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Zekezor

Exponential deed draining

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56 members have voted

  1. 1. Should deed drain cap be removed?



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My suggestion is simple.

The mechanic "Every time a deed is drained, the drained amount will increase by 50%." doesn't stop increasing after 10 drains.

That's all.

 

edit: Excludes epics homeservers. aka the "newbie/casual pvp servers"

Edited by Zekezor

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+1

 

It does take forever to disband a deed. This stops the tediousness of draining a deed as it will be quicker to disband a deed that is not defended well enough to stop drains and prevents the whole keep dumping in money as if you want to do that, it will get very expensive to do so.

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I'd really love to hear why you'd vote no for this.

 

If you can drain a deed 5+ times, there is no reason you should be capped, it should be disbanded even.

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If you cared about the deed, you would have tried to stop it before the 5th time, so I don't see why it stops increasing.

 

+1

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Ya mean the suggestion by Xallo (JK Chaos) in the past?

I was against it becouse I feelt bad for the non-vets on JKH/MRH/BLH and thus was against it. (All of which were targets for me)

Since epic and home server raiding is no longer a thing, thats no longer a concern.

 

On 01/08/2015 at 0:41 PM, Zekezor said:

5x drain cap - Na, i know plenty of epic "freedom-style" deeds that would suffer massively from this (not from my own kingdom) and i'd like to let newbies have a chance.

Thread reply:

Thank you for reminding me of epic, I'll make a minor adjustment to my suggestion where home servers are excluded from this change. :)

Edited by Pandalet
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Ah if you don't care about trying to drain it more than 5x then why ask for changes to suit your lazy lifestyle?

 

9 hours ago, Xallo said:

If you cared about the deed, you would have tried to stop it before the 5th time, so I don't see why it stops increasing.

 

+1

 

-1 stop asking for changes to make raiding easier for yourself

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2 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

Ah if you don't care about trying to drain it more than 5x then why ask for changes to suit your lazy lifestyle?

 

 

-1 stop asking for changes to make raiding easier for yourself

 

Because as it stands, we could drain any deed daily for a month solid and regardless of that, you'll be able to keep it going and never ever lose it by just keeping upkeep filled, which is really quite a lot easier than the effort it takes to siege a deed and pummel it into the ground.

Based on that, why would we keep draining something daily we know is being fed a ton of upkeep simply for this reason stated above? There really is nothing you can do to remove a deed that the owners don't want removed. The max drain amount drained daily isn't enough to make it even remotely difficult.

 

You know it's unbalanced, we know its unbalanced, everyone knows. Let's not dance around another good suggestion just because it would harm you if put in, that's not anyone elses problem but your own if you aren't able to stop a continous drain on a deed.

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-1  If the idea is to disband deeds faster, you guys should get together, plan, and then ask for some new mechanic for it.

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1 hour ago, Rathgar said:

-1  If the idea is to disband deeds faster, you guys should get together, plan, and then ask for some new mechanic for it.

 

That's exactly what this thread is hoping to achieve. You're not making any sense?

 

Also, and please don't take this personally, but if judging by your signature you are playing on freedom, non PvP why does this suggestion concern you at all? If this change does or does not get implemented it wouldn't effect you in any way, either way, so why vote? That would be like me voting for the next head of government in Kazakhstan.

Edited by Madt

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35 minutes ago, Madt said:

 

That's exactly what this thread is hoping to achieve. You're not making any sense?

 

Also, and please don't take this personally, but if judging by your signature you are playing on freedom, non PvP why does this suggestion concern you at all? If this change does or does not get implemented it wouldn't effect you in any way, either way, so why vote? That would be like me voting for the next head of government in Kazakhstan.

and if kazakhstan held their elections in your country, you would probably express your opinion.

And this is my opinion, I understand that the PvP people want the chance to completely uproot a settlement, but maybe the transfer of money is not the way to go around it.  There are a million other ways to make this possible, so I was asking, why dont you people who are really involved, think of other possible ways to achieve this uproot-deed mechanic in a way that is not dependant to upkeep funds.  Maybe a way that is more involved in the game itself, and does not rely on how much money is being poured into a deed.

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47 minutes ago, Rathgar said:

and if kazakhstan held their elections in your country, you would probably express your opinion.

And this is my opinion, I understand that the PvP people want the chance to completely uproot a settlement, but maybe the transfer of money is not the way to go around it.  There are a million other ways to make this possible, so I was asking, why dont you people who are really involved, think of other possible ways to achieve this uproot-deed mechanic in a way that is not dependant to upkeep funds.  Maybe a way that is more involved in the game itself, and does not rely on how much money is being poured into a deed.

Mechanics such as "autodisband after X drains" etc is a possibility discussed in the past.

However I think defenders should get the option of trying to hold on to their deed if they desire to, thus i disagree with the autodisband mechanic.

Contineous attacks over a very long period of time is exhausting and as such the rewards for doing so should scale.

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I agree that "autodisband after X drains"  is a rather flat variable, for how convulted wurm is.  Maybe a proper siegue and capture mechanic. If the invaders can hold the deed captive for X ammount of time, then it counts as a capture. Maybe a deed can get disbanded after a certain ammount of captures.   That number could depend on the age of deed, or the number of settlements in the alliance.

