Sign in to follow this  
Zekezor

Exponential deed draining

Wololo  

56 members have voted

  1. 1. Should deed drain cap be removed?



Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Mclovin said:

We spoke to the wurm team a year ago about having a new-style last drain system where the defenders get to chose the time and the attackers mount an attack for that time - if attackers drain the deed disbands, if the defenders Defend it resets to 0, we suggested 5 being the last drain window. Nothing seems to be in the works for it atm but something like a code-change this simple is a better request @Rathgar

 

Yes, I understand the grim reality of the speed in wich changes are rolled in.

 

BTW, when you guys talked to the devs, what was the devs response?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Rathgar said:

 

Yes, I understand the grim reality of the speed in wich changes are rolled in.

 

BTW, when you guys talked to the devs, what was the devs response?

 

Good idea, he had no control on what got implemented and he would pass all feedback on but couldn't promises anything because its out of his control outside passing it out. (Was retrograde all the kingdoms talked to)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like how 9 people voted no and not a single one posted a valid reason to not have this change.
 Other than "lol u guys just want to make raiding easier!!!"

 

It's more like, don't punish people for raiding a deed 5+ days in a row with 18-40 hours inbetween raids (which is plenty of time to rebuild by the way)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JakeRivers said:

 

Coming from the same crowd that spends a grand on buying characters and gear


Does me buying a character create a money mechanic that stops you from removing a deed? Stick to the topic son.

 

Quote

With all these changes you want, eventually chaos will end up like epic with no one who wants to play anymore


False, if the changes were implemented to Epic like we asked for at a reasonable time [That the devs seem to be doing now for Chaos] epic would be very much alive. Let's not forget Epic was the better pvp server for all it's time, when the devs stopped fixing/implemented dire changes that's when it died, so if you want to base your argument on Epic, then you stopping the updates will be the death of chaos, as it was Epic, :)

Edited by Mclovin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Rathgar said:

 

Yes, I understand the grim reality of the speed in wich changes are rolled in.

 

BTW, when you guys talked to the devs, what was the devs response?


This was during a kingdom talk-idea-change list we had with Retrograde, after that a list was made and I think Keenan was working on updating raiding although that was mainly the catapulting part I think, it was a little vauge like when they say "gonna update hota" and give no specifics - During the talks with Retro, many ideas were thrown around but I think we all liked the seige-style-last drain window idea, tho it was never took further than talk.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey I have nothing against people buying accounts, just don't say omg you can just keep dumping money into a deed to prevent it from disbanding cause you have too much cash when you at the same time are dumping cash into your deeds and toons.

 

The mechanics are fine, if you prevent people from getting to a deed eventually someone is going to say enough on the spending. You just want this to happen sooner than later as you are all about insta gratification when you play. 

 

Why would you complain about getting too many drains on a deed, isn't that free silver?

 

If someone can save there deed by keeping the upkeep going a few more days, why should that option be taken away? Just because you raid a deed once and get a few drains in it should not mean its done simply because you choose a time on your schedule to hit it. 

 

I also do not see a need for 'eve reinforcement timers' in wurm either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if your deed is a certain size it is 2.25, but you can get roughly half that for most of the wardeeds that exist

 

20 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

Hey I have nothing against people buying accounts, just don't say omg you can just keep dumping money into a deed to prevent it from disbanding cause you have too much cash when you at the same time are dumping cash into your deeds and toons.

 

The mechanics are fine, if you prevent people from getting to a deed eventually someone is going to say enough on the spending. You just want this to happen sooner than later as you are all about insta gratification when you play. 

 

Why would you complain about getting too many drains on a deed, isn't that free silver?

 

If someone can save there deed by keeping the upkeep going a few more days, why should that option be taken away? Just because you raid a deed once and get a few drains in it should not mean its done simply because you choose a time on your schedule to hit it. 

 

I also do not see a need for 'eve reinforcement timers' in wurm either.

 

The character thing i don't see what point you are trying to make? We cant put money into deeds if we are putting them into accounts? But we are?

 

The mechanics are not fine.

