scenarios, nice in theory, but when there are no 1vs1 fights in game, completely pointless. For example the new PvP body strength mitigation formula. In one situation BS was OP, in another it was equaliser, in third it didn't matter at all. So how do you say you are balancing something, when you change the formula, when you don't have any control about the situations which players encounter?

 

But these are things on which the players have been focusing on, minor details. And because of bigger egos than average they take "no" as an answer, "I said it, it has to be done!", that leads to months of spam.

 

 

The reset was one of the best things, the population went up to almost what it was when the cluister released for several months.

The nerf of SOTG was half-assed and it was nowhere near enough, SOTG is still the best path for pvp by a huge margin and its still enough to prevent interruptions of any sort. Its like an additional 50 body strength.

Do you know why the people who came back quit again? Because when they came back, they had hoped the devs had a change of heart, but instead, there wasnt a single change made until the population was already in the shitter. Its only just recently getting to the point where its lower than it was at the end days of the previous map. Lets look at that SOTG change. You know when it was made? when the server was already sub 20 population. You know when it was asked for? Two, almost three years prior, about a suggestion thread every month. (I guess its the result of just going "lol that sounds cool" and adding it into the game and making it take an absurdly long time at a minimum without testing it. This results in people not wanting six months of their time, at a minimum, taken away regardless of how shitty of a feature it is.)

 

You have no idea how PvP works. You have no idea the meta that has been created around deed building, design, PvP. You have no idea how much harder it becomes to do anything the less clean a map is. You have no idea how much harder it is to roam around the more deeds there are. You have no idea who quit a server and why (but we do, because we have played with the same people for the past 8 years because this game has probably set the record for the least new players to a pvp community ever.)

 

Sure, the chaos reset has some of the same reasons in mind, but a lot of different reasons too.

 

If you had experienced playing on a fresh server, and then compared it to playing on a server how it is now, you would know the difference. Its night and day, i've had developers publicly admit that this game is terribly balanced after a certain point. After a while, nobody wants to take any risks, and it becomes too time consuming to do anything meaningful, and the worst part is all the PvP mechanics at their core are designed for a different environment entirely and it shows.

 

 

Also, to the people complaining about the economy: Stop.

 

If PvPers wanted to, at any time, could completely collapse a large portion of the market. Its more or less people selling for a little money on the side that doesn't really have too much of an effect, going off the differences from when the servers were completely separated.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Propheteer

[Rasu 561]

59 minutes ago, SeeD said:

why are you cutting yourself off if skills transfer?

 

Or is it the ability to make money by selling kingdom exclusive items?

 

Sure does show your lack of understanding. Being that I started on freedom pretty much everyone I know lives on the freedom side of the cluster as well as roots I put down myself on servers other than chaos.

[rixk 830]

4 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

 

Ok, lets debunk this.

 

The reset was one of the best things, the population went up to almost what it was when the cluister released for several months.

The nerf of SOTG was half-assed and it was nowhere near enough, SOTG is still the best path for pvp by a huge margin and its still enough to prevent interruptions of any sort. Its like an additional 50 body strength.

Do you know why the people who came back quit again? Because when they came back, they had hoped the devs had a change of heart, but instead, there wasnt a single change made until the population was already in the shitter. Its only just recently getting to the point where its lower than it was at the end days of the previous map

 

You have no idea how PvP works. You have no idea the meta that has been created around deed building, design, PvP. You have no idea how much harder it becomes to do anything the less clean a map is. You have no idea how much harder it is to roam around the more deeds there are. You have no idea who quit a server and why (but we do, because we have played with the same people for the past 8 years because this game has probably set the record for the least new players to a pvp community ever.)

 

If you had experienced playing on a fresh server, and then compared it to playing on a server how it is now, you would know the difference. Its night and day, i've had developers publicly admit that this game is terribly balanced after a certain point. After a while, nobody wants to take any risks, and it becomes too time consuming to do anything meaningful, and the worst part is all the PvP mechanics at their core are designed for a different environment entirely and it shows.

 

Yes, initially the numbers spiked, now it is dead.. I think the numbers speak for themselves, despite how awesome you want to paint the reset and other changes. What I have said about other things, I have said based on years of observations. The changes you guys suggest usually go through, some sooner, some after lengthy forum spamming... yet it has pretty much never had an effect you promise. So yeah, while I might not PvP, I say that again, the fact that you PvP, doesn't make your suggestions automatically good for the game. Usually they are motivated by selfinterest with the usual "arguments" like "this will bring thousands of new players", "everyone is quitting because of that", "without it the game will be dead".. or the most frequent "you don't do what I want, you don't care about us, pvp-ers".

[Propheteer 7,139]

1 minute ago, rixk said:

 

Yes, initially the numbers spiked, now it is dead.. I think the numbers speak for themselves, despite how awesome you want to paint the reset and other changes. What I have said about other things, I have said based on years of observations. The changes you guys suggest usually go through, some sooner, some after lengthy forum spamming... yet it has pretty much never had an effect you promise. So yeah, while I might not PvP, I say that again, the fact that you PvP, doesn't make your suggestions automatically good for the game. Usually they are motivated by selfinterest with the usual "arguments" like "this will bring thousands of new players", "everyone is quitting because of that", "without it the game will be dead".. or the most frequent "you don't do what I want, you don't care about us, pvp-ers".

 

Dont think anyone said it would bring thousands of new players. People stating that others are quitting because of x are probably correct. I know most people on chaos at least a fair bit, and most of us tend to complain about the same things. When you sit in teamspeak with 30 or 40 people and you hear 30 or 40 people complain about the same thing, and then you hear these people months later say i'd probably give it a try again if this was changed, odds are, they are probably fed up because of that mechanic. And yes, without something, the game will be dead. It's still in decline, we have lost over 50% of our population. The developers have only given bandaids, they have only addressed one serious issue out of all the ones brought up for over the past several years and the official reply is that it could take months for anything to happen. So if in a year, you lost 50% of your population, obvious bandaids are being ignored, the game is still in a similar state of decline, what is your forecast on waiting months for a change that (based on previous changes) will likely not be enough, remain unfinished, or just may not address any of the serious issues at all?