 

This is just brainstorming, Im not saying that this should be the specific suggestion.  What I do know is that just asking to get payed more from raiding doesnt feel like a sound game mechanic.   Maybe provide bonuses to siegue equipments for the players involved in a capture.  Like I said, there are a million things to make the experience better, getting stuck on getting more coins as a fix is a bit redundant.

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This isn't about the drain money, nobody really cares about that.

 

This is about suggesting continuously increasing drains making it far too expensive to keep a deed that's being drained every day going. As it currently stands, its pretty cheap and easy to keep a deed going even if your enemies were to drain the deed every day without fail for 2 solid weeks. And the amount of effort, planning and work you'd need to pull off raiding a deed every day like clockwork for that amount of time is unthinkable in comparison to the small cost the deed owners need to put into upkeep to make all your work and sieging for nothing.

Edited by Madt
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38 minutes ago, Rathgar said:

I agree that "autodisband after X drains"  is a rather flat variable, for how convulted wurm is.  Maybe a proper siegue and capture mechanic. If the invaders can hold the deed captive for X ammount of time, then it counts as a capture. Maybe a deed can get disbanded after a certain ammount of captures.   That number could depend on the age of deed, or the number of settlements in the alliance.

 

This is just brainstorming, Im not saying that this should be the specific suggestion.  What I do know is that just asking to get payed more from raiding doesnt feel like a sound game mechanic.   Maybe provide bonuses to siegue equipments for the players involved in a capture.  Like I said, there are a million things to make the experience better, getting stuck on getting more coins as a fix is a bit redundant.

 

you can keep thinking of these grand cool features that people have suggested in the past, but you need to realize that it took developers six months to disable information minister.

 

do you really think they can rework deed draining at any reasonable pace other than a simple change like this?

 

 

currently the problem is i can drop a deed, keep all the towers in my area, constantly make minedoors or w/e and because of its size the most you can get is barely over 1s20c. I can get more than that a day just hunting, you will never disband my deed, i don't care what you do to it simply because of how cheap it is to maintain. Plus i can add upkeep to it from across the map and the deed having rolling drain bonus doesn't prevent this either.

 

The reason drain money is brought up is because it is the existing mechanic, thus the least time to change.

Edited by Propheteer
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We cannot have a serious pvp server without this change, how can you balance a game with land raiding around people with big wallets?  There needs to be no cap on max drains so people can't just put deeds into minimum drain mode and only pay a small fee to keep the deed forever hell we got a guy who buys gold coins just because hes bored imagine if he didn't want you to disband his deed or a specific and drops 5 gold into it which is completely possible currently.
 

So ya lets just keep wurm the joke of the pvp gaming world loosing another 42% of our premium players in the next year again like the last 12 months because no one wants to actually fix the game and just stay in lala land and never try and move forward to a functional game because spending enough real life money to never let a deed disband with daily active raids is totally a balanced mechanic that we want to keep in wurm. How can you say you just need to get organized there is no way to organize around that other than to find an exploit because there is no way to disband a deed if the person is willing to continue paying for it and this is a pvp server with land control as a for and front feature and people can just totally ignore those mechanics with enough real life money.

 

Just 1 of wurms many issues, but come on stop playing stupid there is not 1 good reason some one could give to not trying to fix this maybe if the current idea isn't how you would fix suggest another way to fix it but you cannot deny this isn't an issue and if you do you just want wurm to die a nice slow death and never change a single thing because your in a comfort zone.

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8 minutes ago, Darklords said:

We cannot have a serious pvp server without this change, how can you balance a game with land raiding around people with big wallets?  There needs to be no cap on max drains so people can't just put deeds into minimum drain mode and only pay a small fee to keep the deed forever hell we got a guy who buys gold coins just because hes bored imagine if he didn't want you to disband his deed or a specific and drops 5 gold into it which is completely possible currently.

 

Can attest, we have a guy who spent 250e on wurm silver for his deed within an hour of returning to the game.

 

Good luck disbanding his deed with your 1s drains l0l

 

 

(and i actually love to see what MR would say when they realize they would have to drain his deed every day for about two months to even have an impact without the owner putting in any money.)

Edited by Propheteer

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doublepost madman

 

U91LHw.png

 

as he says

 

11:53 AM - xxx: that 80 euros is enough to pay some dev at codeclub to take the 5 seconds to code that change

 

Edited by Propheteer
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Loving the "You only want this because it suits your kingdom" comment - in a few months time the tide will turn and the OP will be defending and you'll be loving this update.

Let's face it, the only reason Chaos feels a bit fresh atm is because of the change of territory, all kingdoms should lose deeds and win deeds, keeps the campaign and competetion fresh.

I'm all for pvp and mechanics promoting pvp & allowing kingdoms of all sizes to be able to remove deeds, not have a big kingdom with big funds keep pouring in minimum amount daily to stop a disband.