 

If i wanted to cuck you, i could cap a tower south of Kratos, drop a deed, and put 250euros worth of silver in it. You can "have fun" draining an open token for 120 days consecutively (not including if we actually build anything or defend it and the morale hits that would incur if you died draining an open token.) And that is 120 days IF i decide to not put anymore money into it. Not to mention in that time, you cannot expand your influence in any direction, and if done a certain way, you would not be able to resize or modify guard counts any of your adjacent deeds that are within a certain distance. You also cannot cap towers, whose influence could be used to grief you to a further extent.

 

We even had the opportunity to do this at Hades Wall, but we decided against it because doing something like that is just being shitty to the rest of the playerbase. (and even if you had all the people and time in the world, there wouldn't be anything you could do about it. Sorry. What are you going to do, dig it to rock? Irrelevant.)

 

"its fine" LOL what a ###### joke

 

1s a day, free silver. "Hey i just spent 18 hours digging for 1s" You would make more money in a more efficient manner doing just about anything else in the game, its so low its not even a deterrent to the defenders.

 

Also, the problem isn't a few more days, its a few more weeks or months. (if abused properly)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 Just because you raid a deed once and get a few drains in it should not mean its done simply because you choose a time on your schedule to hit it. 
 

 

I don't think you understand the complaint or how deed draining works based on that reply.  Currently you can increase the drain from drain to drain upto 5 times if you don't wait more than 24 hours in between windows it caps off after 5 drains in a row it will reset if you miss a single drain.  We are just asking that the 5 cap be removed, if we can drain a deed 8 times in a row without being stopped why should the bonus from draining back to back stop at 5?  Beyond why should it as pointed out it's actually pretty broken to stop it at 5 considering how easy it is to just put 5 gold in it if you feel like it.

 

Why should we have to rely on some one to decide it is to expensive for their wallet to keep a deed its a broken mechanic, what should determine if you keep a deed is if you can fend off defenders 1 single time in a 5+ day window to reset it and keep your deed which seems to be much more in the spirit of a pvp server.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That concept can't be good for player retention, or getting new ones at that.

 

Y'all should be thinking of new ways to make battles more frequent and interesting, not ways to uproot as much as possible as drastically as possible, specially if there's an added bonus to doing it to someone who can't be at their PC at that moment.

 

(Yes, I'm brutally biased about)  Things like being able to join battle with multiple tamed crocs, for example, would make for better PvP than Player vs. Wallet.

 

My 2 iron.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎31‎.‎10‎.‎2016 at 5:38 PM, Propheteer said:

 

Can attest, we have a guy who spent 250e on wurm silver for his deed within an hour of returning to the game.

 

Good luck disbanding his deed with your 1s drains l0l

 

 

(and i actually love to see what MR would say when they realize they would have to drain his deed every day for about two months to even have an impact without the owner putting in any money.)

And I don't see any logical reason, why you feel entitled to take that 250euros and disband his deed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mordraug said:

That concept can't be good for player retention, or getting new ones at that.

 

Y'all should be thinking of new ways to make battles more frequent and interesting, not ways to uproot as much as possible as drastically as possible, specially if there's an added bonus to doing it to someone who can't be at their PC at that moment.

 

(Yes, I'm brutally biased about)  Things like being able to join battle with multiple tamed crocs, for example, would make for better PvP than Player vs. Wallet.

 

My 2 iron.

 

1 hour ago, rixk said:

And I don't see any logical reason, why you feel entitled to take that 250euros and disband his deed.

 

That's the way PvP works on Chaos. Your enemies found a 'war deed' near your lands and try to push and disband your deeds with raids and draining, if you want to win you have to raid and drain and destroy their war deed through siegeing it aggressively until they give up and disband. If they disband, you take over the area and push the enemy front line back.

War deeds aren't proper villages usually, most of them are more so outpost deeds, though people do live at them to defend them.

 

What this thread is trying to bring attention to is that with the above methods, if your enemy wanted to they could just keep putting little amounts of money into upkeep and the deed will never run out of upkeep, even if drained daily, because after 5 drains the amount you drain from the deed coffers resets back to first drain. From the 1st to 5th drain the drain amount doubles if you drain it every 24 hours. Because it resets, this means that you won't ever get rid of the deed and you wont be able to push the enemy back because it's very cheap to keep the deed there, you can also downsize it and lower guards and really make it a pain in the backside to remove the deed, no matter how much the attacking force obliterate it.