Anybody against this should go back to freedom, a better settting for them. [ as some who can't take true pvp already have]

  Capitals should probably be left the same

Edited by Mclovin
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We spoke to the wurm team a year ago about having a new-style last drain system where the defenders get to chose the time and the attackers mount an attack for that time - if attackers drain the deed disbands, if the defenders Defend it resets to 0, we suggested 5 being the last drain window. Nothing seems to be in the works for it atm but something like a code-change this simple is a better request @Rathgar

Edited by Mclovin
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56 minutes ago, Darklords said:

We cannot have a serious pvp server without this change, how can you balance a game with land raiding around people with big wallets? 

 

Coming from the same crowd that spends a grand on buying characters and gear?

 

If someone wants to keep dumping money into a deed that is there prerogative, stop making up reasons for changes solely to benefit your current playstyle,

 

I am surprised you have not asked for a button to push when you approach a deed to simply disband it to save you all the bother of raiding a deed.

 

With all these changes you want, eventually chaos will end up like epic with no one who wants to play anymore. Of coarse by that point you will complain that pvp needs to change to make people want to come back.

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5 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

Coming from the same crowd that spends a grand on buying characters and gear?

 

If someone wants to keep dumping money into a deed that is there prerogative, stop making up reasons for changes solely to benefit your current playstyle,

 

I am surprised you have not asked for a button to push when you approach a deed to simply disband it to save you all the bother of raiding a deed.

 

With all these changes you want, eventually chaos will end up like epic with no one who wants to play anymore. Of coarse by that point you will complain that pvp needs to change to make people want to come back.

 

Didn't a lot of MR buy accounts? Rozare, Zerobyte, Red, GWM/Mobius, Yurik?, Janekpolazcek, you know just off the top of my head.

 

It is their prerogative, but, it shouldn't be an I win button. I don't think it benefits our playstyle, i just think its a balance issue. You should not be able to keep a deed on the server and the benefits it brings if you aren't willing to defend it, but you are willing to spend a euro a day to stop it from disbanding.

 

A bit of an exaggeration.

 

I'm sure it will, and i'm certain Epic died because of our suggestions and has absolutely nothing to do with the fact it was left broken and in shambles without bugfixes or changes for years.

 

 

You just seem triggered that you have no real counterargument as to why this shouldn't be in the game other than the fact you are currently benefiting from it, just like so many other things. People like you are the reason this games pvp balance is terrible. "Oh we cant nerf that, im still abusing it. REEEEEEEEEEEEE"

Edited by Propheteer
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3 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

Coming from the same crowd that spends a grand on buying characters and gear?

 

If someone wants to keep dumping money into a deed that is there prerogative, stop making up reasons for changes solely to benefit your current playstyle,

 

I am surprised you have not asked for a button to push when you approach a deed to simply disband it to save you all the bother of raiding a deed.

 

With all these changes you want, eventually chaos will end up like epic with no one who wants to play anymore. Of coarse by that point you will complain that pvp needs to change to make people want to come back.

can you not come up with more creative shitposting? it's getting stale with the same few people saying the same thing over and over

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35 minutes ago, Mclovin said:

We spoke to the wurm team a year ago about having a new-style last drain system where the defenders get to chose the time and the attackers mount an attack for that time - if attackers drain the deed disbands, if the defenders Defend it resets to 0, we suggested 5 being the last drain window. Nothing seems to be in the works for it atm but something like a code-change this simple is a better request @Rathgar

 

I like this idea, pretty fair and balanced out. Gives equal opportunities to both sides.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JakeRivers said:

 

Coming from the same crowd that spends a grand on buying characters and gear?

 

If someone wants to keep dumping money into a deed that is there prerogative, stop making up reasons for changes solely to benefit your current playstyle,

 

I am surprised you have not asked for a button to push when you approach a deed to simply disband it to save you all the bother of raiding a deed.

 

With all these changes you want, eventually chaos will end up like epic with no one who wants to play anymore. Of coarse by that point you will complain that pvp needs to change to make people want to come back.

 

Your turning this into a personal issue once again instead of a game balance issue, how about you give some constructive feedback instead of just omg your trying to kill chaos bs you only seem to be able to respond with.  Why should it be their prerogative on a pvp server to never let a deed disband without defending it 1 time?  Goto freedom if you don't want anyone to mess with your deed this is a land control pvp server which relies on the draining mechanic to remove deeds an enemy is no longer willing to defend.  Except you know that mechanic is currently not working as intended before you had to goto your token to put money in it, now after the permissions update you can just do it anywhere off your body which offset the balance now you can put money into the token from anywhere on the map and never allow a deed to disband the enemy can do nothing to try and stop you while your mayor sits at any single one of your other deeds safe and sound with full silver deposit rights which is obviously not how wurm is intended to play out otherwise draining deed's wouldn't even exist in the first place. It's silly it ends the bonus after 5 drains if we can drain your deed 8 times why can't get an increasing bonus if your abandoning the deed and can't hold us back for 1 day to reset the window there is no reason and that's why you can only use fear mongering to respond.

 

I am sure there are other ways to achieve the same thing and that's why we are here discussing it but please just take the spite bs away and let the people who only want to see wurm grow discuss things like real men instead of scared little shakeshivers...

Edited by Darklords

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