 

You may have the opinion that razing deeds isn't fun or thats not how it should be, but it is and has been throughout the history of Chaos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rixk said:

And I don't see any logical reason, why you feel entitled to take that 250euros and disband his deed.

 

because he could drop his deed and grief you for for as long as he wants (holding his own influence, preventing yours from growing, preventing you from resizing your deed, preventing you from dropping any more deeds) and the only solution you have to fix it is to disband his deed.

 

he can all of this with just an open token. its the equivalent of me getting control of everything around your deed on freedom just by paying 1s a day.

 

 

This is the problem though, if you haven't played on a PvP server you dont know how harmful ###### like this is, and no matter how much we explain it you still wont get the full picture.

 

Let me put it this way, you only need 16 deeds to block off anyone from doing anything on the entirety of chaos with clever tower placement. Size don't matter, could do 16 s5's.

Edited by Propheteer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

 

because he could drop his deed and grief you for for as long as he wants (holding his own influence, preventing yours from growing, preventing you from resizing your deed, preventing you from dropping any more deeds) and the only solution you have to fix it is to disband his deed.

 

he can all of this with just an open token. its the equivalent of me getting control of everything around your deed on freedom just by paying 1s a day.

 

 

This is the problem though, if you haven't played on a PvP server you dont know how harmful ###### like this is, and no matter how much we explain it you still wont get the full picture.

 

Let me put it this way, you only need 16 deeds to block off anyone from doing anything on the entirety of chaos with clever tower placement. Size don't matter, could do 16 s5's.

Thats perfectly possible in freedom, with 1s a day you can drop several deeds to block someone, probably you can achieve the same with way less money too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to say a few things:

 

Did you all try to change Epic this much before you decided to come to Chaos and change the way it is? if no then I guess Epic was perfect to you guys and you should go back and let Chaos be,

 

On Epic is it done like this?(with the drains) if the answer is yes, then just go back to the server that does things the was you like it and let Chaos be.

 

I just don't get why we get people from another server, that the rule are different, the game play is different, and the skill gain is different, think they can come over and change every thing. 

 

And what makes it sad is that most of the things that are said by them are put through because they get their entire kingdom to agree and complain about it enough that it goes through. Then people that did not want the change leave and then they are winning.

 

I know this has no part in being in this thread but I am just tired of seeing good people say they want to leave this game because of changes that not every one agreed on. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have implemented a different drain mechanic on Desolation V4 that we will be trying out. Hopefully it will reveal some interesting things that are useful here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, EvaDaly said:

I just want to say a few things:

 

Did you all try to change Epic this much before you decided to come to Chaos and change the way it is? if no then I guess Epic was perfect to you guys and you should go back and let Chaos be,

 

On Epic is it done like this?(with the drains) if the answer is yes, then just go back to the server that does things the was you like it and let Chaos be.

 

I just don't get why we get people from another server, that the rule are different, the game play is different, and the skill gain is different, think they can come over and change every thing. 

 

And what makes it sad is that most of the things that are said by them are put through because they get their entire kingdom to agree and complain about it enough that it goes through. Then people that did not want the change leave and then they are winning.

 

I know this has no part in being in this thread but I am just tired of seeing good people say they want to leave this game because of changes that not every one agreed on. 

 

Epic had no reason for this change as people never did the whole wardeed thing seriously.

 

No

 

How the other server is does not affect the server we play on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do people keep bringing up epic? Are people not allowed to make suggestions in the suggestion forum anymore?

 

This is a balance suggestion to prevent situations where deeds can be held indefinitely with very minimal investment (1s 20c a day from what i've been told) which can be split between several kingdom members easily.

Can you please argue against this balance suggestion instead of bringing up other pointless things? Thanks.

 

I even bolded the part that you should be focusing on. No more shitposting, please.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 for this suggestion

 

I've always been part of the smaller groups in pvp, and theres one thing I always say: "if we need to keep the land% for our kingdom, we can just drop a deed to keep the territory, nobody can outraid my wallet"

 

Even for someone who doesn't enjoy capping towers, destroying deeds,  removing land etc, its pretty easy to see that this isn't the way it should work and you shouldn't be able to hold endless amounts of land because you're willing to shell out the rl cash for x amount of deeds. I just wish there was a way to differentiate between war deeds/land loss prevention deeds and actual deeds that players live in, that way land grabbing deeds could be penalized and main deeds can't be disbanded(it should take constant dedication and siege to make people leave their main area, not just a drain mechanic). Maybe a protection (drain limit and no disband) on capitals, while any other deed is considered fair game for drain disbands?

 

just the thoughts of a guy not currently playing chaos 

 

edit: i voted yes, but would like to see capitals protected so I posted my thoughts

Edited by platinumteef

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK then why have we had deeds and kingdoms go away if it is this easy to keep them? if it is so easy then we should still have all the deeds because 1s 20c is so easy to get in this game. we should never have deeds dispand.

 

am i right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The argument may aswell be "do you play on WU? yes, go there then"
 

Edited by Mclovin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

+1 for this suggestion

 

I've always been part of the smaller groups in pvp, and theres one thing I always say: "if we need to keep the land% for our kingdom, we can just drop a deed to keep the territory, nobody can outraid my wallet"

 

Even for someone who doesn't enjoy capping towers, destroying deeds,  removing land etc, its pretty easy to see that this isn't the way it should work and you shouldn't be able to hold endless amounts of land because you're willing to shell out the rl cash for x amount of deeds. I just wish there was a way to differentiate between war deeds/land loss prevention deeds and actual deeds that players live in, that way land grabbing deeds could be penalized and main deeds can't be disbanded(it should take constant dedication and siege to make people leave their main area, not just a drain mechanic). Maybe a protection (drain limit and no disband) on capitals, while any other deed is considered fair game for drain disbands?

 

just the thoughts of a guy not currently playing chaos 

 

edit: i voted yes, but would like to see capitals protected so I posted my thoughts


I think capitals should just remain how they are, there shouldnt be no way it can't be disbanded tho. But I agree, all deeds but the capital should have a change to how they drain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, EvaDaly said:

OK then why have we had deeds and kingdoms go away if it is this easy to keep them? if it is so easy then we should still have all the deeds because 1s 20c is so easy to get in this game. we should never have deeds dispand.

 

am i right

 

Well, the answer is simple. You had people who did not know it was this easy to abuse.

 

Same reason why MR doesn't do anything when it has opposition, they dont know what to do.

Edited by Propheteer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Mclovin said:


I think capitals should just remain how they are, there shouldnt be no way it can't be disbanded tho. But I agree, all deeds but the capital should have a change to how they drain

 

yeah now that i think about it, it definitely should be disbandable, I just can't formulate any ideas on how to handle the capital but it should definitely be a bit more resistant to the disbanding/ compounding drains

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean if we were looking for easy gains we'd just show up to a deed and sit in the cave playing flash games until a rare boat is transfered

Edited by Mclovin
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't agree with auto disband ideas, it just seems wrong and encourages actions that look for ways to get past raiding to get the drains.  Like a crappy alt that can even be prem and 70fs to bypass any restrictions that jumps past walls or something to get stuck in token and drain and no one cares about suiciding it or losing the money because deeds gonna pop

 

I wasn't really aware that it capped out I think, because older in Epic I remember people bragging about how much silver they were getting from LoP deeds with the constant steady drains

I'm +1/-1 on it, not really sure.  My "worst" experience with being raided would be Tideland, it managed to get to a 5th drain raid but it was also enough time to get enough people to trap and wipe out the raid force which ended the raiding, deed was fully repaired and improved, drain counter resets.  I mostly feel like this wouldn't affect a legit capital or legit real deeds, but I also feel that starting up kingdoms/deeds would suffer as this could potentially encourage some people/groups to grief for more money or something

 

My issue that I always have is two part here.  One, we have no way to distinguish the player casually paying for whatever is necessary like premium and upkeep, and the moneybags buying 10 accounts or throwing a gold into every deed they ever planted.  Two, we have no actual legit non-abusable way to distinguish the difference between a deed that is someones home and a deed that's dropped to lock in land control that serves literally no other purpose and wasn't even needed until tower conquering came into the game

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this